Chukwu Promised to retain LG Cup team

[Waffiman]

Questions:

To what extent is this LG Cup team based on the Olympic qualifier series?

Specifically, what relationship does this LG Cup team have with the All African Games squad?

Additionally, how consistent is this LG Cup team with Chukwu's "experimental" teams of the last two years? Are there any players retained (in this LG team) from those teams?

No sarcasm or hidden agenda .... unlike Enugu2, I am not a football encyclopaedia, so I ask out of curiosity and interest. My thing is we have this "revolving door" where people come in, play small, then vanish. Now Chukwu is saying that the LG Cup is all about long-term retention to supplement the regulars ..... but there needs to be more than just rhetoric before one is convinced we have started to think long-term. If words were all that mattered, we would have won World Cup 2002.

PS: And at the end of the day, after all the "experiments", we still always end up with an Ikpe Ekong in 2004, or an Efe Sodje in 2002, or the older Rufai in 1998, or Orjinta, or Ojigwe, or Efan Ekoku, or .... and a bench that is sort of weak.

My bro, what galls is the difference between the LG cup teams of last year and this year, there is no consistency or stability in selection whatever the tournament is. We are not building a team, we have people making money for themselves at the expense of the future of our National team. :x :x :x :x :x

[txj]

What about the remaining 70 players used in those experimental games?
I have always supported the idea of expanding the pool of players available to NT selectors, but this has to be clearly distinguished from 'exposure' of players for the purpose of enhancing their marketability by agents.
There is clearly no discernible sense of direction about these experimentations. Indeed the near total subjugation of personal for national interest in the SE is shocking to say the least. To line up a shambolic local XI, playing crap football against inferior opposition, and then generate excuses in an endless cycle of defense, creates an apparent sense of reality while the real winners are the deal makers behind the scene.
On the cybereagles, it is dishonest posts like the one below that has lately continously diminished this forum....

THE FAN:
To partially address your questions.

Of the previous homebased team used by Chukwu in late-2002/early-2003:

GK Enyeama (presently Eagles first-choice GK)
GK Ejide (presently with CAF Cup champions, Etoile du Sahel of Tunisia)
GK Rotimi (present Eagles' back-up, reportedly signed with SA team)

DF Osim (did not play in this LG Cup because Enyimba returned to Nigeria only on Wed)
DF Orjinta (currently with Norwegian team, Lillestrom (sp?))
DF Olajengbesi (currently in the Bundesliga with Freiburg)

MD Olofinjana (current Eagles' first-choice DM, with Brann in Norway)
MD Yaro Yaro (presently in Denmark, reportedly with Copenhagen)
MD Shiabu (played in current LG squad, but fringe in main Eagles' squad)
MD Igho (played in current LG squad, leads Rangers in CAF Confed Cup)

AT Ugochukwu (played in current LG cup and one game for the main squad)
AT Nworgu (played in current LG Cup, played several games with the main squad, and played in Israel and Ukraine apparently with limited success)

The likes of Temple Moneke, Ben Idahor (who recently had an unsuccesful trial at Hearts of Scotland) and Emma Issah (who has been a homebased Eagles' player since the days of Jo Bonfrere) have been dropped from consideration -- but of course that is exactly what any such PROCESS entails.

[Sir V]

What about the remaining 70 players used in those experimental games?
I have always supported the idea of expanding the pool of players available to NT selectors, but this has to be clearly distinguished from 'exposure' of players for the purpose of enhancing their marketability by agents.
There is clearly no discernible sense of direction about these experimentations. Indeed the near total subjugation of personal for national interest in the SE is shocking to say the least. To line up a shambolic local XI, playing crap football against inferior opposition, and then generate excuses in an endless cycle of defense, creates an apparent sense of reality while the real winners are the deal makers behind the scene.
On the cybereagles, it is dishonest posts like the one below that has lately continously diminished this forum....

THE FAN:
To partially address your questions.

