SE and Foreign Born Players

[Kabalega]

Simply make it an easy choice for the best to come to your land.

How many players has Africa (read Nigeria) lost to other countries? England, France, e.t.c take their pick of the best, then leave the rest for you.
Reverse the trend and have Europe’s best fighting to migrate to Nigeria.

I remember the Portuguese running to Africa not too long ago. So it can happen.

Honestly, it’s a global village. Let each team field the best players it can find around the world.

[Naija fan]

This a a very interesting discussion. As far as I am concerned, anyone born of Nigerian parentage regardless of where they are born is NIGERIAN and eligible to play for the national team. The advantage that the "away" born Nigerians have is that they get early exposure to modern football training. They also get the advantage of early exposure to the European teams. Those born in Nigeria and have talent and are lucky enough to get "discovered" usually end up overseas. The concern that is been expressed by some in this discussion is that the pool of home grown players on the NT is shrinking. This is a legitimate concern that we need to take seriously because, so far, ALL our super star players (VO, Mikel, Kanu, Okocha, etc) have been home grown. Until we have "away" born players with the quality of Mpape choosing to play for the NT, we need to focus our attention on the bigger talent pool in Nigeria and give them the necessary tools to flourish.

[Coach]

By the same rhetoric, as the world moves towards renewable energy sources, Nigeria must stay prehistoric playing with fossil fuels because there’s petroleum in its soils. Nonsense.

National representation should be just that, an assembly of a nation’s best representing said nation. If all are born and bred in diaspora and brimming with all the comparative advantage of their ajebuttering so be it. If they’re better, more adept, accomplished, spread the butter over all the agege till every loaf looks like a croissant. Who cares. There is no room for sentiment in pursuit of success. If the romanticised team of Roys of the Rovers is desired, then establish the infrastructure to achieve it. That, brethren is more than ramshackle academies and dust laden fields of dubious invoicing. Health, welfare, education. Build a society that serves sporting industry.

Again, one draws attention to England’s attempt at building sporting legacy. Huge investment in bricks and mortar, new roads, stadia, sporting facilities, housing and housing schemes, to endorse an Olympic bid. A countrywide search for talent, extension of PE and Sports related activity served by national curricula.

Huge bursaries, subsidies and scholarships to support talent and aid their sidestep of distraction due to socioeconomic circumstances.

Governmental food strategies improving awareness on healthy eating, increasing access to nutrition for low income households, sugar taxes and levies on foods of such ilk.

The surge in public-private partnerships to increase availability of sporting facilities nationwide. The list is endless. It’s more than building a building, it’s building a whole social system. The proceeds record Olympic medal hauls, gold medalists/world records across multiple disciplines. In international football, success across myriad age grades.

Sadly, even the investment in the female game in England far and away exceeds all being done in arguably are national sport.

In truth, the above effort is inconceivable, but if there’s a way to benefit from their efforts, let it be maximal.

[Damunk]

This a a very interesting discussion. As far as I am concerned, anyone born of Nigerian parentage regardless of where they are born is NIGERIAN and eligible to play for the national team. The advantage that the "away" born Nigerians have is that they get early exposure to modern football training. They also get the advantage of early exposure to the European teams. Those born in Nigeria and have talent and are lucky enough to get "discovered" usually end up overseas. The concern that is been expressed by some in this discussion is that the pool of home grown players on the NT is shrinking. This is a legitimate concern that we need to take seriously because, so far, ALL our super star players (VO, Mikel, Kanu, Okocha, etc) have been home grown. Until we have "away" born players with the quality of Mpape choosing to play for the NT, we need to focus our attention on the bigger talent pool in Nigeria and give them the necessary tools to flourish.

It’s a concern and a reason to work towards making the local football environment as conducive as possible.
But to think it is going to compete with the top leagues in the world in the next 20 or 30 years is a pipe dream.

The Nigerian economy is nothing great and how anyone can believe the NPFL is divorced from the economic climate of the country is befuddling. To then go on and expect that we will be retaining our top talent old and young is even more delusional. If anything, Nigerian footballers created the jappa movement. Nor be today they have been fleeing.

Next thing, someone will come and say that the national team we expect to compete favorably on the global stage should reflect three or four local players by force?
And then, if they are not deemed good enough, the conclusion is that it is because they are being ignored and therefore not given an ‘equal chance’?

Given an ‘equal chance’ like the Sokoto state JAMB pupil with a score of 85 who is given “a chance” in University to study engineering at the expense of the Imo state pupil with a score of 195 who is sitting at home as a result.

Where is the logic in that?
Gimme a break, abeg.

[Damunk]

By the same rhetoric, as the world moves towards renewable energy sources, Nigeria must stay prehistoric playing with fossil fuels because there’s petroleum in its soils. Nonsense.

National representation should be just that, an assembly of a nation’s best representing said nation. If all are born and bred in diaspora and brimming with all the comparative advantage of their ajebuttering so be it. If they’re better, more adept, accomplished, spread the butter over all the agege till every loaf looks like a croissant. Who cares. There is no room for sentiment in pursuit of success. If the romanticised team of Roys of the Rovers is desired, then establish the infrastructure to achieve it. That, brethren is more than ramshackle academies and dust laden fields of dubious invoicing. Health, welfare, education. Build a society that serves sporting industry.

Again, one draws attention to England’s attempt at building sporting legacy. Huge investment in bricks and mortar, new roads, stadia, sporting facilities, housing and housing schemes, to endorse an Olympic bid. A countrywide search for talent, extension of PE and Sports related activity served by national curricula.

Huge bursaries, subsidies and scholarships to support talent and aid their sidestep of distraction due to socioeconomic circumstances.

Governmental food strategies improving awareness on healthy eating, increasing access to nutrition for low income households, sugar taxes and levies on foods of such ilk.

