A TRIBUTE TO SEGUN ODEGBAMI - AFRICA'S GREATEST NO 7

[SUYA]

Fegwu.......Hard Stuff ke ? U couldnt drink Mirinda without choking.......but then I no blame u because u obvioulsy didnt see Segun play.

[Gotti]

FEGWU:
Without prejudice, your position is akin to folks debating 20 years from now in 2025 whether Okocha or Kanu was the better player, and one cites the stats of two-time APOY, UEFA Champions League medal and several Dutch and English league and FA Cup winners medals as "stats" that establish the superiority of Kanu over Okocha.

The truth is that stats and (such other quantifiable facts) are merely part of the raw material of history. It lends foundation to history, but it is NOT the entire building and does NOT give the entire picture.
_________________________________
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[Enugu II]

Azuka:

I have not exactly thought about coming up with the all time squad but I am likely to find space for the following individuals on it -- Odegbami, Okocha, Yekini, Chukwu, Muda, and Okala. The players will dictate the formation.



Maigida:

Clearly, there were adjustments made for several players on the SE just as will be made for severalo other teams. My main points was that the focus of an opponent in those days was Odegbami. Finidiwas not the focus on the SE team. There are ofcourse adjustments made by teams to not only deal with the likes of Finidi but even with the likes of Okoronkwo (Tongue in cheek). However, please note that I do not for one moment doubt Finidi's greatness but here one has to make a choice on who is greater and I believe Odegbami is that choice.




Fegwu:

To better understand your take on what justifies greatness, it would be better to first understand your points that suffice for Finidi's greatness? That should shed light to the type of argument that you seek as compelling. I assure you that except for the fact that Finidi played in Europe, Odegbami will match every other of his achievements and perhaps surpass each and every one of them. Also note that the fact of playing in Europe tells you very little, particularly when we can point out countless of others who played in Europe and yet will not even be mentioned in the type of argument that is going on this thread. In essence, playing in Europe is more a mark of an era rather than an acknowledgment of one's greatness.

[Catalyst]

FEGWU:
Without prejudice, your position is akin to folks debating 20 years from now in 2025 whether Okocha or Kanu was the better player, and one cites the stats of two-time APOY, UEFA Champions League medal and several Dutch and English league and FA Cup winners medals as "stats" that establish the superiority of Kanu over Okocha.

The truth is that stats and (such other quantifiable facts) are merely part of the raw material of history. It lends foundation to history, but it is NOT the entire building and does NOT give the entire picture.

I understand that that take was a double edge sword in regards to the "stats" mention.

But the stats I was in essense refering to was not mere silverwares and things like that. Rather a better way of measurement of greatness - I was hoping that there was a way measuring 'SO's'. I must confess I wish I could convey my sentiment better but what I have seen in this thread so far does not equate to greatness.

I assumed that when phrases like "great Nigerian playere ever" and "Greatest 7 in Africa" and thrown around in relation to 'SO' that should be a way of conveying that point better. So far what I have seen here so far is just nostalgia and relative deprevation aided perspective.

Maybe we should be talking in terms of potential. That is probably on when I believe 'SO' would actually merit all these praise.

[Mudi E]

Kai...watching Odegbami back then just brought joy to your stomach and you couldn't wait to see him play the next match. He was mister everything in our frontline. He could play any position, both the right wing and the left wind and the way he interchange with Adokie was simply awesome as they both dazzled opponent.
Odegbami was a better all round winger than Finidi. Finidi played a very simple game without using much skills the way Odegbami did.
That touchline dribble was something else. I have watched football since the late 70's and I haven't seen anyone in world soccer that is so deft at touchline dribble the way Odegbami was.

[Catalyst]

Also

For the records (like it really matters) and to append to my last post, let it be known that I believe Augustine Okocha is a very talented player but he doubles also as the most overrated player in Nigerian football history at least at the senior level. This is my opinion and could change in future.

Just had to clearify that.

