Should ANC in SA be dismantled?????

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Mzekezeke
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Post by Mzekezeke »

Tinaye wrote:Intersting topic gentlemen.

First of all I have to take issue with CIC OLD BOY describing Ramaphosa as a sell out.(INFACT I TAKE EXCEPTION TO THIS :evil: )
You have to realise that during the early 90's the most important thing for the ANC was to have free and fair elections although they had the upper hand the De Clerk goverment still had a lot of power and they wanted some concessions from the ANC side. It was impractical for Ramaphosa to achieve all the conditions that you refer to in your post.
CIC OLD BOY you should realise that politics is a game of give and take, while the agreement Ramaphosa walked away with was not the best he achieved the most important thing for the oppressed peoples of South Africa, SA's 1st democratic elections.
Ramaphosa is a true hero of the people and he is by no means a sell out.
May I also point out to you that Ramaphosa is not even involved in politics at the moment.
Also reversing the injustices of the past is not an overnight job this takes years even decades especially in a society as complicated as SA.
You just can't go up to whitey in a modern democracy and say "I want your land and money you stole it from our forefathers". Its a recipe for disaster. I should know I'm from Zimbabwe. :D

MANDOZA I just believe that its a question of political maturity. In Zimbabwe we also had a some what emotional attachement to Zanu PF, but once we became hungry and grew sick and tired of Mugabes rhetoric we severed this attachment.
Also there is a difference between Zimbabwe and SA while the ANC draws its support across all of SA's ethnic lines i.e Zulu, Xhosa, Suthu..etc. In Zim it was different the Ndebeles backed Nkomo's Zapu and the Shona's Mugabes Zanu PF.
I also believe that the South Africans would never tolerate Mbeki abusing SA(there are far too many guns in SA :lol: ) the way Mugabe is abusing Zimbabwe.
Also we have have been independent for 23 years and there is a whole generation that was born after 1980 who do not remember Rhodesia at all. What I am trying to get at is that the younger generatin coming of age in the new SA are not going to give a flying *%@& about the ANC's role in the struggle if their are no jobs and food for them, they will base their vote on who can deliver whatever it is they want not who did what in the liberation struggle :o .
Well said Tinaye. I guess we are roughly at where Zimbabwe was after 10 years of independence.
Patrick Ntsoelengo,Nelson Dladla,Petros Nzimande, Abednigo Ngcobo,Doctor Khumalo,Vusi Lamola,Gerald Dlamini,Simom Lehoko,Silvester Kole,Lucas Radebe,Jan Lichaba, Leonard Likoebe,Edson Mguyo, Arie Khongoane,Marks Maponyanye,Donald Khuse, Jabu Pule, Mark Tovey, Zebulon Nhlapo,Gabriel Tikkie Khoza,Moran Khulu,Michael Dlamini,Johannes Mofokeng, Wellinton Manyathi,Jingles Perreira....... to be continued....Amhakhosi Kaizer Chiefs!!!!!!!
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Mzekezeke
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Post by Mzekezeke »

omotori wrote:Mandoza,
whatever happened to Steve Biko's "Black Consciousness" movement ?
omotori the BC was eventually driven underground because of harassment form the state and its members joined the ANC in exile. It eventually disbanded. The Vice President Jacob Zuma and his ex-wife Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma who is the Foreign Affairs Minister are all former BC members and friends of the late Bantu Biko.
Patrick Ntsoelengo,Nelson Dladla,Petros Nzimande, Abednigo Ngcobo,Doctor Khumalo,Vusi Lamola,Gerald Dlamini,Simom Lehoko,Silvester Kole,Lucas Radebe,Jan Lichaba, Leonard Likoebe,Edson Mguyo, Arie Khongoane,Marks Maponyanye,Donald Khuse, Jabu Pule, Mark Tovey, Zebulon Nhlapo,Gabriel Tikkie Khoza,Moran Khulu,Michael Dlamini,Johannes Mofokeng, Wellinton Manyathi,Jingles Perreira....... to be continued....Amhakhosi Kaizer Chiefs!!!!!!!
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cic old boy
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Post by cic old boy »

Mandoza: Thanks for the offer of the SA presidency, but I believe you have more qualified people than me to do a proper job. The only problem is that the ANC leadership, their corporate sponsors and the white elite won't let it happen.

My sentiments about Ramaphosa and the rest of the ANC leadership are shared by many S Africans including Winnie Mandela. If I find the time I could provide more detail about how the hopes of millions were betrayed by the people they trusted with their interests.

My brother, that is the reality of Africa - the margins b/w the aspirations we had about liberation and what was actually delivered are just too wide. We know that the so-called necessary "compromises" and "realism" always meant that Africans got shafted and nothing changed.
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Mzekezeke
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Post by Mzekezeke »

cic old boy wrote:Mandoza: Thanks for the offer of the SA presidency, but I believe you have more qualified people than me to do a proper job. The only problem is that the ANC leadership, their corporate sponsors and the white elite won't let it happen.

My sentiments about Ramaphosa and the rest of the ANC leadership are shared by many S Africans including Winnie Mandela. If I find the time I could provide more detail about how the hopes of millions were betrayed by the people they trusted with their interests.

My brother, that is the reality of Africa - the margins b/w the aspirations we had about liberation and what was actually delivered are just too wide. We know that the so-called necessary "compromises" and "realism" always meant that Africans got shafted and nothing changed.
Please provide the detalis (i.e links) of these sentiments.
It may surprise you but I do actually speak to a few SAN's, like my Mother, Brothers, Sisters, Cousins, Friends ...etc and there is a cross section of varying opinions but none of them would ever call Ramaphosa a sell out. As for the ANC I believe they have become too comfortable and as I stated earlier this will eventually lead to their downfall.
Patrick Ntsoelengo,Nelson Dladla,Petros Nzimande, Abednigo Ngcobo,Doctor Khumalo,Vusi Lamola,Gerald Dlamini,Simom Lehoko,Silvester Kole,Lucas Radebe,Jan Lichaba, Leonard Likoebe,Edson Mguyo, Arie Khongoane,Marks Maponyanye,Donald Khuse, Jabu Pule, Mark Tovey, Zebulon Nhlapo,Gabriel Tikkie Khoza,Moran Khulu,Michael Dlamini,Johannes Mofokeng, Wellinton Manyathi,Jingles Perreira....... to be continued....Amhakhosi Kaizer Chiefs!!!!!!!

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