Pinnick - We've Sealed Deal On a Foreign Coach

[1naija]

Ksehi is the reason we are having this foreign coach discussion. I said it before that his poor performance and lack of ideas will seal the fate of local coaches handling the Eagles again but people said I was bashing Keshi. No one in his right mind will blame the NFF if they opt for a foreign coach now. The local coaches have all proven to be worse than foreign coaches in managing the team. We should support Pinniks decisions until he fails. If he hires a foreign coach and it's a disaster we should fire both of them and move on. I believe we can fire our way to success and anyone that don't agree with me should gerrout. Nonsense.

[Cellular]

LMAO. Its obvious hes not in this for the money, or he'll be crying to the Government. Private companies you can't easily mess with. I feel you guys, but truth be told; After Keshi, I really don't mind giving a foreigner a chance.

Keshi's final year or so was .... disappointing, and he probably should have been relieved of his job after the World Cup (and probably would have been if not for the baffling NFF politics) .....

.... but if you are still willing to give foreigners a chance after Milutinovic (Denmark, etc), Bonfrere (Keshi/Siasia-like failure in qualifiers), Vogts (need I say more?), and Lagerback (really, need I say more?) .....

.... why not extend the same benefit of the doubt to a Nigerian, especially since the most recent Nigerian to occupy the job won the Nations Cup and reached the World Cup Second Round?

I belong to the camp of people especially angry at Keshi for making the sort of inexplicably bad decisions that have resurrected the moribund Foreign Coach Movement .... though it is interesting that the successes of Keshi are written off as irrelevant, while amnesia appears to have eroded memories of the failures of foreign managers.

We are back to pretending that hiring a foreigner for a bunch more money guarantees improvement over any and all Nigerians.

PS: We are also back to lying to ourselves that the NFF will hire a non-journeyman foreigner.

I agree with you...

It was our collective responsibility not to allow Keshi fail... it was NEVER about Keshi.

The same natives are complaining about the dearth of coaching opportunities for minorities (in the UK and beyond) yet will be quick to look outside than give our people the opportunity.

Anyway, it is all Keshi's fault... he made it about himself.

[Cellular]

Ksehi is the reason we are having this foreign coach discussion. I said it before that his poor performance and lack of ideas will seal the fate of local coaches handling the Eagles again but people said I was bashing Keshi. No one in his right mind will blame the NFF if they opt for a foreign coach now. The local coaches have all proven to be worse than foreign coaches in managing the team. We should support Pinniks decisions until he fails. If he hires a foreign coach and it's a disaster we should fire both of them and move on. I believe we can fire our way to success and anyone that don't agree with me should gerrout. Nonsense.

Senior Uncle, they can hire a foreign coach.

Not that they need our permission to hire or fire anyone. But they should create an enabling environment for any good coach to thrive. No good foreign coach will have the tolerance for organizational ineptitude that has been the bane of NFF.

[KingLoku]

Seriously we do have bunch of ignorant mofffooo here they really low on thinking faculty .. Reason and try and figure out the mentality of Pinnick , even tho I don't Fancy an FC , I still see sense in what he is trying to do ...

This man na really sharpman , it takes a guyman to catch a hussler .. Pinnik knws his stuff .. Having a data of Nigeria players to pool from just indicated that he knws that local coaches are corrupt .. All those players earning 40K a week easily inflences their decision .. Agents easily bribes coaches .bringin in an FC , with this , such can really be checkmate.. How can a local coach stamp his authority on players that earns 40K a week , like Siasia said Local coaches are scared of Mikel Obi .. , So for now let tha drum of an FC roll while there is a standby LC in the person of Siasia , Oliseh or Manu Garba to work with the FC .. Period ..

[platinum]

Ksehi is the reason we are having this foreign coach discussion. I said it before that his poor performance and lack of ideas will seal the fate of local coaches handling the Eagles again but people said I was bashing Keshi. No one in his right mind will blame the NFF if they opt for a foreign coach now. The local coaches have all proven to be worse than foreign coaches in managing the team. We should support Pinniks decisions until he fails. If he hires a foreign coach and it's a disaster we should fire both of them and move on. I believe we can fire our way to success and anyone that don't agree with me should gerrout. Nonsense.

