IS JODY CRADDOCK ONE OF THE DEFENDERS BENCHING OKORONKWO?

anointed · Post by **anointed** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:45 am

I didn't watch the game but from what I've read, the guy gave Arsenal some Boxing Day gifts, meaning Dave Jones may be close to blindness for sidelining Isaac.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 316083.stm

Wolves defender Jody Craddock had a game to forget, scoring an own goal to put Arsenal ahead and then conceding possession for the second.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/report?id=108561&cc=5739

Jody Craddock handed out his Christmas presents at Highbury as Wolves suffered a 3-0 hiding against Arsenal.

The Wolves defender scored an own goal for the Gunners' opener, gave the ball away for the second and fluffed a golden chance to pull one back and give the rock-bottom visitors hope of taking something from the game.

bigtola · Post by **bigtola** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:33 am

The only difference is that one is english and the other isn"t!

Eagle Winged · Post by **Eagle Winged** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:38 am

One bad game and this is your reaction. And you didnt even see the damn game either. And by the way; Okoronkwo is INJURED and has been for over a month now.
Typical Nigerians.

Ayo Akinfe · Post by **Ayo Akinfe** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:00 pm

Jody Craddock had a bad game against Arsenal but on the whole has been solid all season. Let us compare and contrast him with Okoronkwo:

(1) Craddock is good in the air whereas Okoronkwo is woeful.
(2) Cradddock can stand toe to toe with attackers and shephard them wide, whereas Okoronkwo is more likely to just dive in ala Henrik Larson during the World Cup
(3) Okoronkwo is prone to unecessary showboating
(4) In the reserve games he has played, Okoronkwo has given needless penalties away
(5) Okoronkwo has also been caught in possession in reserve games, gifting the opposition with silly goals.
(6) Okoronkwo does not have Craddock's positional sense and can easily get caught out by smart runs
(7) Like Roque Junior, Okoronkwo is likely to find the pace of the Premiership difficult. Although he is quick, he is likely to get caught out by the speed of thought of opposing strikers
(8) Can you really see Okoronkwo man marking a target man like say Van Nistelroy, Viduka or Ferdinand. On set pieces, he will be taken to the cleaners.
(9) Although Okoronkwo is quick and strong, I am not convinced that he has the necesary anticipation to track quick strikers. In the Premiership, you have to read a move two passes in advance.
(10) Does Okoronkwo have the distribution skills of Craddock? For instance, cam he stop an opponents, pick out a team mate and turn defence into attack all in one swift move?

paj · Post by **paj** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:32 pm

Ayo Akinfe wrote:Jody Craddock had a bad game against Arsenal but on the whole has been solid all season. Let us compare and contrast him with Okoronkwo:

(1) Craddock is good in the air whereas Okoronkwo is woeful.
(2) Cradddock can stand toe to toe with attackers and shephard them wide, whereas Okoronkwo is more likely to just dive in ala Henrik Larson during the World Cup
(3) Okoronkwo is prone to unecessary showboating
(4) In the reserve games he has played, Okoronkwo has given needless penalties away
(5) Okoronkwo has also been caught in possession in reserve games, gifting the opposition with silly goals.
(6) Okoronkwo does not have Craddock's positional sense and can easily get caught out by smart runs
(7) Like Roque Junior, Okoronkwo is likely to find the pace of the Premiership difficult. Although he is quick, he is likely to get caught out by the speed of thought of opposing strikers
(8) Can you really see Okoronkwo man marking a target man like say Van Nistelroy, Viduka or Ferdinand. On set pieces, he will be taken to the cleaners.
(9) Although Okoronkwo is quick and strong, I am not convinced that he has the necesary anticipation to track quick strikers. In the Premiership, you have to read a move two passes in advance.
(10) Does Okoronkwo have the distribution skills of Craddock? For instance, cam he stop an opponents, pick out a team mate and turn defence into attack all in one swift move?

...your assessment of Isaac na death sentence O!Woeful?

