Louis Van Gaal Not At Fault for Man Utd Problems

[cic old boy]

I do not agree with the bolded text. He now manages a mediocre squad, but that was his doing (by getting rid of his best players). LVG had a team with:

1) The best winger in the world not called Ronaldo or Messi, who had just played in the World Cup final and who had just won the Champions League (and was MOTM in the CL final).

2) A player who was Chelsea's best player and two-time consecutive player of the year.

3) A player who was Arsenal's best player and the EPL top scorer two seasons earlier.

4) Some of the best young English players in the country (Welbeck, Smalling, Keane, Jones, Zaha).

1. Key phrase "took over". He signed Di Maria, who didn't settle. I acknowledged that when I said he had hits and misses in the transfer market.

2. Mata is the definition of mediocre at Manure with his Mikelele-like sideways passing up responsibility.

3. Robin Van Pussie possibly only had one good season at Manure - mediocre ever since. That's why he is in a mediocre league now.

4. Those young players are overrated, overpaid and very much mediocre.

[wiseone]

The same Mata you call "mediocre" has scored 22 goals in about 80 games for Man Utd. In his time at Man Utd I do not think any EPL midfielder has scored more goals than he has (not even Hazard or Fabregas). Scoring 1 goal every 4 games is pretty impressive for a midfielder.

Some detail on the 5 young current/former Man Utd players you called "overrated, overpaid and very much mediocre" - 3 of them are regular members of the England team..the same England team that just qualified for the Euros unbeaten with a 100% record after winning all of their qualifying games home and away. They are also members of two Champions League teams, and the teams currently in 3 and 5th position in the EPL. The other 2 play for England U21s. Not bad for "mediocre" players.

The squad that LVG inherited had De Gea (best GK in the world - whom he nearly sold!), Evra, Rooney, RVP, Carrick, Nani, Mata (Chelsea's best player), Fellaini (Everton's best player). When you inherit Alex Ferguson's title winning squad AND the best players from your biggest rivals like Chelsea and Everton, you should not really complain about having a weak squad.

I do not agree with the bolded text. He now manages a mediocre squad, but that was his doing (by getting rid of his best players). LVG had a team with:

1) The best winger in the world not called Ronaldo or Messi, who had just played in the World Cup final and who had just won the Champions League (and was MOTM in the CL final).

2) A player who was Chelsea's best player and two-time consecutive player of the year.

3) A player who was Arsenal's best player and the EPL top scorer two seasons earlier.

4) Some of the best young English players in the country (Welbeck, Smalling, Keane, Jones, Zaha).

1. Key phrase "took over". He signed Di Maria, who didn't settle. I acknowledged that when I said he had hits and misses in the transfer market.

2. Mata is the definition of mediocre at Manure with his Mikelele-like sideways passing up responsibility.

3. Robin Van Pussie possibly only had one good season at Manure - mediocre ever since. That's why he is in a mediocre league now.

4. Those young players are overrated, overpaid and very much mediocre.

[felarey]

What seems to be unknown here is Utd were facing relegation when Fergie took over. Two managers with similar pedigree employed under very different circumstances with different resources.

[wiseone]

Exactly. Man Utd were in the bottom 3 - facing relegation into the old Second Division when Ferguson took over. He lost his first game 0-2 to Oxford Utd. Oxford Utd are no longer even a professional football club! Moyes took over the reigning champions. LVG got 250 million to spend. Imagine what Fergie could have done if the Glazers allowed him to spend that much in 2 years.

What seems to be unknown here is Utd were facing relegation when Fergie took over. Two managers with similar pedigree employed under very different circumstances with different resources.

[cic old boy]

The same Mata you call "mediocre" has scored 22 goals in about 80 games for Man Utd. In his time at Man Utd I do not think any EPL midfielder has scored more goals than he has (not even Hazard or Fabregas). Scoring 1 goal every 4 games is pretty impressive for a midfielder.

Some detail on the 5 young current/former Man Utd players you called "overrated, overpaid and very much mediocre" - 3 of them are regular members of the England team..the same England team that just qualified for the Euros unbeaten with a 100% record after winning all of their qualifying games home and away. They are also members of two Champions League teams, and the teams currently in 3 and 5th position in the EPL. The other 2 play for England U21s. Not bad for "mediocre" players.

The squad that LVG inherited had De Gea (best GK in the world - whom he nearly sold!), Evra, Rooney, RVP, Carrick, Nani, Mata (Chelsea's best player), Fellaini (Everton's best player). When you nherit Alex Ferguson's title winning squad AND the best players from your biggest rivals like Chelsea and Everton, you should not really complain about having a weak squad.

