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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:40 pm 
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tfco wrote:

maybe you or R9 can tell us what is weighing down The Swede


Ask Van der Saaaaaargh
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:03 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
tfco wrote:

maybe you or R9 can tell us what is weighing down The Swede


Ask Van der Saaaaaargh


or anyone from Waaahhhh-gentina

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:43 am 
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Whistled by his own fans. I think they don't appreciate goal hangers. There's more to the game than stats.


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Ronaldo has done so much for Real Madrid – so why do some fans whistle him?

Cristiano Ronaldo has scored more goals than any other Real Madrid player and yet he was whistled by supporters against Bayern Munich. How is that possible

Sid Lowe in Madrid


@sidlowe

Thursday 20 April 2017 07.07 BST First published on Wednesday 19 April 2017 14.35 BST


There are supposed to be about 1,300 words in this article. It is tempting to just spend 1,287 of them listing the things that Cristiano Ronaldo has done at Real Madrid – and there are more than enough of them to take up all that space, that is for sure, from the two Champions League titles to the 395 goals – and then leave just enough room at the bottom to add: “On Tuesday night at the Santiago Bernabéu some Real Madrid fans whistled him. Dicks.” On one level at least that would probably sum it up quite nicely and we could all get on with life but while it can look that simple, it’s not always.

Cristiano Ronaldo was whistled on Tuesday. You might not have heard it on television and you might not have heard it if you were in the stadium either but he did and at one point he lifted his finger to his lips. “I don’t tell them to be quiet, never, I only ask them not to whistle because I always give my best in every game. Even if I don’t score goals, I try to work hard to help Real Madrid,” he said after a Champions League quarter-final in which he scored a hat-trick. Real Madrid knocked out Bayern Munich 6-3 on aggregate and Ronaldo scored five.


His statistics might look like they broker little argument and they certainly do not invite whistles but there is an argument: stupid though it sounds, he wasn’t playing well on Tuesday. When the whistles came, Madrid were struggling and it seemed likely they would get knocked out. Ronaldo had slipped over a couple of times and rarely looked a threat. When he was sent running through, his shot was saved at the near post by Manuel Neuer when some supporters thought he should have played in Karim Benzema. It wasn’t until the 76th minute that he had a decisive impact but by the end he had scored a hat-trick, his 41st for the club. He has 100 Champions League goals.

Daft though it may appear when he has 31 goals this season, for the first half of the campaign he wasn’t playing well, although he has been impressive since Christmas. He didn’t always play that well last season either and yet it ended up being the best of his career: a double European champion and the winner of the Ballón d’Or for the fourth time. He is evolving: more a No9, less a player who dominates games. It just so happens he is about the best No9 you could imagine. “I don’t know who doubts Cristiano Ronaldo,” Cristiano Ronaldo said after the victory over Bayern Munich.

He also noted the people “who love me” don’t doubt him. The whistling wasn’t loud and it wasn’t done by that many. The majority of Madrid fans cheered him on Tuesday night and every night. They didn’t whistle but he heard the ones that did and it stung. Maybe that is human nature and even if it is a few, you may wonder why it is any at all: Ronaldo certainly does.

Madrid’s fans have cheered Ronaldo and they chant his name. They have celebrated his successes as their own. In the summer, they wanted Portugal to win the European Championship. When he won the Ballon d’Or, a gold mosaic engulfed the Bernabéu. They fight his cause in the endless debate against Lionel Messi as if it was another title for Madrid and a succession of managers and team-mates have said he is the best player in the world. Thousands of supporters wear his shirt – more than wear anyone else’s – but still some have whistled him and the Bayern game was not a one-off.

His frustrations are played out on the field, externalised and ostentatious, and when he reacts to the fans’ frustrations it doesn’t help. If he mutters something under his breath, it makes the news, lip readers reveal his words. The way he plays contributes to it, as does his body language, that hint he is an individual in a team sport; the way it can sometimes appear to be about him. There is something about the way players and managers talk about him being the best that could feel forced, too: Rafael Benítez’s baffling reluctance to do so contributed to the manager’s downfall at Madrid.

