IS ENGLAND'S LOSS AN INDICTMENT OF THE EPL?????

[Godfather]

Or is it still the best league in the universe???????????????

This has nothing to do with the EPL. English players are talented....but they have no identity.

Give this a rest already. No they are not.

The English should go back and think hard about their fraudulent over hyping of their players. Don't get me wrong, as some English players are very good, but clearly not one is world class. Rooney showed me that he is not one of the greats of the game. Even less so for Gerrard, never mind Lampard. Finally, I personally loathe louts like John Terry, who couldn't hold a candle to the legacy that was Bobby Moore.

Guys, don't be suckers for the illusion of many European football leagues. You cannot judge a player properly based on what he does at certain clubs. Barcelona, yes. Chelsea, no. Tight tactical and coaching schemes favor players who run, listen, and memorize...but who get into big trouble when they meet talent unleashed.

Today's match was instructive. England don't have anywhere close to what Germany has in talent.

Cheers, Mate

The best performing players in this tournament don`t play in the EPL..

KPOM

[rutgers]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... nal-squads


At this world cup

139 players play at the EPL

94 at Germany

93 in Italy

74 in Spain

12 in Scotland.

EPL by far the popular choice of International players.

[YUJAM]

You still don't get it. How many EPL players are left in the tourney?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... nal-squads


At this world cup

139 players play at the EPL

94 at Germany

93 in Italy

74 in Spain

12 in Scotland.

EPL by far the popular choice of International players.

[Killa Adjei]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... nal-squads


At this world cup

139 players play at the EPL

94 at Germany

93 in Italy

74 in Spain

12 in Scotland.

EPL by far the popular choice of International players.

So what, the best performing players at this world cup aren`t playing in the EPL..

[Dammy]

The English league is dominated by foreigners like wise Inter MIlan, the European champions do not have any regular italian player in the team. Sothe result was there for everyone to see as Italy crashed out of the WC at the group stages. Donot use the standard of domestic leagues to rate National teams.

[wanaj0]

Which big picture???

Italy went home in the first round? Where do their players play? Serie A must be SUPER USELESS.

What of France? Lique 1 must be USELESS.

I mean why make ridiculous statement just to back up a point not based on stats.

CR was in the EPL and he shone like stars.

What seems the problem with the EPL is the physically demanding nature of the league that makes players to be FULLY burnt out by summer! They need to reduce the number of matches played by there.

Look at the bigger picture. If you look up and down the league, they play a less skilled and more power based type of game that is not good for the game. I have said this over and over again. Forget Manure and Co, look at the whole league.

Players like Forlan are excelling here yet they were written off as busts in the EPL. When the guy went to a league that encouraged the skill players to excel, he played excellently

Most of the teams with a heavy does of EPL players are out of the tournament

Of course it is an indictment. Bunch of no skill plodders who do not have skill or verve.. Compare the much hyped Lampard and Gerrard to Ozil, Podolski and Schweinsteiger..The EPL does not encourage skill. How many EPL players are left in the tourney?

Yujam, please tell me you are joking, I guess, the French league and Italian league that left first round should be sole off to who knows..
Its not at all related if nothing else, it simply states that their are too many foreigners in the Epl and very little of English players at the top teams.

[shakakaka]

You still don't get it. How many EPL players are left in the tourney?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... nal-squads


At this world cup

139 players play at the EPL

94 at Germany

93 in Italy

74 in Spain

12 in Scotland.

EPL by far the popular choice of International players.

Let me rephrase, Yujam, how many skillfull EPL are left in this years WC?

[Skylolo]

Or is it still the best league in the universe???????????????

This has nothing to do with the EPL. English players are talented....but they have no identity.

Give this a rest already. No they are not.

The English should go back and think hard about their fraudulent over hyping of their players. Don't get me wrong, as some English players are very good, but clearly not one is world class. Rooney showed me that he is not one of the greats of the game. Even less so for Gerrard, never mind Lampard. Finally, I personally loathe louts like John Terry, who couldn't hold a candle to the legacy that was Bobby Moore.