Mata is very mediocre. I've never seen him run a game. He is not in Hazard or Fab's league (and I don't think much of Fab).

The England team is very mediocre. Their Euros group was worse than mediocre.

Only in your dreams is De Gea the best goalie in the world! He is not even the best in the EPL - Courtois. He is good, but not that good. Best goalie is Neuer. Evra was once a good player. He was on his last legs when Van Gaal arrived. Roon is now very average. Carrick and Nani are very average. The least said about Fellaini the better! Since when did Everton become Manure's biggest rivals? When Moi-Moyes brought down Manure to mid-table mediocrity?

[cic old boy]

Edwin van der Sar has told the Oxford Union that LVG is the best manager he ever worked with! Whaaaat? Not Sir Ayatollah??? Blasphemy! Off with his head! Sacrilege!

[Vincent.]

Exactly. Man Utd were on the bottom 3 - facing relegation into the old Second Division when Ferguson took over. He lost his first game 0-2 to Oxford Utd. Oxford Utd are no longer even a professional football club! Moyes took over the reigning champions. LVG got 250 million to spend. Imagine what Fergie could have done if the Glazers allowed him to spend that much in 2 years.

What seems to be unknown here is Utd were facing relegation when Fergie took over. Two managers with similar pedigree employed under very different circumstances with different resources.

Ferguson also had a difficult start and was given a few years to build his team.

Moyes took over the reigning champions.

A champion team with its backbone (RVP, Ferdinand, and Vidic) on their last legs. Ferdinand and Vidic have since retired and RVP can't get a regular game in Turkey.Rooney is 40% the player he used to be.

LVG got 250 million to spend

250 million on about 12 players is actually not a lot, specially considering that a significant proportion of that money was recouped from the sale of Di Maria. It boils down to less than 20 million per player, which is not a lot. Also not included in the equation is the amount recouped from the sale of several surplus players (33 players at all levels, according to a report).

Why did LVG have to buy so many players? Because the squad needed a complete overhaul.

[tfco]

Exactly. Man Utd were on the bottom 3 - facing relegation into the old Second Division when Ferguson took over. He lost his first game 0-2 to Oxford Utd. Oxford Utd are no longer even a professional football club! Moyes took over the reigning champions. LVG got 250 million to spend. Imagine what Fergie could have done if the Glazers allowed him to spend that much in 2 years.

What seems to be unknown here is Utd were facing relegation when Fergie took over. Two managers with similar pedigree employed under very different circumstances with different resources.

LVG haters. Please quote the net spend, not the 250M you keep reading in the media.

Net spend is 129M, still a lot.

We have played crap football at times this year, but i still remain optimistic that we will play very attractive football with the personnel LVG has.

[wiseone]

Hi Vincent, to respond to your points:

A champion team with its backbone (RVP, Ferdinand, and Vidic) on their last legs. Ferdinand and Vidic have since retired and RVP can't get a regular game in Turkey.Rooney is 40% the player he used to be.

...but that team that was "on its last legs" won the EPL by 11 points with over a month to spare. Did the squad drastically age in the few weeks in between Ferguson retiring and Moyes taking over?

Yes, "Ferguson had a difficult start" as you put it. However this needs context. He took a team that was in the bottom 3 to a 2nd place finish in his second season! That is very impressive. The modern day equivalent of that is what Ranieri has done with Leicester.

Moyes took the runaway reigning champions to 7th place. LVG's win ratio and stats are about the same as Moyes (worse in some cases).

Why did LVG have to buy so many players? Because the squad needed a complete overhaul.

-Some of the players he sold have looked very impressive at their new clubs (Hernandez, Nani, Di Maria, Rafael, Fletcher, Welbeck, Zaha). Some players definitely needed to be moved on (Anderson, Evans). However was it really necessary to sell so many players? Especially as the team has struggled to find experienced back-up in the midst of the injury crisis this season. LVG cut the squad too deeply. Before everyone starts screaming about how great Rashford has been, some of the players that LVG brought in to replace the departed players have been worse than those they were meant to replace. In some cases, he just sold players and did not bother to replace them!

[Vincent.]

Hi Vincent, to respond to your points:

A champion team with its backbone (RVP, Ferdinand, and Vidic) on their last legs. Ferdinand and Vidic have since retired and RVP can't get a regular game in Turkey.Rooney is 40% the player he used to be.

...but that team that was "on its last legs" won the EPL by 11 points with over a month to spare. Did the squad drastically age in the few weeks in between Ferguson retiring and Moyes taking over?

Yes, "Ferguson had a difficult start" as you put it. However this needs context. He took a team that was in the bottom 3 to a 2nd place finish in his second season! That is very impressive. The modern day equivalent of that is what Ranieri has done with Leicester.

