Oruma cries Foul

muzines · Post by **muzines** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:39 pm

Paveman wrote:
In any case, although not advocating a plce in the final 22, it is inconceivable that Oruma was not included in the 41 person list.

It is not inconceivable, he's not on the list of 41. Simple. That's very conceivable.

furiously frank · Post by **furiously frank** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:42 pm

If Uche Kalu made the squad then we can forget about Oruma's non-inclusion, but now that Uche is not in, I bet you CCC will live to regret this decision. Mark my words....especially if something happens to JJ

monkeypost · Post by **monkeypost** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:11 pm

why can't he understand that we have young combative midfielders in his place now, he did not make good use of his oppurtunity back in the days of the mafia.

Larry Ashagbe · Post by **Larry Ashagbe** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:21 pm

Oruma is no longer interestedin playing for Nigeria after being dropped at the WC.

Osasu Obayiuwana headline is misleading when a player is not interested why would he cry foul?

Jiggerman21 · Post by **Jiggerman21** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:59 pm

hmmmmmmmmmm,

maybe he will be too much competition for JJ.

MI5 · Post by **MI5** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:15 am

Oruma, make you no worry continue to do what you do best and for sure every dog has his day...

Jmal · Post by **Jmal** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:47 am

I WISH ORUMA DID PLAY BECAUSE HE IS ON FIRE AT THE MOMENT..

I REMMEBER HE WASTED IMPORTANT CHANCE BUT WHEN HE CAME TO REPLACE OKOCHA HE WAS VERY GOOD...I LIKED HE CREATED 2 CHANCES FOR AGAWONDER...CCC MUST MAKE HIS MIND CLEAR BECAUSE WEATHER ORUMA SHOULD PLAY OR NOT WHY HE DID'NT GIVE THE MAN A CHANCE ??? IF BABANGIDA GETS THE CHANCE THEN WHY NOT ORUMA WHO PLAYS A BETTER CLUB THAN CHINA CHING CHUNG WHOUN...

Jmal · Post by **Jmal** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:48 am

I WISH ORUMA DID PLAY BECAUSE HE IS ON FIRE AT THE MOMENT..

I REMMEBER HE WASTED IMPORTANT CHANCE BUT WHEN HE CAME TO REPLACE OKOCHA HE WAS VERY GOOD...I LIKED HE CREATED 2 CHANCES FOR AGAWONDER...CCC MUST MAKE HIS MIND CLEAR BECAUSE WEATHER ORUMA SHOULD PLAY OR NOT WHY HE DID'NT GIVE THE MAN A CHANCE ??? IF BABANGIDA GETS THE CHANCE THEN WHY NOT ORUMA WHO PLAYS A BETTER CLUB THAN CHINA CHING CHUNG WHOUN...

omey2k4 · Post by **omey2k4** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 12:49 am

Right now i dont vare about no CCC because we are going to the ANC with a weak mid-field full of overhyped footballers. :x

theYemster · Post by **theYemster** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:28 pm

I haven't figured G4Life out yet but Cyber Saint's response faiuls to surprise me. Even if Chukwu included my dear departed grandmother in his team, CS and his cosuin Ezesportsworld would still fail to see anything wrong in it.

In all honesty, based on current form, Oruma's name should be second only to Okocha's in the present list of attacking midfielders.

Muzines I think it is high time you started reasoning like a future MD. If you want to use that your warped logic to exclude Oruma, then you might as well exclude Kanu and Okocha from them team cos they have all at one time or the other missed crucial penalties for us. Finidi and Siasia also should have long been banished into oblivion. It is quite interesting that you blame Oruma for missing the game tying penalty against Senegal while you conviniently ignore the fact that Garba Lawal whose slipup created the opportunity for Senegal to score the go-ahead and potential game-winning goal is included in the team. Maybe if Garba hadn't messed up earlier, Oruma may not have had the opportunity to mess up later. Bottom line, Oruma is in the greates form of his life and playing consistently in a competitive league, while Lawal is clubless and is still his average self and yet he makes the team; it is okay if you do not wish to condemn that double standard but please don't make excuses for it.

theYemster · Post by **theYemster** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:30 pm

omey2k4 wrote:Right now i dont vare about no CCC because we are going to the ANC with a weak mid-field full of overhyped footballers. :x

I know; two of our better prospects aside from Okocha, Oruma and Kalu are excluded. God help us should JJ get red carded or worse get injured.