While Ronaldo’s triumphs have been celebrated some fans think the team should have won more; this is Madrid, after all. He is the holder of the Ballon d’Or, a player who, with Messi, has dominated European football for a decade. The demands at the Bernabéu are gigantic; you have to be perfect, especially if you are the best in the world. Besides, everyone gets whistled at Madrid; whenever the issue is raised you are remind of that. Gareth Bale has been whistled , Zinedine Zidane tells people it has happened to him, even Alfredo Di Stéfano got it at times.

Many of Madrid’s fans are entitled and eternally unsatisfied, always wanting more. Especially from Ronaldo: he has set the bar so ludicrously high for so long it is easy to fall short. His “rubbish” is everyone else’s best game ever, their best season, their dream night. Madrid fans want more from his team than they have had: this is his eighth season; they have won one league title – although two Champions Leagues in three years takes some beating and they are on course for another. Somewhere beneath the surface, perhaps that becomes an implicit accusation aimed at him.

Ronaldo once suggested Madrid would be in a better position “if everyone was at my level”. That kind of comment does not go down well but what if he is right? Look at his contribution and he has a point; he is entitled to think he has done his bit – enough to be appreciated, enough not to be whistled. He is emotional but when you have scored more goals than anyone else in the club’s history it must be odd to observe the affection the fans feel for you is not unanimous. Ronaldo can be over-sensitive but wouldn’t you be? And, anyway, what good does whistling do?

That might just be the point. The significance of whistling can be overstated, especially if seen from outside Spain. There is another reason it happens: because it just does. It’s one of those things football fans here do, especially at the Bernabéu. Everyone gets whistled, even the best players. That line gets trotted out always, including by players who have experienced it: it is just a fact, something everyone accepts. But should it be? Should it not be challenged? Was Ronaldo making a point that more should have made?

Beyond all the other issues, beyond the question of whether or not it is fair, beyond the fact it is worth insisting again it’s really not that many of them, might it not be a bit ridiculous to upset a player who you want to perform well, a man you’re relying on? Doesn’t that make them dicks? Aren’t supporters supposed to, well, support? It is not like Ronaldo – arguably the most relentless, self-made footballer of his generation – lacks commitment. There is hurt in his words: “I only ask them not to whistle because I always give my best in every game.”

Or is that a warped view? Do the whistles and the demands drive players on? On Tuesday at the Santiago Bernabéu some Real Madrid fans whistled Cristiano Ronaldo. He then completed a hat-trick to take them to the Champions League semi-finals.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... tle-genius

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:06 am 
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2 of those were offside.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:14 am 
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Bale, Kroos and Modric asked for Fake Ron to be dropped due to poor form - allegedly.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... ka-modric/

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:29 am 
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cic old boy wrote:
Whistled by his own fans. I think they don't appreciate goal hangers. There's more to the game than stats.


Quote:
Besides, everyone gets whistled at Madrid; whenever the issue is raised you are remind of that. Gareth Bale has been whistled , Zinedine Zidane tells people it has happened to him, even Alfredo Di Stéfano got it at times.


too many whistlers in this thread

On course for the double this season

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:32 am 
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meanwhile.....


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:57 am 
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cic old boy wrote:
Whistled by his own fans. I think they don't appreciate goal hangers. There's more to the game than stats.




you can dig for all the articles you want, but you have to accept certain facts of life, eg. it is Ronaldo's crucial goals in this 1/4 final tie with Bayern that have taken Madrid to the semis.
Ronaldo scores big goals, even if 2 are controversial in the 2nd leg, they have been counted as goals, he scored them, he didn't miss.
He is a big game player, no wonder he is the all time goal scorer for R.Madrid in record time.

You want to start ignoring such stats when it comes to Ronaldo, but you are found raving all day about Pele scoring goals all over.