Moyes took the runaway reigning champions to 7th place. LVG's win ratio and stats are about the same as Moyes (worse in some cases).

Why did LVG have to buy so many players? Because the squad needed a complete overhaul.

-Some of the players he sold have looked very impressive at their new clubs (Hernandez, Nani, Di Maria, Rafael, Fletcher, Welbeck, Zaha). Some players definitely needed to be moved on (Anderson, Evans). However was it really necessary to sell so many players? Especially as the team has struggled to find experienced back-up in the midst of the injury crisis this season. LVG cut the squad too deeply. Before everyone starts screaming about how great Rashford has been, some of the players that LVG brought in to replace the departed players have been worse than those they were meant to replace. In some cases, he just sold players and did not bother to replace them!

1. I would not blame LVG for Di Maria's departure. He did not want to leave Real Madrid, but he was forced out. His preferred destination was PSG, but he ended up Man United because PSG could not buy him due to FFP rules. The problem is he never really settled in Manchester because he did not want to be there in the first place. As soon as PSG came back for him, he was ready to walk all the way to Paris.

2. Hernandez, Nani, Rafael, Fletcher, Zaha are doing well because they found their levels. Hernandez, Nani, Zaha were basically substitutes at man United while Rafael, Fletcher, and (maybe) Welbeck would also have been substitutes if they had remained. LVG's point is that he always prefers to work with small squads because this allows him to give opportunities to youth players. We can argue whether he was wrong or right, but that is standard practice at clubs that prioritize their youth programs.

Barcelona is a good example: there are very few old players sitting on the bench because they block the path of youth players. Every youth player dreams of graduating to the first team, but when they see that their paths are blocked, they simply leave. For example, Cesc left for Arsenal because he thought he had no chance of getting through. Thiago left for Bayern Munich because Cesc, Iniesta, Xavi, and Busquets were ahead of him.

If the model is to have a strong youth production line, then LVG did the right thing. If the model is to put stars on the bench, then you get the Chelsea model where more than 20 youth players are sent out on loan because their paths to the first team re blocked. The only mistake LVG made is that he did not anticipate so many players being injured at the same time...

[felarey]

Exactly. Man Utd were on the bottom 3 - facing relegation into the old Second Division when Ferguson took over. He lost his first game 0-2 to Oxford Utd. Oxford Utd are no longer even a professional football club! Moyes took over the reigning champions. LVG got 250 million to spend. Imagine what Fergie could have done if the Glazers allowed him to spend that much in 2 years.

What seems to be unknown here is Utd were facing relegation when Fergie took over. Two managers with similar pedigree employed under very different circumstances with different resources.

LVG haters. Please quote the net spend, not the 250M you keep reading in the media.

Net spend is 129M, still a lot.

We have played crap football at times this year, but i still remain optimistic that we will play very attractive football with the personnel LVG has.

Don't call those that criticize the manager haters. Just because you choose not to albeit while saying he's put out crap football does not justify your hopeful 'I told u so' dats in waiting. I'm sure everyone connected with Utd including ex players and d executives want LVG to do well and aren't just haters.

[felarey]

Hi Vincent, to respond to your points:

A champion team with its backbone (RVP, Ferdinand, and Vidic) on their last legs. Ferdinand and Vidic have since retired and RVP can't get a regular game in Turkey.Rooney is 40% the player he used to be.

...but that team that was "on its last legs" won the EPL by 11 points with over a month to spare. Did the squad drastically age in the few weeks in between Ferguson retiring and Moyes taking over?

Yes, "Ferguson had a difficult start" as you put it. However this needs context. He took a team that was in the bottom 3 to a 2nd place finish in his second season! That is very impressive. The modern day equivalent of that is what Ranieri has done with Leicester.

Moyes took the runaway reigning champions to 7th place. LVG's win ratio and stats are about the same as Moyes (worse in some cases).

Why did LVG have to buy so many players? Because the squad needed a complete overhaul.

-Some of the players he sold have looked very impressive at their new clubs (Hernandez, Nani, Di Maria, Rafael, Fletcher, Welbeck, Zaha). Some players definitely needed to be moved on (Anderson, Evans). However was it really necessary to sell so many players? Especially as the team has struggled to find experienced back-up in the midst of the injury crisis this season. LVG cut the squad too deeply. Before everyone starts screaming about how great Rashford has been, some of the players that LVG brought in to replace the departed players have been worse than those they were meant to replace. In some cases, he just sold players and did not bother to replace them!

