HURRAY HOULLIER IS GONE!!!
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TXJ:
We all saw with our two korokoro eyes the disaster that was Querioz's tenure with S Africa.
Lets be honest... The guy is a rubbish coach who was tactically outmanoeveured by many a coach in La Liga.
The guy is a worse than CCC IMO. Other than impressive credentials (ie ability to speak 5 langauges), the guy has done nothing in the world of football insofar as winning as a coach!
Sorry, my bro, but if you are going to bash CCC, then I suggest you apply the same standards to the useless Carlos Queiroz!
We all saw with our two korokoro eyes the disaster that was Querioz's tenure with S Africa.
Lets be honest... The guy is a rubbish coach who was tactically outmanoeveured by many a coach in La Liga.
The guy is a worse than CCC IMO. Other than impressive credentials (ie ability to speak 5 langauges), the guy has done nothing in the world of football insofar as winning as a coach!
Sorry, my bro, but if you are going to bash CCC, then I suggest you apply the same standards to the useless Carlos Queiroz!
txj wrote:Thats a lot of crap Yujam.
If Carlos failed in Madrid, you have to find the reasons on the field not off it. You cannot hold the man responsible for a failed transfer policy, which he even warned against at the beginning of the season. Perez (and Valdano) has simply used him to deflect criticism from his failed transfer policy.
These are some of the reasons why a smart Arsene Wenger will not touch Madrid with a ten-foot pole...
YUJAM wrote:Waffi:
It is pure madness to suggest that based on this season, Queiroz has proven that he can mix it with the big boys. The guy failed to do the job with the best in the biz. Not only this, but the guy was unable to prosper at S Africa even tho he had some of the best players on the continent.
Waffiman wrote:chopeski wrote:To UK folks out there, I liken Liverpool to once great British institutions like Sainsbury’s and Marks & Spencer. They all have fallen on hard times and rather than move forward, they hark back to the glorious days of year gone by. Meanwhile, other modern looking teams or businesses have moved on, they spend so much time wandering on what track to stay on i.e. the modern version or the tried and tested more traditional one.
The solution in my view is to rip up all that old culture, and start afresh by moving on. They need to get players in who have a different view to life. All that lil Englander crap who work here. If Steven Gerrard wants an English coach, then flog him off to Newcastle or Boro where he can play for an “English” coach.
txj, you are being very bold indeed, IMHO, Queiroz has dne enough to convince me he is now ready to mix it with the big boys. His time at Real has finally convinced on his credentials as a coach.
I disagree about Daglish, he has been out of the game for too long.
Again, I ask you to support your claims by facts on the field, not useless statements like his disaster in RSA! You should read what the south africans are saying about how the quality of their organization affected top class coaches that they have brought. But that is another matter..
Real's season began unravelling from the second half of the King's cup final. You watch the Liga...Up until and a little beyond that in the league, Madrid was playing the best football in Europe! But there were always doubts about how long that defence would hold. With Makelele and Hierro, Madrid would've run away with that title with a few weeks to spare.
How can you have a team with a defence line comprising players straight from the youth team and expect to win a marathon like the Liga...
Real's season began unravelling from the second half of the King's cup final. You watch the Liga...Up until and a little beyond that in the league, Madrid was playing the best football in Europe! But there were always doubts about how long that defence would hold. With Makelele and Hierro, Madrid would've run away with that title with a few weeks to spare.
How can you have a team with a defence line comprising players straight from the youth team and expect to win a marathon like the Liga...
YUJAM wrote:TXJ:
We all saw with our two korokoro eyes the disaster that was Querioz's tenure with S Africa.
Lets be honest... The guy is a rubbish coach who was tactically outmanoeveured by many a coach in La Liga.
The guy is a worse than CCC IMO. Other than impressive credentials (ie ability to speak 5 langauges), the guy has done nothing in the world of football insofar as winning as a coach!
Sorry, my bro, but if you are going to bash CCC, then I suggest you apply the same standards to the useless Carlos Queiroz!
txj wrote:Thats a lot of crap Yujam.
If Carlos failed in Madrid, you have to find the reasons on the field not off it. You cannot hold the man responsible for a failed transfer policy, which he even warned against at the beginning of the season. Perez (and Valdano) has simply used him to deflect criticism from his failed transfer policy.