Guys, don't be suckers for the illusion of many European football leagues. You cannot judge a player properly based on what he does at certain clubs. Barcelona, yes. Chelsea, no. Tight tactical and coaching schemes favor players who run, listen, and memorize...but who get into big trouble when they meet talent unleashed.

Today's match was instructive. England don't have anywhere close to what Germany has in talent.

Cheers, Mate

KPOM....

At this level you need more than the usual EPL kick and rush..just look how innefective EPL greats like Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney were in this tournament.

[green4life]

It'll be in our best interest if more of our players play in the La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga. Heck, need proof? Our best players at the world cup all play outside of the EPL.

I agree with the bulk of your comment but who are our best players at the world cup in your opinion??

Obasi. Osaze. Martins. Nsofor. Haruna. Kaita. Kalu uche.

[shakakaka]

Which big picture???

Italy went home in the first round? Where do their players play? Serie A must be SUPER USELESS.

What of France? Lique 1 must be USELESS.

I mean why make ridiculous statement just to back up a point not based on stats.

CR was in the EPL and he shone like stars.

What seems the problem with the EPL is the physically demanding nature of the league that makes players to be FULLY burnt out by summer! They need to reduce the number of matches played by there.

Look at the bigger picture. If you look up and down the league, they play a less skilled and more power based type of game that is not good for the game. I have said this over and over again. Forget Manure and Co, look at the whole league.

Players like Forlan are excelling here yet they were written off as busts in the EPL. When the guy went to a league that encouraged the skill players to excel, he played excellently

Most of the teams with a heavy does of EPL players are out of the tournament

Of course it is an indictment. Bunch of no skill plodders who do not have skill or verve.. Compare the much hyped Lampard and Gerrard to Ozil, Podolski and Schweinsteiger..The EPL does not encourage skill. How many EPL players are left in the tourney?

Yujam, please tell me you are joking, I guess, the French league and Italian league that left first round should be sole off to who knows..
Its not at all related if nothing else, it simply states that their are too many foreigners in the Epl and very little of English players at the top teams.

Majority of France's first team does not play in their own league

[wanaj0]

How many SERIE A players are left?

You still don't get it. How many EPL players are left in the tourney?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010 ... nal-squads


At this world cup

139 players play at the EPL

94 at Germany

93 in Italy

74 in Spain

12 in Scotland.

EPL by far the popular choice of International players.

[YUJAM]

The bigger picture = Top to bottom EPL teams

They play a brand of footie that is not suited for positive and skillful footie and it shows in the players. Look.. I am not here to please you or anyone. I have made this observation about EPL for a long time now

France has a very EPL centric team. Italy brought tired legs

Which big picture???

Italy went home in the first round? Where do their players play? Serie A must be SUPER USELESS.

What of France? Lique 1 must be USELESS.

I mean why make ridiculous statement just to back up a point not based on stats.

CR was in the EPL and he shone like stars.

What seems the problem with the EPL is the physically demanding nature of the league that makes players to be FULLY burnt out by summer! They need to reduce the number of matches played by there.

Look at the bigger picture. If you look up and down the league, they play a less skilled and more power based type of game that is not good for the game. I have said this over and over again. Forget Manure and Co, look at the whole league.

Players like Forlan are excelling here yet they were written off as busts in the EPL. When the guy went to a league that encouraged the skill players to excel, he played excellently

Most of the teams with a heavy does of EPL players are out of the tournament

Of course it is an indictment. Bunch of no skill plodders who do not have skill or verve.. Compare the much hyped Lampard and Gerrard to Ozil, Podolski and Schweinsteiger..The EPL does not encourage skill. How many EPL players are left in the tourney?

Yujam, please tell me you are joking, I guess, the French league and Italian league that left first round should be sole off to who knows..
Its not at all related if nothing else, it simply states that their are too many foreigners in the Epl and very little of English players at the top teams.