Haba....I assume U never meet Isaac before das why U no liike am....the moment U shake im hand all dat one go change!

but seriously....very few African defenders actually meet up with the blazing speed of the Premiership..even Yobo....I dont know if U can seriouly degrade Isaac as such because the entire defenceline of the WOlves dey chop cane...

Pa

Its a Goal · Post by **Its a Goal** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:39 pm

Ayo, surely this can't be same Okoronkwo we all marvelled about not too long ago that you've shred to pieces. Surely it can't be.

Ayo Akinfe · Post by **Ayo Akinfe** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:46 pm

Its a Goal wrote:Ayo, surely this can't be same Okoronkwo we all marvelled about not too long ago that you've shred to pieces. Surely it can't be.

IAG, we have to tell ourselves certain bitter truths. The following players performed well in the ANC and/or World Cup but have been found seriously wanting for their clubs in the past:

(1) Pierre Wome (Fulham)
(2) Ferdinand Coly (Birmingham City)
(3) Rigobert Song (West Ham)
(4) Ifeanyi Udeze (West Brom)
(5) Lucien Mettomo (Man City)
(6) Patrick Mboma (Sunderland)
(7) Pius Ndiefi (Sedan)
(8) Bartholomew Ogbeche (PSG)
(9) Mustapha Hadji (Aston Villa)
(10) Tony Silva (Monaco)

Talk IT · Post by **Talk IT** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:51 pm

Oh its the same okoronkwo IAG.
Since a white coach has benched him, he must be a very bad defender

Its a Goal wrote:Ayo, surely this can't be same Okoronkwo we all marvelled about not too long ago that you've shred to pieces. Surely it can't be.

mystic · Post by **mystic** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:00 pm

Ayo:

Ah beg comot Ogbeche and Hadji from that list. Ogbeche didn't play well at the World Cup and Hadji was an inspirational player in his heydey at Coventry. Hadji is simply not the same player that he was in the mid and late 1990s.

anointed · Post by **anointed** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 8:14 pm

Wolves have done too much of wandering for my interest and attention so I really don't know Craddock. I only watched one of their games this ssn; against Newcastle when the commentator said Shearer's goals tally was more than all of Wolves' goals put together.

So it must have been a one-off bad day at the office for Craddock but I suppose he was part of the 5 goals they conceded in many of their games this season anyway. So if Isaac had played in those games it could have been 8 goals in those games. Hmm...

Ayo,
Based on your assessment of Isaac, which league do you suggest he should playing in and do you think Craddock could be an SE had he been a Nigerian?

Ayo Akinfe · Post by **Ayo Akinfe** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:03 pm

Annointed, remember we are talking about the unique Premier league. Maybe in Italy, Spain, Germany or France, Okoronkwo may do better than Craddock.

Okoronkwo may actually be the more talented of the two of them but in England, if you are weak in the air, you have no future as a centre back. I believe for instance, that Nigeria's big centre backs like Seyi Olajengbesi and Seyi Ogunsanya, stand a better chance of making it in the Premiership than Okoronkwo, despite being less talented.

anointed · Post by **anointed** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:17 pm

So what exactly is Isaac's problem? Pace or headers?
EPL's highest scorers a la RVN, Henry have a low percentage of their goals scored with headers except may be Shearer. Honestly though I haven't seen Saha this ssn.
I guess it's with pace but Yobo has been able to handle that fairly. So why not Isaac?

azuka · Post by **azuka** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:21 pm

Annointed, remember we are talking about the unique Premier league. Maybe in Italy, Spain, Germany or France

Ayo,

Is the EPL not over-rated in your opinion? Dont tell me the EPL is better than the Serie A, or the La Ligue. France League yes. I will say the German league is on the same per with the EPL.

HAWKEYE · Post by **HAWKEYE** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 9:43 pm

Ayo - I beg to totally disagree with your assessment of Okoronkwo except for his aerial deficiency, 'cos he can't jump. Incidentally, the penalty against SWEDEN was unprofessionally committed by Udeze (fits more your description of Okoronkwo) who hooked Larsson from behind. A good coach could use Okoronkwo successfully as a defensive midfielder - a position I think I read on this forum was his former position.

furiously frank · Post by **furiously frank** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:18 pm

Ayo: This is very disingenous of you, your comparison smacks of bad belle:

(1) Craddock is good in the air whereas Okoronkwo is woeful.