Of the previous homebased team used by Chukwu in late-2002/early-2003:

GK Enyeama (presently Eagles first-choice GK)
GK Ejide (presently with CAF Cup champions, Etoile du Sahel of Tunisia)
GK Rotimi (present Eagles' back-up, reportedly signed with SA team)

DF Osim (did not play in this LG Cup because Enyimba returned to Nigeria only on Wed)
DF Orjinta (currently with Norwegian team, Lillestrom (sp?))
DF Olajengbesi (currently in the Bundesliga with Freiburg)

MD Olofinjana (current Eagles' first-choice DM, with Brann in Norway)
MD Yaro Yaro (presently in Denmark, reportedly with Copenhagen)
MD Shiabu (played in current LG squad, but fringe in main Eagles' squad)
MD Igho (played in current LG squad, leads Rangers in CAF Confed Cup)

AT Ugochukwu (played in current LG cup and one game for the main squad)
AT Nworgu (played in current LG Cup, played several games with the main squad, and played in Israel and Ukraine apparently with limited success)

The likes of Temple Moneke, Ben Idahor (who recently had an unsuccesful trial at Hearts of Scotland) and Emma Issah (who has been a homebased Eagles' player since the days of Jo Bonfrere) have been dropped from consideration -- but of course that is exactly what any such PROCESS entails.

Spot on my broda.

[theYemster]

What about the remaining 70 players used in those experimental games?
I have always supported the idea of expanding the pool of players available to NT selectors, but this has to be clearly distinguished from 'exposure' of players for the purpose of enhancing their marketability by agents.
There is clearly no discernible sense of direction about these experimentations. Indeed the near total subjugation of personal for national interest in the SE is shocking to say the least. To line up a shambolic local XI, playing crap football against inferior opposition, and then generate excuses in an endless cycle of defense, creates an apparent sense of reality while the real winners are the deal makers behind the scene.
On the cybereagles, it is dishonest posts like the one below that has lately continously diminished this forum....

THE FAN:
To partially address your questions.

Of the previous homebased team used by Chukwu in late-2002/early-2003:

GK Enyeama (presently Eagles first-choice GK)
GK Ejide (presently with CAF Cup champions, Etoile du Sahel of Tunisia)
GK Rotimi (present Eagles' back-up, reportedly signed with SA team)

DF Osim (did not play in this LG Cup because Enyimba returned to Nigeria only on Wed)
DF Orjinta (currently with Norwegian team, Lillestrom (sp?))
DF Olajengbesi (currently in the Bundesliga with Freiburg)

MD Olofinjana (current Eagles' first-choice DM, with Brann in Norway)
MD Yaro Yaro (presently in Denmark, reportedly with Copenhagen)
MD Shiabu (played in current LG squad, but fringe in main Eagles' squad)
MD Igho (played in current LG squad, leads Rangers in CAF Confed Cup)

AT Ugochukwu (played in current LG cup and one game for the main squad)
AT Nworgu (played in current LG Cup, played several games with the main squad, and played in Israel and Ukraine apparently with limited success)

The likes of Temple Moneke, Ben Idahor (who recently had an unsuccesful trial at Hearts of Scotland) and Emma Issah (who has been a homebased Eagles' player since the days of Jo Bonfrere) have been dropped from consideration -- but of course that is exactly what any such PROCESS entails.

If I didn't know better, I would think the likes of Gotti, Bell, Cyber Saint, Tolu et all have vested interest in Chukwu being in charge. Come to think of it, I will not be surprised if in future it is discovered that any of them benefitted in one way or the other from Chukwu being coach.

The extent to which they all go to defendng the indefensible is alarming to say the least.

[Gotti]

On the cybereagles, it is dishonest posts like the one below that has lately continously diminished this forum....

TXJ:
Please what is "dishonest" about the post? Was it not a PARTIAL response to The Fan's inquiries? Does it not discuss the respective circumstances of the HOMEBASED players used to prosecute the late-2002 and early-2003 friendlies?

As much as I try to avoid drivel based on little more than personal insults and invective, with some of the folks herein, it appears inevitable. Of course, when I RESPOND in kind, the hypocritical brigade will rise in their usual feigned indignation.