1. I would not blame LVG for Di Maria's departure. He did not want to leave Real Madrid, but he was forced out. His preferred destination was PSG, but he ended up Man United because PSG could not buy him due to FFP rules. The problem is he never really settled in Manchester because he did not want to be there in the first place. As soon as PSG came back for him, he was ready to walk all the way to Paris.

2. Hernandez, Nani, Rafael, Fletcher, Zaha are doing well because they found their levels. Hernandez, Nani, Zaha were basically substitutes at man United while Rafael, Fletcher, and (maybe) Welbeck would also have been substitutes if they had remained. LVG's point is that he always prefers to work with small squads because this allows him to give opportunities to youth players. We can argue whether he was wrong or right, but that is standard practice at clubs that prioritize their youth programs.

Barcelona is a good example: there are very few old players sitting on the bench because they block the path of youth players. Every youth player dreams of graduating to the first team, but when they see that their paths are blocked, they simply leave. For example, Cesc left for Arsenal because he thought he had no chance of getting through. Thiago left for Bayern Munich because Cesc, Iniesta, Xavi, and Busquets were ahead of him.

If the model is to have a strong youth production line, then LVG did the right thing. If the model is to put stars on the bench, then you get the Chelsea model where more than 20 youth players are sent out on loan because their paths to the first team re blocked. The only mistake LVG made is that he did not anticipate so many players being injured at the same time...

I see u can't hide the bias, you're so desperate to defend your former boss. Your comment on Di Maria is so ridiculous it sounds like something you'd hear amongst ..... Ahhhh nevamind...

[Vincent.]

Hi Vincent, to respond to your points:

A champion team with its backbone (RVP, Ferdinand, and Vidic) on their last legs. Ferdinand and Vidic have since retired and RVP can't get a regular game in Turkey.Rooney is 40% the player he used to be.

...but that team that was "on its last legs" won the EPL by 11 points with over a month to spare. Did the squad drastically age in the few weeks in between Ferguson retiring and Moyes taking over?

Yes, "Ferguson had a difficult start" as you put it. However this needs context. He took a team that was in the bottom 3 to a 2nd place finish in his second season! That is very impressive. The modern day equivalent of that is what Ranieri has done with Leicester.

Moyes took the runaway reigning champions to 7th place. LVG's win ratio and stats are about the same as Moyes (worse in some cases).

Why did LVG have to buy so many players? Because the squad needed a complete overhaul.

-Some of the players he sold have looked very impressive at their new clubs (Hernandez, Nani, Di Maria, Rafael, Fletcher, Welbeck, Zaha). Some players definitely needed to be moved on (Anderson, Evans). However was it really necessary to sell so many players? Especially as the team has struggled to find experienced back-up in the midst of the injury crisis this season. LVG cut the squad too deeply. Before everyone starts screaming about how great Rashford has been, some of the players that LVG brought in to replace the departed players have been worse than those they were meant to replace. In some cases, he just sold players and did not bother to replace them!

1. I would not blame LVG for Di Maria's departure. He did not want to leave Real Madrid, but he was forced out. His preferred destination was PSG, but he ended up Man United because PSG could not buy him due to FFP rules. The problem is he never really settled in Manchester because he did not want to be there in the first place. As soon as PSG came back for him, he was ready to walk all the way to Paris.

2. Hernandez, Nani, Rafael, Fletcher, Zaha are doing well because they found their levels. Hernandez, Nani, Zaha were basically substitutes at man United while Rafael, Fletcher, and (maybe) Welbeck would also have been substitutes if they had remained. LVG's point is that he always prefers to work with small squads because this allows him to give opportunities to youth players. We can argue whether he was wrong or right, but that is standard practice at clubs that prioritize their youth programs.

Barcelona is a good example: there are very few old players sitting on the bench because they block the path of youth players. Every youth player dreams of graduating to the first team, but when they see that their paths are blocked, they simply leave. For example, Cesc left for Arsenal because he thought he had no chance of getting through. Thiago left for Bayern Munich because Cesc, Iniesta, Xavi, and Busquets were ahead of him.

If the model is to have a strong youth production line, then LVG did the right thing. If the model is to put stars on the bench, then you get the Chelsea model where more than 20 youth players are sent out on loan because their paths to the first team re blocked. The only mistake LVG made is that he did not anticipate so many players being injured at the same time...

I see u can't hide the bias, you're so desperate to defend your former boss. Your comment on Di Maria is so ridiculous it sounds like something you'd hear amongst ..... Ahhhh nevamind...

Why would I be desperate to defend him? I am just repeating what he said and explaining the reasoning behind it. It is the same policy practiced at Barca and other teams that take their youth systems seriously.

As for Di Maria, it is not ridiculous. It was widely reported in the Spanish press that his preferred destination was PSG. The only accusation you can make against LVG is that he did not block Di Maria's move to PSG, but why block the exit of a player who does not want to be there?