[wanaj0]

So for Italy it is not about their league? Show consistency!

Problem with EPL players is basically that they are burnt out by summer! This is evident in the injury crisis at the end of the season! It is such a physically demanding league. That takes nothing away from the QUALITY of the players or teams there.

The bigger picture = Top to bottom EPL teams

They play a brand of footie that is not suited for positive and skillful footie and it shows in the players. Look.. I am not here to please you or anyone. I have made this observation about EPL for a long time now

France has a very EPL centric team. Italy brought tired legs

Which big picture???

Italy went home in the first round? Where do their players play? Serie A must be SUPER USELESS.

What of France? Lique 1 must be USELESS.

I mean why make ridiculous statement just to back up a point not based on stats.

CR was in the EPL and he shone like stars.

What seems the problem with the EPL is the physically demanding nature of the league that makes players to be FULLY burnt out by summer! They need to reduce the number of matches played by there.

Look at the bigger picture. If you look up and down the league, they play a less skilled and more power based type of game that is not good for the game. I have said this over and over again. Forget Manure and Co, look at the whole league.

Players like Forlan are excelling here yet they were written off as busts in the EPL. When the guy went to a league that encouraged the skill players to excel, he played excellently

Most of the teams with a heavy does of EPL players are out of the tournament

Of course it is an indictment. Bunch of no skill plodders who do not have skill or verve.. Compare the much hyped Lampard and Gerrard to Ozil, Podolski and Schweinsteiger..The EPL does not encourage skill. How many EPL players are left in the tourney?

Yujam, please tell me you are joking, I guess, the French league and Italian league that left first round should be sole off to who knows..
Its not at all related if nothing else, it simply states that their are too many foreigners in the Epl and very little of English players at the top teams.

[okidoki]

The Ghanaians have two outfield players in the EPL. I did not count Mensah cuz he just moved from Rennes. Kingston is just a goalie who got no time. There is no undue EPL influence on that team

--Kingston --
Painstill - EPL
Mensah - EPL/France
Mensah - Udinese/S Africa
Sarpei - Bundesliga

Boateng -- EPL
Anan - Norway
Asamoah - Italy
Inkoom - Italy/Spain

Gyan - France
Ayew - France

I think the EPL is not nearly as good as we think it is. It makes us overrate players because we see them week in week out. The style of football is negative, unimaginative and uncreative. The officiating (allowing a very physical game to bully 'creativity') has killed creativity and flair and obviously, the style of officiating is very different at the International level. What an English pundit will call a 'good tackle' equates a booking at the world cup.

IMO, I think the EPL is even killing the Nigerian team. Is it any surprise that since our players have started flocking there, we've been in decline? It'll be in our best interest if more of our players play in the La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga. Heck, need proof? Our best players at the world cup all play outside of the EPL.

And where are the Ghanaian players playing again? The case of SE is more complicated than we take it, let us answer the question how many of our players are playing at the top even in the EPL. The only player that sees consistent action is not in the team, the rest have spent the whole season keeping the bench warm for their colleagues. What is the average playing time of our players in the EPL? These are the key questions no one is addressing.
We picked a certain Lukman to lead our midfield, if i may ask what was his playing record this season?, Shittu who spent the whole season on the bench was one of our best players, what about Yobo, how many matches did he play before this tournament. Funny how we are shouting and hailing Kanu the messiah , but the same Kanu if we sum all his playing time this year, it could hardly add up to 3 matches.
These are the questions we need to ask, not just jumping on the bandwagon of those who shout EPL is bad.

Yujam you quickly drew up a starters list for Ghana do same for Nigeria and the other African countries and tell me how Epl helped them get beaten. You make me luagh, we had only 3 players from the Epl playing regularly, and for me Etuhu was the only midfielder we had. Yobo has been a bust and even if Gudiola signs him, he'll still be a bust. Yakubu, no comments.
Nigeria paraded very few so called Epl players, Civ the same thing and Cameroon, Algeria apart from Belhadje who else.

