Okocha vs Zidane, the similarity

mastermind · Post by **mastermind** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:21 am

smallpikin wrote:I believe JJ has better all skills than ZZ. If both played for France, ZZ would be starting from the bench.

only is JJ was white. makelele will be on the bench instead cos they will play both of them.

mblack76 · Post by **mblack76** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:23 am

Waffiman wrote:
smallpikin wrote:I believe JJ has better all skills than ZZ. If both played for France, ZZ would be starting from the bench.
Wow! You are joking. Right!

Waffiman,
Dont mind them. Its a well established pattern on this forum. There is always this comparison after ever European/ international game. The trend is always like this.
1) Who was man of the match or who had a good game during the match in question
2) Then follows the usual compared with a SE player (very good comparison in my opinion as it puts things into perspective)
4) And then the conclusion. The SE player is always better than the MOM. Thats the part I find hard to understand. Not that a SE cant be better than the MOM in question but in most cases the conclusion is based on patriotism. And dare not challange that !

so__so_scandalous · Post by **so__so_scandalous** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:26 am

mkizito76 wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
smallpikin wrote:I believe JJ has better all skills than ZZ. If both played for France, ZZ would be starting from the bench.
Wow! You are joking. Right!
Waffiman,
Dont mind them. Its a well established pattern onthis forum. Theer is always this comparison after ever European game. The trend is always like this.
1) Who was man of the match or who had a good game during the match in question
2) Then follows the usual compared with a SE player (very good comparison in my opinion as it puts things into perspective)
4) And then the conclusion. The SE player is always better than the MOM. Thats the part I find hard to understand. Not that a SE cant be better than the MOM in question but in most cases the conclusion is based on patriotism. And dare not challange that !

o boy sharrap dere. Don't let me bring up that freekick that JJ used to silence all of you people in Yaiounde back in January. Was that not the most devastattingly accurate free kick CAmeroon has ever suffered?

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:28 am

mkizito76, dont deceive yourself. I daresay JJ can match up Zidane square. In a French or Brazilian shirt JJ will be a starter.

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:29 am

so__so_scandalous wrote:
mkizito76 wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
smallpikin wrote:I believe JJ has better all skills than ZZ. If both played for France, ZZ would be starting from the bench.
Wow! You are joking. Right!
Waffiman,
Dont mind them. Its a well established pattern onthis forum. Theer is always this comparison after ever European game. The trend is always like this.
1) Who was man of the match or who had a good game during the match in question
2) Then follows the usual compared with a SE player (very good comparison in my opinion as it puts things into perspective)
4) And then the conclusion. The SE player is always better than the MOM. Thats the part I find hard to understand. Not that a SE cant be better than the MOM in question but in most cases the conclusion is based on patriotism. And dare not challange that !
o boy sharrap dere. Don't let me bring up that freekick that JJ used to silence all of you people in Yaiounde back in January. Was that not the most devastattingly accurate free kick CAmeroon has ever suffered?

DAMN!!!

airwolex · Post by **airwolex** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:33 am

In pure footballing terms ZZ is better. He is the more effective player for sure, and might be marginally better technically (debatable) but whether you haters like it or not Oga is not far behind. There is nothing that ZZ can do with the ball that Okocha can't, infact I've seen Okocha do stuff with the ball that ZZ might be hard pressed to emulate. Where Okocha flounders is his inability to sense when its time to stop show-boating and do the simple things. This IMHO (In my hone opinion) is the reason Okocha is NOT better than ZZ.

For all the people that doubt Okocha, I implore you to watch last sesons game againts Spurs when he hit the bar/post a total of 5 times. He had shots with his left leg and right leg from considerable distances, he bossed the game so much that Spurs fans on their message boards admited that no one player had ever dominated their team like so. For me Okocha is the most gifted player Africa as ever produced.

mblack76 · Post by **mblack76** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:33 am

so__so_scandalous wrote:
mkizito76 wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
smallpikin wrote:I believe JJ has better all skills than ZZ. If both played for France, ZZ would be starting from the bench.
Wow! You are joking. Right!
Waffiman,
Dont mind them. Its a well established pattern onthis forum. Theer is always this comparison after ever European game. The trend is always like this.
1) Who was man of the match or who had a good game during the match in question
2) Then follows the usual compared with a SE player (very good comparison in my opinion as it puts things into perspective)
4) And then the conclusion. The SE player is always better than the MOM. Thats the part I find hard to understand. Not that a SE cant be better than the MOM in question but in most cases the conclusion is based on patriotism. And dare not challange that !
o boy sharrap dere. Don't let me bring up that freekick that JJ used to silence all of you people in Yaiounde back in January. Was that not the most devastattingly accurate free kick CAmeroon has ever suffered?

