Nigerians that Pledge their loyality to the English Team

[GREENWHITEGREEN]

Dammy, race relation is better in the U.K than the U.S ?
I am gobsmacked.

[spurs]

there is nothing wrong supporting spurs. I should let you know that I am a SE fanatic and I send much of my free time contemplating what formation (Ayo Akinfe are you listening?) and personnel to deploy for the SE next match, much to my wife and therapist's disapproval. But, I have always been a spurs fan since John Chidozie played for them. It also didn't hurt that in the early to mid eighties (my childhood years) spurs played the most entertaining, albeit not always successful, football in England. Glen Hoddle was simply fantastic.

[heavyd]

There may be a bit of racism in the comments directed at Heskey, but in comparison to France, Portugal and Holland, countries that have substantial black populations, the Enlish in terms of race relations are far better than these other countries. The fact that black players may have captained these countries before England had a black captain does not hold water. If you have friends or family living in any of these countries, just ask them. Race relations is even better in the UK than the great USA!!!!

Dammy,

I cannot disagree with you more. You may have an argument that captaincy does not necessarily evidence racist agendas, however to go as far as proclaiming England is a better place than France or even the USA in terms of race relations is just madness. You forget that Paris was the birth place of Negritude and has admitted to its Academy Francaise the former President of Senegal, Leopold Sedar Senghor. France as a whole may not have the economic opportunities for immigrants as England, so most French immigrants rave about England being a better place to live than France. But in terms of race relations and particularly race relations as it touches and concerns football, the French are far ahead than the English.

As exhibt 1 consider the average English fans understanding of world football. They don't know anything outside their Premiership. Remember in Euro 1996, the stupid English pundits could not believe, Zola of Chelsea was not in the Italian team, especially in light of his wonderful first season at Chelsea. Unknown to the English soccer culture and very abundantly clear to everybody else, Zola was well past his prime by Euro 96. In fact, his transfer from Parma to Chelsea signified the decline of his football stock. Yet, ignorant English fans and their pundits were calling Zola as if he was the little prince, Roberto Baggio.

I used to play college soccer here in America and I had loads of English teammates and they always were shocked of the depth of my knowledge and understanding of not only world soccer but also English football. I knew they were all short-sighted pricks, when one of them told me that his bud, Dele Adebola, formerly of Birmingham, Crystal Palace and Las Palmas had declared his loyality to Nigeria and would now turn out for the Nigerian senior side. I laughed uncontrolably. The English guy actually thought our football was so remedial that Dele Adebola having not made the grade for England at the junior level, would stroll into National Stadium in Lagos and claim the number 11 shirt from Amunike (our number 11 at the time). Maybe in Granada, that nonsense would occur, but not in West Africa. They simply don't understand how developed our football is.

Secondly, the French have been going to francophone African countries to scout players for years. Yet, their English counterparts are just learning that there is talent in South America outside Brazil and Argentina. I remember when Villa signed Juan P. Angel. Gregory on Skysports at the time said he had not seen Angel play and from what he understood from his scouts, Angel was a Gus Poyet type Player. Gus Poyet type player???? the f**k. Last time I checked Poyet was an attacking midfielder, Angel has always been a pure striker. (from the time he was in Colombia to the his days in Argentina).

Thirdly, ask an Englishman what he thinks of Totti and he will give you some general description because he probably has never seen Totti play. They are a bunch of ignorant island people. All they know are the four corners of their Premiership. They probably do not even know that Christian Vieri is probably one of the best strikers of his generation. But, all they know is Shearer, who specializes in getting good coaches fired (the question is will Robson be next).

As for Americas part, just take a general survey of local, state and federal government in America and compare the number of Blacks and hispanic representation to the nonsense in the UK.

The significant difference between the UK and America is that the Blacks in the UK are all immigrants and may not feel comfortable making waves. However, in America, the Blacks were amongst the first people here. Furthermore, Blacks can argue that their ancestors' free labor under slavery and subsequently under Jim Crow and institutionally racism is what has created the perpetual under class that has enabled the country to develop at the pace it has. In America, Blacks have the confidence and right to complain in UK the Blacks have to take permission as visitors to complain. You can't even compare the two.


In short, England bashing is allowed, especially when they are so arrogant and ignorant.

spurs

It is obvious you have passionate hatred for the English... at the same time you seem passionate about an English team. Hmmm something not quite right there.

