Cybereagles

@Piff, in addendum...

'"Bilardo saw football in a way we were not used to in Argentina – tactical, the way you were supposed to live, the way you were expected to think,'" says midfielder Jorge Burruchaga. '"As a coach, first of all he thinks about the '˜nil'™, making sure no goals are scored against you."

"œThe team was based on a very solid architecture and, in the midst, a genius who was granted the privilege of freedom," explains striker Jorge Valdano, former sporting director at Real Madrid. "œThe influence of Maradona was so significant it seemed to spread to the entire team, yet the team was very structured from a tactical viewpoint, and each one of us had very precise obligations."

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Thinking first of the nil has made Mourinho one of the game's finest coaches. Diego the coach claimed Gutierez his key man, fielded him at fullback, wingback, centre mid, on occasions, during the same game. As for Sabella, on the eve of the Big Dance he said he closed his eyes whenever the opposition attacked. Messi has had the misfortune of being managed at national level by two men who, rather than address the glaringly obvious, dressed it in a fluorescent leotard and sang Bambaleo.

For all the column inches devoted to Maradona, the triumph was as much a testament to the talents of Carlos Bilardo, vilified in his own country just weeks earlier. A banner in the crowd read, '˜Sorry, Bilardo. Thank you'™, while in due course his 3-5-2 formation would be taken up around the world. But even at the point of his greatest triumph, this obsessive student of the game was unable to stop hatching plans.

"We were in the shower singing," says Brown, "and he came to tell us, '˜Just remember we'™ve got a World Cup to defend in 1990'™. Only a half hour earlier we had won the World Cup and he was already thinking about the next one.
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Have said it for some time, twas not just Maradona. Matthaus done a decent enough job on him in the final, by then, Argentina were already the machine Billardo had envisioned and diligently devised.

Benedict Iroha wrote:Until messi single handedly leads argentina to a world cup win...then yes.....but now No....messi playing in the premier league won't be as successful....he benefits greatly from the barca system

I was waiting for this argument. This is a very simplistic way of measuring the greatness of an individual in a team game.

In the Continent of Africa, one of the best to ever lace his boot , George Opong Weah never lifted the trophy. Does that make him any less of a player? Search through other sports and they are littered with players who were regarded as the best of their era or amongst the best but never reached the ultimate goal.

There are lots of factors that affect the result of a competition. So using the world cup as a yardstick is just plain simplistic and unfair.

Cito wrote:

Benedict Iroha wrote:Until messi single handedly leads argentina to a world cup win...then yes.....but now No....messi playing in the premier league won't be as successful....he benefits greatly from the barca system

I was waiting for this argument. This is a very simplistic way of measuring the greatness of an individual in a team game.

In the Continent of Africa, one of the best to ever lace his boot , George Opong Weah never lifted the trophy. Does that make him any less of a player? Search through other sports and they are littered with players who were regarded as the best of their era or amongst the best but never reached the ultimate goal.

There are lots of factors that affect the result of a competition. So using the world cup as a yardstick is just plain simplistic and unfair.

You can't call it "simplistic and unfair" because people have their opinions. There are those who don't deny Messi being a great player however he's has only played for one team and has never won he WC. Maradona did both.

Not this cyclical debate again by the Messi brigade. #sigh

Let's establish a couple of basic premises:

1. To postulate (even as a question) that Messi is now better than Maradona, is to suggest that Messi is now arguably the greatest of all time (leaving the Maradona v Pele debate out of the equation for simplicity)

2. The title of greatest of all time in any sport should be reserved for a player who is exceptionally gifted AND is able to use his gift to CONSISTENTLY raise the game of mere mortals -- not to mention men who are several notches above mere mortals -- around him to make a difference in many games but most importantly, in pivotal heavyweight matchups to deliver results and trophies. Examples of such heavyweight matchups at both club and country levels are Milan vs ManU 2005 and France v Brazil 2006.

If we agree with these basic premises, can anyone in football's Messianic Movement please give examples of games where Messi has come through in this regard for both club and country?

theDunamis wrote:Not this cyclical debate again by the Messi brigade. #sigh

Let's establish a couple of basic premises:

1. To postulate (even as a question) that Messi is now better than Maradona, is to suggest that Messi is now arguably the greatest of all time (leaving the Maradona v Pele debate out of the equation for simplicity)

2. The title of greatest of all time in any sport should be reserved for a player who is exceptionally gifted AND is able to use his gift to CONSISTENTLY raise the game of mere mortals -- not to mention men who are several notches above mere mortals -- around him to make a difference in many games but most importantly, in pivotal heavyweight matchups to deliver results and trophies. Examples of such heavyweight matchups at both club and country levels are Milan vs ManU 2005 and France v Brazil 2006.

If we agree with these basic premises, can anyone in football's Messianic Movement please give examples of games where Messi has come through in this regard for both club and country?

No mind small pikins dey talk. Messi has had three world cup chances to prove his "bestness" or "betterness" (let us not even talk about greatness) and he has flopped each time. How can you be the "best" and not deliver on the greatest stage of all when you get there? How can Germany always find it way too easy to shut you down? Puhleeze! How can you get to a World Cup final and not deliver something, anything? And your little fanboys continue to praise you? Abegi!