Worse how? Siasia had the team playing better attacking football than any foreigner I remember in a while. Keshi had the team winning and equaling our best ever years so how exactly were the LC's 'bad'?

[platinum]

I like this approach. A top FC for a year, with a guy like Oliseh as his assistant. After a year, Oliseh takes over. Kind of like a Klinsman and Lowe situation.

There is NOTHING about this that's like what the Germans did....ZILCH. And Klinsmann never coached Germany for a year and would never have accepted a contract to coach a team for a year, that in and of itself smacks of unprofessionalism of the highest caliber.

Everything I've heard and seen of this new FA indicates they are about to embark on a money chopping spree equal to the worst FA's we've had. All hot air so far.

[Robbynice]

I like this approach. A top FC for a year, with a guy like Oliseh as his assistant. After a year, Oliseh takes over. Kind of like a Klinsman and Lowe situation.

There is NOTHING about this that's like what the Germans did....ZILCH. And Klinsmann never coached Germany for a year and would never have accepted a contract to coach a team for a year, that in and of itself smacks of unprofessionalism of the highest caliber.

Everything I've heard and seen of this new FA indicates they are about to embark on a money chopping spree equal to the worst FA's we've had. All hot air so far.

KPOM!

[1naija]

Ksehi is the reason we are having this foreign coach discussion. I said it before that his poor performance and lack of ideas will seal the fate of local coaches handling the Eagles again but people said I was bashing Keshi. No one in his right mind will blame the NFF if they opt for a foreign coach now. The local coaches have all proven to be worse than foreign coaches in managing the team. We should support Pinniks decisions until he fails. If he hires a foreign coach and it's a disaster we should fire both of them and move on. I believe we can fire our way to success and anyone that don't agree with me should gerrout. Nonsense.

Worse how? Siasia had the team playing better attacking football than any foreigner I remember in a while. Keshi had the team winning and equaling our best ever years so how exactly were the LC's 'bad'?

Yeah, but the same Keshi brigade whining now tore down Siasia, so what gives? If Siasia was bad and Keshi was horrible outside of Africa, isn't that being worse?

[Cellular]

Ksehi is the reason we are having this foreign coach discussion. I said it before that his poor performance and lack of ideas will seal the fate of local coaches handling the Eagles again but people said I was bashing Keshi. No one in his right mind will blame the NFF if they opt for a foreign coach now. The local coaches have all proven to be worse than foreign coaches in managing the team. We should support Pinniks decisions until he fails. If he hires a foreign coach and it's a disaster we should fire both of them and move on. I believe we can fire our way to success and anyone that don't agree with me should gerrout. Nonsense.

Worse how? Siasia had the team playing better attacking football than any foreigner I remember in a while. Keshi had the team winning and equaling our best ever years so how exactly were the LC's 'bad'?

Yeah, but the same Keshi brigade whining now tore down Siasia, so what gives? If Siasia was bad and Keshi was horrible outside of Africa, isn't that being worse?

I rather have a Siasia than a Louis Van Gaal.

Siasia succeeding on the job or learning on the job has a higher value for me as a Naijarian than glossing over deep issues we have with our FA with the appointment of an oyibo.

We are yet to address why Siasia 'failed' or why Keshi 'failed'... A progressive FA wins the AFCON with a coach and staff... what do they do, they retrenched his staff and told him the staff was bloated. Even refusing for a private entity to pick up the tab of the retrenched staff.

Yes, that same FA will suddenly find more money to pay one person and probably the retinue of staff he will demand.

[The YeyeMan]

We are yet to address why Siasia 'failed' or why Keshi 'failed'... A progressive FA wins the AFCON with a coach and staff... what do they do, they retrenched his staff and told him the staff was bloated.

We know why they failed. The NFF may not have addressed why these failures came to pass.

[platinum]

We are yet to address why Siasia 'failed' or why Keshi 'failed'... A progressive FA wins the AFCON with a coach and staff... what do they do, they retrenched his staff and told him the staff was bloated.

We know why they failed. The NFF may not have addressed why these failures came to pass.

We do? Why has Keshi 'failed' or more accurately why did he 'fail'?