Enugu II · Post by **Enugu II** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:32 pm

furiously frank wrote:If Uche Kalu made the squad then we can forget about Oruma's non-inclusion, but now that Uche is not in, I bet you CCC will live to regret this decision. Mark my words....especially if something happens to JJ

I guess Obodo cannot play there? IMO, Obodo and Osaze (if he makes the squad) can play in JJ's position. Ofc course, trthey are not anywhere close to JJ but who is? Certainly not Oruma either.

FRankly, I sympathize with Oruma because he has played well and should perfectly expect to have been called up. However, the call ups are strictly the coach's decision. There are others who also expected to be called up including Iwuanyanwu's Ozurumba.

theYemster · Post by **theYemster** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:34 pm

EII, of all the choices, Oruma best has the experience and close enuff ability to sub for JJ.

Yes callups are coaches decisions but there must be some semblance of logic to it. Why invite a clubless average player like Garba Lawal and a Chinese div 2 player and not invite an inform player like Oruma playing consistenyl and competitively in a far superior league? Unless there is a discipline problem? It doesn't add up.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:54 pm

Right now every right thinking guy should just sit down and watch. Chukwu is either mad, a thief or controlled by thieves which means he's an accessory to theft. If a man coaches a team for more than a year playing lots of friendlies with alot of questionable names in his squad, it shouldn't be surprising to see players who haven't played in a season and sub par players playing in junk leagues being selected in place of better qualified players. I'm not enthusiastic about this coming ANC and I won't bother trying to find where to watch or catch live commentary.

Dodo · Post by **Dodo** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 7:21 pm

i feel for the guy, every hey you from the land has been given a chance, why not a player that actually plays for his team in a top league and involved in European competition

Enugu II · Post by **Enugu II** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:18 pm

theYemster wrote:EII, of all the choices, Oruma best has the experience and close enuff ability to sub for JJ.

Yes callups are coaches decisions but there must be some semblance of logic to it. Why invite a clubless average player like Garba Lawal and a Chinese div 2 player and not invite an inform player like Oruma playing consistenyl and competitively in a far superior league? Unless there is a discipline problem? It doesn't add up.

TheYemster:

IMO, one can argue if a core player such as JJ, Kanu, Yobo, Utaka, Olofinjana, etc - is not invited. It would be crystal clear that those guys will be on everyone's radar as probable invitees.

I suggest that Oruma is no where near that class. I would consider Oruma as being on exactly the same level on which Lawal was considered i.e a fringe player call-up. Which translates to arguable. Oruma's call up is at best debatable and not a sure thing. In such cases, the coach certainly should have the benefit of doubt.

Btw, does it not make sense that the coach selects Lawal whom he has used recently and who has performed for him? Furthermore, does it not make sense that Lawal would be preferred since he plays at the problematic leftside of the midfield for which no clear starter has been found? How many players would CCC have to to invite at the attacking midfield position? He called up Osaze who was having a heck of a season in Belgium. He invited Obodo who is versatile enough to play anywhere in the middle and is playing extremmely well in Perugia. Would CCC have to invite every attacking midfielder playing well in Europe? My brother, there are other positions that he has to cover as well.

Furthermore, you make it sound like Oruma is part of the core. FACT is he is not part of the core. Furthermore, there are several other good players playing at his position -- read Obodo and Osaze and perhaps others. Oruma, in fact, would have had to impress mightily to be in the 22 if he was invited to Faro. Not so for the likes of JJ etc.