These are some of the reasons why a smart Arsene Wenger will not touch Madrid with a ten-foot pole...
YUJAM wrote:Waffi:
It is pure madness to suggest that based on this season, Queiroz has proven that he can mix it with the big boys. The guy failed to do the job with the best in the biz. Not only this, but the guy was unable to prosper at S Africa even tho he had some of the best players on the continent.
Waffiman wrote:chopeski wrote:To UK folks out there, I liken Liverpool to once great British institutions like Sainsbury’s and Marks & Spencer. They all have fallen on hard times and rather than move forward, they hark back to the glorious days of year gone by. Meanwhile, other modern looking teams or businesses have moved on, they spend so much time wandering on what track to stay on i.e. the modern version or the tried and tested more traditional one.
The solution in my view is to rip up all that old culture, and start afresh by moving on. They need to get players in who have a different view to life. All that lil Englander crap who work here. If Steven Gerrard wants an English coach, then flog him off to Newcastle or Boro where he can play for an “English” coach.
txj, you are being very bold indeed, IMHO, Queiroz has dne enough to convince me he is now ready to mix it with the big boys. His time at Real has finally convinced on his credentials as a coach.
I disagree about Daglish, he has been out of the game for too long.
Real Madrid paid the price for an imbalanced squad which lacked dept. No coach with things with a poor and sub-standard defence. Ronaldo injured, no backup incase Raul goes off form, meanwhile Moro is doing the business against them in the CL. Poor Management by Rerez and Valdano, not queiroz.
Arsène Wenger at Arsenal, 1996 to 2018. I was there.
John Toschack is badly needed at Liverpool. He knows his stuff.
If I give you a good wine, you will see how it tastes and after you ask where it comes from,'' ""To put players in my team who are not good enough will not strengthen the England team, and would weaken the Arsenal team.''The only thing I can say is that whenever England do not win it is always my fault,even when I am not at the game".Wenger said.
TXJ:
You know that I am perturbed by your suggestion that Liverpool hire a failed coach. The man is a tactical disaster. Real lost 5 home games in a row with Casillas, Salgado, Zidane, Ronaldo, Raul, Figo and Beck, yet all you can come up is the weak youth team excuse? Please! And yes go and look at S Africa's level of play during ANC 02 and you'll see that Queiroz is a rubbish coach. Their play was lacksadaisical and dude was fired immediately after. They did not even trust him to lead the team to the WC.. He was no better than Sono or Shakes..
And btw, having watched Real the whole season, I can honestly say that at no point did they play the best footie in Europe?
Queiroz is useless and for you to suggest that such a failure be awarded the Pool coaching job is mindboggling. Give me CCC any day over Queiroz!
BTW, can you tell me what Queiroz has achieved coaching the Snr level?
You know that I am perturbed by your suggestion that Liverpool hire a failed coach. The man is a tactical disaster. Real lost 5 home games in a row with Casillas, Salgado, Zidane, Ronaldo, Raul, Figo and Beck, yet all you can come up is the weak youth team excuse? Please! And yes go and look at S Africa's level of play during ANC 02 and you'll see that Queiroz is a rubbish coach. Their play was lacksadaisical and dude was fired immediately after. They did not even trust him to lead the team to the WC.. He was no better than Sono or Shakes..
And btw, having watched Real the whole season, I can honestly say that at no point did they play the best footie in Europe?
Queiroz is useless and for you to suggest that such a failure be awarded the Pool coaching job is mindboggling. Give me CCC any day over Queiroz!
BTW, can you tell me what Queiroz has achieved coaching the Snr level?
txj wrote:Again, I ask you to support your claims by facts on the field, not useless statements like his disaster in RSA! You should read what the south africans are saying about how the quality of their organization affected top class coaches that they have brought. But that is another matter..
Real's season began unravelling from the second half of the King's cup final. You watch the Liga...Up until and a little beyond that in the league, Madrid was playing the best football in Europe! But there were always doubts about how long that defence would hold. With Makelele and Hierro, Madrid would've run away with that title with a few weeks to spare.
How can you have a team with a defence line comprising players straight from the youth team and expect to win a marathon like the Liga...
YUJAM wrote:TXJ:
We all saw with our two korokoro eyes the disaster that was Querioz's tenure with S Africa.