[platinum]

Ksehi is the reason we are having this foreign coach discussion. I said it before that his poor performance and lack of ideas will seal the fate of local coaches handling the Eagles again but people said I was bashing Keshi. No one in his right mind will blame the NFF if they opt for a foreign coach now. The local coaches have all proven to be worse than foreign coaches in managing the team. We should support Pinniks decisions until he fails. If he hires a foreign coach and it's a disaster we should fire both of them and move on. I believe we can fire our way to success and anyone that don't agree with me should gerrout. Nonsense.

Worse how? Siasia had the team playing better attacking football than any foreigner I remember in a while. Keshi had the team winning and equaling our best ever years so how exactly were the LC's 'bad'?

Yeah, but the same Keshi brigade whining now tore down Siasia, so what gives? If Siasia was bad and Keshi was horrible outside of Africa, isn't that being worse?

Well I can't speak about any brigades as I don't know about that and my stance on Siasia was he should have been kept though I understood why he was let go of.

What is the bolded qualifier about?

Either way, worse than what? What is the baseline we're comparing them to? Qualitatively Siasia did well and was only going to get better. Results wise, Keshi matched our best and in my eyes did much better than them because he had way worse materials to work with. How is that worse?

[The YeyeMan]

We are yet to address why Siasia 'failed' or why Keshi 'failed'... A progressive FA wins the AFCON with a coach and staff... what do they do, they retrenched his staff and told him the staff was bloated.

We know why they failed. The NFF may not have addressed why these failures came to pass.

We do? Why has Keshi 'failed' or more accurately why did he 'fail'?

In a nutshell:

1. Failed to motivate players as he used to
2. Selected poorer quality players and law of diminishing returns kicked in
3. Didn't or couldn't adapt tactically and team stagnated as a result.

[Metho scorpion]

I hope and pray that I am wrong, but I have ZERO confidence in this Pinnick as FA president.

..Chief when a man's mouth no get control...wetin left...I wish him well but I doubt it if he is going to bring any good for Naija footy...

[The Eagle]

Ksehi is the reason we are having this foreign coach discussion. I said it before that his poor performance and lack of ideas will seal the fate of local coaches handling the Eagles again but people said I was bashing Keshi. No one in his right mind will blame the NFF if they opt for a foreign coach now. The local coaches have all proven to be worse than foreign coaches in managing the team. We should support Pinniks decisions until he fails. If he hires a foreign coach and it's a disaster we should fire both of them and move on. I believe we can fire our way to success and anyone that don't agree with me should gerrout. Nonsense.

Worse how? Siasia had the team playing better attacking football than any foreigner I remember in a while. Keshi had the team winning and equaling our best ever years so how exactly were the LC's 'bad'?

Yeah, but the same Keshi brigade whining now tore down Siasia, so what gives? If Siasia was bad and Keshi was horrible outside of Africa, isn't that being worse?

My opinion on Siasia and Keshi was relatively positive when they were both getting the results, and relatively negative when they stopped getting results, so you can't play that line on me.

So .... aren't foreign managers just as woeful outside Africa? Didn't Milutinovic disgrace us in 1998? Was Lagerback in 2010 better than Onigbinde in 2002? What is it that these foreign managers do that generates the hype? A person could be impressed that Manfred Hoerner got a silver in 1988, until the person realized Onigbinde got one in 1984.

Westerhof and Keshi both won the Nations Cup, both lost in the Second Round, both conceded many chances to famous Second Round opponents, both ultimately done in by late goals after key players were injured.

As for going along with Pinnick's decision until it fails or doesn't .... that would make sense if the costs were the same. But why pay ten times more to get the same thing you could get at the regular price? You and me, don't we earn regular salaries, same as any American with our qualifications and experience? If we showed up and said we will not work unless we are paid ten times more to do the same thing, wouldn't we both be on the plane back to Port Harcourt?

[platinum]

We are yet to address why Siasia 'failed' or why Keshi 'failed'... A progressive FA wins the AFCON with a coach and staff... what do they do, they retrenched his staff and told him the staff was bloated.

We know why they failed. The NFF may not have addressed why these failures came to pass.

We do? Why has Keshi 'failed' or more accurately why did he 'fail'?

In a nutshell:

1. Failed to motivate players as he used to
2. Selected poorer quality players and law of diminishing returns kicked in
3. Didn't or couldn't adapt tactically and team stagnated as a result.

I think your points are very open to interpretation, i.e. very subjective.

