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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:08 pm 
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Coach wrote:
Absolutely. That teams place such emphasis on attacking width from so deep a starting point is quite ridiculous, further indictment on the fullback is the vulnerability that comes from the turnover of possession in the advanced phase. All too often, for want of the overlap, the team is left with two defenders to fend off a counter, unsuccessfully. One was somewhat surprised Rodgers didnt evolve on his 3-4-2-1 once injuries etc robbed him anything close to an adequate deputy wingback. A 3-2-4-1 or 3-3-3-1 for instance.


has rodgers dropped his 3-4-2-1 and one back to back 4 ?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:27 pm 
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Coach wrote:
Absolutely. That teams place such emphasis on attacking width from so deep a starting point is quite ridiculous, further indictment on the fullback is the vulnerability that comes from the turnover of possession in the advanced phase. All too often, for want of the overlap, the team is left with two defenders to fend off a counter, unsuccessfully. One was somewhat surprised Rodgers didnt evolve on his 3-4-2-1 once injuries etc robbed him anything close to an adequate deputy wingback. A 3-2-4-1 or 3-3-3-1 for instance.


Technically there are nine zones on the field. If you have 3 specialist CDs in three zones, that leaves you with 6 midfielders to deploy with maximum flexibility in the remaining zones, while still retaining your striker as extra chip.

It enables u play thru the high press better, and with good positioning in the NP phase should control the spaces available in wide areas to make them not as decisive a factor in the game...

As for Rogers, he is guaranteed the occasional brain fart...To be outplayed in midfield by Grealish and Fabian Delph...plain daft!

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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:46 pm 
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@Bentekkers, Re: Has Rodgers dropped his 3-4-2-1 and gone back to back 4?

The clobbering by Beloved was a philosophical mind fornication and breathed doubt into Brendanism. Rightly so. Perhaps not an abandonment rather a previously unfathomable haste at reverting to the orthodoxies of old if the going veers wide of good. The issue is not so much the system as it is the soldiers. 3-4-2-1 is a solid shape, Liverpool's problem is that they are forcing square pegs into round holes. Moreno is pardonable on the left, though should be up and coming more than established starting 11, Ibe should be nowhere near starting at right wingback and the myriad makeshifts, of which Markovic has been amongst the worst, are inadequate for such a specialised role. The defence suffers the same malaise. If Rodgers is to persist with this commendable system, the summer must see the acquisition of two solid centrebacks, ball-playing and competent in the flanks and two wingbacks are a matter of priority. Do Liverpool have the pulling power to draw in such quality? Milner will probably come in as a pseudo right-wingback which is acceptable, far from worldly quality, but perhaps frees funds up for a heavy outlay on the aforementioned 3 positions and a quality forward.

Alternatively, Rodgers spins the revolutionary wheel and lands on a 3-2-4-1 or 3-3-3-1, two systems for which Liverpool are certainly better suited.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:56 pm 
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@Coach
What should be Wenger tactics to beat chelsea on sunday?
Your best 11 that can knock out this Chelsea under Jose?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:36 pm 
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@Kaji, the answer is very much in question, if the intention is to beat Chelsea, Beloved must acknowledge the opponent in their approach. Chelsea will have Hazard high up on the left with diminished defensive responsibility, Azpi will seldom overlap, Ivanovic will steady up the right side and seldom push beyond Sanchez, Willian will drop deep, though one wouldb't be at all surprised to see Cuadrado in the line-up. The midfield pairing of Matic and Cesc will press aggressively, a key question for Mourinho is whether he starts Zouma in a deep-role to engage Ozil or Cazorla, or opts for an aggressive front press from Oscar or Ramires. Clearly, the focus has to be on a countering strategy that prevents Chelsea effecting theirs. To begin...

- Sanchez moves over to the right. Hazard tracking back to protect Azpi would be a tactical victory.
- Wellbeck high up on the left, Branislav isn't making surging runs with the same propensity as Jose seeks to baton down the hatches, Danny will keep him occupied and offers a different proposition to Alexis.
- Cazorla (or Ozil) centre-midfield charged with the role of making wide runs into the left-hand channel, doubling up on Ivanovic.
- Gibbs left-back and reserved in possession and narrow to his centreback in the defensive phase, this allows Debuchy to step up and engage Hazard higher up the pitch. Sanchez should occupy Azpi and prevent the overlap.
- Ramsey completes the midfield and aggressively presses Fabregas.
- Giroud up top, dropping deep, back to goal, the emphasis should be on geting Wellbeck in behind with diagonal runs.

Biggest miss here is a fully fit Theo Walcott.


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 7:48 pm 
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@Tx, where has it gone so wrong for Liverpool? A humdingering at the hands of Beloved left the senses scrambled and forced Brendan to rethink his previous tactical triumph #bosh


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 8:06 pm 
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Coach wrote:
@Tx, where has it gone so wrong for Liverpool? A humdingering at the hands of Beloved left the senses scrambled and forced Brendan to rethink his previous tactical triumph #bosh


Its a whole host of reasons, and not all belong to him, but he carries the significant portion of it.

