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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:57 pm 
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tfco wrote:
note the operative word.

And a current player says SAF is the best coach he's ever had. So who is right? We know who you lean with :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: 'Thousands better' puts Fergie in the Baba Oni category of coaches.

A current player could say Fergie is the best thing since sliced kenkey for all I care. The crucial point is that this statement is very accurate: Many in the game rate his management, not his coaching.

So far we've heard damning evidence from Sharpe, Del Bosque, Schmeichel and Barton. How many are many? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Fergie tries to put on a coaching session, but he could barely lay out cones as the lads refuse to come out to avoid laughing at him.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:05 pm 
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the most obsessively dedicated, greatest football manager in the modern game
- Sir Alex Ferguson

Quote:
during their period of success, their squad included

Quote:
three of the greatest central midfielders of the modern era
- Bryan Robson, Roy Keane, Paul Scholes
- the same Roy Keane who World Cup winning coach Marcello Lippi described as "the heart and soul of Manchester United", the same Bryan Robson who scored the fastest goal in world cup history and who carried Manchester United almost like a one man team for a decade, and the same Paul Scholes who everyone from Zidane, Vieira, Henry, Davids, GUARDIOLA and Xavi idolise and say is the best midfielder they have ever seen.

Quote:
the two best wingers the world has seen for 40 years
- Cristiano Ronaldo and Ryan Giggs

Quote:
one of the most ruthless cold eyed goalscorers in modern football
- Ruud Van Nisteelrooy - who still holds the record for the most consecutive goals in EPL history, was the highest scorer in Champions League history until he was recently overtaken by Messi (and even then Messi has played in more Champions League games than RVN), and who has been a top scorer in three different European leagues. Is RVN also "a local champion"?

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the most consistent full back in EPL history
- Denis Irwin

Quote:
and the greatest GK the world has seen for 20 years? - Peter Schmeichel
- -in Schmeichel's heyday (late 80s-mid 90s) - who was a better GK than him?


cic old boy wrote:

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All those nameless people you called the “greatest” and the “best” at Manure were local champions, destroying Wigan, Bolton, etc. It’s the same crap they used to say about George Best, until I discovered that his best games were against the likes of Northampton. I hope for your sanity you didn’t include Bryan Robson in your “greatest central midfielders of the modern era”. And who made Schmeichel the “greatest GK the world has seen for 20 years”? You know the “world” watches football beyond the EPL and they have seen Buffon, Casillas, etc?


Last edited by wiseone on Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:23 pm 
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Wiseone, everything you wrote is a matter of opinion and very debatable. I can only be bothered to point out what is factually wrong. RVN was not CL top scorer. That is still Raul. Messi overtook RVN as 2nd top scorer.

RVN – 56 goals in 73, Messi – 62 in 80, Raul – 71 in 142.

RVN was a “local champion” considering all his championship medals were in domestic leagues.

The “greatness” of Keane, Robson :lol: , etc is in the eyes of the beholder. For me, they were technically average with a lot of bulldog spirit. We have discussed Scholes b/4. No need to rehash that stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:12 pm 
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1. Barton played under or "alongside" Fergie when?
2. Barton's only footbal honour till date is winning the Championship with Newcastle in 2010. So where/who are the 'good coaches' he played under or "alongside" or is it that his coaches were unable to arrange cones as well?
3. Pls, who will help Barton reveal the clubs where the "good coaches" Fergie surrounded himself with were head coaches and then the titles they won that made them "good coaches" and then the titles they won when they worked with Fergie.
4. In this same interview where Barton said stuff about Fegie, he also called the England team sugar; isnt that rich coming from someone with just 1 cap between 2007 and now?

On Barton

...Paul Hayward, chief sports writer for The Telegraph writing that Barton "manages to be patronised [by the media] and held up as some kind of exemplar all at once ... he is skilled at tricking us into watching him veer between the extremes of thinker and thug. Either this is a repudiation of societal hypocrisy or, more likely, indicative of a sociopathic tendency."[180]

On 3 March 2013, Barton faced an angry backlash from thousands of teenage girls after taunting Canadian teen idol Justin Bieber and his fans on Twitter. He branded the Canadian singer as "a smack addiction waiting to happen".[182] A few weeks later, he caused controversy once more after comparing Brazilian superstar Neymar to Justin Bieber.[183] Barton's comments followed an incident a month before when he attacked Neymar, before the Brazilian responded that he had no idea who Barton is.[184]

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:13 pm 
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Joey Barton LOL!!!! You should not even mention SAF's name, you are way too many leagues below him and class level!!!!!!