[felarey]

Hi Vincent, to respond to your points:

A champion team with its backbone (RVP, Ferdinand, and Vidic) on their last legs. Ferdinand and Vidic have since retired and RVP can't get a regular game in Turkey.Rooney is 40% the player he used to be.

...but that team that was "on its last legs" won the EPL by 11 points with over a month to spare. Did the squad drastically age in the few weeks in between Ferguson retiring and Moyes taking over?

Yes, "Ferguson had a difficult start" as you put it. However this needs context. He took a team that was in the bottom 3 to a 2nd place finish in his second season! That is very impressive. The modern day equivalent of that is what Ranieri has done with Leicester.

Moyes took the runaway reigning champions to 7th place. LVG's win ratio and stats are about the same as Moyes (worse in some cases).

Why did LVG have to buy so many players? Because the squad needed a complete overhaul.

-Some of the players he sold have looked very impressive at their new clubs (Hernandez, Nani, Di Maria, Rafael, Fletcher, Welbeck, Zaha). Some players definitely needed to be moved on (Anderson, Evans). However was it really necessary to sell so many players? Especially as the team has struggled to find experienced back-up in the midst of the injury crisis this season. LVG cut the squad too deeply. Before everyone starts screaming about how great Rashford has been, some of the players that LVG brought in to replace the departed players have been worse than those they were meant to replace. In some cases, he just sold players and did not bother to replace them!

1. I would not blame LVG for Di Maria's departure. He did not want to leave Real Madrid, but he was forced out. His preferred destination was PSG, but he ended up Man United because PSG could not buy him due to FFP rules. The problem is he never really settled in Manchester because he did not want to be there in the first place. As soon as PSG came back for him, he was ready to walk all the way to Paris.

2. Hernandez, Nani, Rafael, Fletcher, Zaha are doing well because they found their levels. Hernandez, Nani, Zaha were basically substitutes at man United while Rafael, Fletcher, and (maybe) Welbeck would also have been substitutes if they had remained. LVG's point is that he always prefers to work with small squads because this allows him to give opportunities to youth players. We can argue whether he was wrong or right, but that is standard practice at clubs that prioritize their youth programs.

Barcelona is a good example: there are very few old players sitting on the bench because they block the path of youth players. Every youth player dreams of graduating to the first team, but when they see that their paths are blocked, they simply leave. For example, Cesc left for Arsenal because he thought he had no chance of getting through. Thiago left for Bayern Munich because Cesc, Iniesta, Xavi, and Busquets were ahead of him.

If the model is to have a strong youth production line, then LVG did the right thing. If the model is to put stars on the bench, then you get the Chelsea model where more than 20 youth players are sent out on loan because their paths to the first team re blocked. The only mistake LVG made is that he did not anticipate so many players being injured at the same time...

I see u can't hide the bias, you're so desperate to defend your former boss. Your comment on Di Maria is so ridiculous it sounds like something you'd hear amongst ..... Ahhhh nevamind...

Why would I be desperate to defend him? I am just repeating what he said and explaining the reasoning behind it. It is the same policy practiced at Barca and other teams that take their youth systems seriously.

As for Di Maria, it is not ridiculous. It was widely reported in the Spanish press that his preferred destination was PSG. The only accusation you can make against LVG is that he did not block Di Maria's move to PSG, but why block the exit of a player who does not want to be there?

I would have thot your next retort would be 'proving he didn't want to go there' and 'he didn't want to be there to counter the bias allegation. When an English club buys a player from Spain, we hear he didn't want to be there. He was forced out, blah blah was his preferred destination. Complex coming through.

[Kabalega]

Hi Vincent, to respond to your points:

A champion team with its backbone (RVP, Ferdinand, and Vidic) on their last legs. Ferdinand and Vidic have since retired and RVP can't get a regular game in Turkey.Rooney is 40% the player he used to be.

...but that team that was "on its last legs" won the EPL by 11 points with over a month to spare. Did the squad drastically age in the few weeks in between Ferguson retiring and Moyes taking over?

Yes, "Ferguson had a difficult start" as you put it. However this needs context. He took a team that was in the bottom 3 to a 2nd place finish in his second season! That is very impressive. The modern day equivalent of that is what Ranieri has done with Leicester.

Moyes took the runaway reigning champions to 7th place. LVG's win ratio and stats are about the same as Moyes (worse in some cases).

Why did LVG have to buy so many players? Because the squad needed a complete overhaul.

