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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:20 pm 
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It is obvious that the South Americans came to the World Cup with their best representatives. The same cannot be said of Africa - a fact underscored with the absence of Egypt.

We are currently using the euorpean format, where the countries are divided into groups. Depending on the group your country is, it might be easy for you or difficult to qualify. The european format that CAF is using do not necessarily bring the best teams, because depending on the group you are in, you might find it easy or not.

The South Americans on the other hand end up playing each other. For example, each of the South American representatives to the world cup played each other during the qualifying series.

In our case, just like the europeans, we did not meet each other - Ivory Coast did not play Cameroon, Nigeria did not play Ghana, Nigeria did not play Ivory Coast or Algeria. So, our representatives were not very well tested during the qualification series like the South Americans were. Any wonder now, that the South Americans are justifying their qualification to the world cup, and representing their sub-continent very well. The brought their best.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:24 pm 
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Not that simple. Logistics would be a major challenge and 52 nations cant engage themselves like 10 nations.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:27 pm 
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More importantly the SA teams are battle tested after playing teams like Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay home and away, yet we play Tunisia and Kenya.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:30 pm 
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It has nothing to do with the format. We should study and perhaps attempt to emulate their organization and training methods from the grassroots level

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:31 pm 
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There are like 10 topics open on the same thing. A qualifying system akin to South America's is not logistically possible. The closest we can get to it is one similar to Asia's. Here's the example I posted in another thread:

Example

1st round (same as current system, double round-robin, only group winners advance though)
(using the same groups from 2010 qualifying, group winners in italics)

Group 1: Cameroon, Cape Verde, Tanzania, Mauritius
Group 2: Guinea, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Namibia
Group 3: Benin, Angola, Uganda, Niger
Group 4: Nigeria, South Africa, Sierra Leone, Eq. Guinea
Group 5: Ghana, Gabon, Libya, Lesotho
Group 6: Algeria, Gambia, Senegal, Liberia
Group 7: Cote d'Ivoire, Mozambique, Madagascar, Botswana
Group 8: Morocco, Rwanda, Mauritania
Group 9: Burkina Faso, Tunisia, Burundi, Seychelles
Group 10: Mali, Sudan, Congo, Chad
Group 11: Zambia, Togo, Swaziland
Group 12: Egypt, Malawi, Congo DR, Djibouti

2nd round
(double round robin, top two in each group advance straight to World Cup, 3rd place team from each group plays-off home/away for 5th spot)

Group 1: Cameroon, Benin, Algeria, Cote d'Ivoire, Morocco, Zambia
Group 2: Guinea, Ghana, Nigeria, Burkina Faso, Mali, Egypt

Simple, sensible, and straightforward. Which is probably why CAF will never do it :?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:32 pm 
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why that system is also good....is that it basically covers as friendlies, 'cos if you play 40-60 games together you can actually build a team and team spirit....


nemi2002 wrote:
Not that simple. Logistics would be a major challenge and 52 nations cant engage themselves like 10 nations.



you use the group system and previous performances to eliminate the likes of somali, sudan etc

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:33 pm 
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Ghana played CIV, Nigeria and Egypt at the ANC
Nigeria played Egypt, Ghana and Algeria
Algeria played CIV, Egypt and Nigeria
CIV played Ghana and Algeria
Kamerun played Tunisia and Egypt

They were tested at the ANC :!:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:35 pm 
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We can also use the African cup of nations tournament as a qualifying tournament.

1. Play the cup of nations during european off-season, like during summer, closer to fall, i.e. between July and August. This will enable all euro based pros to come and take part. Also, this will give us another 9 months at least between cup of nations and the world cup - for those of us that likes to fire our coaches after ANC, there will time to do that and the new coach, time to know his team.

2. Play the cup of nations in odd-numbered years

3. Use two rounds of league system, and avoid knock-outs till the semi-final. That way, the qualifyers for the WC are already known, before the knock-out phase begins - eliminating the unlucky senario, of second best team being knocked out by the best team or similar senarios.

The idea is to bring the best out of Africa.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:36 pm 
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Our qualification module was excellent this time. African teams are doing badly due to little things that others are taking seriously.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:37 pm 
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YUJAM wrote:
It has nothing to do with the format. We should study and perhaps attempt to emulate their organization and training methods from the grassroots level


PREACH!!!!!!!!!