I submit that the above is the logical trend that you seek.

NOTE: Do you think Ozurumba should have invited since he was the NPL top scorer? Why did CCC invite Ezenwa and not Ozurumba when Ezenwa was a mere reserve or at best part time starter at Enyimba? What's your take?

Cyber Saint · Post by **Cyber Saint** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:31 pm

The Yemster
You guys argue circularly, and I don't think I like it. So kindly address some of the issues I raised before:

#1. Is Oruma going to be the make or break player for us at the ANC. In other words, is Oruma going to be the reason why we lose or win the ANC?
#2. Secondly, even if Oruma was invited, is he going to start over Okocha at the ANC? If not, why then are we fighting over a player who, at best, is gonna start on the bench?
#3. Some of the players Oruma started his career with are the household names in the SE of today, notably Kanu, Babayaro etc. So, if Oruma is that that good, why has he remained a fringe player for so long? And I'm talking being a footnote in every coach's program?

#4. Finally, this isn't gonna be the first time a coach would exercise discretion in players invitation. Westerhoff did the same thing - he refused to invite Chidi Nwanu, despite the fact that Nwanu was making waves at Anderletch, b'cos Keshi was then playing well. He also ignored Owubokiri b'cos he's got an in-form Rasheed Yekini. So what's the difference between what CCC is doing and what Westerhoff did???

And I still got more questions, just wanna give you and others with your point of view time to address the above before I continue.

Over to you, sir

Post by **Waffiman** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:36 pm

The funny thing about thread is ignorance. I am sorry guys you just do not have a clue.

I love Wilson, he is very talented but one must ask why is he where he is today? I do not like to down on a player.but ask Wilson why did he play so badly in the Ireland friendly? Ask him why did he break rules and smuggle a girl all night before the friendly in which he was earmarked for a very important role? I will like to ask wilson who caught him in the morning with some young girl he was trying to smuggle out of the hotel?

Wilson wire finish, he nor fit pass ball, and he was so rubbish, he almost cost s the game against Ireland, he was dropped from the WC squad and replaced by Oboirah for this misdemeanour. Wilson I understand your beef this time around but please tell the truth about the past. You yab big time and please stop your wayo, you know the score.

Dog Bruno · Post by **Dog Bruno** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:14 am

omey2k4 wrote:Muzines,Green4life & Cybersaint u guys are so wrong.If u guys say it was Oruma's fault we lost to Senegal then why is Kanu still on our team?Can U guys recall eh was the guy that lost the 1st PK against Cameroon in 2000?
That is no excuse to judge any player!Look i can dwell on the past,and if i start pointing fingers then many players shouldt make theteam.Wilson Oruma's exclusion is crazy!Out of all the so called over hyped Mid-Fielders in our team,he is the only Nigerian that has been a regular for Sochaux and has been doing excellently well for his club.Look at the list of players in camp now,4 players havernt been playing football for sometime now and u guys are talking.Its mighty shame because in Mali'02 guys were scared to take the PK and Oruma took it and lost it.I guess Baggio shouldnt have played for Italy after USA'94 then.

Stag, relax a bit...it's all about, to whom you lost the match, and resulting (magnified and amplified) consequences.

It's one thing to lose to Cameroun (a renowned football power house) on PK'S, and another thing to lose to Senegal (non established power house), when you desperately needed a chance to stay in the game.....Pk was delivered on a silver platter for a tie and he blew it.

It's generally, more tolerant by fans (at least from my exposure), to lose by (duration of "regulation-time") pk's, than to lose and miss a pk (during regulation-time) to a team termed to be beneath you.

That Pk Oruma missed, was hard fought/earned, and should have been as good as Gold, point blank.

Baggio missed a pk against Brasil (Power house) at end of regulation time and it's more tolerable, since someone had to eventually miss.