[ROSSIKE]

Any one know how one may get a video of the Green Eagles with Mathematical in it? Say the 1980 ANC final v Algeria for instance?

[General Trousers]

1Naija is essentially correct. From 1976 to 1990 we were jokes on the international stage. Losing Olympic event after Olympic event ... Only starting in 1983 when we made some inroads in the U-21 which finally bore fruit years later (1985, 1989, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1998).

Indeed TODAY, Enyimba has greater players than these guys of yester-year. However it is true that the game is MORE global now and that only 1 African team as allowed to play in the WC for the longest time. Still African countries still fair vaery poorly in the WC, which says a lot.

The evidence from yester-year shows that we were poor when it came to away games ...

http://www.rsssf.com/tables/62q.html
http://www.rsssf.com/tables/70q.html
http://www.rsssf.com/tables/74q.html
http://www.rsssf.com/tables/78q.html
http://www.rsssf.com/tables/82q.html

SUYA:

Man, you took us back in time with the write-up. Great. IMO, Odegbami was INDEED the best then and even now he is aeguably the best ever to play ion the right for Nigeria.


1Naija:

Man, Odegbami proved his mettle on the continent. If you recall, he was the only Nigerian (bar none -- Finidi, West, Yekini, Okechukwu etc) who was named to CAF's Africa's best in the last century. Let us not forget that. The guy was truly good. He may not have played in Europe but now every d#$% and Harry ( )does but that was not the case then --- in fact, the goal during his days was not to play in Europe but to seek education in the USA. On that, he was not interested because he had already obtained that education at Ibadan Polytech.

EII, the goal of most players back then as it is now, was to win Championships, and except for the 1980 Nations cup which they barely won AT HOME, they were a complete failure both in Africa and elsewhere. FINIDI, like the other TRUE great Nigerian players (OLISEH, AMOKACHI, RUFAI, AMUNIKE, SIASIA, YEKINI, etc) excelled not only against each other, but against their peers ALL OVER THE WORLD. Odegbami, Chukwu, Adokie and co. only excelled against each other, so while there is doubt that they were great against each other, we must not lose sight of the fact that they at times appeared less than ordinary against their peers. In fact it was not uncommon for the great Odegbami and co to collect 4 or 5 goals from Egyptians and Tunisians every time they step out of Nigeria.

I have maintained and will continue to maintain that the Green Eagles players were great players, but only locally.

1Naija, Odegbami belonged to that IICC team that was the first Nigerian club to win anything outside of Nigeria when they won the 1976 African Cup Winners Cup.

As you have erroneously pointed out, the 1980 ANC Championship is not the only great time in Odegbami's life. How you can call Odegbami and Adokie a failure beats me. Any soccer-loving Nigeria should know that Adokie and Odegbami were soccer gods in their prime.

Well, in that case, All the current Enyimba players are great players.

[Sir V]

E11,

We tend to forget about the great Baba #$% Mohammed, whom I believe was more talented than both Odegbami and Finidi. Although, I still believe Odegbami was the best because of his strengt, pace and his ability to play the centre forward position.
Also, we shold not forget that Baba #$% was voted the best right winger in Africa after the 1976 ANC in Addis Ababa. What a brilliant player.

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

Any one know how one may get a video of the Green Eagles with Mathematical in it? Say the 1980 ANC final v Algeria for instance?

I bought a copy from Eze...someone borrowed it over a year ago, and I cant remember who that person was!

[Enugu II]

E11,

We tend to forget about the great Baba #$% Mohammed, whom I believe was more talented than both Odegbami and Finidi. Although, I still believe Odegbami was the best because of his strengt, pace and his ability to play the centre forward position.
Also, we not forget that Baba #$% was voted the best right winger in Africa after the 1976 ANC in Addis Ababa. What a brilliant player.