[Gotti]

If I didn't know better, I would think the likes of Gotti, Bell, Cyber Saint, Tolu et all have vested interest in Chukwu being in charge. Come to think of it, I will not be surprised if in future it is discovered that any of them benefitted in one way or the other from Chukwu being coach.

The usual mantra of personal invective and aspersions.

Considering that a forummer actually came on this forum and proclaimed a financial interest in Robson's hire only to turn around to accuse others of financially benefitting from Chukwu, I will not be surprised if you are looking at the mirror as you write the foregoing.

[txj]

Your post directly describes the experimentation as a process, and you go on to identify 15 players from about 85. My question then is, what about the other 70? You say you have discussed 'the respective circumstances of the HOMEBASED players used to prosecute the late-2002 and early-2003 friendlies', but it is a discourse that addresses a mere fraction of the total number. My post is no way meant to be a personal insult, and should not be so understood. In US politics it is called spinning. The stark truth is that it is a half truth.

On the cybereagles, it is dishonest posts like the one below that has lately continously diminished this forum....

TXJ:
Please what is "dishonest" about the post? Was it not a PARTIAL response to The Fan's inquiries? Does it not discuss the respective circumstances of the HOMEBASED players used to prosecute the late-2002 and early-2003 friendlies?

As much as I try to avoid drivel based on little more than personal insults and invective, with some of the folks herein, it appears inevitable. Of course, when I RESPOND in kind, the hypocritical brigade will rise in their usual feigned indignation.

[theYemster]

If I didn't know better, I would think the likes of Gotti, Bell, Cyber Saint, Tolu et all have vested interest in Chukwu being in charge. Come to think of it, I will not be surprised if in future it is discovered that any of them benefitted in one way or the other from Chukwu being coach.

The usual mantra of personal invective and aspersions.

Considering that a forummer actually came on this forum and proclaimed a financial interest in Robson's hire only to turn around to accuse others of financially benefitting from Chukwu, I will not be surprised if you are looking at the mirror as you write the foregoing.

Reproduced for your perusal.

The fact that I don't believe Chukwu is good enough doesn't necessarily mean I believe Robson is...I was never in the Robson debate so don't use that as a distraction. If I remember correctly, I was one of those that came down very hard on Ayo about the Robson saga so what's your point? Besides, the issue at hand is about Chukwu NOT Robson so face it squarely without stalling.

[Gotti]

The fact that I don't believe Chukwu is good enough doesn't necessarily mean I believe Robson is...I was never in the Robson debate so don't use that as a distraction. If I remember correctly, I was one of those that came down very hard on Ayo about the Robson saga so what's your point? Besides, the issue at hand is about Chukwu NOT Robson so face it squarely without stalling.

YEMSTER:
Actually the "issue at hand" is the unprovoked and unwarranted PERSONAL attacks and aspersions that you cast on those who disagree on your SUBSTANTIVE position on Chukwu.

I merely used the Robson saga to ILLUSTRATE that it often turns out to be those who accuse others of personal interest who actually harbor such interests.

[Gotti]

Your post directly describes the experimentation as a process, and you go on to identify 15 players from about 85. My question then is, what about the other 70? You say you have discussed 'the respective circumstances of the HOMEBASED players used to prosecute the late-2002 and early-2003 friendlies', but it is a discourse that addresses a mere fraction of the total number. My post is no way meant to be a personal insult, and should not be so understood. In US politics it is called spinning. The stark truth is that it is a half truth.

TXJ:
In the first instance, the circumstances of the homebased players were discussed in relation to The Fan's question merely because foreign-based players were unavailable for the LG Cup (which partly falls on non-FIFA dates). Accordingly, the homebased players listed therein represent the fulcrum of the fully homebased team used to prosecute the (non-FIFA date) friendlies against Senegal, Gambia and Ghana, as well as the partially-homebased friendlies against Jamaica, Egypt and the last LG Cup.