In addition, Baggio's miss was a lot more tolerable by soccer fans world wide, because he played his heart out to get ITALY to that WC stage/finals...if it were someone else, the reaction might have been different.

Not to say it, but Oruma was no Baggio, and he denied Nigeria an opportunity to state a claim..at end of regulation-time PK'S. Oruma's got the Scarlet letter at the moment (unfortunately), and some will avoid him like a plague. Life's like a duck, when it gets hard, somebody gets phucked....and Oruma is categorically at the receiving end.

You don't see anyone hounding Ikpeba for his dis-allowed PK against the Pu ssy Cats, Do You?

Go Figure.

Cyber Saint · Post by **Cyber Saint** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:45 am

Bingo!

soccermentality · Post by **soccermentality** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:59 am

Conclusion:

I have read all the post about this Oruma issue. while some people made sense others made little or no sense at all. Some people think that because they can type up a few words in english, they will just come here and say things without thinking about the topic at hand. Anyway, I will encourage those that didn't make sense to think about Oruma's position that is, how much experience he must have accumulated, his level of exposure and his current form before making contribution on issues. or atleast compare him to the so called youngsters in the camp. while the youngsters must have impressed you in some way or another, you must not forget the past games of Oruma who captained the gold wining under 17 in 1993. played out his heart in most games he was invited to play. it must be known that every game can't be the best game for a professional footballers, there is always room for mistakes, yes he has had bad games but you must not crucify him for his past mistakes because we all make mistakes.
On CCC, I will not blame him for his non inclusion of Wilson oruma, Oliseh and other former eagles who are in top forms for their clubs in his list. I will rather blame NFA or some Mafia who sit in their offices and dictates to the coaches who to pick for tournaments. Until those people leave offices things like this will continue to happen. my heart goes to Wilson Oruma.

green4life · Post by **green4life** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:40 am

Waffi, thanks for reminding these brothers about Oruma's shameful performance against Ireland .... the same game where teenager femi opanbumi more than held his own as a left wingback... that was shameful to say the least.

Omey2k and others, if you cared to read my post, you'd notice that I DID NOT blame him for the Senegal loss or the missed PK... my beef with dude is that when he gets an opportunity to make himself relevant for the eagles, he has failed to seize the opportunity time & time again... SImply

put, the brother HAS FAILED to live up to his expectations and that's why he keeps finding himself on the outside looking in, begging for favors & call ups. PLease, tell me the last time Oruma shined as a Super eagle... when did he make a play that saved us from the jaws of defeat? Zero... Zilch...

Simply put Oruma is surplus to requirements right now... he is not a goalie.. not a defender... and definitely not a striker... those are the areas where he could have made a difference... you ask who will fill JJ's role? ... Any one who ask's that question has not watched Obodo play a full game yet... This dude is effective (minus the unnecessary show boating) as a 2 way midfielder... then you have a brother like Osaze who is being groomed for life after JJ... then you have new comers like Olofi who plays a position that the eagles are desperately lacking: DM... SO what are people talking about here? Oruma is a good player but he's inclusion or exclusion will not make any difference ... his time unfortunatly has past him due to his failure to capitalize on his numerous chances.

Robbynice · Post by **Robbynice** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:49 am

Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:Robby, Muzines, Cybersaint:

I am disappointed in you guys. I cant believe you are blaming Oruma for that missed PK, haba! And I thought you guys understood the game! Now let's see...
Kanu - missed a CRUICIAL one against cameroun
Okocho - missed one against Brazil
Finidi - missed an important one against Ghana during the same ANC.

I am not blaming Oruma for missing that PK. Even the great ones have missed important PK in the past. Patini of France, Zico of Brazil, Oga JJ of Nigeria not to mention Roberto Baggio of Italy comes to mind. But like people said, how did he get himself into the position he is now? Note that he is not having this problem with one coach. He had the same problem when Onigbinde and Amodu were the coach of the national team. Besides even if he was invited who is he going to wrestle a roster spot from?