Lets be honest... The guy is a rubbish coach who was tactically outmanoeveured by many a coach in La Liga.
The guy is a worse than CCC IMO. Other than impressive credentials (ie ability to speak 5 langauges), the guy has done nothing in the world of football insofar as winning as a coach!
Sorry, my bro, but if you are going to bash CCC, then I suggest you apply the same standards to the useless Carlos Queiroz!
txj wrote:Thats a lot of crap Yujam.
If Carlos failed in Madrid, you have to find the reasons on the field not off it. You cannot hold the man responsible for a failed transfer policy, which he even warned against at the beginning of the season. Perez (and Valdano) has simply used him to deflect criticism from his failed transfer policy.
These are some of the reasons why a smart Arsene Wenger will not touch Madrid with a ten-foot pole...
YUJAM wrote:Waffi:
It is pure madness to suggest that based on this season, Queiroz has proven that he can mix it with the big boys. The guy failed to do the job with the best in the biz. Not only this, but the guy was unable to prosper at S Africa even tho he had some of the best players on the continent.
Waffiman wrote:chopeski wrote:To UK folks out there, I liken Liverpool to once great British institutions like Sainsbury’s and Marks & Spencer. They all have fallen on hard times and rather than move forward, they hark back to the glorious days of year gone by. Meanwhile, other modern looking teams or businesses have moved on, they spend so much time wandering on what track to stay on i.e. the modern version or the tried and tested more traditional one.
The solution in my view is to rip up all that old culture, and start afresh by moving on. They need to get players in who have a different view to life. All that lil Englander crap who work here. If Steven Gerrard wants an English coach, then flog him off to Newcastle or Boro where he can play for an “English” coach.
txj, you are being very bold indeed, IMHO, Queiroz has dne enough to convince me he is now ready to mix it with the big boys. His time at Real has finally convinced on his credentials as a coach.
I disagree about Daglish, he has been out of the game for too long.
There are two ways to assess a coach: by on field tactics, and secondly by off-field leadership. I too saw Madrid play this season and at some stage they seemed to be out of this world!
But key observers of the game in Spain always did cast doubts at that defence and how long it would hold out. In the end it did not!
And to deflect criticism in an election year, Perez dumps the blame on Queiroz. I am shocked that you cannot see beyond your dislike of Madrid... Here is a quote from Perez as reported by Reuters...
But key observers of the game in Spain always did cast doubts at that defence and how long it would hold out. In the end it did not!
And to deflect criticism in an election year, Perez dumps the blame on Queiroz. I am shocked that you cannot see beyond your dislike of Madrid... Here is a quote from Perez as reported by Reuters...
Perez also used the news conference to present new signing Walter Samuel, the first defender to be hired by the club since he took charge at the club four years ago.
But the Real president denied that the recruitment of the Argentine international was an admission that the club's failures had been a product of their previous policy of signing only high-profile attacking players.
'Our policy remains the same,' he said. 'We have been working on signing this defender for some time. Our policy is simply to sign the best players in the world in every position.'
TXJ:
You know that I am perturbed by your suggestion that Liverpool hire a failed coach. The man is a tactical disaster. Real lost 5 home games in a row with Casillas, Salgado, Zidane, Ronaldo, Raul, Figo and Beck, yet all you can come up is the weak youth team excuse? Please! And yes go and look at S Africa's level of play during ANC 02 and you'll see that Queiroz is a rubbish coach. Their play was lacksadaisical and dude was fired immediately after. They did not even trust him to lead the team to the WC.. He was no better than Sono or Shakes..
And btw, having watched Real the whole season, I can honestly say that at no point did they play the best footie in Europe?
Queiroz is useless and for you to suggest that such a failure be awarded the Pool coaching job is mindboggling. Give me CCC any day over Queiroz!
BTW, can you tell me what Queiroz has achieved coaching the Snr level?
We know a good coach from his wrap sheet. Now back to Yujam's question. What has Quieroz won at the senior level? Loosing 5 straight games with the tittle in sight tells me the coach is lacking. If we brought thesame excuses about local coaches no one would have bought those so lets judge him from his results.
Failed in RSA and they say it was management
Failed at Madrid and they still blame Management
So where has he actually succeeded?
In this light if he even had some success then we should also attribute it to good management.