And Ronaldo is now 32yrs old, an old man in footballing terms, but people still expect him to run around like a 19yr old tricky winger. But he still churns out the goals in bucket loads


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:03 pm 
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benteke wrote:
you can dig for all the articles you want, but you have to accept certain facts of life, eg. it is Ronaldo's crucial goals in this 1/4 final tie with Bayern that have taken Madrid to the semis.
Ronaldo scores big goals, even if 2 are controversial in the 2nd leg, they have been counted as goals, he scored them, he didn't miss.
He is a big game player, no wonder he is the all time goal scorer for R.Madrid in record time.

You want to start ignoring such stats when it comes to Ronaldo, but you are found raving all day about Pele scoring goals all over.

And Ronaldo is now 32yrs old, an old man in footballing terms, but people still expect him to run around like a 19yr old tricky winger. But he still churns out the goals in bucket loads

:lol: :lol:
Whistled by fans and his team-mates asked for him to be dropped. His stats are great, his football isn't. You can play very well and not score, you can play very badly and score. Many of you don't get these finer points of the game.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:16 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
benteke wrote:
you can dig for all the articles you want, but you have to accept certain facts of life, eg. it is Ronaldo's crucial goals in this 1/4 final tie with Bayern that have taken Madrid to the semis.
Ronaldo scores big goals, even if 2 are controversial in the 2nd leg, they have been counted as goals, he scored them, he didn't miss.
He is a big game player, no wonder he is the all time goal scorer for R.Madrid in record time.

You want to start ignoring such stats when it comes to Ronaldo, but you are found raving all day about Pele scoring goals all over.

And Ronaldo is now 32yrs old, an old man in footballing terms, but people still expect him to run around like a 19yr old tricky winger. But he still churns out the goals in bucket loads

:lol: :lol:
Whistled by fans and his team-mates asked for him to be dropped. His stats are great, his football isn't. You can play very well and not score, you can play very badly and score. Many of you don't get these finer points of the game.


what finer points of the game, what mattered here was for Madrid to progress to the next stage, and thanks to Ronaldo's goals they did.

Like i said, this guy is 32yrs old now, he can no longer do the things he used to do when he was younger and at his absolute peak as a forward/winger. That is something i appreciate first and foremost and maybe a factor that you also need to take note of.
But i find it remarkable that he can still pitch up with a lot of important goals for his club and country when it matters, and i cannot stop giving him due praise for his stats.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:43 pm 
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benteke wrote:

what finer points of the game, what mattered here was for Madrid to progress to the next stage, and thanks to Ronaldo's goals they did.

Like i said, this guy is 32yrs old now, he can no longer do the things he used to do when he was younger and at his absolute peak as a forward/winger. That is something i appreciate first and foremost and maybe a factor that you also need to take note of.
But i find it remarkable that he can still pitch up with a lot of important goals for his club and country when it matters, and i cannot stop giving him due praise for his stats.

As you don’t know the finer points of the game and only consider the results, you’d never understand why someone with his impressive stats is regularly booed by his own fans. The finer points of the game involve issues like wins, losses, goals, etc not being down to one player, esp the goal-hanging type.

I didn’t rate him when he was younger either.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:20 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
benteke wrote:

what finer points of the game, what mattered here was for Madrid to progress to the next stage, and thanks to Ronaldo's goals they did.

Like i said, this guy is 32yrs old now, he can no longer do the things he used to do when he was younger and at his absolute peak as a forward/winger. That is something i appreciate first and foremost and maybe a factor that you also need to take note of.
But i find it remarkable that he can still pitch up with a lot of important goals for his club and country when it matters, and i cannot stop giving him due praise for his stats.

As you don’t know the finer points of the game and only consider the results, you’d never understand why someone with his impressive stats is regularly booed by his own fans. The finer points of the game involve issues like wins, losses, goals, etc not being down to one player, esp the goal-hanging type.