Yes it is the most devastating free kick we ever suffered. Talking about suffering I guess you know who should be trying to heal broken hearts. Does Cote D'Ivoire 84, Morrocco 88, Ghana/Nigeria 2000 bring back any memories? Better still does the Ikpeba penalty of 2000 and APOY 2003 help? Atleast we had just one free kick. You got tons of sufferings from one Country. If there is one country that should not talk when suffering is concerned it is Nigeria. Go figure!

mblack76 · Post by **mblack76** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:35 am

Thought wrote:mkizito76, dont deceive yourself. I daresay JJ can match up Zidane square. In a French or Brazilian shirt JJ will be a starter.

Were it not for assumptions and wishful thinking what else could some of you say? In club level where has Zizou played? where has JJ played? In national colours what has Zizou done ? What has JJ done?
Even when it is so clear some of you dont still see.

mblack76 · Post by **mblack76** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:39 am

airwolex wrote:In pure footballing terms ZZ is better. He is the more effective player for sure, and might be marginally better technically (debatable) but whether you haters like it or not Oga is not far behind. There is nothing that ZZ can do with the ball that Okocha can't, infact I've seen Okocha do stuff with the ball that ZZ might be hard pressed to emulate. Where Okocha flounders is his inability to sense when its time to stop show-boating and do the simple things. This IMHO (In my hone opinion) is the reason Okocha is NOT better than ZZ.

For all the people that doubt Okocha, I implore you to watch last sesons game againts Spurs when he hit the bar/post a total of 5 times. He had shots with his left leg and right leg from considerable distances, he bossed the game so much that Spurs fans on their message boards admited that no one player had ever dominated their team like so. For me Okocha is the most gifted player Africa as ever produced.

Thats a better statement. I never doubted JJ. He is awesome and the most gifted player in Africa in his position but Zidane is better. Good you know that.
Also why not implore JJ doubters (which I am not one) to watch all/many JJ matches. Would not be objective for them to watch just one. He sure had good and bad games. That was one of his good games. Zizou as well did have some pathetic games though
But as you summarized we are talking about overall judgement and I agree with you, Zizou is better.

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:44 am

mkizito76 wrote:
Thought wrote:mkizito76, dont deceive yourself. I daresay JJ can match up Zidane square. In a French or Brazilian shirt JJ will be a starter.
Were it not for assumptions and wishful thinking what else could some of you say? In club level where has Zizou played? where has JJ played? In national colours what has Zizou done ? What has JJ done?
Even when it is so clear some of you dont still see.

The choices JJ made in his footballing career may be a bit unclear to some of us... Zidane playing in the European setup has been a subtle yet powerful factor in his career, whether you recognize it or not. There is no wishful thinking in Okocha's ability. Okocha is a phenomenal player. You only get people like he once a decade (or 2). 8)

Dont be deceived, Okocha is way up there with the very best who ever kicked the round leather.

mblack76 · Post by **mblack76** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:47 am

Thought wrote:
mkizito76 wrote:
Thought wrote:mkizito76, dont deceive yourself. I daresay JJ can match up Zidane square. In a French or Brazilian shirt JJ will be a starter.
Were it not for assumptions and wishful thinking what else could some of you say? In club level where has Zizou played? where has JJ played? In national colours what has Zizou done ? What has JJ done?
Even when it is so clear some of you dont still see.
The choices JJ made in his footballing career may be a bit unclear to some of us... Zidane playing in the European setup has been a subtle yet powerful factor in his career, whether you recognize it or not. There is no wishful thinking in Okocha's ability. Okocha is a phenomenal player. You only get people like he once a decade (or 2). 8)

Dont be deceived, Okocha is way up there with the very best who ever kicked the round leather.

Who said JJ was not up there with the best? You are the one deceiving yourself. He is among the best but NOT and I repeat NOT at the same level as Zizou. Thats my point. Besides there are many Africans who have played in europe's 'top' teams so dont even say he could not because he was from Africa. He just was not good enough compared to the options in these teams. PSG got him cos that was what they needed and they paid TOP dollar for him. That was his level.

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:38 am

mkizito76, JJ could have gotten into almost any other team before his move to PSG. As I said, he made his choice. I submit, Zidane has something over Okocha - tactical awareness. This is what made Zidane crowned world player of the year 2x. JJ didnt develop that much. He is more of an individual baller. Stripped down to talent JJ has it over Zidane.