The surge in public-private partnerships to increase availability of sporting facilities nationwide. The list is endless. It’s more than building a building, it’s building a whole social system. The proceeds record Olympic medal hauls, gold medalists/world records across multiple disciplines. In international football, success across myriad age grades.

Sadly, even the investment in the female game in England far and away exceeds all being done in arguably are national sport.

In truth, the above effort is inconceivable, but if there’s a way to benefit from their efforts, let it be maximal.

Well said.
Not really arguable but they will argue anyway - often with a straw-man: “Oh, why don’t you people want to develop the local leagues and a credible youth program?”
“Why don’t you people want to give the local players an equal chance in the SE?”

[aruako1]

Chif - i agree - the best players should play.

However, if we get to the stage where there are no locally born players on SE (whether playing in the local leagues or overseas) then what conclusions can we draw and what does that imply? For example if one concludes that the reason only foreign born are the best then it seems there is some argument to be made for the soccer development that occurs from ages 5 to 15 or so. Does one conclude that Nigeria should invest less on the professional league and more on youth soccer?

I don't have a firm opinion. Just trying to see what folks think about the implications?

It is what it is. If our NFF don’t want to develop our local league then we have to look somewhere else. I’m glad this AFCON has shut up people who think foreign born players are soft and can’t play the African game. With that said, we have a few local players that can add some value to this team.

God bless you packerland.
But don’t bet any body shutting up for long.

There are those for whom it is more important to be right than it is for them to publicly enjoy the sweet smell of success made by the very boys they are so quick to disparage….the ‘rejects’, the ‘ajebotas’, the ‘softies’ that are “not hungry” and “dont understand the African game”.

Have you heard pimm from them lately on that matter?
But just let them falter and they’ll be back out in force.

It is a legitimate discussion and raising it does not necessarily imply a dislike for foreign based players. It is important that aspiring players growing up in Nigeria (the country with the highest number of Nigerians) see role models that have followed the same route.

Aruako, I always tell you that you speak for yourself, but either by accident or design, you miss a lot of the very malicious words and thinly-veiled toxic opinions of others.

To address your point, it is NOT a “legitimate discussion” when foreign-borns are painted with a broad brush and labeled in the ways mentioned. Ways which strangely you seem not to be aware of.
The legit discussion is that the local league needs attention and that is not and has never been in dispute.
It’s a straw man that keeps on being brought up time and time again.

That the NPFL is not ‘represented’ in the SE is not rocket science.
You can’t on the one hand lament the total neglect and poor state of the NPFL and in the same breath complain that its products are not being invited alongside more or less the cream of our fb players enjoying facilities, training, coaching and career development way in advance of anything we have back home.

Anyway, I believe the much-maligned ‘innit’ boys have proven their legitimacy, whether some die-hards like it or not.
May the naysayers have many more years of cognitive dissonance because, like I said all those years ago when Iwobi stepped across the touch line to enter field for us, it’s only just the beginning.

A tsunami is coming.

It is a legitimate discussion to question the commitment of players that, more often than not, had to be persuaded to represent us. There is nothing malicious there. Malice would be to continue picking on them when they show commitment. And it is not as absurd as you think to advocate for NPFL talent in the SE. Despite the shambles of the NPFL, having more players will only raise its profile. But of course it is not a substitute for fixing the NPFL.

Youve conveniently avoided the broad brush I was specifically referring to in the post you responded to, and which again I referred to when responding to you.
Malicious is to paint them all in the same light just because there are some who have chosen to follow a different path.
It would be nice if you could give a clear, unequivocal view specifically on that which really is the main thrust of this thread’s OP.
Did you read some of the vitriol posted here on Saka when he came on his philanthropic visit to Lagos? He would never have got that had he chosen to play for Naija.

But some can’t even leave it at that.
Even those that have chosen us still get stereotyped esp when the goings get tough, simply because they weren’t born in or didn’t grow up in Naija.

I have not supported tarring all foreignplayers with the negative brush - they have added a lot to the SE. And my son is a UK born Nigerian so if he had the ability I would want him in the SE. However, when considering a player that was brought up outside Nigeria, it is legitimate to consider whether they understand what it means to play for Nigeria, and whether they will be committed to the SE. This is because the buzz around an SE game hits more when you are in Nigeria. But it is wrong to keep questioning that commitment on the basis of their foreign upbringing once they have a bad game - that is absolutely wrong.

[Enugu II]

It is what it is. If our NFF don’t want to develop our local league then we have to look somewhere else. I’m glad this AFCON has shut up people who think foreign born players are soft and can’t play the African game. With that said, we have a few local players that can add some value to this team.

God bless you packerland.
But don’t bet any body shutting up for long.

There are those for whom it is more important to be right than it is for them to publicly enjoy the sweet smell of success made by the very boys they are so quick to disparage….the ‘rejects’, the ‘ajebotas’, the ‘softies’ that are “not hungry” and “dont understand the African game”.

Have you heard pimm from them lately on that matter?
But just let them falter and they’ll be back out in force.

It is a legitimate discussion and raising it does not necessarily imply a dislike for foreign based players. It is important that aspiring players growing up in Nigeria (the country with the highest number of Nigerians) see role models that have followed the same route.

Aruako, I always tell you that you speak for yourself, but either by accident or design, you miss a lot of the very malicious words and thinly-veiled toxic opinions of others.

To address your point, it is NOT a “legitimate discussion” when foreign-borns are painted with a broad brush and labeled in the ways mentioned. Ways which strangely you seem not to be aware of.
The legit discussion is that the local league needs attention and that is not and has never been in dispute.
It’s a straw man that keeps on being brought up time and time again.

That the NPFL is not ‘represented’ in the SE is not rocket science.
You can’t on the one hand lament the total neglect and poor state of the NPFL and in the same breath complain that its products are not being invited alongside more or less the cream of our fb players enjoying facilities, training, coaching and career development way in advance of anything we have back home.