I didn’t rate him when he was younger either.


This argument of yours about finer points i think it's nonsense, confirmed by your last sentence.
Your should have just said that instead of hiding behind "finer points".

We are talking about a multiple Ballon D'Or winner here who has broken many goalscoring records in EPL and LA Liga, and you just want to rubbish his amazing achievements.
By the way he was never booed at Old Trafford :taunt:

No amount of hating will wipe away Ronaldo's greatness


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:06 pm 
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benteke wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
benteke wrote:

what finer points of the game, what mattered here was for Madrid to progress to the next stage, and thanks to Ronaldo's goals they did.

Like i said, this guy is 32yrs old now, he can no longer do the things he used to do when he was younger and at his absolute peak as a forward/winger. That is something i appreciate first and foremost and maybe a factor that you also need to take note of.
But i find it remarkable that he can still pitch up with a lot of important goals for his club and country when it matters, and i cannot stop giving him due praise for his stats.

As you don’t know the finer points of the game and only consider the results, you’d never understand why someone with his impressive stats is regularly booed by his own fans. The finer points of the game involve issues like wins, losses, goals, etc not being down to one player, esp the goal-hanging type.

I didn’t rate him when he was younger either.


This argument of yours about finer points i think it's nonsense, confirmed by your last sentence.
Your should have just said that instead of hiding behind "finer points".

We are talking about a multiple Ballon D'Or winner here who has broken many goalscoring records in EPL and LA Liga, and you just want to rubbish his amazing achievements.
By the way he was never booed at Old Trafford :taunt:

No amount of hating will wipe away Ronaldo's greatness


when WE focus on the minority (not sure how many) who whistle, versus the majority who are cheering then WE have a probem

glass always half empty

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:29 pm 
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benteke wrote:
This argument of yours about finer points i think it's nonsense, confirmed by your last sentence.
Your should have just said that instead of hiding behind "finer points".

We are talking about a multiple Ballon D'Or winner here who has broken many goalscoring records in EPL and LA Liga, and you just want to rubbish his amazing achievements.
By the way he was never booed at Old Trafford :taunt:

No amount of hating will wipe away Ronaldo's greatness

I told you his stats are impressive and you are telling me about his goal-scoring records!!

Did you watch their games against Bayern? Have you watched Real this season? How many times have you watched Real since he went there?

Watch games to see the finer points. You can score goals without playing well. You can play well and not score. You can win things without being great. I'm one of Mikelele's biggest critics, but I can't knock his medal haul with Chelski.

So don't come here telling me about Ronaldo's record and achievements. I can see them. I just don't rate him highly as a player based on what I see. A section of the Madrid fans also agree. Others don't. He divides opinion precisely b/c although his record is great, his abilities/general contributions raise questions.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:30 pm 
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tfco wrote:

when WE focus on the minority (not sure how many) who whistle, versus the majority who are cheering then WE have a probem

glass always half empty

WE watched the game and can understand why there was whistling.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:43 pm 
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Will be very interesting to see how CR7 adapts his game over the next 2-3 years as age inevitably takes a toll on his speed, power, agility, and mobility (ie. the strongest assets of his current game!).


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:43 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
tfco wrote:

when WE focus on the minority (not sure how many) who whistle, versus the majority who are cheering then WE have a probem

glass always half empty

WE watched the game and can understand why there was whistling.


any cheering?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:33 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
benteke wrote:
This argument of yours about finer points i think it's nonsense, confirmed by your last sentence.
Your should have just said that instead of hiding behind "finer points".

We are talking about a multiple Ballon D'Or winner here who has broken many goalscoring records in EPL and LA Liga, and you just want to rubbish his amazing achievements.
By the way he was never booed at Old Trafford :taunt:

No amount of hating will wipe away Ronaldo's greatness

I told you his stats are impressive and you are telling me about his goal-scoring records!!

Did you watch their games against Bayern? Have you watched Real this season? How many times have you watched Real since he went there?

