2 more World Cup spot !

Post by **juventuss** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:07 am

tsoolo wrote:
Akamoke wrote:I think Africa has enough spots for now, if we can consistently feature one team in the quarter finals and maybe sneak one team into the semi finals, then I will agree

I dont agree with you. I think that Africa should be given two more spots. Weve earned it.

explain how we have earned it ?
I hope Germany 06 will be better for us.

Akamoke · Post by **Akamoke** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:11 am

mastermind wrote:
Akamoke wrote:
Thought wrote:
torontoeagle wrote:I would like to see Africa get more spots, but in order for that to happen we have to justify to FIFA based on our performance at the World cup that we deserve to have more spots. Africa's performance at the 1998 World cup and 2002 World Cup hasn't been impressive. If I remember right, only one team advanced to the 2nd round of play on both occassions. Until we improve our overall performance at the World cup..........the issue of getting more spots will remain non-existent.
European countries have better chances at performing at the WC simply because they have more spots. If we have more spots chances are African countries will be regularly featured in the Q/F's. 2 less spots surely cannot be too much to ask for from the Europeans. They still got nearly 2x as much as other continents.
I disagree, case in point Brazil was the only South American team to make it to the quarter finals yet they won the World Cup, its about consistency. Argentina, Brazil and sometimes Paraguay or Chile makes it to the second round. More African teams making it to the second round will make it almost impossible for FIFa to deny us more spaces, in fact in 2006, if 2 African teams make it past round 1, I can see a case for an additional place, until then we have to work hard...
out fo 16 spots, only england, germany and turkey qualified for quater finals. that is 16-3 ratio, out of 5 african teams, 1 qualify and that is 5-1 ratio. Out of 3 asians 1 qualify, 3-1 ratio. south america is 5-1 ratio. north america is 1-1 ratio. Its now clear that they euro qualify more cos they have more spots period.

We are not disagreeing much here, why because as you see, we had an African team in the quarter finals, now, lets do the same next world cup and you will see me arguing for more spots, even for Asia if they can reproduce this feat next WC, consistecy is the key here..I do belive that Africa will get more spots in future, because I am expecting us to get better, Europe will suffer any loss in point and it will be justified then, but unfortunately not so now, its with heavy heart I say this..

lowzeewee · Post by **lowzeewee** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:12 am

Too bad Europeans just think they are better than the others.

Molue Conductor · Post by **Molue Conductor** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:13 am

what have we done with the 5 spots they have given to us...ok lets look at france 98

the quarter finals had
0 Africans...0/5
0 Asians....0/3
0 N americans...0/3
2 south Americans...2/5
6 Europeans (France croatia holland germany italy denmark)...6/8

2002
the quater finals had
1 African
1 Asian
1 N american
1 S. American
4 European (Germany, turkey, Spain, England)

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:15 am

torontoeagle wrote:Thought:

Very strong point. I will agree with you here. All thing's being equal we do deserve more spots........................but since that's not the case would you agree with me that we have to now prove to FIFA and the world that we merit more spots ?

I never thought otherwise.

Akamoke · Post by **Akamoke** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:15 am

Thought, all things being equal, we should have have about 8 spots (52/200 times 32) but in reality, its the performance of those 52 teams that matter most.

O a side note, is it hard to justify affirmative action whilst justifying my argument above, I await your comments, just a thought I had

torontoeagle · Post by **torontoeagle** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:15 am

Akamoke:
It couldn't have been said better..........

Courtesy of The TorontoEagle (Mayor of Toronto)

We are not disagreeing much here, why because as you see, we had an African team in the quarter finals, now, lets do the same next world cup and you will see me arguing for more spots, even for Asia if they can reproduce this feat next WC, consistecy is the key here..I do belive that Africa will get more spots in future, because I am expecting us to get better, Europe will suffer any loss in point and it will be justified then, but unfortunately not so now, its with heavy heart I say this..

mastermind · Post by **mastermind** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:19 am

whenever we qualify, they also make it more difficult my matching us against strong opponent in early rounds. see how brazil go through easy route to the finals. If nigeria wasn't in group of death, we will qualify for 2nd round in last world cup.

mastermind · Post by **mastermind** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:23 am

Scourge wrote:what have we done with the 5 spots they have given to us...ok lets look at france 98

the quarter finals had
0 Africans...0/5
0 Asians....0/3
0 N americans...0/3
2 south Americans...2/5
6 Europeans (France croatia holland germany italy denmark)...6/8

2002
the quater finals had
1 African
1 Asian
1 N american
1 S. American
4 European (Germany, turkey, Spain, England)

maybe if we are not being trapped into group of deaths, maybe will could have done better. They put naija against, argentina, england, and sweden in last world cup.

Enugu II · Post by **Enugu II** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:24 am

It is easy to look at the quarters and give it as a bench mark for determining WC places. IMO, reaching the quarters or even the second round should be evaluated by the proportion of teams that each federation had in the finals. I bet you that if Africa had two teams in each group as UEFA does you will surely see more African teams at the later stages.

Let the truth be told, politics and subjective arguments are critical in the number of berths available to each federation in the WC. Why simply regurgitate the UEFA position -- number of teams getting to the later stages. Why not change the argument and ask why can't we use a different criteria such as:

1. Proportion of teams that get to the next stage, or better
2. Proportion of FIFA members vieing for a WC berth. In such a case 5 teams out of 10 come out of South America while 5 out of over 45 come out of Africa!! You compare!
3. Why not use the exact quota used at the Youth competitions?

I mean there are numerous alternative and viable arguments and not just those proposed by UEFA.

lowzeewee · Post by **lowzeewee** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:30 am

Scourge, for the 1998 QF for the Europeans its 6/16, it seems like your total is 24 teams?