1) From all indications, the players were very much behind him and motivated to perform for their manager.
2) This is the point that really grinds my head to shreds when people make it. You'd think we had some super champions league material guys who he was leaving out (plus if i remember one of the things he was supposed to do when hired was bring in fresh blood right?). It was the difference between drinking garri with ewa and eating akamu with ewa. The difference isn't that great, all na supporting 'products'. Pinnick is making noise about some player from China, the same China with one of the highest paid players in world footie? It doesn't matter where the player plays as long as they fit in the manager's plan and perform. I don't buy it. There wasn't a world of difference in players chosen. For the most part, the starting XI was steady anyway. Give me a player who plays in Mongolia anyday over a player who plays in Germany as long as the Mongolia bobo delivers to the coach's plan and performs. We too like obfuscation for naija.
3) If the FA had sense, instead of firing the coach, it'd have been cheaper for them to get him a training gig somewhere compulsorily but that's not in their pocket's interest. I think Keshi could have done a better job here too though.

[1naija]

Ksehi is the reason we are having this foreign coach discussion. I said it before that his poor performance and lack of ideas will seal the fate of local coaches handling the Eagles again but people said I was bashing Keshi. No one in his right mind will blame the NFF if they opt for a foreign coach now. The local coaches have all proven to be worse than foreign coaches in managing the team. We should support Pinniks decisions until he fails. If he hires a foreign coach and it's a disaster we should fire both of them and move on. I believe we can fire our way to success and anyone that don't agree with me should gerrout. Nonsense.

Worse how? Siasia had the team playing better attacking football than any foreigner I remember in a while. Keshi had the team winning and equaling our best ever years so how exactly were the LC's 'bad'?

Yeah, but the same Keshi brigade whining now tore down Siasia, so what gives? If Siasia was bad and Keshi was horrible outside of Africa, isn't that being worse?

My opinion on Siasia and Keshi was relatively positive when they were both getting the results, and relatively negative when they stopped getting results, so you can't play that line on me.

So .... aren't foreign managers just as woeful outside Africa? Didn't Milutinovic disgrace us in 1998? Was Lagerback in 2010 better than Onigbinde in 2002? What is it that these foreign managers do that generates the hype? A person could be impressed that Manfred Hoerner got a silver in 1988, until the person realized Onigbinde got one in 1984.

Westerhof and Keshi both won the Nations Cup, both lost in the Second Round, both conceded many chances to famous Second Round opponents, both ultimately done in by late goals after key players were injured.

As for going along with Pinnick's decision until it fails or doesn't .... that would make sense if the costs were the same. But why pay ten times more to get the same thing you could get at the regular price? You and me, don't we earn regular salaries, same as any American with our qualifications and experience? If we showed up and said we will not work unless we are paid ten times more to do the same thing, wouldn't we both be on the plane back to Port Harcourt?

So what happened to Milutinovic, and Largerback after they failed woefully? Didn't they get fired? I don't know about you but I am paid the same salary range as my American counterpart. Now, if I am offered a lower end of that range and I accept it I can get angry that my American counterpart negotiated more. It's not because Keshi was a Nigerian that he was paid lower than what a foreigner was paid. It's because he accepted the amount he was offered. Go and offer $10,000 a month to a foreign coach and see if he accepts it. But Keshi happily accepted it knowing it was not enough. So we can't blame anyone for that.

[The YeyeMan]

1) From all indications, the players were very much behind him and motivated to perform for their manager.

No, no, no! From all indications the players did NOT look motivated against SA, Congo or Sudan. They did NOT. Only in the last game, when the team had no choice did they look motivated to win.

2) This is the point that really grinds my head to shreds when people make it. You'd think we had some super champions league material guys who he was leaving out (plus if i remember one of the things he was supposed to do when hired was bring in fresh blood right?). Pinnick is making noise about some player from China, the same China with one of the highest paid players in world footie? It doesn't matter where the player plays as long as they fit in the manager's plan and perform. I don't buy it. There wasn't a world of difference in players chosen. For the most part, the starting XI was steady anyway. Give me a player who plays in Mongolia anyday over a player who plays in Germany as long as the Mongolia bobo delivers to the coach's plan and performs. We too like obfuscation for naija.