People leave what they ought to be discussing and start talking things that have very little meaning. We had very bad preparation, some wrong personnel and Coaches that had very little understanding of our football culture.

Epl has nothing what so ever to do with why Ghana is the only African team in the Quarters. The African teams paraded very few Epl teams in their first eleven yet we were disgraced.

[wanaj0]

Majority play in the EPL?????

Which big picture???

Italy went home in the first round? Where do their players play? Serie A must be SUPER USELESS.

What of France? Lique 1 must be USELESS.

I mean why make ridiculous statement just to back up a point not based on stats.

CR was in the EPL and he shone like stars.

What seems the problem with the EPL is the physically demanding nature of the league that makes players to be FULLY burnt out by summer! They need to reduce the number of matches played by there.

Look at the bigger picture. If you look up and down the league, they play a less skilled and more power based type of game that is not good for the game. I have said this over and over again. Forget Manure and Co, look at the whole league.

Players like Forlan are excelling here yet they were written off as busts in the EPL. When the guy went to a league that encouraged the skill players to excel, he played excellently

Most of the teams with a heavy does of EPL players are out of the tournament

Of course it is an indictment. Bunch of no skill plodders who do not have skill or verve.. Compare the much hyped Lampard and Gerrard to Ozil, Podolski and Schweinsteiger..The EPL does not encourage skill. How many EPL players are left in the tourney?

Yujam, please tell me you are joking, I guess, the French league and Italian league that left first round should be sole off to who knows..
Its not at all related if nothing else, it simply states that their are too many foreigners in the Epl and very little of English players at the top teams.

Majority of France's first team does not play in their own league

[YUJAM]

I have talked about other factors we should be focusing on. But the fact that EPL is turning our players into a bunch of robotic and unskilled players is a fact

The players that are excelling in this tourney are not from the EPL.

The Ghanaians have two outfield players in the EPL. I did not count Mensah cuz he just moved from Rennes. Kingston is just a goalie who got no time. There is no undue EPL influence on that team

--Kingston --
Painstill - EPL
Mensah - EPL/France
Mensah - Udinese/S Africa
Sarpei - Bundesliga

Boateng -- EPL
Anan - Norway
Asamoah - Italy
Inkoom - Italy/Spain

Gyan - France
Ayew - France

I think the EPL is not nearly as good as we think it is. It makes us overrate players because we see them week in week out. The style of football is negative, unimaginative and uncreative. The officiating (allowing a very physical game to bully 'creativity') has killed creativity and flair and obviously, the style of officiating is very different at the International level. What an English pundit will call a 'good tackle' equates a booking at the world cup.

IMO, I think the EPL is even killing the Nigerian team. Is it any surprise that since our players have started flocking there, we've been in decline? It'll be in our best interest if more of our players play in the La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga. Heck, need proof? Our best players at the world cup all play outside of the EPL.

And where are the Ghanaian players playing again? The case of SE is more complicated than we take it, let us answer the question how many of our players are playing at the top even in the EPL. The only player that sees consistent action is not in the team, the rest have spent the whole season keeping the bench warm for their colleagues. What is the average playing time of our players in the EPL? These are the key questions no one is addressing.
We picked a certain Lukman to lead our midfield, if i may ask what was his playing record this season?, Shittu who spent the whole season on the bench was one of our best players, what about Yobo, how many matches did he play before this tournament. Funny how we are shouting and hailing Kanu the messiah , but the same Kanu if we sum all his playing time this year, it could hardly add up to 3 matches.
These are the questions we need to ask, not just jumping on the bandwagon of those who shout EPL is bad.

Yujam you quickly drew up a starters list for Ghana do same for Nigeria and the other African countries and tell me how Epl helped them get beaten. You make me luagh, we had only 3 players from the Epl playing regularly, and for me Etuhu was the only midfielder we had. Yobo has been a bust and even if Gudiola signs him, he'll still be a bust. Yakubu, no comments.
Nigeria paraded very few so called Epl players, Civ the same thing and Cameroon, Algeria apart from Belhadje who else.

