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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:24 pm 
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On the side note, here are some real example of dividends on investment of human resources within our local league:

1. If the likes of Chief MKO Abiola did not provide professional development for Kadiri Ikhana when he was a player-coach in the mid-80s when he was with Abiola Babes , he would not have gotten to be a coach for the first instance. Further professional foreign training offered to him by Kastina United/El-Kanemi also helped in him in solidfying his resume. That same Ikhana ended up to be first coach to win the African Cup of Champion for Nigeria with Enyimba.

2. In the 1970s, the late Lekan Salami hired a foreign coach for Sooting and struck a deal with English football Association for the training and certification of local coaches such as Jossy Lad and AO who were working with Allan. Well, Allan, these coaches took over the club and turned a "giant killer" in the league. Well, Jossy Lad left Sooting and went to join Leventis United, where also got further development through John Mastradous's Greek Partner. All together the knowledge gotten in the process definitely helped Jossy Lad in building a solid Leventis United that went from division 3 to division 1 without losing a game.

This unlike SE where foreign coaches are hired and no "transition' or 'no real concrete agreement' to develop local successor for these coaches whenever they leave. For over 4 decades, we have been going round in circle and return to the same "expensive $#%" in Fela's language. Yet, people still have the audacity to say "foreign only" is the real path to follow. A foreign solution without real local flavor is the path to eternal bondage.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:06 pm 
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There's a director around me here that breathes the red of Man Utd. He sponsors a local youth team (where Owen Hargreaves came from) and football is practically his life. He regularly goes to Man Utd and often takes local kids along with him to meet with the first team players since he knows Hargreaves personally.

He once asked of how a typical nigerian footballer learns his skills growing up. He said he was at Conolly (Utd training ground) when the U17 i.e. Mikel Obi's set were invited to train there. He said he went to watch their game against another youth team (Liverpool?...couldn't remember very clearly) and spoke of the skill level of the nigerians as being unbelievable and you could see his face lighting up. He said there was such a huge gulf in their level compared to the other team that he wondered what training must have developed it at that age. Though admittedly he said a few didn't look as young. :P He was shocked when the humble beginnings and process a typical nigerian footballer goes through was described and wondered why we're not doing better on the world stage.

When we complain of our players being damaged today its also due to lack of a viable league. Tevez and Mascherano were already formed in their local league such that the misadventure at West Ham didn't wreck them and when they go back to their national teams, they flawlessly fitted in and played their game. Mascherano was ok despite not playing at West Ham.

In an ideal scenario, 18 of the 23 U17 from last year would have been split in the top four teams in the country with a club having as many as 5 of them playing and developing together. But as we've seen due to economic factors, they're all over the place and the ones left in Nigeria are plotting their way out. It's left to been seen whether they will retain their chemistry the way they had it under Yemi Tella RIP. We cannot sustain this model forever and become a superpower at the world stage.

As per looking down on locals, Toxic you are spot on. We have nonentities on this site that like to talk about local coaches as being wretched paupers and incompetent ignoring their achievements and the environment other nonentities make them work in. It's a pity as no one has the magic ball on football.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:29 pm 
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felarey wrote:

In an ideal scenario, 18 of the 23 U17 from last year would have been split in the top four teams in the country with a club having as many as 5 of them playing and developing together. But as we've seen due to economic factors, they're all over the place and the ones left in Nigeria are plotting their way out. It's left to been seen whether they will retain their chemistry the way they had it under Yemi Tella RIP. We cannot sustain this model forever and become a superpower at the world stage.
.


Really sad situation,indeed. To add insult to injury, many of them would end up in "slavery" because of the desperation to get out of the country to make living. The agents will make their own "cool cash" and then leave them to waste away for some unknown remote part of the world. It such desperation made Wilson Oruma late "boomer" and also denied him his "rightful place in the SE" . Though he is lucky that he made his way back to soccer after his initial ordeal, following the forged ITC (International Transfer Certificate) in which he was transfered to France after the 1993 Under-17 WC victory. However, many do not have second-chance like him.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:44 pm 
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Felarey:

If you have a chance, you should get this book - How Soccer Explains the World: An Unlikely Theory of Globalization- by Franklin Foer. It has a chapter on the experiences of Nigerian players in Ukraine. The chapter, entitled "How Soccer explains the Black Carpathians", used the experience of former Golden Eaglet player and former Oloye's team mate at BCC Lions, Edward Anyamkygh in Ukraine as the case study. It showed how Edward like many of his colleagues from 1995 Golden Eaglets of Bosun Ayeni, James Obiora and others wasted away in the "foreign markets" with the help of agents who 'sold' them away.