Sir V:

#$% was indeed a good winger but he was also converted, I believe, after his days with Mighty Jets (Prior to joining Raccah). Man, where were you in those days --- Lagos or Benin? Btw, I was in Nsukka at that time.

#$% was talented but I'll tell you that he played disinterested on some days and I believe that was why he ultimately lost his position to Odegbami after Dire Dawa 76. #$% and Awesu did form a strong pair of wingers in 1976 before Odegbami and Adokiye finally took over.

[1naija]

Fegwu, your knowledge of effective football is unmatched on this board. It's good to know that not all Nigerians are mesmerized by fruitless dribbles that are aimed to please the crowd. Odegbami, like his fellow green eagles players were only concrened with the cheers they received during games. They were never concerned about results. Here are the facts about Odegbami and other great players from that era.

1. They never won anything tangible for Nigeria except for the Nations cup which they narrowly won AT HOME
2. They never defeated any real team in AFrica away from Nigeria.
3. All their great performances were against even more local players whose idea of effective football was how far one can kick the ball.
4. It was not uncommon for players in that era to go to a match with the sole aim of "tearing the net" with a shot. In short, the players with the most brute force in those days were usually considered the best players.

The bottomline is that the Odegbamis, and the Chukwus and the Adokiyes never competed against the best players in the world, so their greatness (WHICH I AM NOT DISPUTING) was limited to against each other.

Gotti wrote:
FEGWU:
Without prejudice, your position is akin to folks debating 20 years from now in 2025 whether Okocha or Kanu was the better player, and one cites the stats of two-time APOY, UEFA Champions League medal and several Dutch and English league and FA Cup winners medals as "stats" that establish the superiority of Kanu over Okocha

GOTTI, but the debate is not whether Odegbami was better than any of his team mates or not. We all agree that he was one of the best players in that team. In fact he was a great player in that team, but only in that team. Because once he stepped out of Nigeria, he and the rest of his team mates were made to look less than ordinary.
Also when such argument are made 20 years from now, those folks can say even though one player had more personal awards, both player excelled against the best in the world at the time, including the great Rivaldo, Zidane, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Viera, Batistuta, Ayala, Veron, Eto'o, Diouf, etc. But you can't name one world class player that Odegbami excelled against.

[baprophet]

1. They never won anything tangible for Nigeria except for the Nations cup which they narrowly won AT HOME

I am not sure how knacking Algeria 3-0 would be considered narrow furthertmore the Finidi era Eagles lost the same ANC AT HOME. Also for whatever it is worth the Odegbami Eagles did take Bronze at the 78 ANC and the Odegbami era shooting starts were the first to win a Continental Trophy

2. They never defeated any real team in AFrica away from Nigeria.

And whom are the great teams that the Finidi era EAGLES beat away from Nigeria ? Sierral leone? Liberia ?

4. It was not uncommon for players in that era to go to a match with the sole aim of "tearing the net" with a shot. In short, the players with the most brute force in those days were usually considered the best players.

Cant think of a Single Eagles player in those days hwom was known for Brute force with the exception of maybe Owo-Blow. The rest were Finesse Players , Adokiye, Muda, Odegbami etc etc

[1naija]

2. They never defeated any real team in AFrica away from Nigeria.

And whom are the great teams that the Finidi era EAGLES beat away from Nigeria ? Sierral leone? Liberia ?

The Finidi era Eagles also defeated Spain, Bulgaria, and Greece IN WORLD CUP GAMES, qualified for the WC 3 times in a row, and most importantly, defeated Tunisia, and Egypt, two teams that the Odegbami era Eagles dreaded as "Oyinbo" team.

[baprophet]

Actually the Odegbami era Eagles owned Tunisia and Egypt we knacked Egypt 4-0 with Odegbami socring a hat trick and even hough Tunisia kicked us out of WC78, we kicked trhem out of WC 82

[1naija]

Actually the Odegbami era Eagles owned Tunisia and Egypt we knacked Egypt 4-0 with Odegbami socring a hat trick and even hough Tunisia kicked us out of WC78, we kicked trhem out of WC 82

So are you going to name the world class players that Odegbami excelled against to make him so great or not?