1. Last summer's recruitment was based on guidelines established by FSG, but it was also based on two major assumptions which failed spectacularly: 1) the health of Sturridge, and (2) Balotelli. Both assumptions not based on any rigorous analysis.

2. The rest of it required very astute management, which sadly Rogers proved incapable of doing. Even the switch of systems, seemed like the product of a lucky find!

3. In his 3yrs on the job, he has never gotten the balance of the team right in midfield. Don't know if its a lack of players or a lack of thinking. But the team once had Nuru Sahin and couldn't do anything with him...

4. Going forward, I believe the FSG approach to be well thought out, and I wont be surprised if they keep it going, including retaining Rogers. But then again, they can be very ruthless, and the manner the season has ended doesn't bode well at all...

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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 10:28 pm 
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If given another season, the summer has to be exact. The scattergun approach of the summer past proved as fruitious as the barren cactus. The vast majority of what came in needs to be led back out and a more focused, purposive approach endorsed.


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 10:45 pm 
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It's not a scatter gun approach but a deliberate process of buying young emerging talent and letting them grow with the team. What was lacking is the right balance of experienced players, especially in attack.

One half years ago, Henderson was also deemed a failure.

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Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 10:57 pm 
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The modus operandi seemed very much bulk buying as opposed to genuine quality. Fire wherever there was a rustle in the bush. There appeared to be no strategic purpose beyond mass recruitment, scores of not good enough. Rodgers needs to stick with a system and buy into that. Variability is desirable but so is a third boob until Total Recall's shoved in the video player.


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 11:03 pm 
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It's not bulk buying by any stretch. And there's enough body of work to support each choice. But it lacked the balance of experienced players in key positions and astute leadership from the bench.

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 11:07 pm 
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Tender that "body of work"... Markovic, Manquillo for instance. The starting 11 needed finished products not those enrolling into finishing school. Not good enough. Markovic shockingly poor and largely pointless.


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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 11:40 pm 
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Off topic but fascinating nonetheless, United, 3-4-1-2, season almost sacrificed, Leicester, 3-4-1-2, season saved. Horses for courses.


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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 10:18 pm 
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Coach wrote:
@Tx, where has it gone so wrong for Liverpool? A humdingering at the hands of Beloved left the senses scrambled and forced Brendan to rethink his previous tactical triumph #bosh


@coach: Revisiting the issue from a post on liverpool forum:


1. The challenge of assessing BR atm is that it is clouded by the debacle of a 5-1 thrashing. But it is equally clouded by the difficulty of separating his role in the decision on player recruitment last summer. The problem with LFC as the debacle of the season has shown clearly is both managerial and technical.

2. Last summer's recruitment was based on two important assumptions: the health of Sturridge and the immediate impact of Balotelli. Both failed spectacularly.

What is clear to me though is that from a management perspective, the overall strategy of FSG is very valid, and one that should be continued with important tweaks in a few places.
(a) The club must continue to look for value in the transfer marketplace. But it is crucial that the focus on young emerging talent be counterbalanced by the recruitment of experienced, first team caliber players.
(b) The scouting needs to improve drastically, with much greater reach and rigor.
(c) What is lacking however in the TC approach is a lack of accountability. Who do you hold accountable for failures? That's why IMO there needs to be a renewed consideration of a DOF at the apex of the TC structure.

3. On the technical side, what is clear to me is that while we have an innovative thinker in the manager, he lacks badly in matching the ideal with the reality. In BR's three years, its hard to count beyond one hand, the number of games LFC has played 90mins with a balanced performance in both offense and defence, and in the possession and non-possession phase. The type of goals the team concedes today are the very same it did in the first year of the manager! That for me is a very serious issue of concern.

4. A lot of focus on the current Barcelona team is on its attack, and rightly so. But for me the most impressive thing about the team is its defensive organization. Watching its positional discipline and defensive rotations in the road game to Atleti was like a brilliant piece of choreography...The inability to organize a team defensively, for me is the most important failure of Brendan Rogers.

5. The problem with this season became obvious very early on with Sturridge's injury and Balotelli's failure, at which point LFC's approach should have been refocused to ensuring balance, defensive solidity and consolidation.

Rather BR spoke about "how we LIKE to play..." (vs how we need to play), our "attacking principles"(vs our defensive principles), factors which were based on the availability to two brilliant strikers and an on-form captain. Those attacking principles are what led him to a 3-centerback formation, with two wide players masquerading as wingbacks, and stagnating the development of both Sterling and Ibe.

6. However in fairness to BR, one cannot overestimate the difficulty of playing/managing a team lacking proven goal scorers. Look at the evidence from the turning points in key road games:

- vs City: dominating in midfield, missed two crucial chances. Then City profit from a Moreno error and the game is turned
- vs United: created more chances than United yet lost 3-0
- vs Arsenal: rocky in the opening stanza; settled down; then missed two clear chances that would've changed the game
- vs United (H): crucial Lalana miss that should've tied the game at the half...
- vs Chelsea in Capital One Cup: plethora of missed chances...