The book is available at Indigo as well as on http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006621 ... e&n=283155

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:31 pm 
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Bump...from 10 years ago :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:22 pm 
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Location: Displaced Naija. Don't bother
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Na wah o.

This FC/LC debate is almost as old as CE. :laugh:

Sadly, little has changed. Or maybe there is some progress with the local league.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:47 pm 
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Hmmm....Back to the reality :taunt: :taunt: :taunt:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:12 pm 
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Hmmm!!! Twelve years later, as it was in the beginning, so shall it be, now and forevermore/

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:34 pm 
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How did I miss this post?

Wow, it captures a chunk of what we should all be concerned about. We are willing to pay an enormous amount for a European to give us what a local can give us 10 folds! What is the value that Rohr has really brought to Nigerian football since he was hired that a Nigerian could not have for half the financial outlay?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:41 pm 
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It doesn't seem like there's a clear defined program to develop and train local coaches in Nigeria.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:25 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
How did I miss this post?

Wow, it captures a chunk of what we should all be concerned about. We are willing to pay an enormous amount for a European to give us what a local can give us 10 folds! What is the value that Rohr has really brought to Nigerian football since he was hired that a Nigerian could not have for half the financial outlay?



We are still regurgitating this tired argument?

It has very little to do with how much one is paid. The reality is that the relationship is not linear...

Coaching ability is first and foremost about the creative intellect and management capability.

While finances can and do serve as incentive/motivation, you have to first have the ability.

And those abilities are not a function of race.

While in theory, there might be locals who can give us ten fold what Rohr does, there are equally other Europeans who can give us ten fold what Rohr does!

And for that matter, there are locals who can give us ten times less than what Rohr is doing atm!

This debate is long past its sell by date...

There is little doubt that in the group of retired Nigerian pro footballers, who have made the transition to coaching, that we have some top candidates. But there's also little doubt that the conditions created by the NFF are not conducive for them to thrive.

And those conditions similarly impact foreign coaches, albeit to varying degrees- late salary payments, poor pitches, player welfare, poor infrastructures, poor logistics planning, poor management, etc

That is why threads/debates like this are not helpful, where the focus should rightly be on the NFF...

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:34 pm 
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Unfortunately not, wages should be based on expected productivity. Why would I pay 10 times more if I can get same productivity for paying less. If you are willing to make such payment, I would not call it astute but foolish. Have you gone to the store and paid $20 for an item that you can get in another store for $1? Makes little sense.

txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
How did I miss this post?

Wow, it captures a chunk of what we should all be concerned about. We are willing to pay an enormous amount for a European to give us what a local can give us 10 folds! What is the value that Rohr has really brought to Nigerian football since he was hired that a Nigerian could not have for half the financial outlay?



We are still regurgitating this tired argument?

It has very little to do with how much one is paid. The reality is that the relationship is not linear...

Coaching ability is first and foremost about the creative intellect and management capability.

While finances can and do serve as incentive/motivation, you have to first have the ability.

And those abilities are not a function of race.

While in theory, there might be locals who can give us ten fold what Rohr does, there are equally other Europeans who can give us ten fold what Rohr does!

And for that matter, there are locals who can give us ten times less than what Rohr is doing atm!

This debate is long past its sell by date...

There is little doubt that in the group of retired Nigerian pro footballers, who have made the transition to coaching, that we have some top candidates. But there's also little doubt that the conditions created by the NFF are not conducive for them to thrive.

And those conditions similarly impact foreign coaches, albeit to varying degrees- late salary payments, poor pitches, player welfare, poor infrastructures, poor logistics planning, poor management, etc

That is why threads/debates like this are not helpful, where the focus should rightly be on the NFF...

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:32 am 
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Enugu II wrote:
How did I miss this post?

Wow, it captures a chunk of what we should all be concerned about. We are willing to pay an enormous amount for a European to give us what a local can give us 10 folds! What is the value that Rohr has really brought to Nigerian football since he was hired that a Nigerian could not have for half the financial outlay?
Chief, why would you pay a Nigerian half of what you are paying a foreigner for the same job?
Isn't that part of the problem we are talking about?
Those days are long gone.

We never paid Keshi or Oliseh "half" of what we are paying Rohr. Not even close.
And I don't remember either of them having the responsibility of paying their assistants' salaries out of their own pockets either.

That aside, there is absolutely no justifiable reason to pay a competent Nigerian coach in charge of the SE a fraction of what we pay a foreigner.

Dat wan na old school thinking and is a weak, self-defeating argument made in an attempt to supposedly make the case for local coaches over foreigners..

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:13 am 
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Damunk wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
How did I miss this post?