[baprophet]

There are no names to name for the mere fact that It's irrelelvant. As Gotti would say such comparisons are odiuos afterall a man can only be measured againt the opponents that he had to face.

You could say that the odegbami eagles never beat counries like Spain and Bulgaria but i could also point out that they didnt lose to countries like Sierra leone and liberia either. You could say That Odegbami only won the ANC at home but I could also say that Finidi lost it at home and even though Nigeria won in Tunisia 94 many would agree that Finidi had a subpar anc 94 as he did at ANC 2002. Odegbami on the other hand if my memmory serves me right never had a subpar tournament.

The long and short of it is that many of us watched Both Odegbami and Finidi play and Odegbami had far more impact on games than Finidi did

[paj]

Also

For the records (like it really matters) and to append to my last post, let it be known that I believe Augustine Okocha is a very talented player but he doubles also as the most overrated player in Nigerian football history at least at the senior level. This is my opinion and could change in future.

Just had to clearify that.

..U must be on some serious 'Spinach'. ..most overrated?Oga sah...what are U talking about?I was watching Bolton two weeks or so ago and Okocha made a looping no-look instep backward(with his back to the opponents goal during a counterattack)overhead 35 yard pass that beat the entire opposing team's defence and land square at the feet of an onrushing Bolton striker...of course the striker squandered it but bros...even PELE could NOT do THAT!ok..can U kindly support the post U just posted with the name of a Naija #10 that was any more SKILLFUL than Okocha?

Pa

[1naija]

There are no names to name for the mere fact that It's irrelelvant. As Gotti would say such comparisons are odiuos afterall a man can only be measured againt the opponents that he had to face.

You could say that the odegbami eagles never beat counries like Spain and Bulgaria but i could also point out that they didnt lose to countries like Sierra leone and liberia either. You could say That Odegbami only won the ANC at home but I could also say that Finidi lost it at home and even though Nigeria won in Tunisia 94 many would agree that Finidi had a subpar anc 94 as he did at ANC 2002. Odegbami on the other hand if my memmory serves me right never had a subpar tournament.

The long and short of it is that many of us watched Both Odegbami and Finidi play and Odegbami had far more impact on games than Finidi did

GOTTI only makes such statement when such comparison does not favor his position, as he would not hesitate to compare chukwu's coaching record with that Bonfere, Westerhoff, and coaches from other eras in other instances.

The fact is, Finidi's greatness can stand on it's own without any mention of Odegbami, but you cannot validate Odegbami's greatness without comparing him to Finidi. That says it all.

[paj]

There are no names to name for the mere fact that It's irrelelvant. As Gotti would say such comparisons are odiuos afterall a man can only be measured againt the opponents that he had to face.

You could say that the odegbami eagles never beat counries like Spain and Bulgaria but i could also point out that they didnt lose to countries like Sierra leone and liberia either. You could say That Odegbami only won the ANC at home but I could also say that Finidi lost it at home and even though Nigeria won in Tunisia 94 many would agree that Finidi had a subpar anc 94 as he did at ANC 2002. Odegbami on the other hand if my memmory serves me right never had a subpar tournament.

The long and short of it is that many of us watched Both Odegbami and Finidi play and Odegbami had far more impact on games than Finidi did

GOTTI only makes such statement when such comparison does not favor his position, as he would not hesitate to compare chukwu's coaching record with that Bonfere, Westerhoff, and coaches from other eras in other instances.

The fact is, Finidi's greatness can stand on it's own without any mention of Odegbami, but you cannot validate Odegbami's greatness without comparing him to Finidi. That says it all.

..says who?That's your personal perspective dawg...the both of them would always crosspaths namewise because they both brought high standards of football to Naija..what's evident is that folks are making and passing remarks just because they've seen more of Finidi than Odegbami..instead of doing some research...just go and ask the supporters of Water Corporation of Ibadan who Odegbami is and watch them faint..

