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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:14 pm 
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wiseone wrote:
Man Utd's record since Carrick returned to the team:

6 wins in 6 games
13 goals scored
3 goals conceded

Man Utd's record before Carrick returned to the team:

3 wins in 10 games
17 goals conceded
14 goals scored



this is the kind of thing i am talking about

now if i may ask you a question, ever since Carrick came back, has the defending improved to brilliant levels potrayed by those stats ?
Those stats suggest that Man Utd is now a very defensively solid side because of the return of Carrick, and i say thats not the case

This Carrick hype is not convincing me


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:39 pm 
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benteke wrote:
wiseone wrote:
Man Utd's record since Carrick returned to the team:

6 wins in 6 games
13 goals scored
3 goals conceded

Man Utd's record before Carrick returned to the team:

3 wins in 10 games
17 goals conceded
14 goals scored



this is the kind of thing i am talking about

now if i may ask you a question, ever since Carrick came back, has the defending improved to brilliant levels potrayed by those stats ?
Those stats suggest that Man Utd is now a very defensively solid side because of the return of Carrick, and i say thats not the case

This Carrick hype is not convincing me

Degea has been saving out butt to be honest with you.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:11 pm 
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bamenda boy wrote:
benteke wrote:
wiseone wrote:
Man Utd's record since Carrick returned to the team:

6 wins in 6 games
13 goals scored
3 goals conceded

Man Utd's record before Carrick returned to the team:

3 wins in 10 games
17 goals conceded
14 goals scored



this is the kind of thing i am talking about

now if i may ask you a question, ever since Carrick came back, has the defending improved to brilliant levels potrayed by those stats ?
Those stats suggest that Man Utd is now a very defensively solid side because of the return of Carrick, and i say thats not the case

This Carrick hype is not convincing me

Degea has been saving out butt to be honest with you.


there you go,
by the way its not a crime for De Gea to be saving our butt and helping us win

But the small problem i have, you now find the british media pundits crediting these recent 6 wins to the return of Carrick and selectively using stats to try and make it seem as if the Man Utd defensive play has improved dramatically because of Carrick return.
You get Gary Neville playing a few 5 second clips of Carrick in a game to support this fallacy.
I believe all this is inaccurate misrepresentation of stats and as such i remain unconvinced,

Not to say Carrick is a bad player, but theres something wrong, i just cant put a finger to it


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:08 pm 
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Carrick (next to DDG) has been Man Utd's best player in the past 6 games. He is the type of player under-appreciated by fans because he doesn't run around charging like a headless chicken, and doesn't dribble past 2 players then blast the ball 20 yards into the stand (AKA the type of player who excites fans but does not provide much to the team).

Carrick rarely gives the ball away, always "shows" for the ball and collects it from defenders, and relieves pressure off his defence by spreading the play and keeping possession. This is the type of thing that the average football fan does not "see". It takes an "educated football eye" to spot things like that. That is why the likes of Neville, Didi Hamann, and Carragher (who have played in Champions League finals and the World Cup) keep raving about how important Carrick is, while fans think he is crud.

This is what Dietmar Hamman said about him today:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30472067
Quote:
Man Utd: 'Michael Carrick the catalyst for their return to form'

David De Gea's saves will grab the headlines but Michael Carrick played a big part in Manchester United's 3-0 victory over Liverpool and it does not surprise me that they have now won all six games since he returned to their starting line-up after injury.

Carrick is probably used to playing well and seeing other players get the plaudits, but you can tell how much his team-mates value him.
United striker Robin van Persie said after Sunday's game that Carrick made the difference at the back because he was so confident on the ball and helped to calm the whole defence. That sums it up.


Carrick sets the tempo on a regular basis for United
, only he is usually operating in central midfield rather than at centre-back, as he was against Liverpool.
He has the attributes to play in both positions, though, and the only problem he gives United boss Louis van Gaal is that there is only one of him - at the moment Van Gaal would probably love to play him at the back and in midfield too.

Carrick is very under-rated outside of Old Trafford but he clearly has a huge influence on United.
Sometimes, with players like him, you only realise how important they are when they don't play. I think his absence really showed that at the start of this season, especially with this United team being so uncertain at the back.
Now he is fit, he brings them the stability they were missing, partly through his passing ability which helps to set the team's tempo.
He helps keep the team ticking over by picking the right pass and spreading play like he did against Liverpool.