No, no, no! The point is NOT about super champions league material players. You're creating a straw man. The point is having a standard for inviting players - not unknown players or injured players or club less players as Keshi often did. And people who say it doesn't matter where the players play are only kidding themselves. It DOES matter that Nigeria is scouring backwater leagues - it indicates a dearth of talent in higher quality leagues where the better players are found. But as we know, there are other reasons why Keshi would put stock in players plying their trade in China.... a player whose record hardly speaks volumes....

3) If the FA had sense, instead of firing the coach, it'd have been cheaper for them to get him a training gig somewhere compulsorily but that's not in their pocket's interest. I think Keshi could have done a better job here too though.

Keshi did enough to earn his sack despite the NFF's failings.

[platinum]

1) From all indications, the players were very much behind him and motivated to perform for their manager.

No, no, no! From all indications the players did NOT look motivated against SA, Congo or Sudan. They did NOT. Only in the last game, when the team had no choice did they look motivated to win.

Is that a Keshi issue? There's only so much any coach can do, we've seen SE do this time and time and time again when they play teams they deem too small. This is not peculiar to this set.

2) This is the point that really grinds my head to shreds when people make it. You'd think we had some super champions league material guys who he was leaving out (plus if i remember one of the things he was supposed to do when hired was bring in fresh blood right?). Pinnick is making noise about some player from China, the same China with one of the highest paid players in world footie? It doesn't matter where the player plays as long as they fit in the manager's plan and perform. I don't buy it. There wasn't a world of difference in players chosen. For the most part, the starting XI was steady anyway. Give me a player who plays in Mongolia anyday over a player who plays in Germany as long as the Mongolia bobo delivers to the coach's plan and performs. We too like obfuscation for naija.

No, no, no! The point is NOT about super champions league material players. You're creating a straw man. The point is having a standard for inviting players - not unknown players or injured players or club less players as Keshi often did. And people who say it doesn't matter where the players play are only kidding themselves. It DOES matter that Nigeria is scouring backwater leagues - it indicates a dearth of talent in higher quality leagues where the better players are found. But as we know, there are other reasons why Keshi would put stock in players plying their trade in China.... a player whose record hardly speaks volumes....

What would the standard be? Invite only players playing in the big leagues? We won't fill our starting XI! What would be a standard acceptable to you? I'm not kidding when I speak of the league because I've been saying on this board for a bit now, the quality of players we have is at the lowest it's been in ages as you acknowledge. When you have players in the lower leagues, what difference does it make scouting in China or scouting in Hungary? Those other reasons you allude to are not unique to Keshi, that's a Nigerian societal thing.

3) If the FA had sense, instead of firing the coach, it'd have been cheaper for them to get him a training gig somewhere compulsorily but that's not in their pocket's interest. I think Keshi could have done a better job here too though.

Keshi did enough to earn his sack despite the NFF's failings.

[The YeyeMan]

Is that a Keshi issue? There's only so much any coach can do, we've seen SE do this time and time and time again when they play teams they deem too small. This is not peculiar to this set.

Yes. In the past it was an issue for whichever coach was in charge. For those games it's Keshi's issue. He couldn't motivate his players, it's on him.

What would the standard be? Invite only players playing in the big leagues? We won't fill our starting XI! What would be a standard acceptable to you? I'm not kidding when I speak of the league because I've been saying on this board for a bit now, the quality of players we have is at the lowest it's been in ages as you acknowledge. When you have players in the lower leagues, what difference does it make scouting in China or scouting in Hungary? Those other reasons you allude to are not unique to Keshi, that's a Nigerian societal thing.

Scouting for unknown players in backwater leagues shouldn't happen and when it does it should be seriously queried. Players should be sought after where there is need. For example, there is Abiola Dauda playing and scoring in a high profile league, yet are we to believe that Keshi identified an opening, a need for a forward and believed the best option would be an unheralded player in China? I agree, this sort of wuruwuru isn't unique to Keshi but is IS Keshi we're talking about here. So because other coaches have made dodgy selections doesn't mean we should excuse Keshi's. First you create a standard, there can be exceptions to one's criteria but a player would need to be exceptional to break through.

[platinum]

Is that a Keshi issue? There's only so much any coach can do, we've seen SE do this time and time and time again when they play teams they deem too small. This is not peculiar to this set.