Does anybody really care or take any notice of what this angel* says or thinks ?? A second rate player who would cause an argument in an empty house and who doesnt even have respect for his own team mates as was shown at Man City with the cigar incident


manager or coach winning is winning. some are more practical some are more tactical. I would prefer an english MANAGER than a coach. the players surely dont need a coach they do their training, their learning at their clubs so when u meet up for an international u need a manager. its in the words to manage the international group of players. I cant imagine mourinho, wenger or pellegrini putting out cones to be fair. We all know Joey Barton hasnt got a clue thats why he plays in the championship for a club who tried to get rid of him to france the funniest thing hes ever said is with that stupid French accent


Is this clown actually for real ? Sir Alex Ferguson cannot coach ? What about coaching Beckham , Scholes , RONALDO all to get top class footballers ? Joey barton is seriously an angel* , Stick to twitter Joey , That is all you are good at



barton do the footballing world a favour and retire with your millions to a remote island so we can all get a break from the tripe you continually spill about great players and managers. you think your such a great player well then please tell me and every other person posting on here just how many trophies you have won in your career of made team of the year or even player of the month. your a joke mate.


Just proves what rubbish one comes to expect when JB opens his mouth


That is typical Joey Barton... He never won anything, he played only one game for english team and he is making trouble everywhere he goes.. I don't think that he's entitled to critise anyone apart from himself!!! I'm from Czech republic but watch EPL and english national for number of years... England have golden generation of players BUT they are individuals and they are not playing as a team and that is the main reason why they didn't win anything for long time.... It might be weird that i'm writing this because our team is gone big time.... Thanks


How does this fool get game time from the media, I'm all for opinions but from this clown !!!!!!!!!

I also refuse to believe that Fergie couldn't coach!! Im sure when he was younger he loved running the training ground but he started to rightly take his foot off the gas as he got older...


Have you ever heard Joey Barton complimenting any player apart from himself? I love how he refers to players like Gerrard & Lampard as ¿good¿ players. They may have not performed as well for their country as they do for their respective clubs but you can¿t say they are just ¿good¿ players. Barton is just a negative person. Thank god he¿s not Spanish otherwise what would he have to moan about?!


Got the F.A. point spot on. His criticism of SAF is ridiculous, though. Joey Barton wouldn't know greatness if it kicked him in the face and knocked him into next week

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For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding...hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:05 pm 
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Anyone who thinks Fergie was a great coach is mistaken. He was a great manager. One of, if not the best these shores have ever seen.
Joey Barton on Twitter

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:29 am 
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Under Sir Alex there was a defined system in place - Ferguson managed and his coaches coached.

Paul Parker, ex Manure defender

Like I said, the man was not a coach! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:41 pm 
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Another former player echoes CIC on Manure being average and Fergie surrounding himself with the likes of Meulensteen who did the coaching.

Quote:
Moyes has discovered ‘Fergie’s United’ are a season past sell-by date

By Eurosport | Jan Molby – 37 minutes ago
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As manager of Manchester United, David Moyes is always going to take the blame when results go bad. That is just a fact of life that he must have known when he accepted the job to succeed Sir Alex Ferguson.

He has inherited a squad that somehow won the Premier League last year, but a lot of his critics can't look beyond that.

He has a squad that is not really good enough. One that is creaking with the big players not having much left in the tank to give to the cause.

They didn't buy in the summer. I don't know who you blame for that? Do you blame the manager, chief executive or the board for failing to make funds available for new recruits?

They have got big problems, and now is the time for the people who appointed Moyes to keep calm.

If they wanted a short-term fix, they would have given the job to Jose Mourinho.

The fact they went for Moyes on a six-year contract suggests to me they know there is some work to be done on the squad, and they are going to keep calm for as long as they can. They must not panic.

I think Moyes will be given this season and next season. A club of Manchester United's stature can afford not to win anything this season. I also think they can afford not to be in the Champions League for a season.

It will be a blow, but they will get over it.

It is all about what they do this summer, not January. The rebuilding job starts in the summer.