-Some of the players he sold have looked very impressive at their new clubs (Hernandez, Nani, Di Maria, Rafael, Fletcher, Welbeck, Zaha). Some players definitely needed to be moved on (Anderson, Evans). However was it really necessary to sell so many players? Especially as the team has struggled to find experienced back-up in the midst of the injury crisis this season. LVG cut the squad too deeply. Before everyone starts screaming about how great Rashford has been, some of the players that LVG brought in to replace the departed players have been worse than those they were meant to replace. In some cases, he just sold players and did not bother to replace them!

1. I would not blame LVG for Di Maria's departure. He did not want to leave Real Madrid, but he was forced out. His preferred destination was PSG, but he ended up Man United because PSG could not buy him due to FFP rules. The problem is he never really settled in Manchester because he did not want to be there in the first place. As soon as PSG came back for him, he was ready to walk all the way to Paris.

2. Hernandez, Nani, Rafael, Fletcher, Zaha are doing well because they found their levels. Hernandez, Nani, Zaha were basically substitutes at man United while Rafael, Fletcher, and (maybe) Welbeck would also have been substitutes if they had remained. LVG's point is that he always prefers to work with small squads because this allows him to give opportunities to youth players. We can argue whether he was wrong or right, but that is standard practice at clubs that prioritize their youth programs.

Barcelona is a good example: there are very few old players sitting on the bench because they block the path of youth players. Every youth player dreams of graduating to the first team, but when they see that their paths are blocked, they simply leave. For example, Cesc left for Arsenal because he thought he had no chance of getting through. Thiago left for Bayern Munich because Cesc, Iniesta, Xavi, and Busquets were ahead of him.

If the model is to have a strong youth production line, then LVG did the right thing. If the model is to put stars on the bench, then you get the Chelsea model where more than 20 youth players are sent out on loan because their paths to the first team re blocked. The only mistake LVG made is that he did not anticipate so many players being injured at the same time...

I see u can't hide the bias, you're so desperate to defend your former boss. Your comment on Di Maria is so ridiculous it sounds like something you'd hear amongst ..... Ahhhh nevamind...

Why would I be desperate to defend him? I am just repeating what he said and explaining the reasoning behind it. It is the same policy practiced at Barca and other teams that take their youth systems seriously.

As for Di Maria, it is not ridiculous. It was widely reported in the Spanish press that his preferred destination was PSG. The only accusation you can make against LVG is that he did not block Di Maria's move to PSG, but why block the exit of a player who does not want to be there?

I would have thot your next retort would be 'proving he didn't want to go there' and 'he didn't want to be there to counter the bias allegation. When an English club buys a player from Spain, we hear he didn't want to be there. He was forced out, blah blah was his preferred destination. Complex coming through.

I thought that Di Maria left because thugs broke into his house and wifey just couldn't settle after that....?

[Vincent.]

Hi Vincent, to respond to your points:

A champion team with its backbone (RVP, Ferdinand, and Vidic) on their last legs. Ferdinand and Vidic have since retired and RVP can't get a regular game in Turkey.Rooney is 40% the player he used to be.

...but that team that was "on its last legs" won the EPL by 11 points with over a month to spare. Did the squad drastically age in the few weeks in between Ferguson retiring and Moyes taking over?

Yes, "Ferguson had a difficult start" as you put it. However this needs context. He took a team that was in the bottom 3 to a 2nd place finish in his second season! That is very impressive. The modern day equivalent of that is what Ranieri has done with Leicester.

Moyes took the runaway reigning champions to 7th place. LVG's win ratio and stats are about the same as Moyes (worse in some cases).

Why did LVG have to buy so many players? Because the squad needed a complete overhaul.

-Some of the players he sold have looked very impressive at their new clubs (Hernandez, Nani, Di Maria, Rafael, Fletcher, Welbeck, Zaha). Some players definitely needed to be moved on (Anderson, Evans). However was it really necessary to sell so many players? Especially as the team has struggled to find experienced back-up in the midst of the injury crisis this season. LVG cut the squad too deeply. Before everyone starts screaming about how great Rashford has been, some of the players that LVG brought in to replace the departed players have been worse than those they were meant to replace. In some cases, he just sold players and did not bother to replace them!

1. I would not blame LVG for Di Maria's departure. He did not want to leave Real Madrid, but he was forced out. His preferred destination was PSG, but he ended up Man United because PSG could not buy him due to FFP rules. The problem is he never really settled in Manchester because he did not want to be there in the first place. As soon as PSG came back for him, he was ready to walk all the way to Paris.

2. Hernandez, Nani, Rafael, Fletcher, Zaha are doing well because they found their levels. Hernandez, Nani, Zaha were basically substitutes at man United while Rafael, Fletcher, and (maybe) Welbeck would also have been substitutes if they had remained. LVG's point is that he always prefers to work with small squads because this allows him to give opportunities to youth players. We can argue whether he was wrong or right, but that is standard practice at clubs that prioritize their youth programs.