As for the rest of the players (all presumably foreign-based), some were obviously found wanting and rightly raised legitimate questions about Nigeria's scouting -- such as the ill-fated Kumbur and Doda. Others arguably earned their consideration -- such as Ayeni (2000 Olympic squad), Igbinadolor (Olympic squad) and Chibuike Okeke (who starred in the German FA Cup final and the UEFA Cup with Union Berlin). And of course, many others ultimately made the cut: Olofinjana, Abbey, Obodo, Odemwingie, Etafia, Uche Kalu, Ekwueme, Enakharire, Ekong, Melkam, Olajengbesi, Orjinta, et al.

The fact is that because Nigeria (1) does not have an institutionalized scouting system, (2) did not play any Grade A friendlies for almost THREE YEARS (prior to WC 2002) and (3) currently under-utilizes the FIFA Dates, the process of evaluating prospects and integrating same into the main squad will remain a rather disjointed one.

[VINDAVE]

What about the remaining 70 players used in those experimental games?
I have always supported the idea of expanding the pool of players available to NT selectors, but this has to be clearly distinguished from 'exposure' of players for the purpose of enhancing their marketability by agents.
There is clearly no discernible sense of direction about these experimentations. Indeed the near total subjugation of personal for national interest in the SE is shocking to say the least. To line up a shambolic local XI, playing crap football against inferior opposition, and then generate excuses in an endless cycle of defense, creates an apparent sense of reality while the real winners are the deal makers behind the scene.
On the cybereagles, it is dishonest posts like the one below that has lately continously diminished this forum....

THE FAN:
To partially address your questions.

Of the previous homebased team used by Chukwu in late-2002/early-2003:

GK Enyeama (presently Eagles first-choice GK)
GK Ejide (presently with CAF Cup champions, Etoile du Sahel of Tunisia)
GK Rotimi (present Eagles' back-up, reportedly signed with SA team)

DF Osim (did not play in this LG Cup because Enyimba returned to Nigeria only on Wed)
DF Orjinta (currently with Norwegian team, Lillestrom (sp?))
DF Olajengbesi (currently in the Bundesliga with Freiburg)

MD Olofinjana (current Eagles' first-choice DM, with Brann in Norway)
MD Yaro Yaro (presently in Denmark, reportedly with Copenhagen)
MD Shiabu (played in current LG squad, but fringe in main Eagles' squad)
MD Igho (played in current LG squad, leads Rangers in CAF Confed Cup)

AT Ugochukwu (played in current LG cup and one game for the main squad)
AT Nworgu (played in current LG Cup, played several games with the main squad, and played in Israel and Ukraine apparently with limited success)

The likes of Temple Moneke, Ben Idahor (who recently had an unsuccesful trial at Hearts of Scotland) and Emma Issah (who has been a homebased Eagles' player since the days of Jo Bonfrere) have been dropped from consideration -- but of course that is exactly what any such PROCESS entails.

If I didn't know better, I would think the likes of Gotti, Bell, Cyber Saint, Tolu et all have vested interest in Chukwu being in charge. Come to think of it, I will not be surprised if in future it is discovered that any of them benefitted in one way or the other from Chukwu being coach.

The extent to which they all go to defendng the indefensible is alarming to say the least.

Na wa for you. Whenever people speaks the truth you guys will just label them as supporter or benefitiaries instead of buying to the aguement of facts.... Just ask yourself is the above list by Gotti right or false?

[TD]

Your post directly describes the experimentation as a process, and you go on to identify 15 players from about 85. My question then is, what about the other 70? You say you have discussed 'the respective circumstances of the HOMEBASED players used to prosecute the late-2002 and early-2003 friendlies', but it is a discourse that addresses a mere fraction of the total number. My post is no way meant to be a personal insult, and should not be so understood. In US politics it is called spinning. The stark truth is that it is a half truth.

TXJ:
In the first instance, the circumstances of the homebased players were discussed in relation to The Fan's question merely because foreign-based players were unavailable for the LG Cup (which partly falls on non-FIFA dates). Accordingly, the homebased players listed therein represent the fulcrum of the fully homebased team used to prosecute the (non-FIFA date) friendlies against Senegal, Gambia and Ghana, as well as the partially-homebased friendlies against Jamaica, Egypt and the last LG Cup.