You must also allow some of the players to play their way out of Old Trafford which Moyes seems to be doing.

You give them this season, take what comes your way and make sure the players take their fair share of blame for failing this season.

You must also start to think about moving some of those failures on.

Your biggest voices in the dressing room have to be the best players on the pitch. I don't think that is the case at Old Trafford any longer.

There are people there living on past glories who can't do their own job any more.

Rio Ferdinand fits into that category as he prepares to retire at the end of the season. There is a reason why he is thinking about retiring.

He has nothing left to lend to people around him any more. Patrice Evra is another player who essentially can no longer cope with the demands of the Premier League. Certainly not at United.

It is a blow not to win anything, but United have to make sure that one season without a trophy doesn't become two then three, four...

All their efforts now have to be on getting their business done properly in the summer.

Sometimes the last people to realise are the club itself. United are still a fantastic club, but what they have is a very mediocre team.

Moyes didn't want to make too many rash decisions when he came into the job. How could he when the side won the Premier League by some margin last season?

He had to give them a chance, but it has not worked out. There were a lot of players turning out in the 2-1 FA Cup defeat to Swansea yesterday who were not signed by Moyes.

They are obviously not good enough. Sir Alex Ferguson was better at motivating this group of players than Moyes, but that might change when the new manager gets in his own group of players.

Players are brutal. Managers come and go, but players will use excuses when they are none to offer. They will happily hide behind them.

The Fulham manager René Meulensteen was a big loss to them on the backroom staff as he was apparently a superb coach, but there can be no excuses by players claiming they miss Ferguson or his preferred coaches.

It is not ideal for Moyes, but he is at least allowing these players to drown in their own lack of ability. That will make it easier to justify moving them on.

Times have also changed. United is no longer a club players will automatically join. They don't pay the biggest wages going.

Mario Mandzukic will be available to leave Bayern Munich in the summer. I think he would choose Arsenal over United. Three years ago that would have been unthinkable.

United need to go back to the late 1980s. At that time, they felt like Fergie was the right man. They have to feel that Moyes is the right man now.

I don't think it is a good season if United beat Sunderland in the semi-finals and win the League Cup. For United to have a good season, they have to be in the top four.

Every time United come across one of the better teams in the league, they don't look capable of beating them.

Winning the League Cup wouldn't make it a good season, but it would paper over some cracks.

Nine times out of ten, United will lose to Manchester City. If they meet them at Wembley in the League Cup final, City will be hot favourites to win that match.

All Moyes can do is get to the summer making sure his rebuilding work is already well under way.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/jan ... 17007.html

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:21 pm 
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Wiseone, you get time oh

Anyway, here you are presenting evidence from former players who actually were under Sir Alex's tutelage and CIC brings in the likes of QPR's Joey Barton :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Best you move on bro...its good for your health

anyway where did this argument start any way, no one disputes that Sir Alex hired coaches to do the down and dirty work....all head coaches (Managers) do

Even Keshi is a manager who has Amo, Shorunmu and co as coaches

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:57 pm 
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akamoke wrote:
Wiseone, you get time oh

Anyway, here you are presenting evidence from former players who actually were under Sir Alex's tutelage and CIC brings in the likes of QPR's Joey Barton :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Best you move on bro...its good for your health

anyway where did this argument start any way, no one disputes that Sir Alex hired coaches to do the down and dirty work....all head coaches (Managers) do

Even Keshi is a manager who has Amo, Shorunmu and co as coaches

I guess Peter Schmeichel played under Ke$hi.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:18 pm 
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I always love it when WE question me. I end up exposing how little they know about THEIR club. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Quote:
Ferguson was not a tactical genius; he needed a few seasons to find out how to win in Europe, working out the need for a sitting midfielder such as Nicky Butt to guard against the counter-attacks of Alen Boksic and company.

To his credit, Moyes has already masterminded a remarkable success at Bayer Leverkusen.

“Ferguson’s strength wasn’t his tactical ability either, but he always made sure he surrounded himself with people who did have this strength – whether that be Queiroz, McClaren or Meulensteen,” added Scott.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... nited.html

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:43 pm 
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:lol: :lol:

good ol' Rene, doing wonders at Fulham FC

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:59 pm 
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Rene's boys did well at OT the other day against 81 crosses. :lol: :lol:
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Yet Meulensteen said: "When I saw Manchester United today I thought the game plan was quite straightforward – get it wide, get it in, whether it was from the full-back pushing on or the supporting wide man and midfielder."