Anyway, I believe the much-maligned ‘innit’ boys have proven their legitimacy, whether some die-hards like it or not.
May the naysayers have many more years of cognitive dissonance because, like I said all those years ago when Iwobi stepped across the touch line to enter field for us, it’s only just the beginning.

A tsunami is coming.

It is a legitimate discussion to question the commitment of players that, more often than not, had to be persuaded to represent us. There is nothing malicious there. Malice would be to continue picking on them when they show commitment. And it is not as absurd as you think to advocate for NPFL talent in the SE. Despite the shambles of the NPFL, having more players will only raise its profile. But of course it is not a substitute for fixing the NPFL.

Youve conveniently avoided the broad brush I was specifically referring to in the post you responded to, and which again I referred to when responding to you.
Malicious is to paint them all in the same light just because there are some who have chosen to follow a different path.
It would be nice if you could give a clear, unequivocal view specifically on that which really is the main thrust of this thread’s OP.
Did you read some of the vitriol posted here on Saka when he came on his philanthropic visit to Lagos? He would never have got that had he chosen to play for Naija.

But some can’t even leave it at that.
Even those that have chosen us still get stereotyped esp when the goings get tough, simply because they weren’t born in or didn’t grow up in Naija.

I have not supported tarring all foreignplayers with the negative brush - they have added a lot to the SE. And my son is a UK born Nigerian so if he had the ability I would want him in the SE. However, when considering a player that was brought up outside Nigeria, it is legitimate to consider whether they understand what it means to play for Nigeria, and whether they will be committed to the SE. This is because the buzz around an SE game hits more when you are in Nigeria. But it is wrong to keep questioning that commitment on the basis of their foreign upbringing once they have a bad game - that is absolutely wrong.

Aruako

I do not believe that it is simply about that divide of born or not born in Nigeria. It is about an individual. Take Iheanacho, for instance, or Chukwueze, born are born in Nigeria. But do those two give us 110 every time they put on that shirt?

[Damunk]

It is what it is. If our NFF don’t want to develop our local league then we have to look somewhere else. I’m glad this AFCON has shut up people who think foreign born players are soft and can’t play the African game. With that said, we have a few local players that can add some value to this team.

God bless you packerland.
But don’t bet any body shutting up for long.

There are those for whom it is more important to be right than it is for them to publicly enjoy the sweet smell of success made by the very boys they are so quick to disparage….the ‘rejects’, the ‘ajebotas’, the ‘softies’ that are “not hungry” and “dont understand the African game”.

Have you heard pimm from them lately on that matter?
But just let them falter and they’ll be back out in force.

It is a legitimate discussion and raising it does not necessarily imply a dislike for foreign based players. It is important that aspiring players growing up in Nigeria (the country with the highest number of Nigerians) see role models that have followed the same route.

Aruako, I always tell you that you speak for yourself, but either by accident or design, you miss a lot of the very malicious words and thinly-veiled toxic opinions of others.

To address your point, it is NOT a “legitimate discussion” when foreign-borns are painted with a broad brush and labeled in the ways mentioned. Ways which strangely you seem not to be aware of.
The legit discussion is that the local league needs attention and that is not and has never been in dispute.
It’s a straw man that keeps on being brought up time and time again.

That the NPFL is not ‘represented’ in the SE is not rocket science.
You can’t on the one hand lament the total neglect and poor state of the NPFL and in the same breath complain that its products are not being invited alongside more or less the cream of our fb players enjoying facilities, training, coaching and career development way in advance of anything we have back home.

Anyway, I believe the much-maligned ‘innit’ boys have proven their legitimacy, whether some die-hards like it or not.
May the naysayers have many more years of cognitive dissonance because, like I said all those years ago when Iwobi stepped across the touch line to enter field for us, it’s only just the beginning.

A tsunami is coming.

It is a legitimate discussion to question the commitment of players that, more often than not, had to be persuaded to represent us. There is nothing malicious there. Malice would be to continue picking on them when they show commitment. And it is not as absurd as you think to advocate for NPFL talent in the SE. Despite the shambles of the NPFL, having more players will only raise its profile. But of course it is not a substitute for fixing the NPFL.

Youve conveniently avoided the broad brush I was specifically referring to in the post you responded to, and which again I referred to when responding to you.
Malicious is to paint them all in the same light just because there are some who have chosen to follow a different path.
It would be nice if you could give a clear, unequivocal view specifically on that which really is the main thrust of this thread’s OP.
Did you read some of the vitriol posted here on Saka when he came on his philanthropic visit to Lagos? He would never have got that had he chosen to play for Naija.

But some can’t even leave it at that.
Even those that have chosen us still get stereotyped esp when the goings get tough, simply because they weren’t born in or didn’t grow up in Naija.

I have not supported tarring all foreignplayers with the negative brush - they have added a lot to the SE. And my son is a UK born Nigerian so if he had the ability I would want him in the SE. However, when considering a player that was brought up outside Nigeria, it is legitimate to consider whether they understand what it means to play for Nigeria, and whether they will be committed to the SE. This is because the buzz around an SE game hits more when you are in Nigeria. But it is wrong to keep questioning that commitment on the basis of their foreign upbringing once they have a bad game - that is absolutely wrong.

Thank you. That’s what everyone needs to hear from more people.
I feel like one of just a few lone voices in this place, because the insinuations are everywhere and go mostly unchallenged.
Maybe as a foreign born Nigerian myself, I feel it and spot it more, but that shouldn’t be the case.

But like I’ve said, it’s layered and insidious and linked with the home-based player debate, as if we are inviting every ‘Kunle Kickabout’ that exists in the UK.

[Damunk]

God bless you packerland.
But don’t bet any body shutting up for long.