Barcelona is a good example: there are very few old players sitting on the bench because they block the path of youth players. Every youth player dreams of graduating to the first team, but when they see that their paths are blocked, they simply leave. For example, Cesc left for Arsenal because he thought he had no chance of getting through. Thiago left for Bayern Munich because Cesc, Iniesta, Xavi, and Busquets were ahead of him.

If the model is to have a strong youth production line, then LVG did the right thing. If the model is to put stars on the bench, then you get the Chelsea model where more than 20 youth players are sent out on loan because their paths to the first team re blocked. The only mistake LVG made is that he did not anticipate so many players being injured at the same time...

I see u can't hide the bias, you're so desperate to defend your former boss. Your comment on Di Maria is so ridiculous it sounds like something you'd hear amongst ..... Ahhhh nevamind...

Why would I be desperate to defend him? I am just repeating what he said and explaining the reasoning behind it. It is the same policy practiced at Barca and other teams that take their youth systems seriously.

As for Di Maria, it is not ridiculous. It was widely reported in the Spanish press that his preferred destination was PSG. The only accusation you can make against LVG is that he did not block Di Maria's move to PSG, but why block the exit of a player who does not want to be there?

I would have thot your next retort would be 'proving he didn't want to go there' and 'he didn't want to be there to counter the bias allegation. When an English club buys a player from Spain, we hear he didn't want to be there. He was forced out, blah blah was his preferred destination. Complex coming through.

Well, here you go

Man United flop Angel Di Maria claims he only missed out on signing for PSG last summer due to FFP
http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/man-u ... ue-to-ffp/

Di Maria would be a PSG player if it wasn't for FFP - Al-Khelaifi
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892/tra ... for-ffp-al

Angel Di Maria would be at PSG if it wasn't for FFP
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... laifi.html

PSG make bold claim about Man Utd winger Angel di Maria
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... an-9140048

[felarey]

Hi Vincent, to respond to your points:

A champion team with its backbone (RVP, Ferdinand, and Vidic) on their last legs. Ferdinand and Vidic have since retired and RVP can't get a regular game in Turkey.Rooney is 40% the player he used to be.

...but that team that was "on its last legs" won the EPL by 11 points with over a month to spare. Did the squad drastically age in the few weeks in between Ferguson retiring and Moyes taking over?

Yes, "Ferguson had a difficult start" as you put it. However this needs context. He took a team that was in the bottom 3 to a 2nd place finish in his second season! That is very impressive. The modern day equivalent of that is what Ranieri has done with Leicester.

Moyes took the runaway reigning champions to 7th place. LVG's win ratio and stats are about the same as Moyes (worse in some cases).

Why did LVG have to buy so many players? Because the squad needed a complete overhaul.

-Some of the players he sold have looked very impressive at their new clubs (Hernandez, Nani, Di Maria, Rafael, Fletcher, Welbeck, Zaha). Some players definitely needed to be moved on (Anderson, Evans). However was it really necessary to sell so many players? Especially as the team has struggled to find experienced back-up in the midst of the injury crisis this season. LVG cut the squad too deeply. Before everyone starts screaming about how great Rashford has been, some of the players that LVG brought in to replace the departed players have been worse than those they were meant to replace. In some cases, he just sold players and did not bother to replace them!

1. I would not blame LVG for Di Maria's departure. He did not want to leave Real Madrid, but he was forced out. His preferred destination was PSG, but he ended up Man United because PSG could not buy him due to FFP rules. The problem is he never really settled in Manchester because he did not want to be there in the first place. As soon as PSG came back for him, he was ready to walk all the way to Paris.

2. Hernandez, Nani, Rafael, Fletcher, Zaha are doing well because they found their levels. Hernandez, Nani, Zaha were basically substitutes at man United while Rafael, Fletcher, and (maybe) Welbeck would also have been substitutes if they had remained. LVG's point is that he always prefers to work with small squads because this allows him to give opportunities to youth players. We can argue whether he was wrong or right, but that is standard practice at clubs that prioritize their youth programs.

Barcelona is a good example: there are very few old players sitting on the bench because they block the path of youth players. Every youth player dreams of graduating to the first team, but when they see that their paths are blocked, they simply leave. For example, Cesc left for Arsenal because he thought he had no chance of getting through. Thiago left for Bayern Munich because Cesc, Iniesta, Xavi, and Busquets were ahead of him.