As for the rest of the players (all presumably foreign-based), some were obviously found wanting and rightly raised legitimate questions about Nigeria's scouting -- such as the ill-fated Kumbur and Doda. Others arguably earned their consideration -- such as Ayeni (2000 Olympic squad), Igbinadolor (Olympic squad) and Chibuike Okeke (who starred in the German FA Cup final and the UEFA Cup with Union Berlin). And of course, many others ultimately made the cut: Olofinjana, Abbey, Obodo, Odemwingie, Etafia, Uche Kalu, Ekwueme, Enakharire, Ekong, Melkam, Olajengbesi, Orjinta, et al.

The fact is that because Nigeria (1) does not have an institutionalized scouting system, (2) did not play any Grade A friendlies for almost THREE YEARS (prior to WC 2002) and (3) currently under-utilizes the FIFA Dates, the process of evaluating prospects and integrating same into the main squad will remain a rather disjointed one.

Gotti,

I think what txj is referring to is your tendency to offer these types of verbose, and rather saccharine, excuses or explanations for each and every Chukwu action, even those that make very little sense to ANY reasonable person.

The so-called "institutional" problems which you never tire to harp on have been with Nigerian football for as long as we care to remember, and one does expect someone who has such vast experience of participation within those same institutions to be familiar with these problems, and not offer the same up as excuse for why he has not achieved some of the limited goals asked of him.

The major problem I have with your view-points, no matter how well constructed or thought-out they may seem at times is your almost pathological insistence on excusing Chukwu from the shambles going on around him, while the reasonable conclusion should be that Chukwu IS PART OF THAT SYSTEM OF DISORGANIZATION, and even in instances where he could have, he has so far been unable to lift himself above the system to make any sort of tangible difference to the way our national team has been run.

I don't think it requires genius to develop processes and standards for the invitation of national team players, and the usual excuses of lack of scouting and Mr Bonfrere did the same, so why shouldn't Chukwu are just not good enough.
Like someone mentioned on a different thread, the "discovery" of players is not the duty of the national team coach. His is TO SELECT THE BEST PERFORMING NIGERIAN PLAYERS and mould them into a team. Now, i will not comment on the second part of the above statment, but the process of selecting players under Chukwu has been the most dubious, untransparent and ad-hoc it has ever been in recent memory.

A cursory look at the list of players who today are possible SE first and second teamers will reveal that these players, with the possible exception of George Abbey, stood out either at the local level or with their European clubs or else, were already SE candidates before Chukwu.

That is how it should be. If you want to add a fourth group of players to look at, then add the standouts at youth-level. The incredible waste of time and money just to find ONE iffy right-back has not justified this "talent-unearthing" process in any way.

[theYemster]

Na wa for you. Whenever people speaks the truth you guys will just label them as supporter or benefitiaries instead of buying to the aguement of facts.... Just ask yourself is the above list by Gotti right or false?

There is no truth in their argument...the only reasons they have given for defending Chukwu is because they want an IC in charge good or bad....according to them ICs allegedly don't get the same fair deal as FCs so they will keep defending them irrespective of their abilities. Is that a good enough reason to have a bad coach? The SE coaching job is not the place to fight your equal rights wars. As far as im concerned, my only concern for now is the coach being good enough...which Chukwu clearly isn't.

Gotti just disguises his pointlessness with big grammar in order to confuse and derail critics.

BTW, I haven't exactly labeled him a beneficiary...I cleverly stopped just short of that 8) as all I said was I won't be surprised if it is discovered in future.

[Gotti]

Like someone mentioned on a different thread, the "discovery" of players is not the duty of the national team coach. His is TO SELECT THE BEST PERFORMING NIGERIAN PLAYERS and mould them into a team. Now, i will not comment on the second part of the above statment, but the process of selecting players under Chukwu has been the most dubious, untransparent and ad-hoc it has ever been in recent memory.

TD:
While it is not exactly a novel (nor original) insight, I actually made that assertion eons ago when Cyber Saint was praising Chukwu for 'discovering' certain players (of course I realize that a certain Waffler has since appropriated it -- but I am sure that for some every borrowed bit helps edification). Another point that I made eons ago is that it is often neither simple nor straightforward to "select the best performing Nigerian players" because scores of Nigeria's best prospects perform at differing abilities in different leagues of differing quality.