If you want to talk about people being "arrogant and ignorant" then you cant look any further than the good old US of A. I remember being in Florida during the sydney olympics where i experienced the most biased coverage ever of a sporting event. I spent a whole day trying to catch any news of Camerouns exploits in the soccer event - not a whisper. The whole day was full of USA this USA that. It was ridiculous. Any uk based CE member who says BBC coverage is biased i can tell u the USA is ten times worse!!

The "real" difference between blacks in the USA and the UK is that USA blacks have had a longer history (dating back to the 19th century) therefore they are much more a part of the society that UK blacks who only came here in numbers in the 1950's. It is not a case of not being able to complain, its a question of having enough numbers to create a force large enough to be reckoned with. And it is beginning to happen with more Black MP's, Ministers, high ranking Police officers, Top sports men etc that are beginning to emerge. It will take time but we will get there.

[Eagle Winged]

The amount of hypocrisy and nonsense being spoken in this thread is amazing.

[spurs]

heavyd,

I don't hate anybody, not at all. If I really hated the English why would I support Spurs or have a profound appreciation for English TV shows showed in Nigeria in the 1970s/80s. Besides, Spurs were amongst the very few clubs in England to take on foreign players. Furthermore, Spurs has always had a reputation of playing more continental "cultured" football, unlike the traditional kick and rush of other london clubs.

In any case, having an appreciation for English contribution to society, albeit through spurs, does not preclude me from having the courage to identify they injustices. Afterall, Soyinka loves Nigeria, but loaths our government. No contradiction there.

In any case, I have noticed Europeans are never afraid of making misstatements about Africa or African people because, in part, they feel confident that they have an accurate measure of who were are. In contrast, we are always being critical of our views and observations of European life, as though, in order to criticize or my observe, we have better be right 100% of the time. If 50% of what I said is accurate then it is probably 50% more accurate than any Englishman's analysis of Nigerian Football or African Football.

With all the colonies the English had, is it interesting that one rarely mets an Englishman that has lived in Africa. In contrast, the French always seem to have a relative or uncle that served in Africa and developed a sense of appreciation for the place. To have once ruled the world, the English, on average, have too localized a perspective on issues. Mind you, I agree the Americans are worse. But the Americans never claimed to be cultured.

As for your comments about America, I am not going to play that game of which slave master/colonial Master is better. Too many Nigerians of the last generation played that game, only to realize all slave/colonial masters believe the conquered are not worthy of full citizenship.

Spurs

[Damunk]

If 50% of what I said is accurate then it is probably 50% more accurate than any Englishman's analysis of Nigerian Football or African Football.

With all the colonies the English had, is it interesting that one rarely mets an Englishman that has lived in Africa. In contrast, the French always seem to have a relative or uncle that served in Africa and developed a sense of appreciation for the place. To have once ruled the world, the English, on average, have too localized a perspective on issues. Mind you, I agree the Americans are worse. But the Americans never claimed to be cultured.

Spurs,
Your first statement (blue) is excellent. I like the way you put it.

Unfortunately, your second statement is totally misguided, and I wonder where you got the impression from.

One of the first things that struck me in the first few years after arriving in the UK was the sheer number of middle aged and elderly English men and women we were meeting in our every day runnings that had lived in Nigeria. It was such a frequent occurence that for both myself and my iyawo it became no longer a big deal. We marvelled at how 'Oyinbo' were telling us about places both known and unknown. Port Harcourt, Jos, Kaduna, Benin....and of course all the nooks and crannies of Lagos itself. I even met one or two Oyinbos that were born in Lagos and went to schools such as 'Corona' and others (they were younger of course).

I like your points but you do make a number of sweeping assumptions.

[Talk IT]

Though there is some element of racism thats at play here, i think the real reason people are coming down on hesky is because they thought he wasn't good enough to make the team in the first place. To the british fans, Heskey is just like Agali. If CCC include Agali in our world cup sqaud ahead of other strikers we think is better there would be an outcry in this forum. Then if CCC went ahead to play Agali and he caused a foul that lead to a goal, there would be even more outcry from we fans. Even if Yobo caused a penalty, the outcry against Agali will be more because most of us think he is not good enough to be there in the first place.