Let us put it this way, Messi is no Maradona, and Maradona is no Pele. All the arguments have been done and cooked. No need to pull them up again.

Can anybody here actually say Maradona is actually better than Messi as a player? Forget about achievements(And Messi has more BTW).

Think about them playing....at what exactly is Maradona better than Messi on a football pitch? Is it creating goals? Is it scoring them? Was Maradona the better dribbler? Did he have a better right foot? Was he a better header of the ball? Did he have better vision? Was he more lethal at free kicks? Did he give more wow moments?

Messi is the greatest all round attacker this game has ever seen, end of! He is a playmaker, winger and striker rolled into one....Maradona was on the Ronaldinho level extremely skilled at one or two things at best, it so happens Argentina won a World cup in his era, does not mean he had more than a player who is simply more talented and a lot more professional than he ever was.

Skylolo wrote:Can anybody here actually say Maradona is actually better than Messi as a player? Forget about achievements(And Messi has more BTW).

Think about them playing....at what exactly is Maradona better than Messi on a football pitch? Is it creating goals? Is it scoring them? Was Maradona the better dribbler? Did he have a better right foot? Was he a better header of the ball? Did he have better vision? Was he more lethal at free kicks? Did he give more wow moments?

Messi is the greatest all round attacker this game has ever seen, end of! He is a playmaker, winger and striker rolled into one....Maradona was on the Ronaldinho level extremely skilled at one or two things at best, it so happens Argentina won a World cup in his era, does not mean he had more than a player who is simply more talented and a lot more professional than he ever was.

Psst! It didn't so happen. There is a reason why the World Cup in 1986 was dubbed after the FACT as Maradona '86.

You can't win a world cup with good players around you but somehow you're the best? Ok oh.

theDunamis wrote:

Skylolo wrote:Can anybody here actually say Maradona is actually better than Messi as a player? Forget about achievements(And Messi has more BTW).

Think about them playing....at what exactly is Maradona better than Messi on a football pitch? Is it creating goals? Is it scoring them? Was Maradona the better dribbler? Did he have a better right foot? Was he a better header of the ball? Did he have better vision? Was he more lethal at free kicks? Did he give more wow moments?

Messi is the greatest all round attacker this game has ever seen, end of! He is a playmaker, winger and striker rolled into one....Maradona was on the Ronaldinho level extremely skilled at one or two things at best, it so happens Argentina won a World cup in his era, does not mean he had more than a player who is simply more talented and a lot more professional than he ever was.

Psst! It didn't so happen. There is a reason why the World Cup in 1986 was dubbed after the FACT as Maradona '86.

Thank you for highlighting that. No mind my brother Skylolo, na correct guy but sometimes em head no dey house

Diego will always be for me the Greatest of All Time

Let Messi go lead Real Sociedad to a La Liga title like Diego did the equivalent with Napoli when he went there, then we go talk

Messi is the best player to have played the game.

Al B Sure wrote:Messi is the best player to have played the game.

WC2006: Serbia & Montenegro

WC2010: N/A

WC2014: Bosnia Herz, Iran, Nigeria (2)

Skylolo wrote:Can anybody here actually say Maradona is actually better than Messi as a player? Forget about achievements(And Messi has more BTW).

Think about them playing....at what exactly is Maradona better than Messi on a football pitch? Is it creating goals? Is it scoring them? Was Maradona the better dribbler? Did he have a better right foot? Was he a better header of the ball? Did he have better vision? Was he more lethal at free kicks? Did he give more wow moments?

Messi is the greatest all round attacker this game has ever seen, end of! He is a playmaker, winger and striker rolled into one....Maradona was on the Ronaldinho level extremely skilled at one or two things at best, it so happens Argentina won a World cup in his era, does not mean he had more than a player who is simply more talented and a lot more professional than he ever was.

I think Diego had more natural ability and had more gra-gra to his game. This gave him the edge in terms of being able carry teams almost single-handedly and the sheer bloody-mindedness to change games even when your tricks were not coming off.

Diego definitely had better technique, better dribbler, etc. Messi is quicker. Messi also seems to be the better finisher - possibly b/c he is playing closer to goal.

I think Messi can seem to come off worse in these types of comparisons b/c TV coverage now means we see all his games, including the off days.

theDunamis wrote:

Skylolo wrote:Can anybody here actually say Maradona is actually better than Messi as a player? Forget about achievements(And Messi has more BTW).

Think about them playing....at what exactly is Maradona better than Messi on a football pitch? Is it creating goals? Is it scoring them? Was Maradona the better dribbler? Did he have a better right foot? Was he a better header of the ball? Did he have better vision? Was he more lethal at free kicks? Did he give more wow moments?

Messi is the greatest all round attacker this game has ever seen, end of! He is a playmaker, winger and striker rolled into one....Maradona was on the Ronaldinho level extremely skilled at one or two things at best, it so happens Argentina won a World cup in his era, does not mean he had more than a player who is simply more talented and a lot more professional than he ever was.