You keep bringing up this issue without backing it up with facts. Tell us which match you watch the whole game and Okoronkwo was found to be woeful in the air. And whilst you are at it, tell us how many Wolves matches you have watched this year and with Craddock in the air

(2) Cradddock can stand toe to toe with attackers and shephard them wide, whereas Okoronkwo is more likely to just dive in ala Henrik Larson during the World Cup

Whilst you are trying to answer my poser above, please tell us about Okoronkwo's performance against English best attackers including Beckam and Owen at the WC and tell us if Craddock had ever played at that level. An Okoronkwo that played in the defense that could held Argentina to a 1-0 can stand toe to toe with any attackers and have actually shephard the world's best wide!

(3) Okoronkwo is prone to unecessary showboating

This is definitely a figment from your imagination and does not deserve a response. You use to accuse him of making hasty clearance and booting balls into the stands whilst under pressure, now you have changed to accusing him of showboating! Haba consistency please. Okoronkwo is none of these and the only thing you can accuse him of is poor judgement occasionally. The only defenders in SE that can be accuse of showboating is Udeze, definitely not Okoronkwo. He rarely do that

(4) In the reserve games he has played, Okoronkwo has given needless penalties away

Please tell us how many of these matches you have watched. Stop hating please..

(5) Okoronkwo has also been caught in possession in reserve games, gifting the opposition with silly goals.

Tell us the team the reserve games was against and what was the score

(6) Okoronkwo does not have Craddock's positional sense and can easily get caught out by smart runs

Ayo, please give an honest answer to this question: Have you ever watch Okoronkwo played this season?

(7) Like Roque Junior, Okoronkwo is likely to find the pace of the Premiership difficult. Although he is quick, he is likely to get caught out by the speed of thought of opposing strikers

Another bare assertions unsubstantiated by any empirical facts..how can anyone compare Okoronkwo to Roque Junior...how? what basis? By the way...

( Can you really see Okoronkwo man marking a target man like say Van Nistelroy, Viduka or Ferdinand. On set pieces, he will be taken to the cleaners.

You might not have seen Okoronkwo doing this b'cos of your prejudices against him, but he has done this on numerous occasions in Champions league and in Ukraine league. He has also done it on the topmost level at the WC...so give it up ...stop your misyarn

(9) Although Okoronkwo is quick and strong, I am not convinced that he has the necesary anticipation to track quick strikers. In the Premiership, you have to read a move two passes in advance.

Let him have an opportunity to prove himself and then we can come back and argue your conclusion

(10) Does Okoronkwo have the distribution skills of Craddock? For instance, cam he stop an opponents, pick out a team mate and turn defence into attack all in one swift move?

Can he can he....He can't if he is not given an opportunity to prove himself...he did prove himself in the most recent reserve game before he got injured again and it was widely reported that the coach was impressed with him...
Ayo, you need to know that a lot happen offfield than infield, the offfield event has kept Isaac on bench and I bet you that if you are privy to some of the things going on you won't run your mouth anyhow as you have done above. I beg leave Isaac alone!

Ayo Akinfe · Post by **Ayo Akinfe** » Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:15 pm

FF, you are obviously a bif Okoronkwo fan. Surely, however, you must admit that he must have a few serious problems if he cannot get into the Wolves team.

This is not like Djemba-Djemba not being able to get into the Man U team. If Craddock and Butler are proving they are better than him, you must beg the question as to whether he is suited to the Premiership.