There are those for whom it is more important to be right than it is for them to publicly enjoy the sweet smell of success made by the very boys they are so quick to disparage….the ‘rejects’, the ‘ajebotas’, the ‘softies’ that are “not hungry” and “dont understand the African game”.

Have you heard pimm from them lately on that matter?
But just let them falter and they’ll be back out in force.

It is a legitimate discussion and raising it does not necessarily imply a dislike for foreign based players. It is important that aspiring players growing up in Nigeria (the country with the highest number of Nigerians) see role models that have followed the same route.

Aruako, I always tell you that you speak for yourself, but either by accident or design, you miss a lot of the very malicious words and thinly-veiled toxic opinions of others.

To address your point, it is NOT a “legitimate discussion” when foreign-borns are painted with a broad brush and labeled in the ways mentioned. Ways which strangely you seem not to be aware of.
The legit discussion is that the local league needs attention and that is not and has never been in dispute.
It’s a straw man that keeps on being brought up time and time again.

That the NPFL is not ‘represented’ in the SE is not rocket science.
You can’t on the one hand lament the total neglect and poor state of the NPFL and in the same breath complain that its products are not being invited alongside more or less the cream of our fb players enjoying facilities, training, coaching and career development way in advance of anything we have back home.

Anyway, I believe the much-maligned ‘innit’ boys have proven their legitimacy, whether some die-hards like it or not.
May the naysayers have many more years of cognitive dissonance because, like I said all those years ago when Iwobi stepped across the touch line to enter field for us, it’s only just the beginning.

A tsunami is coming.

It is a legitimate discussion to question the commitment of players that, more often than not, had to be persuaded to represent us. There is nothing malicious there. Malice would be to continue picking on them when they show commitment. And it is not as absurd as you think to advocate for NPFL talent in the SE. Despite the shambles of the NPFL, having more players will only raise its profile. But of course it is not a substitute for fixing the NPFL.

Youve conveniently avoided the broad brush I was specifically referring to in the post you responded to, and which again I referred to when responding to you.
Malicious is to paint them all in the same light just because there are some who have chosen to follow a different path.
It would be nice if you could give a clear, unequivocal view specifically on that which really is the main thrust of this thread’s OP.
Did you read some of the vitriol posted here on Saka when he came on his philanthropic visit to Lagos? He would never have got that had he chosen to play for Naija.

But some can’t even leave it at that.
Even those that have chosen us still get stereotyped esp when the goings get tough, simply because they weren’t born in or didn’t grow up in Naija.

I have not supported tarring all foreignplayers with the negative brush - they have added a lot to the SE. And my son is a UK born Nigerian so if he had the ability I would want him in the SE. However, when considering a player that was brought up outside Nigeria, it is legitimate to consider whether they understand what it means to play for Nigeria, and whether they will be committed to the SE. This is because the buzz around an SE game hits more when you are in Nigeria. But it is wrong to keep questioning that commitment on the basis of their foreign upbringing once they have a bad game - that is absolutely wrong.

Aruako

I do not believe that it is simply about that divide of born or not born in Nigeria. It is about an individual. Take Iheanacho, for instance, or Chukwueze, born are born in Nigeria. But do those two give us 110 every time they put on that shirt?

You are right boss, but the difference is, they are criticized as individuals, and not because they were born here or there, or because they come from a certain place, or their religion, or their beliefs.
There’s no paint brush.

[aruako1]

God bless you packerland.
But don’t bet any body shutting up for long.

There are those for whom it is more important to be right than it is for them to publicly enjoy the sweet smell of success made by the very boys they are so quick to disparage….the ‘rejects’, the ‘ajebotas’, the ‘softies’ that are “not hungry” and “dont understand the African game”.

Have you heard pimm from them lately on that matter?
But just let them falter and they’ll be back out in force.

It is a legitimate discussion and raising it does not necessarily imply a dislike for foreign based players. It is important that aspiring players growing up in Nigeria (the country with the highest number of Nigerians) see role models that have followed the same route.

Aruako, I always tell you that you speak for yourself, but either by accident or design, you miss a lot of the very malicious words and thinly-veiled toxic opinions of others.

To address your point, it is NOT a “legitimate discussion” when foreign-borns are painted with a broad brush and labeled in the ways mentioned. Ways which strangely you seem not to be aware of.
The legit discussion is that the local league needs attention and that is not and has never been in dispute.
It’s a straw man that keeps on being brought up time and time again.

That the NPFL is not ‘represented’ in the SE is not rocket science.
You can’t on the one hand lament the total neglect and poor state of the NPFL and in the same breath complain that its products are not being invited alongside more or less the cream of our fb players enjoying facilities, training, coaching and career development way in advance of anything we have back home.

Anyway, I believe the much-maligned ‘innit’ boys have proven their legitimacy, whether some die-hards like it or not.
May the naysayers have many more years of cognitive dissonance because, like I said all those years ago when Iwobi stepped across the touch line to enter field for us, it’s only just the beginning.

A tsunami is coming.

It is a legitimate discussion to question the commitment of players that, more often than not, had to be persuaded to represent us. There is nothing malicious there. Malice would be to continue picking on them when they show commitment. And it is not as absurd as you think to advocate for NPFL talent in the SE. Despite the shambles of the NPFL, having more players will only raise its profile. But of course it is not a substitute for fixing the NPFL.

Youve conveniently avoided the broad brush I was specifically referring to in the post you responded to, and which again I referred to when responding to you.
Malicious is to paint them all in the same light just because there are some who have chosen to follow a different path.
It would be nice if you could give a clear, unequivocal view specifically on that which really is the main thrust of this thread’s OP.
Did you read some of the vitriol posted here on Saka when he came on his philanthropic visit to Lagos? He would never have got that had he chosen to play for Naija.

But some can’t even leave it at that.
Even those that have chosen us still get stereotyped esp when the goings get tough, simply because they weren’t born in or didn’t grow up in Naija.