Carrick vs Liverpool
Carrick touched the ball 59 times, and made 52 passes with a completion rate of 90.4%
Carrick understands that, whether you are playing centre-back or central midfield, you have to react to what is happening on the pitch.
He is not a player who plays to the crowd by trying the spectacular, instead he plays for the team - which is why his team-mates appreciate him so much.
The way he plays, you know he is always available and ready for the ball. And, if you give it to him then, nine times out of 10, he will retain possession.


Carrick's main strengths are on the ball, but he can tackle too and he made a few vital challenges against Liverpool.
Yes, it probably suited him in the first half on Sunday that Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers picked a side without a recognised centre-forward.

That still meant he had to deal with Reds forward Raheem Sterling, who is lightning quick. Carrick is not the fastest but he never looked out of position as the middle centre-back in a three-man back-line, which tells you about his awareness and positional sense.

He is the sort of player that you can rely on, and one that you always know what you are getting from.
I remember coming up against him when he came through at West Ham and then moved to Tottenham, and I have always rated him.

Many years ago, I thought England were making a mistake not building a team around him and he has gone on to become the best defensive midfielder that they have had in the last 15 years.
Yes, he has gone to major tournaments with England but he has only won 31 caps.
At 32 he is now nearing the end of his career, but I am surprised he was never given more of a chance on the international stage.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:47 pm 
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Having a calmong effect on the pitch in intense situations is a skill, how people ate questioning all the accolades he has been getting shows they dont really know much about the game

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:52 pm 
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wiseone wrote:
Carrick (next to DDG) has been Man Utd's best player in the past 6 games. He is the type of player under-appreciated by fans because he doesn't run around charging like a headless chicken, and doesn't dribble past 2 players then blast the ball 20 yards into the stand (AKA the type of player who excites fans but does not provide much to the team).

Carrick rarely gives the ball away, always "shows" for the ball and collects it from defenders, and relieves pressure off his defence by spreading the play and keeping possession. This is the type of thing that the average football fan does not "see". It takes an "educated football eye" to spot things like that. That is why the likes of Neville, Didi Hamann, and Carragher (who have played in Champions League finals and the World Cup) keep raving about how important Carrick is, while fans think he is crud.

This is what Dietmar Hamman said about him today:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30472067


:biggrin:

ok wiseone, in your opinion, why do you think Man Utd is not playing very well in these last 3/4 games that Van Gaal has been complaining about the style of play needing to improve, bearing in mind that Man Utd hasnt been looking calm in possesion of late


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:05 am 
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The average Nigerian football fan only "sees" things like dribbles into the corner flag that go nowhere. They do not realise that not everyone has the dribbling skills of Okocha or the pace of CR7. Interception, anticipating, retaining possession, and strategic positioning are football skills. Players like Carrick are a "safety net" that allow players like CR7, Di Maria etc to express their flair.

marko wrote:
Having a calmong effect on the pitch in intense situations is a skill, how people ate questioning all the accolades he has been getting shows they dont really know much about the game


Last edited by wiseone on Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:15 am 
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marko wrote:
Having a calmong effect on the pitch in intense situations is a skill, how people ate questioning all the accolades he has been getting shows they dont really know much about the game



that calm is missing from Man Utd in the last 4 games, despite the wins mind you, hence why im wondering why people are praising someone for the very thing that is missing in the team at the moment


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:19 am 
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Because the lack of calm exists in others, not Carrick individually.

Carrick is not responsible for Jonny Evans playing a brainless "back pass" straight to an opposition attacker, or 19 yo Paddy McNair repeatedly passing the ball to footballers that don't play for Man Utd. Carrick is however responsible for completing over 90% of his own passes, and keeping the ball away from some of his less accurate team mates before they do something insane with it.

benteke wrote:
marko wrote:
Having a calmong effect on the pitch in intense situations is a skill, how people ate questioning all the accolades he has been getting shows they dont really know much about the game



that calm is missing from Man Utd in the last 4 games, despite the wins mind you, hence why im wondering why people are praising someone for the very thing that is missing in the team at the moment


Last edited by wiseone on Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:36 am 
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wiseone wrote:
Because the lack of calm exists in others, not Carrick individually.