Managers and WCQ format.....PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

No viable domestic league=disaster.

Can't think of any continent that has virtually abandoned the domestic scene as the vast majority of CAF nations have over the last 15 years.

CAF clubs can't continue to lose player after player for nothing and lose them when they're just kids. The ideal situation is too have players develop their craft domestically and than sell said players for a decent profit when they're 22 or 23 years of age.

Take Senegal and Morocco their UEFA only criteria crippled a NT that were on top of the World in 2002 and 2004 respectively.

CAF members need to stop hugging big time UEFA clubs nuts and come to grips with the fact that no NT can excel sans a viable domestic scene. CAF members need to take a page from the likes of Mexico, Japan, South Korea, USA, Egypt, Croatia, Turkey etc etc Vast majority of their NT is based domestically and over the years it's has produced great success over perceived regional and global heavyweights.

UEFA, AFC, Concacaf, Comnebol all retain vibrant domestic leagues.

To quote MATE


Quote:
....Leagues in which to comprehensively develop players of all positions. Consider that no African WC nation right now has a true world class play making midfielder. This is perhaps the most bitter lesson of all that can be learned about sending African talent too early and too long to Europe. Contrast this with how Argentinians, Mexicans and Brazilians develop their players before sending them abroad.


Osei Kofi
Ahmed Faras
Abdul Razak
Tarek Dihab
Obdegbami
Belloumi
Majder
Theo Abega
Mo Polo
Jay Jay Okocha

ETC ETC ETC

All developed domestically.

Now the only real creative quality in Africa comes from none other than CAF kings Egypt. Likes of Abo Trika and Barakat are the most obvious examples of how invaluable a viable domestic league is to any nation with serious ambition.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:37 pm 
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vancity eagle wrote:
More importantly the SA teams are battle tested after playing teams like Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay home and away, yet we play Tunisia and Kenya.


KPOM!

African representatives were not sorely tested, like their South American counterparts.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:42 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:47 pm 
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Tunisian Gooner wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
It has nothing to do with the format. We should study and perhaps attempt to emulate their organization and training methods from the grassroots level


PREACH!!!!!!!!!

Managers and WCQ format.....PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

No viable domestic league=disaster.

Can't think of any continent that has virtually abandoned the domestic scene as the vast majority of CAF nations have over the last 15 years.

CAF clubs can't continue to lose player after player for nothing and lose them when they're just kids. The ideal situation is too have players develop their craft domestically and than sell said players for a decent profit when they're 22 or 23 years of age.

Take Senegal and Morocco their UEFA only criteria crippled a NT that were on top of the World in 2002 and 2004 respectively.

CAF members need to stop hugging big time UEFA clubs nuts and come to grips with the fact that no NT can excel sans a viable domestic scene. CAF members need to take a page from the likes of Mexico, Japan, South Korea, USA, Egypt, Croatia, Turkey etc etc Vast majority of their NT is based domestically and over the years it's has produced great success over perceived regional and global heavyweights.

UEFA, AFC, Concacaf, Comnebol all retain vibrant domestic leagues.

To quote MATE


Quote:
....Leagues in which to comprehensively develop players of all positions. Consider that no African WC nation right now has a true world class play making midfielder. This is perhaps the most bitter lesson of all that can be learned about sending African talent too early and too long to Europe. Contrast this with how Argentinians, Mexicans and Brazilians develop their players before sending them abroad.


Osei Kofi
Ahmed Faras
Abdul Razak
Tarek Dihab
Obdegbami
Belloumi
Majder
Theo Abega
Mo Polo
Jay Jay Okocha

ETC ETC ETC

All developed domestically.

Now the only real creative quality in Africa comes from none other than CAF kings Egypt. Likes of Abo Trika and Barakat are the most obvious examples of how invaluable a viable domestic league is to any nation with serious ambition.

QED... nothing more needs to be said

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:50 pm 
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YUJAM wrote:
It has nothing to do with the format. We should study and perhaps attempt to emulate their organization and training methods from the grassroots level


can you imagine... its not because SA are 100x better than africans... its because of the format... LOL...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:53 pm 
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I personally am not arguing that the qualifying format is the reason for Africa's failures at the current World Cup. I'm just saying the format can be improved... a lot ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:57 pm 
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This thread is being derailed. It is about, how Africa can select their best representatives to the world cup. It is not about how to develop the local league. No doubt developing the local league will definitely help the NTs and African soccer.