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:40 am

And my intention of pointing out the European setup was factor in Zidane's fortune of playing in the French Squad, and not to point out issues of race.

mblack76 · Post by **mblack76** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:05 am

Thought wrote:mkizito76, JJ could have gotten into almost any other team before his move to PSG. As I said, he made his choice. I submit, Zidane has something over Okocha - tactical awareness. This is what made Zidane crowned world player of the year 2x. JJ didnt develop that much. He is more of an individual baller. Stripped down to talent JJ has it over Zidane.

I dont think we were comparing particular attributes. We were talking about who was a better Baller. And again that to me was no contest!

tribalfootball.com · Post by **tribalfootball.com** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:08 am

Why do we have to comapare .?

mblack76 · Post by **mblack76** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:09 am

tribalfootball.com wrote:Why do we have to comapare .?

really ask me. Thats the same question I asked that brought about all this discussion.
This is the post that sparked all this

Waffiman,
Dont mind them. Its a well established pattern onthis forum. Theer is always this comparison after ever European game. The trend is always like this.
1) Who was man of the match or who had a good game during the match in question
2) Then follows the usual compared with a SE player (very good comparison in my opinion as it puts things into perspective)
4) And then the conclusion. The SE player is always better than the MOM. Thats the part I find hard to understand. Not that a SE cant be better than the MOM in question but in most cases the conclusion is based on patriotism. And dare not challange that !

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:16 am

mkizito76 wrote:
Thought wrote:mkizito76, JJ could have gotten into almost any other team before his move to PSG. As I said, he made his choice. I submit, Zidane has something over Okocha - tactical awareness. This is what made Zidane crowned world player of the year 2x. JJ didnt develop that much. He is more of an individual baller. Stripped down to talent JJ has it over Zidane.
I dont think we were comparing particular attributes. We were talking about who was a better Baller. And again that to me was no contest!

I suppose all one can say is that when 2 players of similar calibres are compared, the better one is really a subjective choice.

felarey · Post by **felarey** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:54 am

This thread cracks me up, bigtime. Comparing the world's very best baller with JJ. Have we forgotten so soon. Zizou has been doing his thing since WC '98, CL '99, Euro '00 etc. Zizou apart from dribbling, used to go through raping a whole set of midfield players by himself, he just couldn't be knocked off the ball. Was going through a wall of opposing players like they weren't even there with skills not limited to dribbling. Even fouling him was difficult. I love JJ, but I can't be biased enough when comparing him with Zinadine Zidane. Sorry to say this but I will consider Zizou in his prime to be JJ + Amokachie combined with the way his game was.

ROSSIKE · Post by **ROSSIKE** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:17 am

There's no proof that Zidane is more 'tactically aware' than Jay Jay. Those are mere words signifying little on the soccer field.

If Jay Jay had the sort of players around him that Zidane has, Jay Jay would be more effective than Zidane.

maceo4 · Post by **maceo4** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:17 am

There must be a reason y JJ favorite player is Zizzou, think about it

Theres no contest here....none at all

mblack76 · Post by **mblack76** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:15 am

maceo4 wrote:There must be a reason y JJ favorite player is Zizzou, think about it

Theres no contest here....none at all

Thank you. Atleast there is someone who talks sense here. And I will say again the word IF is really a life support to many here.
We are talking facts and someone comes with IF. Why compare a real thing with a non existent? Zizou( DOB June 23, 1972) is better than JJ (DOB August 14, 1973) period. No IF.Zizou has been the master planner in all teams he played for starting with Cannes to Bordeaux, Juve and now Real. JJ has had a relatively good career too (Eintretch, Fenerbache, PSG, Bolton). but his last 2 years at PSG were bad. Zizou does not know what it feels like to be on the bench putting aside injury. JJ knows what the bench feels like. Zizou has been consistent in his career from a small club and has risen to probably the highest. JJ on the other hand... well, they say he has been unfortunate with his choices ands background.
I would say the difference is clear. JJ is not up to Zizou

Doctor No · Post by **Doctor No** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:19 am

Mkizito76...go worry about Geremi or Kalla before coming here talking opak.

mblack76 · Post by **mblack76** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:27 am

Doctor No wrote:Mkizito76...go worry about Geremi or Kalla before coming here talking opak.

While you no go worry about learning manners and simple socializing. Does it not bother you that you are rejected everywhere you go?
Trying to make friends I see. Never too late to start a new beginning. Keep up