He had no control over the players, Becham et al were jetting in and out of Madrid as if they were on a tourism expedition
Failed in RSA and they say it was management
Failed at Madrid and they still blame Management
So where has he actually succeeded?
In this light if he even had some success then we should also attribute it to good management.
He had no control over the players, Becham et al were jetting in and out of Madrid as if they were on a tourism expedition
“I can play with people’s emotions when I want to make an impact. It’s one way to get the best out of people.” Jose Mourinho (March 08, 2005)
"Again Mblack, I have no beef with you as I actually respect you a lot." SAwosika (May 14, 2005)
"Again Mblack, I have no beef with you as I actually respect you a lot." SAwosika (May 14, 2005)
Mkizito76:
I even found out more stuff about the guy:
1. He has the worst S African winning %; even indigenous coaches are better.
2. After Wenger left, he reduced Nagoya Grampus 8 to mediocrity.
3. He failed to get the MetroStars past the 1st round of the MLS play-offs. His season record wasnt much better.
4. More of the same at Madrid!
I even found out more stuff about the guy:
1. He has the worst S African winning %; even indigenous coaches are better.
2. After Wenger left, he reduced Nagoya Grampus 8 to mediocrity.
3. He failed to get the MetroStars past the 1st round of the MLS play-offs. His season record wasnt much better.
4. More of the same at Madrid!
Carlos Queiroz's claim to fame in football coaching came from his work in nurturing Portugal's "golden generation" of players. Since then his career has oscillated from second place finishes to outright failure, up until his work as assistant to Alex Fergurson for which he was widely acclaimed.
Now, my position on him is wrt his work with Madrid, and as stated earlier, you judge a coach by his on-field training methodology and tactics; and by off-field leadership.
The Madrid I saw in the first half of this season was an excellent attacking team. Judged by the first criteria, his performance was compromised by a lack of balance in the squad, but his tactics were excellent. In the marathon that is a league season, his team collapsed from a lack of balance in terms of adequate cover in defence, a situation deriving from a poor transfer policy, which Perez has now back-tracked on with the signing of Samuel. This was no case of tactical or technical failure. Comacho would fail too if Madrid does not balance its squad appropriately.
Off-field, I think Carlos Queiroz's laid back, media-friendly approach failed.
Now, would I hire him as a coach? On the balance, YES!
Now, my position on him is wrt his work with Madrid, and as stated earlier, you judge a coach by his on-field training methodology and tactics; and by off-field leadership.
The Madrid I saw in the first half of this season was an excellent attacking team. Judged by the first criteria, his performance was compromised by a lack of balance in the squad, but his tactics were excellent. In the marathon that is a league season, his team collapsed from a lack of balance in terms of adequate cover in defence, a situation deriving from a poor transfer policy, which Perez has now back-tracked on with the signing of Samuel. This was no case of tactical or technical failure. Comacho would fail too if Madrid does not balance its squad appropriately.
Off-field, I think Carlos Queiroz's laid back, media-friendly approach failed.
Now, would I hire him as a coach? On the balance, YES!
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.
We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.
We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
Txj,
If we are talking about on-field quality then I would say he is still lacking. The two factors that define a good or bad coach are tactics and strategy. By tactics I mean his on the field abilities during a game. That is his ability to read an on going game and make the necesarry changes or adjustments. Theer he is very Lacking as seen from the free fall during the second half of the season and Champoins League. His play style (what I refer to as strategy was easily read and so all the subsequent teams knew how to get him and because of his lack of tactics he could only watch his side lose)
By strategy I mean his play system or what we call play style. he sure had a good play style from the start of the season. A play style that was so over used that he was left wanting after every game for the past two months as every team knew exactly what Madrid was up to. He had limited options of play style or strategies so again he is lacking.
Then coming to your second point of off- field Leadership, he was just a disgrace. As I mentioned earlier, players were always parading the streets of Madrid, spending too much time doing non club related issues. Now where was he after the notorous defeat by Mallorca that it was Perez who took over issues? He never called the shots in the dressing room and he was never in charge off the field.
