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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:51 pm 
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http://www.espnfc.us/german-bundesliga/ ... bundesliga

There are wholly unrelated and individual reasons why England's clubs all failed to achieve positive results this week in the Champions League. There always are. Arsenal throwing away a 3-0 lead at home was a freak result (in statistical terms, at least), Liverpool seemed to play for a narrow defeat in Madrid, Chelsea weren't under any real pressure to win at Maribor and Manchester City... god knows.

But a look at recent seasons suggests that these shocks should no longer come as a surprise. Since leading UEFA's country coefficient rankings in 2007-08 -- the year of the all-English Champions League final in Moscow -- Premier League clubs have slowly but steadily chalked up less impressive results in European competitions.

(The UEFA ranking measures Champions League and Europa League performances. With roughly the top third of the big leagues being assessed, they give a pretty good account of the average strength of the bigger sides in their respective countries.)

Spain took over first place after the 2012-13 season. Now, England are in acute danger of slipping to third place. As things stand, Germany could well be rated as the second-strongest league in Europe come next August.
Man City are spending so much money but failing in Europe. It simply shouldn't happen.

Time for a few caveats. First and foremost, England's slip has no practical consequences whatsoever. They will still keep their four starting places as the third-best league for years to come. (Fifth-placed Serie A have no realistic chance of challenging either Germany or England in the foreseeable future.)

The damage to the Premier League "brand" will be negligible, too. Their global TV hegemony began in the 1990s, a time when English clubs were miles behind the European competition. Fans and neutrals obviously value the product, irrespective of doubts about its relative quality.
Best of Champions League Matchday 4


But the fact that the Bundesliga is likely to be ahead of the world's wealthiest league for the first time since 1999-2000 should still set alarm bells ringing. Something is very wrong when German clubs, who collectively make one billion pounds ($1.59bn) less than the Premier League (turnover: £2.7 billion/$4.29 billion in 2012-13), achieve better results. Last year's figures will show that the financial gap has actually widened further due to the new Prem TV deal. The Bundesliga shouldn't even be close as far as on the pitch performances go.

So what's happening?

One paradoxical answer is that the Premier League's weakness in Europe might actually be a consequence of its strength, as far as the high levels of internal competitiveness goes. Germany has Bayern; Spain boasts Real Madrid and Barcelona. They dominate their local markets and can use those positions for leverage in Europe; no English team is in a similar position.

But as an explanation, this still falls flat. The above-average power of Bayern, Madrid and Barca should logically be offset by the below-average power from inferior teams from those leagues. Yet the numbers suggest otherwise.

Schalke 04 (turnover £161m/$256m in 2012-13) have performed better than Arsenal (£283m/$450m in 2012-13) over the past five seasons in Europe, while Leverkusen (£78m/$124m in 2012-13) are currently ranked higher than Manchester City (£271m/$431m in 2012-13). And so are FC Basel, by the way.
Schalke have been performing better than Arsenal, further proof of the Prem's shortcomings.

With their bafflingly inadequate showings and systematic targeting of top players from other English Champions League sides, Man City have unwittingly done more than others to break the Premier League hegemony in Europe after 2008. Their rivals either lost key personnel to the Etihad or had to tie them down at vastly-inflated wages to ward off advances. Wayne Rooney's £300,000 per week ($478,000) deal is the perfect example.

But in a sense, the new money from Abu Dhabi has only exacerbated an existing trend. Too much money is chasing too few (genuine) talents in the Premier League, too much capital is tied up in 19-year-old left-backs who cost £30m ($48m) like Luke Shaw and indigenous quality is subsequently spread too thinly between the top clubs.

On top of that, the lack of properly functioning supply-lines -- either from within each club or the league itself -- creates immense pressure to buy abroad. So you end up with a desperate Manchester United paying £60m ($95m) for Angel Di Maria -- about £15m ($24m) more than PSG and Bayern Munich were quoted for the winger a few weeks earlier. As long as wages and transfer fees in the Premier League continue to simply increase in line with revenues, England's financial edge over the rest of Europe will continue to be neutralised.
Clubs like Atletico Madrid prove that spending more money doesn't buy you titles but English clubs remain unmoved.