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 12:01 pm 
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@Tx, the switch to a back three was essential, Liverpool lacked solidarity and discipline in a back four. Lovren, Skrtel, Sakho were far from convincing in a duo and the slight reduction in accountability, from 50 to 33%, served their synapses well. Perhaps where Rodgers failed was in the variation of the team shape ahead of the backline. The balance was at best skewiff and at worst, atrocious...but, there is a faint bright light, a glimmer of hope. A sound summer in which sensible signings arrive could spark to life a resurgence of some sort. The acquisitions have to be of Premiership pedigree, but most importantly, of Premier League experience. There is more than enough in the market place for Liverpool to stock up on and forge a good side from.


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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 11:08 pm 
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Coach wrote:
@Tx, the switch to a back three was essential, Liverpool lacked solidarity and discipline in a back four. Lovren, Skrtel, Sakho were far from convincing in a duo and the slight reduction in accountability, from 50 to 33%, served their synapses well. Perhaps where Rodgers failed was in the variation of the team shape ahead of the backline. The balance was at best skewiff and at worst, atrocious...but, there is a faint bright light, a glimmer of hope. A sound summer in which sensible signings arrive could spark to life a resurgence of some sort. The acquisitions have to be of Premiership pedigree, but most importantly, of Premier League experience. There is more than enough in the market place for Liverpool to stock up on and forge a good side from.


Premiership experience like Lallana, Lovren, etc

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 11:38 pm 
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^Like Sturridge and alike. Frankly put, theres plenty decent quality available, dont waste a fortune on the roulette that is the shaded parts of the continent.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:45 pm 
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@ coach,

Looks like there might be some interesting things at Madrid this season.

La Liga will be quite something in the upcoming season!


Some serious developments at Atleti, Sevilla, Valencia, Bilbao and Celta...

Quote:
It has been popular belief that Cristiano Ronaldo would finally be shifted from out on the left wing to a new role as a center forward this season, and it's not hard to see why. Current striker Karim Benzema is good but not great and has long been linked with a move away from the Bernabéu, and with Ronaldo now the wrong side of 30, it makes sense that his knees should be given a little more rest than they once were.

However, new coach Rafael Benítez, who is generally a predictable, mechanistic tactician has caused a surprise in pre-season by experimenting with Gareth Bale as a striker instead. Of course, we can't read too much into what has been spotted on the training ground, and the Mirror report that the Spaniard also tried a much more conventional lineup with Benzema playing ahead of Ronaldo, Isco and Bale. But even so, it raises the interesting prospect of seeing a completely reshaped Real Madrid this season.

It tallies with a Daily Telegraph report from May, in which football correspondent Matt Law wrote of Benítez's plans to make Bale "untouchable" and the centerpiece of his Merengues side, backed by president Florentino Pérez. As the man that shelled out a world record transfer fee to sign Bale from Tottenham Hotspur, it's little wonder that Pérez is keen for him to make more of a mark.

Playing Bale as a center forward would certainly be a way of putting him under the spotlight, but it remains to be seen whether it's the right way of getting the best from him. He's lightning fast and an excellent dribbler, and playing up top in a possession-oriented team could see him starved of the space he likes to break into. It would also risk alienating Ronaldo, who may be five years Bale's senior, but who comfortably remains Lionel Messi's strongest competitor for the title of best player on the planet.

One alternative -- which, according to Marca, Benítez has already tried -- is playing Bale as an attacking midfielder instead, with Ronaldo on the left, Benzema in the middle and Isco (and eventually James Rodríguez, once he returns from a post-Copa América rest) out on the right. Marca's Álvaro de la Rosa described Bale's role:


"His role as second striker came with the freedom to move to both flanks and play further forward alongside Benzema as the focal point of the attack."

Bale's certainly not a traditional, Juan Román Riquelme-style static No. 10, but Benítez's twist on this old role certainly seems more suited to Bale's attributes. He could still use his pace when he drifts out to overload the flanks, and runs through the centre of defences would maximise arguably Benzema's greatest assets -- his movement and link-up play.

It's still too early too predict how Real Madrid are going to play this season, and it's impossible to do anything other than hypothesise about their tactics may function. But if their pre-season training is showing us anything, it's that Benítez is willing to innovate in pursuit of making Bale a bigger feature of his team -- even at the risk of upsetting Ronaldo.


http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2015/7/1 ... -preseason

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:30 am 
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Christian to carry the cross.

@Tx, Benteke in, how does that shape up the liverbirds for the coming season? A Diamond presumably, opening out to a 4-3-3 when circumstance mandates. Question, is there room for the 3-4-2-1 once more, or was that a short-lived stop gap at a time of need?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:23 pm 
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@Tx, last chance saloon for Rodgers and Pellegrini, the latter perhaps has less in his pint glass.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:37 pm 
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Coach wrote:
@Tx, last chance saloon for Rodgers and Pellegrini, the latter perhaps has less in his pint glass.


I think Rogers will start the season with the hottest seat in the PL...
But he has owners who, while ruthless are also very analytical in their decision making.

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:46 pm 
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^Is top 4 enough?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:23 pm 
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Coach wrote:
^Is top 4 enough?


Definitely yes...

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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