Pa

[1naija]

There are no names to name for the mere fact that It's irrelelvant. As Gotti would say such comparisons are odiuos afterall a man can only be measured againt the opponents that he had to face.

You could say that the odegbami eagles never beat counries like Spain and Bulgaria but i could also point out that they didnt lose to countries like Sierra leone and liberia either. You could say That Odegbami only won the ANC at home but I could also say that Finidi lost it at home and even though Nigeria won in Tunisia 94 many would agree that Finidi had a subpar anc 94 as he did at ANC 2002. Odegbami on the other hand if my memmory serves me right never had a subpar tournament.

The long and short of it is that many of us watched Both Odegbami and Finidi play and Odegbami had far more impact on games than Finidi did

GOTTI only makes such statement when such comparison does not favor his position, as he would not hesitate to compare chukwu's coaching record with that Bonfere, Westerhoff, and coaches from other eras in other instances.[/qoute]

what's evident is that folks are making and passing remarks just because they've seen more of Finidi than Odegbami..instead of doing some research...just go and ask the supporters of Water Corporation of Ibadan who Odegbami is and watch them faint..
Pa

Has anyone ever said that Odegbami was not great against other local players. In fact I will go on record and say that Odegbami was the greatest local champion, ever! Finidi on the other hand is a true international.

[paj]

There are no names to name for the mere fact that It's irrelelvant. As Gotti would say such comparisons are odiuos afterall a man can only be measured againt the opponents that he had to face.

You could say that the odegbami eagles never beat counries like Spain and Bulgaria but i could also point out that they didnt lose to countries like Sierra leone and liberia either. You could say That Odegbami only won the ANC at home but I could also say that Finidi lost it at home and even though Nigeria won in Tunisia 94 many would agree that Finidi had a subpar anc 94 as he did at ANC 2002. Odegbami on the other hand if my memmory serves me right never had a subpar tournament.

The long and short of it is that many of us watched Both Odegbami and Finidi play and Odegbami had far more impact on games than Finidi did

GOTTI only makes such statement when such comparison does not favor his position, as he would not hesitate to compare chukwu's coaching record with that Bonfere, Westerhoff, and coaches from other eras in other instances.[/qoute]

what's evident is that folks are making and passing remarks just because they've seen more of Finidi than Odegbami..instead of doing some research...just go and ask the supporters of Water Corporation of Ibadan who Odegbami is and watch them faint..
Pa

Has anyone ever said that Odegbami was not great against other local players. In fact I will go on record and say that Odegbami was the greatest local champion, ever! Finidi on the other hand is a true international.

..I guess destroying Algeria was a local match eh?U guys make me laught sometimes..I really wonder what U're staring @ on the screen when U say U're watching a soccer game..just the scoreline?

Pa

[Sir V]

E11,

We tend to forget about the great Baba #$% Mohammed, whom I believe was more talented than both Odegbami and Finidi. Although, I still believe Odegbami was the best because of his strengt, pace and his ability to play the centre forward position.
Also, we not forget that Baba #$% was voted the best right winger in Africa after the 1976 ANC in Addis Ababa. What a brilliant player.

Sir V:

#$% was indeed a good winger but he was also converted, I believe, after his days with Mighty Jets (Prior to joining Raccah). Man, where were you in those days --- Lagos or Benin? Btw, I was in Nsukka at that time.

#$% was talented but I'll tell you that he played disinterested on some days and I believe that was why he ultimately lost his position to Odegbami after Dire Dawa 76. #$% and Awesu did form a strong pair of wingers in 1976 before Odegbami and Adokiye finally took over.

You are spot on. Baba #$% was converted, I remember he played on the centre forward position with Anas Ahmed and Shefiu Mohammed for Raccah Rovers. Actually,during this period I was in Warri/Benin.