Carrick is not responsible for Jonny Evans playing a brainless "back pass" straight to an opposition attacker ,or 19 yo Paddy McNair repeatedly passing the ball to footballers that don't play for Man Utd. Carrick is however responsible for completing over 90% of his own passes, and keeping the ball away from some of his less accurate team mates before they do something insane with it.

benteke wrote:
marko wrote:
Having a calmong effect on the pitch in intense situations is a skill, how people ate questioning all the accolades he has been getting shows they dont really know much about the game



that calm is missing from Man Utd in the last 4 games, despite the wins mind you, hence why im wondering why people are praising someone for the very thing that is missing in the team at the moment



but your articles say he has brought a calming effect to the team, not sure what thats supposed to mean because the team looks less calm of late

by the way that Evans back-pass incident , when you look at it agin, dont you think Carrick is also part-culpable ? :sneaky:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:52 am 
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How can Carrick be responsible for Jonny Evans playing an insane bouncing 40 yard back pass to his own GK with the fastest opposition player in the EPL lurking nearby?! :shock:

Good grief, you really have it in for Carrick!

benteke wrote:
[

by the way that Evans back-pass incident , when you look at it agin, dont you think Carrick is also part-culpable ? :sneaky:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:55 am 
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Two players we need to sigh. Alex Song, and Bahimi.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:44 am 
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sorry Evans, mcnair should not wear united jerseys for a while, like i said, we have suffered a lot of injuries, people are actually complaining about the double training sessions Van Gaal introduced, i ams ure we will get all our players fit at some stage, we just have to stay on the toes of city and chelsea and anything might just happen

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Nigerian Eagles were losing 3 nil, Best Ogedengbe just let in another goal, The NigerIan man slapped his wife and wanted to beat his kid out of frustration, NEPA struck, Irate crowd gathered and beat them to pulp, NEPA restored light with extra current, Alhaji 12 inch TV went so bright, he went blind temporarily, all this happened in 90 minutes
Marko


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:43 am 
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McNair is young and still learning
Evans has plateaued, nothing will change with him

I have my doubts abouts Tyler Blackett too, but we go see

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:47 pm 
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tfco wrote:
McNair is young and still learning
Evans has plateaued, nothing will change with him

I have my doubts abouts Tyler Blackett too, but we go see


same here about Blackett, does not inspire confidence, Van Gaal will fix the defensive issue, i trust he will, we might have to buy defenders, at least 2 and possibly in midfield, right now with the limited resources we have, we are not doing too bad, once you have world class finishers in the mould of Rooney and vanpersie, we will always score goals, right now De Gea is worth 20 points a season!! what schimichel or Van de sar used to bring to the table, as far as we can outscore the other team, we will win games right now barinfg injuries to key players!! funny enough we beat liverpool with majority of Alex Ferguson side except Mata and Fellaini, if Van gaal can get more than 100% from the players each week, we will definitely finish top 4, we might not be playing well but that confidence factor winning 6 games on the trot is very important for the team, people seem to have forgotten its the same man united that have won 20 titles!!

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Nigerian Eagles were losing 3 nil, Best Ogedengbe just let in another goal, The NigerIan man slapped his wife and wanted to beat his kid out of frustration, NEPA struck, Irate crowd gathered and beat them to pulp, NEPA restored light with extra current, Alhaji 12 inch TV went so bright, he went blind temporarily, all this happened in 90 minutes
Marko


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:51 pm 
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Good grief. Please never say that again. I do not want that unreliable maniac Song anywhere near Man Utd. The guy is a bomb scare.

bamenda boy wrote:
Two players we need to sigh. Alex Song, and Bahimi.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:53 pm 
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Yes, the odd thing about the Liverpool game is that the entire starting 11 was available to Moyes last season. None of the LVG signing started the game (Di Maria, Shaw, Rojo, Blind, Herrera, Falcao).