Watch games to see the finer points. You can score goals without playing well. You can play well and not score. You can win things without being great. I'm one of Mikelele's biggest critics, but I can't knock his medal haul with Chelski.

So don't come here telling me about Ronaldo's record and achievements. I can see them. I just don't rate him highly as a player based on what I see. A section of the Madrid fans also agree. Others don't. He divides opinion precisely b/c although his record is great, his abilities/general contributions raise questions.



i think you are missing what i am saying here.
Why i am mentioning that he is 32yrs old now ? because i realise that he is not the same player he was at his peak when he was much younger and putting in great performances.
It is not a denial that sometimes he doesn't play well


at 32yrs old, some of his peers have are playing in the MLS or China, and yet here is Ronaldo still pulling out great stats at the highest levels in European football.
I find that he is still relevant, and it's impressive that he can still contribute with such important goals
If you have never rated him ever even at his peak, then you cannot make it seem like he was never a great player, that's your own opinion.

But when you now mention the likes of Obi Mikel and try to use that as an example that Ronaldo won things without being great in his career, i beg to differ massively, i think that doesn't make any sense, and those Ballon D'Ors speak for them self, Ronaldo deserved every single one of them.

There are no finer points here, just common sense.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:40 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
Bale, Kroos and Modric asked for Fake Ron to be dropped due to poor form - allegedly.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football ... ka-modric/


cic old boy wrote:
Whistled by fans and his team-mates asked for him to be dropped


Quote:
The players that met with Zidane include Gareth Bale, Luka Modric well as German star Toni Kroos, according to sometimes-unreliable football website Don Balon.




one minute it is 'alleged', the next it is being reported as fact.

is it alleged, fact, or sometimes unreliable?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:08 am 
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benteke wrote:
i think you are missing what i am saying here.
Why i am mentioning that he is 32yrs old now ? because i realise that he is not the same player he was at his peak when he was much younger and putting in great performances.
It is not a denial that sometimes he doesn't play well


at 32yrs old, some of his peers have are playing in the MLS or China, and yet here is Ronaldo still pulling out great stats at the highest levels in European football.
I find that he is still relevant, and it's impressive that he can still contribute with such important goals
If you have never rated him ever even at his peak, then you cannot make it seem like he was never a great player, that's your own opinion.

But when you now mention the likes of Obi Mikel and try to use that as an example that Ronaldo won things without being great in his career, i beg to differ massively, i think that doesn't make any sense, and those Ballon D'Ors speak for them self, Ronaldo deserved every single one of them.

There are no finer points here, just common sense.

I know he is 32. I also told you that I didn’t think he was that great when he was younger.

He is playing the same way now at least since Borinho went to Madrid. That’s about 7 years. His game since then has been more about finishing moves. He hardly creates, hardly does any work outside the final third, hardly contributes to team play. His goal-scoring record improved a lot since he adapted his game, but the general play left a lot to be desired. Some have argued that while his personal stats have been great since he went to Madrid, the team should have won more (considering the amounts spent and quality). This could be related to the way he plays.

Mikelele is relevant b/c we are talking about footie and you mentioned trophies. Mikelele has a lot of trophies, but his football is questioned. It shows you can’t shut down a discussion about the game’s finer points by pointing at the trophy cabinet. Djimi Traore won the CL with Liverpool. What does it prove?

Watch games and see the finer points. You’d then learn that stats don’t tell the full story. The stats from the Madrid/Bayern game show a Fake Ron hat-trick. When you watch the game you’d see how he was having a stinker, getting whistled by fans and scored 2 offside goals.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:09 am 
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tfco wrote:
any cheering?

Cheer when they are scoring, they only cheer when they are scoring.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:11 am 
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tfco wrote:


one minute it is 'alleged', the next it is being reported as fact.

is it alleged, fact, or sometimes unreliable?

You are trying too hard. Everything is an allegation, whether spelt out or not, since I couldn't have been there when the players made the request.

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