The question here is how do we select our best representatives out of Africa, without leaving good teams behind because of the hard luck of grouping draws..


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:05 pm 
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Corruption and incompetence at each federation and at CAF is the primary reason for Africa's uselessness. You fix this and the problem is solved.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:07 pm 
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Pharaoh wrote:
I personally am not arguing that the qualifying format is the reason for Africa's failures at the current World Cup. I'm just saying the format can be improved... a lot ;)


Does not matter.

CAF can send 8-10 CAF teams to the WC and save Masr all would have had their asses handed to them in South Africa. Take Mali all that "Talent" and a joke at both the ANC and in WCQ, Senegal and Morocco have lost the plot, Tunisia still distinctly average etc etc.

We lack the basics, few if any CAF nations have an identity, one day we're trying to replicate France, next Germany etc etc Sadly we have sold out. I hate it when I read/hear commentators assume their is an "African style of football", it's a lazy and simplistic analysis. In UEFA the system and identities of Spanish, French, Italian, German, Dutch etc vary quite significantly..

Nigeria need a Nigerian footballing identity, as do CIV, Cameroon, Algeria and every other CAF nation save Egypt. WCQ format is a non issue as long as we fail to produce players and a system that will ensure CAF NT excel on the World stage.

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Last edited by Tunisian Gooner on Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:08 pm 
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kofi86 wrote:
Ghana played CIV, Nigeria and Egypt at the ANC
Nigeria played Egypt, Ghana and Algeria
Algeria played CIV, Egypt and Nigeria
CIV played Ghana and Algeria
Kamerun played Tunisia and Egypt

They were tested at the ANC :!:



and then they had all of 2 months to correct the problems

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:18 pm 
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ehiosu wrote:
This thread is being derailed. It is about, how Africa can select their best representatives to the world cup. It is not about how to develop the local league. No doubt developing the local league will definitely help the NTs and African soccer.

The question here is how do we select our best representatives out of Africa, without leaving good teams behind because of the hard luck of grouping draws..



The best teams represented Africa, we were just not good enough this time. Th SA system will not work for Africa. Even the richest FA in Africa will find it tough having to travel to over 20 countries.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:36 pm 
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ehiosu wrote:
It is obvious that the South Americans came to the World Cup with their best representatives. The same cannot be said of Africa - a fact underscored with the absence of Egypt.

We are currently using the euorpean format, where the countries are divided into groups. Depending on the group your country is, it might be easy for you or difficult to qualify. The european format that CAF is using do not necessarily bring the best teams, because depending on the group you are in, you might find it easy or not.

The South Americans on the other hand end up playing each other. For example, each of the South American representatives to the world cup played each other during the qualifying series.

In our case, just like the europeans, we did not meet each other - Ivory Coast did not play Cameroon, Nigeria did not play Ghana, Nigeria did not play Ivory Coast or Algeria. So, our representatives were not very well tested during the qualification series like the South Americans were. Any wonder now, that the South Americans are justifying their qualification to the world cup, and representing their sub-continent very well. The brought their best.

U have about 12 Countries in South America as opposed to 52 from Africa, can u come up with a schedule for Africa like the South Americans based on those numbers?. If u do we will be with u all the way to the CAF next general assembly meeting.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:39 pm 
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pajimoh wrote:
ehiosu wrote:
This thread is being derailed. It is about, how Africa can select their best representatives to the world cup. It is not about how to develop the local league. No doubt developing the local league will definitely help the NTs and African soccer.

The question here is how do we select our best representatives out of Africa, without leaving good teams behind because of the hard luck of grouping draws..



The best teams represented Africa, we were just not good enough this time. Th SA system will not work for Africa. Even the richest FA in Africa will find it tough having to travel to over 20 countries.


Is Egypt not one of the best teams in Africa? And were they at the party?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:47 pm 
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I stated the same thing a few years ago, but folks on here shut it down. CAF should move the ANC to every 4 years depending on the country, they need to be flexible on the time of the year it is played. The final round should consist of 12 teams, playing 24 matches spread across 3 years, all 12 teams automatically qualify for the ANC which would be held 1 year after the WC, then the final 4 spots will go a round robin series. The best 5 teams will qualify for the WC.

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