When I think about it, Moyes had a better squad than SAF had. Moyes had SAF's squad PLUS the best player from Chelsea, and the best player from Everton.

marko wrote:
funny enough we beat liverpool with majority of Alex Ferguson side except Mata and Fellaini, if Van gaal can get more than 100% from the players each week, we will definitely finish top 4, we might not be playing well but that confidence factor winning 6 games on the trot is very important for the team, people seem to have forgotten its the same man united that have won 20 titles!!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:05 pm 
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wiseone wrote:
Yes, the odd thing about the Liverpool game is that the entire starting 11 was available to Moyes last season. None of the LVG signing started the game (Di Maria, Shaw, Rojo, Blind, Herrera, Falcao).

When I think about it, Moyes had a better squad than SAF had. Moyes had SAF's squad PLUS the best player from Chelsea, and the best player from Everton.

marko wrote:
funny enough we beat liverpool with majority of Alex Ferguson side except Mata and Fellaini, if Van gaal can get more than 100% from the players each week, we will definitely finish top 4, we might not be playing well but that confidence factor winning 6 games on the trot is very important for the team, people seem to have forgotten its the same man united that have won 20 titles!!


It really put david Moyes into perspective, last season i could not believe that a team that won the title were playing like wimbledon, van Gaal will improve the team, he has done it around Europe, secretely our rivals will be having nightmares that the team is not even operating in full capacity but we are grinding results

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:06 pm 
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wiseone wrote:
Good grief. Please never say that again. I do not want that unreliable maniac Song anywhere near Man Utd. The guy is a bomb scare.

bamenda boy wrote:
Two players we need to sigh. Alex Song, and Bahimi.

:rotf: :rotf: I like Song though - should be a good fit for the current Man Utd. I agree that Song na real 'bomb scare' but I don't think United are strangers to 'maniacal' players anyway - just channel it to the full benefit of the team.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:23 pm 
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The mercurial players like Keane, Cantona, and CR7 were tolerated at Man Utd because their match winning abilities made up for the odd tantrum, red card, or flying kick into the crowd! In Song's case he is not a match winner. So you end up with a player that is a headache and does not win matches = liability.

If I was the manager of Cameroon I'd never pick him again after what he did here:

Image

YemiBrazil wrote:
:rotf: :rotf: I like Song though - should be a good fit for the current Man Utd. I agree that Song na real 'bomb scare' but I don't think United are strangers to 'maniacal' players anyway - just channel it to the full benefit of the team.


Last edited by wiseone on Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:08 pm 
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wiseone wrote:
Good grief. Please never say that again. I do not want that unreliable maniac Song anywhere near Man Utd. The guy is a bomb scare.

bamenda boy wrote:
Two players we need to sigh. Alex Song, and Bahimi.

You are kidding, right? Please give details why he is a bomb scare.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:08 pm 
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wiseone wrote:
How can Carrick be responsible for Jonny Evans playing an insane bouncing 40 yard back pass to his own GK with the fastest opposition player in the EPL lurking nearby?! :shock:

Good grief, you really have it in for Carrick!



dude i dont have it in for the guy, i simply said i am not convinced by this crediting of the recent 6 wins to being down to the return of Carrick and the claims that he has brought calm to the side, because calm is claerly lacking

if anything i think its just a coincidence

wiseone wrote:
Is it a coincidence that Man Utd put together a winning streak and climbed up the table AFTER Carrick's return to the team?


wiseone wrote:
Man Utd's record since Carrick returned to the team:

6 wins in 6 games
13 goals scored
3 goals conceded

Man Utd's record before Carrick returned to the team:

3 wins in 10 games
17 goals conceded
14 goals scored


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:10 pm 
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wiseone wrote:
The mercurial players like Keane, Cantona, and CR7 were tolerated at Man Utd because their match winning abilities made up for the odd tantrum, red card, or flying kick into the crowd! In Song's case he is not a match winner. So you end up with a player that is a headache and does not win matches = liability.

If I was the manager of Cameroon I'd never pick him again after what he did here:

Image

YemiBrazil wrote:
:rotf: :rotf: I like Song though - should be a good fit for the current Man Utd. I agree that Song na real 'bomb scare' but I don't think United are strangers to 'maniacal' players anyway - just channel it to the full benefit of the team.

If I get you correctly, you are using an incident to assess a player on his whole career?

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Only two things in life are certain - death and taxes. But there is one other unpleasant certainty: criticism. No one escapes it entirely and often our careers, our emotional stability, even our happiness depends on how we react to it."By Benjamin Franklin"


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