@ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

Post by txj »

It is a true disservice to the game to have a squad like Chelsea have and be afraid to look to dominate the ball!
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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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txj wrote:
txj wrote:You man mark from MF of course, and you adjust the numbers accordingly.

But the counter side of this is the quality of other players.

Is Eto'o dropping into MF necessarily a threat, rather merely a tactical wrinkle?

If the onus swings towards Oscar, what about the penetration? Willian?

Possibly, but he lacks the quality of Hazard, which is what the problem is.

What value is a linkman with a eunuch upfront?

Even on the defensive, JM leaves Eto'o and Hazard upfront, with the latter further behind. Without the trickery of Hazard to unbalance the opponent, the effectiveness of the counter is blunted considerably...

A different wrinkle, but same concept..

Without Hazard, this Chelsea team are one dimensional!
With Hazzard they are still one dimensional. Just a very fantastic dimension in Hazards talent.
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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Frighteningly one dimensional and lacking reactivity. Nasri's introduction sealed their fate, the movement of Silva was already posing problems beyond solution, Samir doubled the trouble. Javi Garcia's inclusion was crucial to the pressing game and pivotal in setting up Yaya's domination of the central sphere.
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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The English media will round on Luiz, but this is truly a shame...

Contrast this to the reaction of the Italian media to Jose. They were not fooled by his antics...

To have this kind of squad and play such schtick football is a travesty.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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@ Interesting wrinkle on the use of possession in a game of brinkmanship by El Tata vs Senor Pelle

In some small way reminded one of England vs Brazil at the 1970 WC.

Up until the RC, Barca offered possession without ever seeking to push the envelope all the way thru.

Controlled possession = Minimal turnover = few counterattacking opportunities.

In otherwords, if you want the ball, come n get it! And live with the consequences!

A slightly cynical view of possession as envisaged by Pep and Tito...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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@ coach

What did you make of Javi Martinez tonight?

Looked like someone bringing a chainsaw to a knife fight!
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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@Tx, Martinez is most underrated, he is close to a complete midfielder. Shock, horror! Hardly, whatever his deployment, he plays with the midfielder's mindset. Earlier this season, he was played as an advanced stopper, breaking down the opposition's attacks right at start, today he was solid, shut it down. Simple.
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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I thought it was an overkill and he only really began to play when pulled back to CD

What did you think of El Tata last night?
txj wrote:@ coach

Interesting wrinkle on the use of possession in a game of brinkmanship by El Tata vs Senor Pelle

In some small way reminded one of England vs Brazil at the 1970 WC.

Up until the RC, Barca offered possession without ever seeking to push the envelope all the way thru.

Controlled possession = Minimal turnover = few counterattacking opportunities.

In otherwords, if you want the ball, come n get it! And live with the consequences!

A slightly cynical view of possession as envisaged by Pep and Tito...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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It was a, for want of a better word, different Barcelona. Possession based as ever, but there was a lack of penetration, Jordi Alba wasn't as relentless as he has been before and, though a joy to behold, the narrowness of Iniesta, made them somewhat predictable. Where Guardiola would use Pedro/Villa in wide left role, Tata's use of Iniesta was far less attack minded, but most certainly pro-possession. They'll go through but could come a cropper against a well-oiled outfit...with 11 men on the field.
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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Coach wrote:It was a, for want of a better word, different Barcelona. Possession based as ever, but there was a lack of penetration, Jordi Alba wasn't as relentless as he has been before and, though a joy to behold, the narrowness of Iniesta, made them somewhat predictable. Where Guardiola would use Pedro/Villa in wide left role, Tata's use of Iniesta was far less attack minded, but most certainly pro-possession. They'll go through but could come a cropper against a well-oiled outfit...with 11 men on the field.
They were playing strictly to the opposition. Specifically to prevent City from counterattacking.

There's far more to this team than peeps are giving them credit for.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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Pique and Mascherano at the back, they'll get their credit in due time.
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

Post by kajifu »

Coach what City and arsenal what are their chances to knockout Bayern and Barca.What tactics should be used to face the Spanish and German giants?
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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kajifu wrote:Coach what City and arsenal what are their chances to knockout Bayern and Barca.What tactics should be used to face the Spanish and German giants?
None; sorry. Its over...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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What is becoming ever more obvious is that there are two classes of teams in Europe.

You have the first class with Bayern, Madrid, Barca, PSG, Dortmund from last season

Then you have the 2nd class where pretty much all the EPL teams reside
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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@Kaji, elimination at this early stage will be a crying shame and absolute disgrace, whatever tactical ogbunigwe is required to butcher Bayern, rest assured t'is beyond Wenger's will and know how. His pursuit of a perfect nightmare saw him parade Yaya Not Toure vs Bayern Munich. Pathetic by every yardstick, Arsenal are an effigy of the piss stained principles of Wengerism, incontinence, the golden stream of cowardice that flows so brilliantly.
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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txj wrote:What is becoming ever more obvious is that there are two classes of teams in Europe.