Also, there isn't a place for Oceania...

In 2002 WC, QF had "1 Asian"?Wrong! The 1 Asian is S. American! I am pretty sure that referee Byron Moreno was Ecuadorian...

Molue Conductor · Post by **Molue Conductor** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:39 am

mastermind wrote:
Scourge wrote:what have we done with the 5 spots they have given to us...ok lets look at france 98

the quarter finals had
0 Africans...0/5
0 Asians....0/3
0 N americans...0/3
2 south Americans...2/5
6 Europeans (France croatia holland germany italy denmark)...6/8

2002
the quater finals had
1 African
1 Asian
1 N american
1 S. American
4 European (Germany, turkey, Spain, England)
maybe if we are not being trapped into group of deaths, maybe will could have done better. They put naija against, argentina, england, and sweden in last world cup.

now chew on this, who made it out of the group of death, is it not the two European teams?

Cameroon had an easy group not so? and ireland made instead of them.

Remember no gorup had more than two Europen team in it(i think) so u cannot say that Europe is garanteed a semifinal spot.

Sout America deserves a spot head of Africa Because they always send at leas two or three teams into the next round
in 98 they sent 4 teams and in 2002 they sent 2 or 3

torontoeagle · Post by **torontoeagle** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:41 am

Mastermind: They do not intentionally match us against tough opponents. All teams are drawn into there respective groups fairly.
I guess you should blame us being put inthe group of death on the luck of the draw.

mastermind wrote:whenever we qualify, they also make it more difficult my matching us against strong opponent in early rounds. see how brazil go through easy route to the finals. If nigeria wasn't in group of death, we will qualify for 2nd round in last world cup.

Molue Conductor · Post by **Molue Conductor** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:43 am

lowzeewee wrote:Scourge, for the 1998 QF for the Europeans its 6/16, it seems like your total is 24 teams?

Also, there isn't a place for Oceania...

In 2002 WC, QF had "1 Asian"?Wrong! The 1 Asian is S. American! I am pretty sure that referee Byron Moreno was Ecuadorian...

Lowzeewee, this doesn't require much math as common sense tell me to score out of the maximum.
the maximum number of europen teams that can make it to the quarter finals is 8 so i'll score them out of 8 because it is impossible for all 16 eurpoean teams to make it...i hope u understand my explanation

mastermind · Post by **mastermind** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:47 am

we need more west african teams qualifying, cameroon, nigeria, senegal, ivory coast all will do well in wc 2006. all those weak teams like south africa and morrocco need to sit their #$% at home. I think CAF need to change their WCQ method so that only the best african players can qualify no the best from west, south, east, and north africa.

lowzeewee · Post by **lowzeewee** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:56 am

@Scourge: I thought you meant total since the other continents were counted on total.

Akamoke · Post by **Akamoke** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:01 am

mastermind wrote:we need more west african teams qualifying, cameroon, nigeria, senegal, ivory coast all will do well in wc 2006. all those weak teams like south africa and morrocco need to sit their #$% at home. I think CAF need to change their WCQ method so that only the best african players can qualify no the best from west, south, east, and north africa.

You mean CAF should change the WC qualifiers to suit you

Seriously, any team (including Tunisia) that makes it to the World cup would have deserved it. Why couldnt Ghana qualify ahead of Morocco in 1998 or Ivory Coast ahead of South Africa in 2002. Aparently the best teams in Africa need to be the best in qualifying as well, otherwise they will just be as ""best" as Nigeria were in the late 70s to early 80s

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:16 am

Akamoke wrote:Thought, all things being equal, we should have have about 8 spots (52/200 times 32) but in reality, its the performance of those 52 teams that matter most.

O a side note, is it hard to justify affirmative action whilst justifying my argument above, I await your comments, just a thought I had

There is a region of balance 8 spots for Europe will be very fair. They have 14 now which makes little sense. there are other African countries apart from the usual suspects that can be put in the bracket of Switzerland, Greece, etc. Affirmative action is justified. A lot of these African sides have enough players in the French, Belgian leagues to be just as competitive as the average sides.

Concacaf qualification spots is just as humorous. 3 spots for that region guarantees certain teams WC appearance.

Eagle Winged · Post by **Eagle Winged** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:18 am

If Africa should get 2 more spots, then why not Asia?

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:31 am

Eagle Winged, Which Asian teams do you think will be competitive at the WC? I mean after Saudi Arabia, what else?

PaJimoh · Post by **PaJimoh** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:31 am

It doesn't matter how many slot is given to Africa, Ghana will still not qualify

Sorry guys i just could no help that one.

On a serious note, we don't want another Zaire at the W/C. We have just enough, for now.

Eagle Winged · Post by **Eagle Winged** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:52 am

Thought wrote:Eagle Winged, Which Asian teams do you think will be competitive at the WC? I mean after Saudi Arabia, what else?

The exact same thing could, and is, said about Africa having more spots. Infact, you yourself have defended against similar comments in this very thread.

Thought · Post by **Thought** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:13 am

Yes, I have. I also made it clear that Africa has more footballing countries than other continents. Based on performances only Japan and Korea and probably Iran deserve WC appearances. Africa on the other hand has a handful of capable countries that will match some of these European representive. The ideal solution will be of course to give more spots to Asia, but tempering that with capability makes that impractical.

1. Nigeria
2. Cameroon
3. Senegal
4. Egypt
5. Ivory Coast
6. Ghana
7. Tunisia/Mali

With teams like these we have better chances of having a good showing at the knockout phases.

Cybereagles

2 more World Cup spot !

Re: Dont agree....