There's a bigger cultural issue, too. Ever since Chelsea and City became super-powers with the help of wealthy owners, the mentality has set in that only huge financial investment can bring success. You can see it in the public discourse: it's all a matter of spending big on new, better players or bringing in new and better coaches. To a man with lots of money in his pocket, every problem looks like it can be solved with cash. It's as if there are no other options being considered.

English football would immensely profit (no pun intended) from a Dortmund or Atletico Madrid, who have shown that there are other ways to get ahead. With cutting-edge coaching, for example. BVB won the league in 2011 with a wage bill of £46m ($73m) -- the equivalent of Stoke City's in the same season. Maybe Southampton can change the mindset, but don't hold your breath.
More from Raphael Honigstein



Spain's second-tier clubs, and all German teams below Bayern, had to learn to be smart with their relatively modest resources. There is no secret, just good practice. They scout better, produce more decent players from their academies and rely on vast local managerial know-how that naturally throws up reasonable candidates. Again, the contrast is sharp: Harry Redknapp is the only English manager with any Champions League experience over the past decade.

It's far too early to say whether German clubs will continue to outdo the Premier League on the international stage. Borussia Dortmund might not be there next season, while new Champions League qualifiers like TSG Hoffenheim or Borussia Monchengladbach could find themselves ill-equipped to perform at that level. The UEFA rankings can't predict the future but they do provide an objective insight into the recent past and the present. And in England's case, it's nothing short of an indictment.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:00 pm 
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Tactical sterility. City had no business playing 4-4-2 and Arsenal are turning up to collect shirts and autographs. Liverpool are pathetic, the only EPL team with a purpose is Chelsea, the rest are pacemakers bound to drop off after a few laps and let the Ngugis take over.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:03 pm 
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Coachito: The author makes some interesting points especially his view that the wealth of the league means too many clubs are just buying players as opposed to solidifying the supply lines

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:05 pm 
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EPL don dey fall my hand, since last 2 seasons, they've been poor. assanal is the worst of them all..

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:09 pm 
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YUJAM wrote:
Coachito: The author makes some interesting points especially his view that the wealth of the league means too many clubs are just buying players as opposed to solidifying the supply lines

what supply lines, the coaching methods at youth level is woeful my pikin play sunday league the coaching is woeful

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:12 pm 
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@Yuj, they're more interested in the brand than the ball. How does one watch the competition boast Mullers and Messis and then fill the shopping trolley with reduced to clear Podolskis and Gervais. All about the brand, with the marketing strategy of a baggy minged, broke prostitute.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:16 pm 
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YUJAM wrote:
Spain's second-tier clubs, and all German teams below Bayern, had to learn to be smart with their relatively modest resources. There is no secret, just good practice. They scout better, produce more decent players from their academies and rely on vast local managerial know-how that naturally throws up reasonable candidates.


I said something similar a while ago.
Quote:
Incidentally, Bilbao only sign Basque players. Youth development is how they stay competitive.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=252166&hilit=tebas

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:19 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
Spain's second-tier clubs, and all German teams below Bayern, had to learn to be smart with their relatively modest resources. There is no secret, just good practice. They scout better, produce more decent players from their academies and rely on vast local managerial know-how that naturally throws up reasonable candidates.


I said something similar a while ago.
Quote:
Incidentally, Bilbao only sign Basque players. Youth development is how they stay competitive.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=252166&hilit=tebas

:D no one pays you attention, you don't count, london buses dey wait wash

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:26 pm 
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Dude - Why do you keep insulting forumers?

Bigpokey24 wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
Spain's second-tier clubs, and all German teams below Bayern, had to learn to be smart with their relatively modest resources. There is no secret, just good practice. They scout better, produce more decent players from their academies and rely on vast local managerial know-how that naturally throws up reasonable candidates.


I said something similar a while ago.
Quote:
Incidentally, Bilbao only sign Basque players. Youth development is how they stay competitive.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=252166&hilit=tebas

:D no one pays you attention, you don't count, london buses dey wait wash

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:28 pm 
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Coach wrote:
Tactical sterility. City had no business playing 4-4-2 and Arsenal are turning up to collect shirts and autographs. Liverpool are pathetic, the only EPL team with a purpose is Chelsea, the rest are pacemakers bound to drop off after a few laps and let the Ngugis take over.


Coach, Southampton get serious purpose too.
I believe by the 2nd half of season, we shall witness more purposeful football, showing why the EPL is the Best in the World


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:31 pm 
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YUJAM wrote:
Dude - Why do you keep insulting forumers?