People leave what they ought to be discussing and start talking things that have very little meaning. We had very bad preparation, some wrong personnel and Coaches that had very little understanding of our football culture.

Epl has nothing what so ever to do with why Ghana is the only African team in the Quarters. The African teams paraded very few Epl teams in their first eleven yet we were disgraced.

[tolahs]

The English have a style that is least transferable to the international arena - hard tackles and longballs with a foul threshold bordering on Rugby - there's that delusion which claims passion is an 'English_only_emotion' bottled and to be used when only they take to the field.
Last WC.06 - the Mexican vs Argentina was full of passion, might see similar tonight. Ghana vs USA last night - same energy!!!
The EPL,like Serie A and even with Messi/La Liga goes beyond nationality....EPL's the best marketed league on the planet right now - there's a reason why the Serie A are looking into their marketing techniques, there's a reason why Real Madrid like the marketability Becks brought with him, especially with the Asian market!!

[Chingo Bling]

The Ghanaians have two outfield players in the EPL. I did not count Mensah cuz he just moved from Rennes. Kingston is just a goalie who got no time. There is no undue EPL influence on that team

--Kingston --
Painstill - EPL
Mensah - EPL/France
Mensah - Udinese/S Africa
Sarpei - Bundesliga

Boateng -- EPL
Anan - Norway
Asamoah - Italy
Inkoom - Italy/Spain

Gyan - France
Ayew - France

I think the EPL is not nearly as good as we think it is. It makes us overrate players because we see them week in week out. The style of football is negative, unimaginative and uncreative. The officiating (allowing a very physical game to bully 'creativity') has killed creativity and flair and obviously, the style of officiating is very different at the International level. What an English pundit will call a 'good tackle' equates a booking at the world cup.

IMO, I think the EPL is even killing the Nigerian team. Is it any surprise that since our players have started flocking there, we've been in decline? It'll be in our best interest if more of our players play in the La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga. Heck, need proof? Our best players at the world cup all play outside of the EPL.

And where are the Ghanaian players playing again? The case of SE is more complicated than we take it, let us answer the question how many of our players are playing at the top even in the EPL. The only player that sees consistent action is not in the team, the rest have spent the whole season keeping the bench warm for their colleagues. What is the average playing time of our players in the EPL? These are the key questions no one is addressing.
We picked a certain Lukman to lead our midfield, if i may ask what was his playing record this season?, Shittu who spent the whole season on the bench was one of our best players, what about Yobo, how many matches did he play before this tournament. Funny how we are shouting and hailing Kanu the messiah , but the same Kanu if we sum all his playing time this year, it could hardly add up to 3 matches.
These are the questions we need to ask, not just jumping on the bandwagon of those who shout EPL is bad.

Yujam you quickly drew up a starters list for Ghana do same for Nigeria and the other African countries and tell me how Epl helped them get beaten. You make me luagh, we had only 3 players from the Epl playing regularly, and for me Etuhu was the only midfielder we had. Yobo has been a bust and even if Gudiola signs him, he'll still be a bust. Yakubu, no comments.
Nigeria paraded very few so called Epl players, Civ the same thing and Cameroon, Algeria apart from Belhadje who else.

People leave what they ought to be discussing and start talking things that have very little meaning. We had very bad preparation, some wrong personnel and Coaches that had very little understanding of our football culture.

Epl has nothing what so ever to do with why Ghana is the only African team in the Quarters. The African teams paraded very few Epl teams in their first eleven yet we were disgraced.

Exactly!