Summarily Queiroz is lacking as a tactician, lacking as a strategist (thus lacking as a high profile coach) and also lacking in off the field management thus NOT and I repeat NOT good enough as a front line coach for a high profile club or any country or club gunning for trophies
If we are talking about on-field quality then I would say he is still lacking. The two factors that define a good or bad coach are tactics and strategy. By tactics I mean his on the field abilities during a game. That is his ability to read an on going game and make the necesarry changes or adjustments. Theer he is very Lacking as seen from the free fall during the second half of the season and Champoins League. His play style (what I refer to as strategy was easily read and so all the subsequent teams knew how to get him and because of his lack of tactics he could only watch his side lose)
By strategy I mean his play system or what we call play style. he sure had a good play style from the start of the season. A play style that was so over used that he was left wanting after every game for the past two months as every team knew exactly what Madrid was up to. He had limited options of play style or strategies so again he is lacking.
Then coming to your second point of off- field Leadership, he was just a disgrace. As I mentioned earlier, players were always parading the streets of Madrid, spending too much time doing non club related issues. Now where was he after the notorous defeat by Mallorca that it was Perez who took over issues? He never called the shots in the dressing room and he was never in charge off the field.
Summarily Queiroz is lacking as a tactician, lacking as a strategist (thus lacking as a high profile coach) and also lacking in off the field management thus NOT and I repeat NOT good enough as a front line coach for a high profile club or any country or club gunning for trophies
Last edited by mblack76 on Mon May 24, 2004 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“I can play with people’s emotions when I want to make an impact. It’s one way to get the best out of people.” Jose Mourinho (March 08, 2005)
"Again Mblack, I have no beef with you as I actually respect you a lot." SAwosika (May 14, 2005)
"Again Mblack, I have no beef with you as I actually respect you a lot." SAwosika (May 14, 2005)
Good pts. The guy's record is seriously lacking too. The guy appears to have the anti-midas touch. He failed in S Africa. He failed in the MLS.. Failed in Japan and failed with Madrid.
How TXJ can propose that the guy be hired to coach Pool is beyond me! I mean, the statistics dont lie!
How TXJ can propose that the guy be hired to coach Pool is beyond me! I mean, the statistics dont lie!
Ghana's First President Kwame Nkrumah said: "We face neither East nor West; we face Forward"
Queiroz is a damn good coach but not a good Manager. My belief is, he will end up as Fergie's coach again, on this prospect I am worried.
However, what he has done at Real Madrid has also convinced me he can now make it as a Coach on his own. If he works in a structure like Real, AC Milan etc. he will succeed but if he hasto work in a structure like Manure, Arsenal etc. he will fail.
However, what he has done at Real Madrid has also convinced me he can now make it as a Coach on his own. If he works in a structure like Real, AC Milan etc. he will succeed but if he hasto work in a structure like Manure, Arsenal etc. he will fail.
Arsène Wenger at Arsenal, 1996 to 2018. I was there.
He actually did well with Man U as asst coach - everyone there players and coaches were singing his praises. He gave them freshness and ideas, even turning Phil Neville Quinton Fortune from scrubs into valuable and critical members of the team- and that was why Real hired him.
Unfortunately he was not able to do the same with the Cambiassos, Pavons and Bravos. Not sure if that says somehting abut their lack of ability or his. Judging y the hasty signing of Walter Samuel, Qieroz had correctly evauluated their (lack of) talent. But he was not great as a leader of great players at Real, although he was good as an advisor without authority at Man U.
Anyway I think its more logical to assume that Quiroz has great ideas and in fact needs a head coach and a structure in order to filter the best out of that.
Unfortunately he was not able to do the same with the Cambiassos, Pavons and Bravos. Not sure if that says somehting abut their lack of ability or his. Judging y the hasty signing of Walter Samuel, Qieroz had correctly evauluated their (lack of) talent. But he was not great as a leader of great players at Real, although he was good as an advisor without authority at Man U.
Anyway I think its more logical to assume that Quiroz has great ideas and in fact needs a head coach and a structure in order to filter the best out of that.
"Jose Mourinho favoured directness and used to throw Robert Huth or John Terry up front when Chelsea were chasing the game, a ploy associated with the industrial era of English football management."
- The Guardian UK, November 26, 2007
- The Guardian UK, November 26, 2007
They better rush after Bayern's mistake
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.....
"“There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must take it because conscience tells him it is right.”
MLK.
"“There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but he must take it because conscience tells him it is right.”
MLK.