Is it easy to defend against if that is the unchanging game plan? "If you're well-organised and the goalkeeper is in good positions to come and collect the ball at times, yeah, it can be easy," said Meulensteen. "You need a little bit of creativity and a bit of variety at times to open [teams] up.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... eulensteen

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:19 pm 
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anyone wanna check out Paul Ince's interview in the telegraph about a week ago...some of you are gonna love it

:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:19 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
Rene's boys did well at OT the other day against 81 crosses. :lol: :lol:


yes, massive point which will help them next season in the Championship

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:28 pm 
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Maradona wrote:
joplass wrote:
DIMKA76 wrote:
kolinzo wrote:
This is why I want Arsenal to fire Wenger to spite the fans. Now Arsenal fans will appreciate Wenger more.

Sir Alex was something else. The man knows EPL like the back of his hand. I knew United would struggle with a new coach, especially the one like Moyes. If United had hired one the best coaches in the world in mold of Ancelotti, JM, etc they would not be strugglng this bad. But bringing somebody like Moyes is a huge downgrade. Even Martinez is better than him.



You took the word right out of my mouth, I heard Martinez on MOTD 2 last night and thought, Man U got the wrong guy. They should have hired Martinez.

Martinez is the best coach in the EPL, he was second to Sir Alex for a long time. Martinez may not have the luxury to manage teams with the biggest names but it's almost like he knows every team style of play in the league and he changes his team to play for that day.

But Moyes was also appointed because of his knowledge of the EPL.. He has not been a failure in the EPL by any means. I will wait until he has built his own team and then judge him.



Yes, Moyes was not a failure, but he will start every season at Everton with his teams losing or drawing their first 10, then somehow in midseason, they discover their form. Unfortunately, that might have been good for Everton, but not for ManU.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:35 pm 
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kalamashaka wrote:
anyone wanna check out Paul Ince's interview in the telegraph about a week ago...some of you are gonna love it

:lol:


I read it, and there are some truths to it. He is in favor of a protectionist scheme to allow English talent to grow, but sadly English players are not good enough. The really good ones are hailed as heroes before they are 18, and there is way too much pressure on them. In contrast, if you look at Spain, Argentina, Brazil and even Italy, they have a ton of very capable players coming through the ranks.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Igbanibo wrote:
kalamashaka wrote:
anyone wanna check out Paul Ince's interview in the telegraph about a week ago...some of you are gonna love it

:lol:


I read it, and there are some truths to it. He is in favor of a protectionist scheme to allow English talent to grow, but sadly English players are not good enough. The really good ones are hailed as heroes before they are 18, and there is way too much pressure on them. In contrast, if you look at Spain, Argentina, Brazil and even Italy, they have a ton of very capable players coming through the ranks.


there is a bit where he talks about the topic under discussion on this thread...that's what I was pointing to.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:47 pm 
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tfco wrote:
yes, massive point which will help them next season in the Championship

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Even Moi-Moyes knows that every point counts in the battle for a Europa place.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:44 am 
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kalamashaka wrote:
anyone wanna check out Paul Ince's interview in the telegraph about a week ago...some of you are gonna love it

:lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Quote:
“Ferguson never coached; it was either Brian Kidd or Archie Knox. He would sit in his office and look down from his big window at the Cliff and if anyone was farting about, he’d be banging on the window and we all knew we were in trouble.

"It was only on Thursday that we saw Ferguson in training, and then on Friday morning, doing the boxes with his silly little woolly hat on. Saturday was his domain. That’s when you really saw him. If I’d seen Ferguson every day on the training ground it wouldn’t carry that as much substance. It was special when we saw him. ‘Gaffer’s here, stand by your beds’
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... eague.html

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:07 pm 
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It was only on Thursday that we saw Ferguson in training, and then on Friday morning, doing the boxes with his silly little woolly hat on.

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:33 am 
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:rotf:

Man United 'coach' lasts 17 games.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:21 am 
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tfco wrote:
:rotf:

Man United 'coach' lasts 17 games.

Once again, Thicko, repeat after me: good coach, poor manager, good manager, poor coach
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