I have not supported tarring all foreignplayers with the negative brush - they have added a lot to the SE. And my son is a UK born Nigerian so if he had the ability I would want him in the SE. However, when considering a player that was brought up outside Nigeria, it is legitimate to consider whether they understand what it means to play for Nigeria, and whether they will be committed to the SE. This is because the buzz around an SE game hits more when you are in Nigeria. But it is wrong to keep questioning that commitment on the basis of their foreign upbringing once they have a bad game - that is absolutely wrong.

Aruako

I do not believe that it is simply about that divide of born or not born in Nigeria. It is about an individual. Take Iheanacho, for instance, or Chukwueze, born are born in Nigeria. But do those two give us 110 every time they put on that shirt?

Not all criticism is based on the place where the person was raised. However, that is the subject of this thread. Of course, thise born in Nigeria can also lack commitment.

[Dammy]

God bless you packerland.
But don’t bet any body shutting up for long.

There are those for whom it is more important to be right than it is for them to publicly enjoy the sweet smell of success made by the very boys they are so quick to disparage….the ‘rejects’, the ‘ajebotas’, the ‘softies’ that are “not hungry” and “dont understand the African game”.

Have you heard pimm from them lately on that matter?
But just let them falter and they’ll be back out in force.

It is a legitimate discussion and raising it does not necessarily imply a dislike for foreign based players. It is important that aspiring players growing up in Nigeria (the country with the highest number of Nigerians) see role models that have followed the same route.

Aruako, I always tell you that you speak for yourself, but either by accident or design, you miss a lot of the very malicious words and thinly-veiled toxic opinions of others.

To address your point, it is NOT a “legitimate discussion” when foreign-borns are painted with a broad brush and labeled in the ways mentioned. Ways which strangely you seem not to be aware of.
The legit discussion is that the local league needs attention and that is not and has never been in dispute.
It’s a straw man that keeps on being brought up time and time again.

That the NPFL is not ‘represented’ in the SE is not rocket science.
You can’t on the one hand lament the total neglect and poor state of the NPFL and in the same breath complain that its products are not being invited alongside more or less the cream of our fb players enjoying facilities, training, coaching and career development way in advance of anything we have back home.

Anyway, I believe the much-maligned ‘innit’ boys have proven their legitimacy, whether some die-hards like it or not.
May the naysayers have many more years of cognitive dissonance because, like I said all those years ago when Iwobi stepped across the touch line to enter field for us, it’s only just the beginning.

A tsunami is coming.

It is a legitimate discussion to question the commitment of players that, more often than not, had to be persuaded to represent us. There is nothing malicious there. Malice would be to continue picking on them when they show commitment. And it is not as absurd as you think to advocate for NPFL talent in the SE. Despite the shambles of the NPFL, having more players will only raise its profile. But of course it is not a substitute for fixing the NPFL.

Youve conveniently avoided the broad brush I was specifically referring to in the post you responded to, and which again I referred to when responding to you.
Malicious is to paint them all in the same light just because there are some who have chosen to follow a different path.
It would be nice if you could give a clear, unequivocal view specifically on that which really is the main thrust of this thread’s OP.
Did you read some of the vitriol posted here on Saka when he came on his philanthropic visit to Lagos? He would never have got that had he chosen to play for Naija.

But some can’t even leave it at that.
Even those that have chosen us still get stereotyped esp when the goings get tough, simply because they weren’t born in or didn’t grow up in Naija.

I have not supported tarring all foreignplayers with the negative brush - they have added a lot to the SE. And my son is a UK born Nigerian so if he had the ability I would want him in the SE. However, when considering a player that was brought up outside Nigeria, it is legitimate to consider whether they understand what it means to play for Nigeria, and whether they will be committed to the SE. This is because the buzz around an SE game hits more when you are in Nigeria. But it is wrong to keep questioning that commitment on the basis of their foreign upbringing once they have a bad game - that is absolutely wrong.

Aruako

I do not believe that it is simply about that divide of born or not born in Nigeria. It is about an individual. Take Iheanacho, for instance, or Chukwueze, born are born in Nigeria. But do those two give us 110 every time they put on that shirt?

How can you conclude that Iheanacho and Chukwueze do not give their best when playing for Nigeria? Must they run around like headless chickens before they are adjudged to have given their best?
This is so unfair to both players

[sarkin doya]

Nigerians are "tribalists" at the core.
Another thread about SE and Foreign-born players?
That this is being discussed, even if benign, is divisive and in bad taste.

ANC - some may choose to look at it from a divisive perspective of foreign born vs Nigeria born. That is absolutely not the intent here.

The question had to do with drawing conclusions from a trend and then wondering if there were any actions to be taken to strengthen the access to organized soccer for kids on a wider scale? The question was from a National strategy perspective. It is a question that cannot be placed under the carpet and hidden. It will come up again and again. It is not a question about team selection for a particular team. It is also not a new question.

Let me ask it a different way. Historically, the thought was that natural talent exists everywhere in Nigeria. The kids play soca on the streets and so the requirement for widespread organized soccer at the lower ages (ages 5 to 13) is not needed or rather a country with economic challenges could not afford to prioritize such activity. I simply ask the question that maybe it is? Talent along is insufficient and organized soccer should start at a much younger age. Just a thought.

[sarkin doya]

...

How can you conclude that Iheanacho and Chukwueze do not give their best when playing for Nigeria? Must they run around like headless chickens before they are adjudged to have given their best?
This is so unfair to both players

I really wish this thread would not turn into player X vs player Y and the current set of players. It is not even a question of should we pick players from local or foreign.

This thread is about conclusions to be drawn from an emerging trend and actions pertaining to wider-scale organized children/youth soccer in Nigeria (ages 5 to 14), given the limited financial resources available at the disposal of many parents.