Yes. In the past it was an issue for whichever coach was in charge. For those games it's Keshi's issue. He couldn't motivate his players, it's on him.



What would the standard be? Invite only players playing in the big leagues? We won't fill our starting XI! What would be a standard acceptable to you? I'm not kidding when I speak of the league because I've been saying on this board for a bit now, the quality of players we have is at the lowest it's been in ages as you acknowledge. When you have players in the lower leagues, what difference does it make scouting in China or scouting in Hungary? Those other reasons you allude to are not unique to Keshi, that's a Nigerian societal thing.

Scouting for unknown players in backwater leagues shouldn't happen and when it does it should be seriously queried. Players should be sought after where there is need. For example, there is Abiola Dauda playing and scoring in a high profile league, yet are we to believe that Keshi identified an opening, a need for a forward and believed the best option would be an unheralded player in China? I agree, this sort of wuruwuru isn't unique to Keshi but is IS Keshi we're talking about here. So because other coaches have made dodgy selections doesn't mean we should excuse Keshi's. First you create a standard, there can be exceptions to one's criteria but a player would need to be exceptional to break through.

- You can't just isolate an event when it happens every time. You learn nothing and keep repeating those errors. If the SE keep getting accused of being lackadaisical, why not address that point now and kill it once and for all? You're saying it's on this last coach but how can that be when the problem has happened with every other coach? The difference I see with this set is they're not gifted enough to have off days like the other SE used to.

Did the Samuel kid score or not? I'd have invited Dauda for sure if I were Keshi...if only to cover my butt but the guy he invited did the job he was called to do. That whole 'unheralded' deal doesn't hack it with me. 50% of the present squad were unheralded, people were crying for TT for crying out loud! The coach lives and dies by his decisions, Nigeria wasn't performing poorly because of players invited or not invited. None of the guys who were 'blacklisted' has kanu/okocha like talent. They're all guys who are functional pieces in a unit. Kelechi may be the one gamebreaker in that list, the others are not that. Not Martins, not Uche, not Dauda. Good players but lets not crown them kings of anything just because they were left out.

You still didn't say what YOUR standard would be. From the way you're speaking, am I right in guessing you would have gone for only 'heralded' players?

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

LMAO. Its obvious hes not in this for the money, or he'll be crying to the Government. Private companies you can't easily mess with. I feel you guys, but truth be told; After Keshi, I really don't mind giving a foreigner a chance.

Keshi's final year or so was .... disappointing, and he probably should have been relieved of his job after the World Cup (and probably would have been if not for the baffling NFF politics) .....

.... but if you are still willing to give foreigners a chance after Milutinovic (Denmark, etc), Bonfrere (Keshi/Siasia-like failure in qualifiers), Vogts (need I say more?), and Lagerback (really, need I say more?) .....

.... why not extend the same benefit of the doubt to a Nigerian, especially since the most recent Nigerian to occupy the job won the Nations Cup and reached the World Cup Second Round?

I belong to the camp of people especially angry at Keshi for making the sort of inexplicably bad decisions that have resurrected the moribund Foreign Coach Movement .... though it is interesting that the successes of Keshi are written off as irrelevant, while amnesia appears to have eroded memories of the failures of foreign managers.

We are back to pretending that hiring a foreigner for a bunch more money guarantees improvement over any and all Nigerians.

PS: We are also back to lying to ourselves that the NFF will hire a non-journeyman foreigner.

I agree with you...

It was our collective responsibility not to allow Keshi fail... it was NEVER about Keshi.

The same natives are complaining about the dearth of coaching opportunities for minorities (in the UK and beyond) yet will be quick to look outside than give our people the opportunity.

Anyway, it is all Keshi's fault... he made it about himself.

Same exact thing I had previously said. Let any NFF person explain to me if an FC, even with guaranteed results, will improve our footie. Unless we believe we already have EVERYTHING in place and working well except a "World Class" coach.

In fact, the NFF should fire themselves. Useless natives incapable of conducting simple elections with less than 20 voters.

[Mr. Piffington]

I really hope this man didn't say any of this stuff. Not a single word there makes any sense.

Why don't they get a foreign FA to realize their potential? Also hire a foreign head of state, heck bring the British back to colonize the country.

We might as well. Tell me one good thing that we've effectively managed?