This thread is so ridiculous its funny!
England basically have the same problem as naija! Too many untouchable players in the squad!
anyone can guess 8 England players that will definitely start (basically the same players since 2004). This obviously leads to lack of competition and new blood

[oloye]

Yes you rushed in to draw a list, now look at the performance of Boateng and Panstsil can you compare them to that of our players? These guys had regular time on the field. Yes Ayew plays in the french league, actually in the lower league, but the key he had regular playing time. If Italian league was all that , how come they brought that shambolic of team to the WC, funny they could not make it out of their group and we want to debate on this shenanigan about the standard of leagues and its effect on our players. I mean Italy brought players like Gilardino, Jaquinta, great exponents of Italian football eh! My friend you may not like the EPL, but do not let sentiments becloud your good sense of football analysis.

The problem with England remains the quality of their players, they simply do not have any. I did my coaching course in England i was suprised by the quality of the players i saw at the youth level, and i could help but ask where do all these skills go when these players grow up.

To answer this question look no further, a certain Juninho and Emerson once played for middlesborough , they had a torrid time under an english coach especially Emerson.

The Ghanaians have two outfield players in the EPL. I did not count Mensah cuz he just moved from Rennes. Kingston is just a goalie who got no time. There is no undue EPL influence on that team

--Kingston --
Painstill - EPL
Mensah - EPL/France
Mensah - Udinese/S Africa
Sarpei - Bundesliga

Boateng -- EPL
Anan - Norway
Asamoah - Italy
Inkoom - Italy/Spain

Gyan - France
Ayew - France

I think the EPL is not nearly as good as we think it is. It makes us overrate players because we see them week in week out. The style of football is negative, unimaginative and uncreative. The officiating (allowing a very physical game to bully 'creativity') has killed creativity and flair and obviously, the style of officiating is very different at the International level. What an English pundit will call a 'good tackle' equates a booking at the world cup.

IMO, I think the EPL is even killing the Nigerian team. Is it any surprise that since our players have started flocking there, we've been in decline? It'll be in our best interest if more of our players play in the La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga. Heck, need proof? Our best players at the world cup all play outside of the EPL.

And where are the Ghanaian players playing again? The case of SE is more complicated than we take it, let us answer the question how many of our players are playing at the top even in the EPL. The only player that sees consistent action is not in the team, the rest have spent the whole season keeping the bench warm for their colleagues. What is the average playing time of our players in the EPL? These are the key questions no one is addressing.
We picked a certain Lukman to lead our midfield, if i may ask what was his playing record this season?, Shittu who spent the whole season on the bench was one of our best players, what about Yobo, how many matches did he play before this tournament. Funny how we are shouting and hailing Kanu the messiah , but the same Kanu if we sum all his playing time this year, it could hardly add up to 3 matches.
These are the questions we need to ask, not just jumping on the bandwagon of those who shout EPL is bad.

[TD]

Or is it still the best league in the universe???????????????

This has nothing to do with the EPL. English players are talented....but they have no identity.

Give this a rest already. No they are not.

The English should go back and think hard about their fraudulent over hyping of their players. Don't get me wrong, as some English players are very good, but clearly not one is world class. Rooney showed me that he is not one of the greats of the game. Even less so for Gerrard, never mind Lampard. Finally, I personally loathe louts like John Terry, who couldn't hold a candle to the legacy that was Bobby Moore.

Guys, don't be suckers for the illusion of many European football leagues. You cannot judge a player properly based on what he does at certain clubs. Barcelona, yes. Chelsea, no. Tight tactical and coaching schemes favor players who run, listen, and memorize...but who get into big trouble when they meet talent unleashed.

Today's match was instructive. England don't have anywhere close to what Germany has in talent.

Cheers, Mate

Dude, just because of one lopsided outcome, then the Germans are "talented" and the English not ? Please.

Germany played a good team game and the English did not. End of story. Germany has one really, really good player -Ozil and perhaps Muller is halfway decent, and on the other side, Steven Gerrard is indeed a world class player. You can judge a player by what he has CONSISTENTLY done over years at different levels of the game. If we were to apply your logic to it's logical extent, then players like Didier Drogba and Samuel Eto'o who has almost always underachieved in a Cameroonian shirt can not be classified as world-class either (which they clearly are).