[Bigpokey24]

This is a xenophobic thread.

[Enugu II]

It is a legitimate discussion and raising it does not necessarily imply a dislike for foreign based players. It is important that aspiring players growing up in Nigeria (the country with the highest number of Nigerians) see role models that have followed the same route.

Aruako, I always tell you that you speak for yourself, but either by accident or design, you miss a lot of the very malicious words and thinly-veiled toxic opinions of others.

To address your point, it is NOT a “legitimate discussion” when foreign-borns are painted with a broad brush and labeled in the ways mentioned. Ways which strangely you seem not to be aware of.
The legit discussion is that the local league needs attention and that is not and has never been in dispute.
It’s a straw man that keeps on being brought up time and time again.

That the NPFL is not ‘represented’ in the SE is not rocket science.
You can’t on the one hand lament the total neglect and poor state of the NPFL and in the same breath complain that its products are not being invited alongside more or less the cream of our fb players enjoying facilities, training, coaching and career development way in advance of anything we have back home.

Anyway, I believe the much-maligned ‘innit’ boys have proven their legitimacy, whether some die-hards like it or not.
May the naysayers have many more years of cognitive dissonance because, like I said all those years ago when Iwobi stepped across the touch line to enter field for us, it’s only just the beginning.

A tsunami is coming.

It is a legitimate discussion to question the commitment of players that, more often than not, had to be persuaded to represent us. There is nothing malicious there. Malice would be to continue picking on them when they show commitment. And it is not as absurd as you think to advocate for NPFL talent in the SE. Despite the shambles of the NPFL, having more players will only raise its profile. But of course it is not a substitute for fixing the NPFL.

Youve conveniently avoided the broad brush I was specifically referring to in the post you responded to, and which again I referred to when responding to you.
Malicious is to paint them all in the same light just because there are some who have chosen to follow a different path.
It would be nice if you could give a clear, unequivocal view specifically on that which really is the main thrust of this thread’s OP.
Did you read some of the vitriol posted here on Saka when he came on his philanthropic visit to Lagos? He would never have got that had he chosen to play for Naija.

But some can’t even leave it at that.
Even those that have chosen us still get stereotyped esp when the goings get tough, simply because they weren’t born in or didn’t grow up in Naija.

I have not supported tarring all foreignplayers with the negative brush - they have added a lot to the SE. And my son is a UK born Nigerian so if he had the ability I would want him in the SE. However, when considering a player that was brought up outside Nigeria, it is legitimate to consider whether they understand what it means to play for Nigeria, and whether they will be committed to the SE. This is because the buzz around an SE game hits more when you are in Nigeria. But it is wrong to keep questioning that commitment on the basis of their foreign upbringing once they have a bad game - that is absolutely wrong.

Aruako

I do not believe that it is simply about that divide of born or not born in Nigeria. It is about an individual. Take Iheanacho, for instance, or Chukwueze, born are born in Nigeria. But do those two give us 110 every time they put on that shirt?

How can you conclude that Iheanacho and Chukwueze do not give their best when playing for Nigeria? Must they run around like headless chickens before they are adjudged to have given their best?
This is so unfair to both players

Dammy,

I can because I have seen them give their best on occasions...... That means they have it but won't give it always. Perhaps, you do not notice. I, however, do. These are simply doing the little things like chasing after balls that those who do not give 110 wont chase after. A classic example is Nigeria's first goal against Cameroon, a few days ago. Do you think it is every player that would have chased down the Cameroonian defender that Vic Osimhen did that gifted us the first goal? That is precisely an example of a 110 player. If you hsave not noticed, please begin to pay attention to those EFFORT SIGNATURES. They matter. Those are precisely 110

[aruako1]

Nigerians are "tribalists" at the core.
Another thread about SE and Foreign-born players?
That this is being discussed, even if benign, is divisive and in bad taste.

It is an excellent and relevant discussion. If all you see is "tribalism", the thread has gone above your head and you should sit it out.

[ANC]

Nigerians are "tribalists" at the core.
Another thread about SE and Foreign-born players?
That this is being discussed, even if benign, is divisive and in bad taste.

It is an excellent and relevant discussion. If all you see is "tribalism", the thread has gone above your head and you should sit it out.

I did not read through the thread, would not stoop that low.
It is a slippery slope, sad you fail to appreciate that.
I see SE players; I dont see foreign born or locally made.

[Tbite]

Judging by the way that ANC is responding, this discussion is a bit futile.

It is a misdirection. Anyway, I am done discussing it as I don't want people like Tonythetigerkiller snitching that I am causing some sort of disturbance.

BUT if people genuinely want me to continue to discuss the issue, I am happy to do so. The matter has nothing whatsoever to do with xenophobia or divisiveness. Nothing whatsoever. Not even remotely close. As in 0.00000000000% in fact, part of my future ideas would involve the Diaspora.

But what I won't play is a game of misdirection. I would much sooner watch paint dry. Either people want to debate or they don't. I personally could care less. It is not as if we are making a difference here on ce. Up to you guys.

I will happily break down everything from why this isn't xenophobia and onwards.

[Tbite]

By the same rhetoric, as the world moves towards renewable energy sources, Nigeria must stay prehistoric playing with fossil fuels because there’s petroleum in its soils. Nonsense.

National representation should be just that, an assembly of a nation’s best representing said nation. If all are born and bred in diaspora and brimming with all the comparative advantage of their ajebuttering so be it. If they’re better, more adept, accomplished, spread the butter over all the agege till every loaf looks like a croissant. Who cares. There is no room for sentiment in pursuit of success. If the romanticised team of Roys of the Rovers is desired, then establish the infrastructure to achieve it. That, brethren is more than ramshackle academies and dust laden fields of dubious invoicing. Health, welfare, education. Build a society that serves sporting industry.