If the model is to have a strong youth production line, then LVG did the right thing. If the model is to put stars on the bench, then you get the Chelsea model where more than 20 youth players are sent out on loan because their paths to the first team re blocked. The only mistake LVG made is that he did not anticipate so many players being injured at the same time...

I see u can't hide the bias, you're so desperate to defend your former boss. Your comment on Di Maria is so ridiculous it sounds like something you'd hear amongst ..... Ahhhh nevamind...

Why would I be desperate to defend him? I am just repeating what he said and explaining the reasoning behind it. It is the same policy practiced at Barca and other teams that take their youth systems seriously.

As for Di Maria, it is not ridiculous. It was widely reported in the Spanish press that his preferred destination was PSG. The only accusation you can make against LVG is that he did not block Di Maria's move to PSG, but why block the exit of a player who does not want to be there?

I would have thot your next retort would be 'proving he didn't want to go there' and 'he didn't want to be there to counter the bias allegation. When an English club buys a player from Spain, we hear he didn't want to be there. He was forced out, blah blah was his preferred destination. Complex coming through.

Well, here you go

Man United flop Angel Di Maria claims he only missed out on signing for PSG last summer due to FFP
http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/man-u ... ue-to-ffp/

Di Maria would be a PSG player if it wasn't for FFP - Al-Khelaifi
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2892/tra ... for-ffp-al

Angel Di Maria would be at PSG if it wasn't for FFP
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... laifi.html

PSG make bold claim about Man Utd winger Angel di Maria
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... an-9140048

The same guy said this:

Angel Di Maria said: "I am absolutely delighted to be joining Manchester United. I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in Spain and there were a lot of clubs interested in me, but United is the only club that I would have left Real Madrid for.

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Featu ... adrid.aspx

Players joining a club often have a token gesture to endear themselves to the fans.

[wiseone]

Di Maria (as talented as he is) was a mercenary: a hired gun. I am just astonished that LVG did not put his foot down and tell Di Maria that he would not be allowed to leave, and had to honour his contract. I recall SAF did something similar with CR7: telling him he would rather drop him and let him rot in the stands than sell him. He promised to allow him to leave only after he had given the club another 1-2 seasons of service.

[tfco]

Di Maria (as talented as he is) was a mercenary: a hired gun. I am just astonished that LVG did not put his foot down and tell Di Maria that he would not be allowed to leave, and had to honour his contract. I recall SAF did something similar with CR7: telling him he would rather drop him and let him rot in the stands than sell him. He promised to allow him to leave only after he had given the club another 1-2 seasons of service.

massive difference and i'm shocked to read this from you

C Ron was performing.

AdM was not, and was even benched by Young.

[wiseone]

ADM's performances were below par. However that is not a reason to sell a player bought for 60 million only months earlier! (otherwise 90% of players in world football would be sold at the end of every season) LVG should have told ADM to knuckle down and start playing like the player he was at RM.

Despite being injured or out of form for most of the season, ADM still got more assists than anyone apart from Hazard! (who played for the champions and was the player of the season!).

massive difference and i'm shocked to read this from you

C Ron was performing.

AdM was not, and was even benched by Young.

[benteke]

There are a lot of players who are skyving at Man Utd, and it's mostly because ever since Ferguson retired there are always question marks about whichever manager is in charge.

There was nowhere to hide under Ferguson, many of the players even used to overperform
Now anytime the team doesn't do well players are safe in the knowledge that the media and fans will be all over LVG, before that it was Moyes.

I'm starting to think the next manager may find himself in this situation.
Hopefully I'm wrong

[wiseone]

Very true. When SAF was around, Man Utd (and perhaps Arsenal) was the only club where players knew that the manager had greater job security than they did.

There are a lot of players who are skyving at Man Utd, and it's mostly because ever since Ferguson retired there are always question marks about whichever manager is in charge.

There was nowhere to hide under Ferguson, many of the players even used to overperform
Now anytime the team doesn't do well players are safe in the knowledge that the media and fans will be all over LVG, before that it was Moyes.

I'm starting to think the next manager may find himself in this situation.
Hopefully I'm wrong

[amafolas]

Very true. When SAF was around, Man Utd (and perhaps Arsenal) was the only club where players knew that the manager had greater job security than they did.

There are a lot of players who are skyving at Man Utd, and it's mostly because ever since Ferguson retired there are always question marks about whichever manager is in charge.

There was nowhere to hide under Ferguson, many of the players even used to overperform
Now anytime the team doesn't do well players are safe in the knowledge that the media and fans will be all over LVG, before that it was Moyes.

I'm starting to think the next manager may find himself in this situation.
Hopefully I'm wrong

Leave us out of this abeg. At Arsenal, both manager and players have jobs for life!