Azuka, you seem to be missing the point. In England, the style of play is unique. Okoronkwo may do well elsewhere but does not look like a Premiership type player.

realplayer · Post by **realplayer** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:29 pm

Ayo,
Your vicious attack on Okoronkwo is one of the most unfair commentaries I have read this year !
Haba! It seems you are not aware of the fact that there is favouritism in the premiership against foreigners and a lot of support for local players! This is one of the key reasons the managers do not use African and Nigerian players in time as they come up with frivolous excuses about pace and the English conditions. The truth is that the English players are not skilled and so find it hard to play with skilled players.
So in other to cover up for this innadequacy, the managers discourage individual play and enphasise team play and the kick and rush system. It takes time for a skilled player to learn to play with players with little individual skill. Okocha faced this in Bolton before he learnt to adjust and the players learnt to play with such a skilled player. Sam Alladyce is a different kind of manager and he spent a lot in getting Okocha, so he had to use him. If not he would have thrown Okocha to the reserves.
Last season, I watched Udezi play for WBA and the few games I watched, I wondered what he was doing on the pitch as the other players hardly passed the ball to him. He was like a missfit in that useless team!
Isaac, I believe is facing the same problem as I know he is better than all the Wolves defenders put together. In the match against England at the WC, he marked out Owen easily and there was an instance when Yobo leaked and Owen pounced on the ball and Isaac despite being behind him caught up with him and dispossessed him!
As per show boating, I wonder who you are describing as Okoronkwo is VERY business like and takes little chances. Also, I have not seen any aerial weakness in his game as his headers have been good especially corners. His distribution has also been good. There were no times he was caught napping, dispossed or made a bad pass that led to a goal.
As per giving penalties(rash tackles), this was only reported at his old club but I think all defendersmake mistakes once in a while that result in penalties and does not condemn them as useless. He has played many matches at for Nigeria and has not given a penalty even at the ANC and WC! He played against England, the Argentines and the Swedes and gave none.
I wonder why all of a sudden, he was playing in the premiership reserves and started gifting goals and penalties.
I feel you are either biased or just ignorant in believing that these white guys are better just because they are sellected(favoured) and Isaac benched.
Wolves are so woeful that Okoronkwo (who I rate better than Yobo in the central defence,) would have saved them from relegation if he were fairly treated. Sam Alladyce used his head and put confidence in Okocha and he is now enjoying the dividends!

anointed · Post by **anointed** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:03 pm

Ayo,
What exactly has Wolves benefited for not using Isaac?

Ayo Akinfe · Post by **Ayo Akinfe** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:09 pm

Realplayer, you rate Okoronkwo as a better central defender than Yobo?????? Hmmmmmmmmmmm!

Ziontrain · Post by **Ziontrain** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 7:46 pm

Yobo has shown more potential that ACTUAL at CD. He has actually produced best at RB for SE and Marseille.

Okoronkwo has performed legit at CD both at his former club, as one of Africa's best and ANC '02 and a lauded defender at WC '02 where he proved his ability to shut down the best that England has. He didn't suddenly become a bad player - irregardles of what Dave Jones or any rabid Okoronkwo critics might say.

Dave Jones is not exactly an accomplished coach - he has worked with scrub players on scrub teams. I doubt that he would ever get an opportunity to coach even Isaac's old team in Ukraine that was in European competition reguarly, let alone to coach a CL-level team in England!!

kudos · Post by **kudos** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:27 pm

Ayo has been trying to paint Isaac as a weak CD so that he can sell the likes Albert yobo, joe, and Micheal nnnaji to us as better CD.But, thank GOD we all have our own sense of judgment.

Ayo, a word of advice, quite spreading falsehood. Your agenda will not fly!

ROSSIKE · Post by **ROSSIKE** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:46 pm

Nigerian World Cup star, Isaac Okoronkwo is a first class defender who has played at the very top of the world game, and I, like 99% of other normal people, would have him in my squad any day before Jody Cradock (Hope I spelt his name correctly).

nasoo · Post by **nasoo** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 12:00 pm

My people, if he has ears let him hear

Cybereagles

IS JODY CRADDOCK ONE OF THE DEFENDERS BENCHING OKORONKWO?

IS JODY CRADDOCK ONE OF THE DEFENDERS BENCHING OKORONKWO?

...Oboy...