Wow, it captures a chunk of what we should all be concerned about. We are willing to pay an enormous amount for a European to give us what a local can give us 10 folds! What is the value that Rohr has really brought to Nigerian football since he was hired that a Nigerian could not have for half the financial outlay?
Chief, why would you pay a Nigerian half of what you are paying a foreigner for the same job?
Isn't that part of the problem we are talking about?
Those days are long gone.

We never paid Keshi or Oliseh "half" of what we are paying Rohr. Not even close.
And I don't remember either of them having the responsibility of paying their assistants' salaries out of their own pockets either.

That aside, there is absolutely no justifiable reason to pay a competent Nigerian coach in charge of the SE a fraction of what we pay a foreigner.

Dat wan na old school thinking and is a weak, self-defeating argument made in an attempt to supposedly make the case for local coaches over foreigners..


All over the world, 'expatriates' who are employed on EXPAT terms always earn more than 'locals' doing the same job based on items that are added to the employment contract to cater for the expat having to 'relocate' temporarily.

Note that you can have EXPAT on EXPAT terms and EXPAT on LOCAL terms.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:44 am 
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Damunk wrote:
We never paid Keshi or Oliseh "half" of what we are paying Rohr. Not even close.
And I don't remember either of them having the responsibility of paying their assistants' salaries out of their own pockets either.


Quote:
Sunday Oliseh: NFF Pays Gernot Rohr Four Times The Salary Paid To Stephen Keshi And I


The German tactician has been in charge of the Super Eagles since 2016, but the Nigerian legend believes the former Gabon coach has been working under better conditions than any local coach ever enjoyed.

Sunday Oliseh has taken a swipe at the Nigeria Football Federation for paying Super Eagles head coach Gernot Rohr four times the salary the football body paid to him or the late Stephen Keshi while occupying the post.

The former Juventus midfielder is also displeased that while the NFF usually held on to the stipends of Nigerian coaches, Rohr’s wages have often been paid as at when due.

Former international Keshi skippered Nigeria to glory at the 1994 Africa Cup of Nations in Tunisia, and 19 years later, he guided the Super Eagles to their third continental crown. In so doing, the late gaffer became the first-ever Nigerian to lift the AFCON as a player and a coach.

But he complained incessantly of unpaid wages and bonuses during his four-year spell in charge of the team.

Oliseh, another member of that Tunisia ’94 winning squad, only lasted four months as Super Eagles coach, quitting unceremoniously due to unresolved issues with the Nigeria Football Federation, including unpaid salaries.

The ex-Ajax ace feels it’s unfair treating a coach who has won nothing with the team better than individuals who helped the country to triumphs.

“Truth is, we have a foreign coach now and from what I heard and know, he is being paid four times the wages Stephen Keshi and I were paid, and these are two players (himself and Keshi) who won trophies for Nigeria,” Oliseh told The Punch.

“I’ve never heard Gernot Rohr complain about wages.

“Keshi, while he was coaching, was always complaining, when I was coaching for four months, I was unpaid. For six months, my assistants were unpaid, so I had to leave the job; we were also being frustrated.”

https://soccernet.ng/2020/04/sunday-oli ... and-i.html

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:26 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Unfortunately not, wages should be based on expected productivity. Why would I pay 10 times more if I can get same productivity for paying less. If you are willing to make such payment, I would not call it astute but foolish. Have you gone to the store and paid $20 for an item that you can get in another store for $1? Makes little sense.

txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
How did I miss this post?

Wow, it captures a chunk of what we should all be concerned about. We are willing to pay an enormous amount for a European to give us what a local can give us 10 folds! What is the value that Rohr has really brought to Nigerian football since he was hired that a Nigerian could not have for half the financial outlay?



We are still regurgitating this tired argument?

It has very little to do with how much one is paid. The reality is that the relationship is not linear...

Coaching ability is first and foremost about the creative intellect and management capability.

While finances can and do serve as incentive/motivation, you have to first have the ability.

And those abilities are not a function of race.

While in theory, there might be locals who can give us ten fold what Rohr does, there are equally other Europeans who can give us ten fold what Rohr does!

And for that matter, there are locals who can give us ten times less than what Rohr is doing atm!

This debate is long past its sell by date...

There is little doubt that in the group of retired Nigerian pro footballers, who have made the transition to coaching, that we have some top candidates. But there's also little doubt that the conditions created by the NFF are not conducive for them to thrive.

And those conditions similarly impact foreign coaches, albeit to varying degrees- late salary payments, poor pitches, player welfare, poor infrastructures, poor logistics planning, poor management, etc

That is why threads/debates like this are not helpful, where the focus should rightly be on the NFF...



Not quite sure what your point is wrt my post...

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Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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