Psst! It didn't so happen. There is a reason why the World Cup in 1986 was dubbed after the FACT as Maradona '86.

I think Skylolo head no dey house..

anikulapo wrote: Thank you for highlighting that. No mind my brother Skylolo, na correct guy but sometimes em head no dey house

Diego will always be for me the Greatest of All Time

Let Messi go lead Real Sociedad to a La Liga title like Diego did the equivalent with Napoli when he went there, then we go talk

That is not what makes Maradona "greater" than Messi. Maradona had Careca and Giordano at Napoli, just like Messi has dangerous forwards and midfielders around him at Barca.

As I said before, the argument of "better" is pointless and can never be resolved. We cannot know who is "better" because they played in different eras against different oppositions. But we can know "greatness" by looking at who accomplished more given the obstacles before him.

I am surprised that fanboys are still touting Messi as the GOAT after he appeared in a World Cup Final, and delivered nada, not even a goal. Perhaps Messi is the greatest club player of our era. Right now, that's the best we can say.

theDunamis wrote:

Skylolo wrote:Can anybody here actually say Maradona is actually better than Messi as a player? Forget about achievements(And Messi has more BTW).

Think about them playing....at what exactly is Maradona better than Messi on a football pitch? Is it creating goals? Is it scoring them? Was Maradona the better dribbler? Did he have a better right foot? Was he a better header of the ball? Did he have better vision? Was he more lethal at free kicks? Did he give more wow moments?

Messi is the greatest all round attacker this game has ever seen, end of! He is a playmaker, winger and striker rolled into one....Maradona was on the Ronaldinho level extremely skilled at one or two things at best, it so happens Argentina won a World cup in his era, does not mean he had more than a player who is simply more talented and a lot more professional than he ever was.

Psst! It didn't so happen. There is a reason why the World Cup in 1986 was dubbed after the FACT as Maradona '86.

We will soon banish skylolo from Arsenal. Soon he will be saying Ozil is better than Bergkamp.

Skylolo wrote: Messi is the greatest all round attacker this game has ever seen, end of!

Chei! Small pikinism no good. Bros, one day, visit my house, I have video to show you. Let me repeat, there is nothing Messi can do that Pele could not do in his prime, and much more Pele could do that Messi could not do.

He is a playmaker, winger and striker rolled into one....

You must be talking about O Rei. So why do you think Messi is the greatest all round attacker when Messi has not accomplished half of what The King has accomplished?

Messi better than Maradona?smh,The question is what is he better at?
Messi play in a loaded team like Barca that form the Spain national team with talent that make Spain to look like the best national team in football history.
Maradona is 5 step ahead of Messi,let Messi leave Inniesta,Xavi, and the Barca co and pick a team Malaga and take them to high heaven befor we talk.
Maradona do it for club and country.Messi is playing with KUN,Di marie and could not lead Argentina to any victory in the national team.Just this world cup as soon as Di Marie was injured,Messi go silent all competition and miss a sitter at the final.
Messi at 3 world first two never even score a goal if am not wrong.Messi is lucky to play in this Barca generation of talent.
Maradona is the best player to ever enter football pitch.

Messi is close to Maradona and will surpass him soon for the simple reason that he will have longer longevity that Diego who only got 6 or 7 yrs of top class football from 84 to 91 when he was busted for cocaine.

By 1990, he certainly was not the player he was at his prime. Messi is still about 28 and has more years of top class performance to go by the looks of it

Coach wrote:Messi has had the misfortune of being managed at national level by two men who, rather than address the glaringly obvious, dressed it in a fluorescent leotard and sang Bambaleo.

Coachito, sharrap dia bifor I waya you betta dorty slap! Whish kine "greatest player" be dis whose fans always blame the coaches when he fails to deliver outside of Barcelona FC? Could it be that Messi is only Messi when he is surrounded by Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar, Suarez and odda etcheteram great players? To what extent are these other greats contributing to Messi's "greatness" by drawing defenders away from Messi? Just a thought.

Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:

theDunamis wrote:

Skylolo wrote:Can anybody here actually say Maradona is actually better than Messi as a player? Forget about achievements(And Messi has more BTW).

Think about them playing....at what exactly is Maradona better than Messi on a football pitch? Is it creating goals? Is it scoring them? Was Maradona the better dribbler? Did he have a better right foot? Was he a better header of the ball? Did he have better vision? Was he more lethal at free kicks? Did he give more wow moments?

Messi is the greatest all round attacker this game has ever seen, end of! He is a playmaker, winger and striker rolled into one....Maradona was on the Ronaldinho level extremely skilled at one or two things at best, it so happens Argentina won a World cup in his era, does not mean he had more than a player who is simply more talented and a lot more professional than he ever was.

Psst! It didn't so happen. There is a reason why the World Cup in 1986 was dubbed after the FACT as Maradona '86.

We will soon banish skylolo from Arsenal. Soon he will be saying Ozil is better than Bergkamp.

E don already dey talk say na our best ever signign sef.lol

Harder to win the World Cup now than then.

I know the argument is Messi v Don Diego but I feel cheated that injuries ruined this man. For me, he had everything necessary to be the greatest ever.

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