Accordingly, the only manner to evaluate whether Murphy Akanji's (the top GK prospect while in Nigeria with Berger) "performance" in the Maltese League is better than Greg Etafia's (another top GK prospect in Nigeria with Plateau Utd) "performance" in the SA Premier League is to actually grant each an opportunity within the Eagles' set-up. And that process is further COMPOUNDED when Nigeria does not play any full international friendlies for almost three years -- which meant that prospects merely piled up without being properly evaluated (and then either eliminated or retained).

Now, as to whether Chukwu's selection process has constituted the "most dubious, untransparent and ad-hoc," we have already had a semblance of that discussion well over a year ago when you called for a 'public criteria' for the selection of players for the Eagles. And while I will reiterate NO coach employs such a public criteria and that I cannot assume that Chukwu has no criteria merely because we (including myself) are not privy to same, I can confidently say that (while I have personally and publicly questioned some of Chukwu's selections) there is little FACTUAL basis for your assertion.

Even the 'worst' of Chukwu's selections of Francis Kumbur and Haruna Doda in 2002 (two years ago!) are hardly that abhorrent considering that each player were in the Eagles merely the previous year (2001) -- with Kumbur actually playing in the 1-0 defeat of Mozambique in Maputo and Doda in the team (but not certain if he actually played) for the ANC qualifier against Namibia in Windhoek (and at that time, Doda had already left his Portuguese club since 2000). In fact, it is ARGUABLY to Chukwu's credit that after a brief look at both in FRIENDLIES (Kumbur for less than 30 mins, and Doda for 45 mins), he substituted both and has since confined them to the dustbin of history. Learned experience, afterall, is based on the positive and the NEGATIVE.

On the other, I fail to see what was so 'transparent and systemic' in Dutchman Thijs Libregt's selection and STARTING of ex-Conference League player Sam Ayorinde (who was so desperate that he was advertising his services over the Internet) in a COMPETITIVE ANC qualifier away against Burkina Faso. I similarly fail to see what was so 'transparent and systemic' about Johannes Bonfrere's selection of the clubless Bina Ajunwa and in actually playing him in an ANC qualifier away against Zambia -- nor in his selections of the likes of Furo Iyenemi and Augustine Fregene, among others.

While I do not necessarily totally excuse any of Nigeria's national team coaches (not just Chukwu) from the quagmire that is the administration of Nigerian football, experience and intuition informs me that in a situation where the same mistakes are repeated regardless of the coach in charge -- foreign or domestic, that the BEST place to search for the fault and commence the repairs is to identify the CONSTANT factor in all of those circumstances -- and in this instance, that constant is the administrative ineptness of the NFA!

Unfortunately, as is often the case in Nigeria and among Nigerians, we tend to trivalize that which should be highlighted and highlight that which should be trivalized. But as I duly forecasted in my vigorous defence of Onigbinde's tenure (in the post-2002 WC mob lynching), CHANGE IS CERTAIN, BUT PROGRESS IS NOT! And without substantial and substantive STRUCTURAL reform in the administration of Nigerian football a new coach would nary make a difference -- after all, the Eagles have had about TEN coaches in the last ten years! In all humility, I would like to believe that I now stand exonerated!

[Gotti]

Na wa for you. Whenever people speaks the truth you guys will just label them as supporter or benefitiaries instead of buying to the aguement of facts.... Just ask yourself is the above list by Gotti right or false?

VINDAVE:
Please don't even bother.

I have since come to realize that there are principally two kinds of folks on this forum: those who come to engage in SUBSTANTIVE discourse and those who revel in personal attacks. Unfortunately, for a while I allowed myself to rise to the bait of the latter. But these days, I simply regulate the likes of YEMI to background noise.

[sarkin doya]

The amazing thing is how folks jump from one bandwagon to
another.

The same people who critize Amodu for not experimenting
with different people will critize Onigbinde or CCC for
experimenting with too many players. There is no happy
medium.