Bigpokey24 wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
Spain's second-tier clubs, and all German teams below Bayern, had to learn to be smart with their relatively modest resources. There is no secret, just good practice. They scout better, produce more decent players from their academies and rely on vast local managerial know-how that naturally throws up reasonable candidates.


I said something similar a while ago.
Quote:
Incidentally, Bilbao only sign Basque players. Youth development is how they stay competitive.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=252166&hilit=tebas

:D no one pays you attention, you don't count, london buses dey wait wash

dude i do not insult forumers..that is a FACT, surprised you turn a blind eye when i get insulted hmmmmm interesting, not once have i seen or read a post from you asking why is bigpokey being insulted?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:05 pm 
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I think only few teams are not failing in Europe.
EPL team is always in the thick of action.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:19 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
Dude - Why do you keep insulting forumers?

Bigpokey24 wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
YUJAM wrote:
Spain's second-tier clubs, and all German teams below Bayern, had to learn to be smart with their relatively modest resources. There is no secret, just good practice. They scout better, produce more decent players from their academies and rely on vast local managerial know-how that naturally throws up reasonable candidates.


I said something similar a while ago.
Quote:
Incidentally, Bilbao only sign Basque players. Youth development is how they stay competitive.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=252166&hilit=tebas

:D no one pays you attention, you don't count, london buses dey wait wash

dude i do not insult forumers..that is a FACT, surprised you turn a blind eye when i get insulted hmmmmm interesting, not once have i seen or read a post from you asking why is bigpokey being insulted?

calling u a moron is not an insult..na compliment :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:33 pm 
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Yujam , paj is trying to derail your thread oooo

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:40 pm 
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YUJAM wrote:
Coachito: The author makes some interesting points especially his view that the wealth of the league means too many clubs are just buying players as opposed to solidifying the supply lines

So how do these supply lines affect the results of today (or yesterday)? Apart from Liverpool with a squad of more english players, most squads are predominantly players that were imported from other leagues that are supposedly doing well in Europe. So, I am trying to understand the correlation.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:10 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
Yujam , paj is trying to derail your thread oooo


Get it together! You are no more a baby!!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:14 pm 
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blueangel wrote:
Coach wrote:
Tactical sterility. City had no business playing 4-4-2 and Arsenal are turning up to collect shirts and autographs. Liverpool are pathetic, the only EPL team with a purpose is Chelsea, the rest are pacemakers bound to drop off after a few laps and let the Ngugis take over.


Coach, Southampton get serious purpose too.
I believe by the 2nd half of season, we shall witness more purposeful football, showing why the EPL is the Best in the World


I am not sure Southampton is a team that wants to play in the Champions league. Why? Because they sell players every year. They even sell coaches as well. It is a very good club but they are a club only interested in selling.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:09 pm 
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kolinzo wrote:
blueangel wrote:
Coach wrote:
Tactical sterility. City had no business playing 4-4-2 and Arsenal are turning up to collect shirts and autographs. Liverpool are pathetic, the only EPL team with a purpose is Chelsea, the rest are pacemakers bound to drop off after a few laps and let the Ngugis take over.


Coach, Southampton get serious purpose too.
I believe by the 2nd half of season, we shall witness more purposeful football, showing why the EPL is the Best in the World


I am not sure Southampton is a team that wants to play in the Champions league. Why? Because they sell players every year. They even sell coaches as well. It is a very good club but they are a club only interested in selling.


I don't think they are a club only interested in selling, they are realistic enough to know they aren't big enough to keep their best players so they get to work finding replacements for a soon to be departed star.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:48 pm 
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Honestly I'm getting upset at Liverpool, arsenal and Man City, disgrace to EPL. Better yet I'm beginning to question the quality of the league self.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:11 am 
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The EPL damages English clubs in Europe. City is the prime example of this. City is probably the most talented club in the EPL but that team wins game in England by roughing up the opponent. In Europe that brand of football is sanctioned. Chelsea was once like City until the team changed is style of play when outside of England. Arsenal and Pool are not just good enough.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:15 am 
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I judt don't get why spend so much on luke shaw

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:34 am 
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So what about Serie A, La Ligue etc clubs?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:05 am 
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anointed wrote:
So what about Serie A, La Ligue etc clubs?

Read the article :-)

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