Again, one draws attention to England’s attempt at building sporting legacy. Huge investment in bricks and mortar, new roads, stadia, sporting facilities, housing and housing schemes, to endorse an Olympic bid. A countrywide search for talent, extension of PE and Sports related activity served by national curricula.

Huge bursaries, subsidies and scholarships to support talent and aid their sidestep of distraction due to socioeconomic circumstances.

Governmental food strategies improving awareness on healthy eating, increasing access to nutrition for low income households, sugar taxes and levies on foods of such ilk.

The surge in public-private partnerships to increase availability of sporting facilities nationwide. The list is endless. It’s more than building a building, it’s building a whole social system. The proceeds record Olympic medal hauls, gold medalists/world records across multiple disciplines. In international football, success across myriad age grades.

Sadly, even the investment in the female game in England far and away exceeds all being done in arguably are national sport.

In truth, the above effort is inconceivable, but if there’s a way to benefit from their efforts, let it be maximal.

Well said.
Not really arguable but they will argue anyway - often with a straw-man: “Oh, why don’t you people want to develop the local leagues and a credible youth program?”
“Why don’t you people want to give the local players an equal chance in the SE?”

I have a counter for this as well. Just let me know if I am permitted to respond. This afcon is a good thing for Nigeria, and I don't think we should be bringing any negative energy here. I think the topic can be discussed in a positive and critical manner but if it can't be discussed in that manner then I would rather not discuss it at all. I don't want us fighting each other when we should be jovial.

The other problem is that there are a multitude of ideas here and the weakest arguments or positions are being used to undermine others. It is a conflationary environment.

A lot of things need to be parsed. I.e. what exactly is being argued, who is arguing what.

What I see so far is a very messy thread. For now I have to stay out of it. I think more harm than good is being done here.

[spastic]

It's called globalization. We never see natin. In 3 generations, u go begin see blond haired English boys with "Ajayi" as their last name playing for the SE. If Nigeria develops, then the NPFL will be a destination league for even European players.

We don get one already for Falcons.

A blonde English Boy?

[Enugu II]

This is a very complicated topic.

I have read some brilliant articles on the subject, covering both sides of the argument, and I mean VERY sophisticated articles with tons of research, and even those seem to not resolve the issue.

From what I can see. There are a multitude of factors at play yet. This is pretty much as complex an issue

I am on my famed mobile phone where I don't like framing my arguments. So I'll do this messily.

1) The first facet is that it is the best playing the best
2) but even the above is lazy, because the theoretical pool of talent in Nigeria will VASTLY surpass anything that you would ever find in Europe. So essentially if there is any period where the pool in Europe is substantial, it means Nigeria as a nation is doing something wrong.
3) This is not a simple assertion, because participation rates and the culture of the game is actually BIGGER in Nigeria than in Europe. It is an infrastructural and systemic failure.
4) but at the same time it intersects with the wicked problem of neo-colonialism and globalisation. These are the offspring of professionals who in all reality should mostly never have found their way to Europe in the first instance. It is then a reversal of a brain drain. A positive offshoot of an initially negative migratory drive.

I can go on about the facets of the issue. But I will conclude by raising an important point, YES the different dimensions can and are contradicting one another. While we can simply say that this is the best we have for now. This is likely a case where success will breed failure. The more successful we become with this model, the more the rot in Nigerian football will fester, and yes prominent people in Nigerian football have raised the issue.

Morocco has actually taken the issue more seriously and they built an impressive academy in Sale, where at least three critical players have come from. But even they are likely scratching the issue lightly.

This by the way is not a Nigerian issue. Perhaps it explains why there have been so many upsets in this tournament. Around 30% otnthe players in this tournament are apparently European born. I have not corroborated myself, but what that reflects, on a slightly unrelated note is that the teams of today are not exactly the teams we think we know. That would explain the apparent incongruity in expectations.

You cannot look at any particular team and think that you understand their structure and history, because it has been upended.

This is actually pretty conclusive. It doesn't mean that this is simply a case of a few players opting for a change in their plans as FIFA might have thought when they paved the way for this process. This is actually an entire continent realising that its infrastructure is inadequate and using the necolonial connection to bridge the gap.

I will say this is fine, but it cannot be a short-sighted adventure. This pattern must in someway circle back to how to develop thr game in Africa. I have stayed this before and people on here scoffed at it.

What I know for certain, is that let's say that in 15 years time, the issue has been taken seriously. You would not possibly see 30% of the continents championship participants coming from a relatively small diaspora.

It is akin to saying that 30% of Dambe fighters will come from a small diaspora when both the population and culture of interest in the genre is many times larger at home. It makes no sense.

I do not propose that we shun any such players. That would be a foolish way of cheapening my argument. What I am saying is that the federations in Africa do now have a monumental task in front of them to not abandon those raised in the continent.

It is a matter of colossal urgency requiring billions of dollars of investment.
The reality is that we have new opportunities and connections with the diaspora now, and that is great, but the rate of that connection must be surpasse by the fervour to develop the game in Africa.

Think about what Morocco have tried to accomplish in Sale, but many fold greater. I don't think this is a small matter, and I suspect that if FIFA have any semblance of intelligence and integrity, they will in fact be the catalyst the project themselves.

It is highly unlikely that any well meaning administrator would come to the conclusions that the game in Africa can be abandoned.

Tbite,

Are you sure that people would even want to read your piece? Some have their minds CLOSED to new thinking or views that challenge their thought.

What you have written is very important and not just based on an outlandish write up, without rationalized thinking. It is an idea like this that our administrators need to carefully review. It is based on logic but requires someone who can deeply examine and question current beliefs about talent.