You have the first class with Bayern, Madrid, Barca, PSG, Dortmund from last season

Then you have the 2nd class where pretty much all the EPL teams reside
Dortmund? Nah.
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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Coach wrote:@Kaji, elimination at this early stage will be a crying shame and absolute disgrace, whatever tactical ogbunigwe is required to butcher Bayern, rest assured t'is beyond Wenger's will and know how. His pursuit of a perfect nightmare saw him parade Yaya Not Toure vs Bayern Munich. Pathetic by every yardstick, Arsenal are an effigy of the piss stained principles of Wengerism, incontinence, the golden stream of cowardice that flows so brilliantly.
What if we knock them out?A first 15 minutes goal in Germany will be kill in to this game.
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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@Kaji, Beloved has promised a greatness this season, not due to the withering hands and crumbling mind of Wengerism, but born of her own beauty. One had said and maintains that the league, Champions or Premier, will grace her head with its crown. She cannot be eliminated shrouded in shame and despair, the Heavens must not have it. Munich may fall on their own sword, with Arsene nowhere near the murder scene.
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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@ coach

Should be interesting to see what the summer holds in terms of innovative tactics
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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Coach wrote:Hmmm.

The role of midfielder in this quantum theory will surely diversify more than ever. There must be those more Javi Martinez and others more Iniesta, masters of a branch of midfieldery, yet all midfielders, one and the same.

Personally, one believes such an evolutionary step is far off and not guaranteed. However, the hegemony of the midfielder, will see the death of orthodox positions and creation of new roles. The false nine is just the beginning of many falsifications to come. The sweeper may yet return as teams look to exploit the strength of attacking from areas one is seldom expected to attack from. The movement in straight lines is fast becoming a thing of the past, one expects the double flanking used in many formations, full-backs and wingers, will be done away with. Additional width will be provided by the trajectories of runners from central areas, the need for stereotypical full-backs will eventually pass.

Going back to old ground...

The days of the specialist defensive midfielder is numbered.

For Mikel, its adapt or die!

But he has Mourinho's unwillingness to have a road to Damascus moment to thank so far.

With technical/aggressive CDs who are able to push into MF, the Makelele zone is just about taken by a Sergio Ramos pushing through from behind.

The need instead is for rounded midfielders who execute defensive and offensive roles based on the shifting phase of the game.

At Liverpool, the amiable Lucas has no more than one season left, if at that. Look at the evolution of Gerard in the role, albeit with LFC lacking a high caliber third midfielder.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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Indeed, some will play the same pokerface whatever the weather. When the stakes rise, they'll be forced to fold like the futon. Italy will be interesting, with the 3-5-2 holding hegemony in Serie A, it would be near foolish for them to employ anything but. The 3-4-2-1 used vs Spain was perfect and could cause problems for the bog standard 4-3-3s and 4-2-3-1s. Much more than ever, this Mundial will be a tournament that showcases the prowess of tactic and strategy, pressing will be the determining factor for all. In previous years, strikers have been pivotal, trequartistas had their run, one anticipates the box to box midfielder being the most important asset for all contenders.

Will be interesting to see if Germany allow Lahm a midfield berth, his performances for Bayern have been stellar on occasions, such a deployment could offer a different threat all together. vs Beloved, Guardiola had Lahm breaking from centre to overload the fullback, there was no direct marker for such a run, dragging a midfielder away from goal, would prove fatal for the defending team, in effect, he was left unchecked...the rest is history.
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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Rather than pressing, I'll like to think that conditioning will be key...

In such weather a full court press might prove foolish.

Even without the weather being an issue, I always thought a full court press was a waste of resources. IMO its about finding the right moments...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: @ COACH: Lets talk Tactics!

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Coach wrote:The movement in straight lines is fast becoming a thing of the past, one expects the double flanking used in many formations, full-backs and wingers, will be done away with. Additional width will be provided by the trajectories of runners from central areas, the need for stereotypical full-backs will eventually pass.
@Tx, since the above post, Pep has used Lahm as a defensive midfielder.

Txj wrote:...The days of the specialist defensive midfielder is numbered...
Absolutely. Of course, the wind blowing this ship towards shore falls from the mouth of racists! But for their bigotry, such evolution would never transpire. Again, Pep is at the forefront of thinking. The regista is returning, cutlass in hand to cleave the dull ennui of the block/tackle/passer from their base of midfield throne, like a Russian roadshow in Crimea. Interestingly, the advanced stopper is slowly gathering favour. Javi Martinez vs Dortmund and only the other day Seedorf used Poli to negate Pirlo from a quasi-number ten position, albeit playing as a number four.

Again, one will argue, the era of the fullback is drawing to a close, the need for greater solidity in midfield is becoming all the more apparent. A Zona Mista style shape, with one fullback tucked in centrally and the other high on the opposite side, is creeping into the fore. Look at Chelsea's shape with Azpulucieta (misspelling), Ivanovic is the more offensive, whilst the latter defends more on the inside. This allows for Chelsea to relegate Obiesta, in the knowledge that they retain a good central core, despite Matic's swarrays into enemy territory.

As Draconian as he may be, Mourinho is a masterful thinker, albeit blighted by pragmatism.

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