As an aside, what really is Fabio Capello thinking? There is nothing in this English team that a second rate English coach could not have done. Gareth "can't make an accurate forward pass/can't control the ball/can't defend" Barry, Emile Heskey, James Milner in place of Manchester City's Andy Johnson? God!
Gareth Barry while Michael Carrick was on the bench ?. Probably wouldn't have mattered, but what kind of coach are you when you makie such decisions?

[Riche007]

I suppose the fact that Spain has never won the WC means Spain has the worst league in the world, not to mention Brasil who have won the WC 5 times, they must have the best league in the world. EPL is different, look at the teams leading in the EPL how many england players do they have. Common guys let us look deep before we come up with these comparisons. You can only make these comparisons at club level.

...at least someone with common sense.

[mate]

Dude, just because of one lopsided outcome, then the Germans are "talented" and the English not ? Please.

One outcome? Nope. I watched all of England's and Germany's games this WC. I stand by what I said.

Germany played a good team game and the English did not. End of story.

Same bullshit that the English media spews. Sorry, but a team is made up of individuals and will be judged by their quality. Sure, there are factors like coaching, preparation, and facilities, but England can hardly be said to lack in any of these.

Germany has one really, really good player -Ozil and perhaps Muller is halfway decent, and on the other side, Steven Gerrard is indeed a world class player.

You try to sell somebody else on this. Stevie G is a good player, but nothing remotely close to being world class, something I learned over many years of watching him at Liverpool and for England. The guy cannot carry a team consistently by himself at either level, something made painfully clear this past season.

As for Germany, players like Klose are solid a club level and have shined for the NT. Same for Podolski, Lahm, Schweinsteiger, and others. They are very good international class players who are being rounded out the world class potential of Ozil and Muller. Together they produce Der Manschaft, a term that finally be used for a German NT team after so many years of searching...but years in which they have vastly outproduced England.

You can judge a player by what he has CONSISTENTLY done over years at different levels of the game. If we were to apply your logic to it's logical extent, then players like Didier Drogba and Samuel Eto'o who has almost always underachieved in a Cameroonian shirt can not be classified as world-class either (which they clearly are).

See what I just wrote. As for Drogba and Eto, both are world class because they have played big in big games over many years. The same cannot be said for the English players. Moreover, at the NT level, let's be honest, they both play for teams that simply don't have the talent and preparation means of teams like Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Holland, and even England. They're in situations similar to George Best was when he had to play for Northern Ireland. Pele isn't going to make such teams champions.

Finally, yes, something is missing when a player cannot make a stamp on a world cup. This is the pinnacle of competition, when you play the very best players, whom play in their own indigenous style. Personally, I believe that if a top NT had 2 months to prepare, sorry, they would thrash most club sides, especially those of the EPL.

As an aside, what really is Fabio Capello thinking? There is nothing in this English team that a second rate English coach could not have done. Gareth "can't make an accurate forward pass/can't control the ball/can't defend" Barry, Emile Heskey, James Milner in place of Manchester City's Andy Johnson? God!
Gareth Barry while Michael Carrick was on the bench ?. Probably wouldn't have mattered, but what kind of coach are you when you makie such decisions?

Look, I've been watching and playing football for 35 years now. No coach can do much with the players you just mentioned. But look at even the supposedly good English players? Terry? A Cole? Upson? Barry? Lampard? I can only laugh at how the effectiveness of market branding make people think these guys are quality. These guys are poorly skilled and would be dead in a Brazilian or Argentinian league match, even an advanced level pick up game in many of these countries.

Oh well, some people prefer illusion. So be it. But the World Cup doesn't favor illusionists, certainly not what the lords of English mythology perpetuate.

Cheers, Mate

[Waffiman]

Of course it is an indictment. Bunch of no skill plodders who do not have skill or verve.. Compare the much hyped Lampard and Gerrard to Ozil, Podolski and Schweinsteiger..The EPL does not encourage skill. How many EPL players are left in the tourney?

Yeah!! The EPL has been around since 1966.