If we want to really optimize Nigerian talent base -- home and abroad -- what you laid out is the way to go. Some of the issues have been regularly broached here but some have simply turned a deaf ear. They are focused on simply getting boys grown in overseas academies even if they may be those not currently rated A national team talents in Europe. They are perceived to be better than seeking how to optimize a talent base that is possible with the demographic calculations that you insinuate. Some do not even want to consider it as a way to blend the best possible talents out there -- home and abroad. Instead, they want to stick only to those abroad.

It is problematic but rather than widen our thoughts and think about possibilities and a greater NT in the near future, we want to settle with what is left for us by the scouts of European national teams even when we could do much better by utilizing talents wherever they may be, both home and abroad. Just a minor example and this really is just scratching the surface -- the location of a goalkeeper today in South Africa was forced after years of attempting to force feed European based talent as the best that Nigeria can unearth. Yet, today we have a goalkeeper that is not from Europe and in my opinion may not even be the best possible goalkeeper that Nigeria can locate if only Nigeria will open its search to wider base of talented footballers.

[Dammy]

This is a very complicated topic.

I have read some brilliant articles on the subject, covering both sides of the argument, and I mean VERY sophisticated articles with tons of research, and even those seem to not resolve the issue.

From what I can see. There are a multitude of factors at play yet. This is pretty much as complex an issue

I am on my famed mobile phone where I don't like framing my arguments. So I'll do this messily.

1) The first facet is that it is the best playing the best
2) but even the above is lazy, because the theoretical pool of talent in Nigeria will VASTLY surpass anything that you would ever find in Europe. So essentially if there is any period where the pool in Europe is substantial, it means Nigeria as a nation is doing something wrong.
3) This is not a simple assertion, because participation rates and the culture of the game is actually BIGGER in Nigeria than in Europe. It is an infrastructural and systemic failure.
4) but at the same time it intersects with the wicked problem of neo-colonialism and globalisation. These are the offspring of professionals who in all reality should mostly never have found their way to Europe in the first instance. It is then a reversal of a brain drain. A positive offshoot of an initially negative migratory drive.

I can go on about the facets of the issue. But I will conclude by raising an important point, YES the different dimensions can and are contradicting one another. While we can simply say that this is the best we have for now. This is likely a case where success will breed failure. The more successful we become with this model, the more the rot in Nigerian football will fester, and yes prominent people in Nigerian football have raised the issue.

Morocco has actually taken the issue more seriously and they built an impressive academy in Sale, where at least three critical players have come from. But even they are likely scratching the issue lightly.

This by the way is not a Nigerian issue. Perhaps it explains why there have been so many upsets in this tournament. Around 30% otnthe players in this tournament are apparently European born. I have not corroborated myself, but what that reflects, on a slightly unrelated note is that the teams of today are not exactly the teams we think we know. That would explain the apparent incongruity in expectations.

You cannot look at any particular team and think that you understand their structure and history, because it has been upended.

This is actually pretty conclusive. It doesn't mean that this is simply a case of a few players opting for a change in their plans as FIFA might have thought when they paved the way for this process. This is actually an entire continent realising that its infrastructure is inadequate and using the necolonial connection to bridge the gap.

I will say this is fine, but it cannot be a short-sighted adventure. This pattern must in someway circle back to how to develop thr game in Africa. I have stayed this before and people on here scoffed at it.

What I know for certain, is that let's say that in 15 years time, the issue has been taken seriously. You would not possibly see 30% of the continents championship participants coming from a relatively small diaspora.

It is akin to saying that 30% of Dambe fighters will come from a small diaspora when both the population and culture of interest in the genre is many times larger at home. It makes no sense.

I do not propose that we shun any such players. That would be a foolish way of cheapening my argument. What I am saying is that the federations in Africa do now have a monumental task in front of them to not abandon those raised in the continent.

It is a matter of colossal urgency requiring billions of dollars of investment.
The reality is that we have new opportunities and connections with the diaspora now, and that is great, but the rate of that connection must be surpasse by the fervour to develop the game in Africa.

Think about what Morocco have tried to accomplish in Sale, but many fold greater. I don't think this is a small matter, and I suspect that if FIFA have any semblance of intelligence and integrity, they will in fact be the catalyst the project themselves.

It is highly unlikely that any well meaning administrator would come to the conclusions that the game in Africa can be abandoned.

Tbite,

Are you sure that people would even want to read your piece? Some have their minds CLOSED to new thinking or views that challenge their thought.

What you have written is very important and not just based on an outlandish write up, without rationalized thinking. It is an idea like this that our administrators need to carefully review. It is based on logic but requires someone who can deeply examine and question current beliefs about talent.

If we want to really optimize Nigerian talent base -- home and abroad -- what you laid out is the way to go. Some of the issues have been regularly broached here but some have simply turned a deaf ear. They are focused on simply getting boys grown in overseas academies even if they may be those not currently rated A national team talents in Europe. They are perceived to be better than seeking how to optimize a talent base that is possible with the demographic calculations that you insinuate. Some do not even want to consider it as a way to blend the best possible talents out there -- home and abroad. Instead, they want to stick only to those abroad.

It is problematic but rather than widen our thoughts and think about possibilities and a greater NT in the near future, we want to settle with what is left for us by the scouts of European national teams even when we could do much better by utilizing talents wherever they may be, both home and abroad. Just a minor example and this really is just scratching the surface -- the location of a goalkeeper today in South Africa was forced after years of attempting to force feed European based talent as the best that Nigeria can unearth. Yet, today we have a goalkeeper that is not from Europe and in my opinion may not even be the best possible goalkeeper that Nigeria can locate if only Nigeria will open its search to wider base of talented footballers.

Wow! This is ironic!

[Damunk]

It's called globalization. We never see natin. In 3 generations, u go begin see blond haired English boys with "Ajayi" as their last name playing for the SE. If Nigeria develops, then the NPFL will be a destination league for even European players.

We don get one already for Falcons.

A blonde English Boy?

Oops!
Ashleigh would be shocked to hear this!