Cybereagles

The Undisputed Number One Home for All Super Eagles Fans
It is currently Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:07 pm

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 150 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 1:09 pm
Posts: 20510
Location: NORTH AMERICA
Useless thread started by the gbegiri tainted-brain Kogi. If this was being debated by Caucasians, we would have been here screaming racism.
Next time someone referred to your children born in America and Europe as " Africans", smile and give them a path on the back!

_________________
I keep paraphrasing David Frum in Trumpocracy: if conservatives can't win elections democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:29 am
Posts: 4114
aykwes8 wrote:
asabe wrote:
aykwes8 wrote:
too many Africans going to Europe or France for that matter


Where u at?

I'm not the one complaining that Europe is "stealing" African players. If we keep running away from home nobody has the right to complain. stay home and have your children at home if you don't like seeing black faces on European teams



got it..had missed the context.

_________________
“love the life you live. live the life you love.” Bob Marley


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:07 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 4:58 pm
Posts: 76399
Location: Earth
Daft thread

_________________
SuperEagles

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:17 pm
Posts: 7612
I know this discussion cannot happen without the political angle to it.
In 1998, the French team adopted the Black-Blanc-Beur mantra.Zidane, who led France ... was a Beur.
This team was profoundly criticized by then Jean Marie LePen. LePen was Trump in France ...
Now, the world is in the middle of attempts by Whites to "reclaim their countries". Thanks to Trump/Bannon via Vladimir Putin.
Who do you think Putin/Trump would be supporting?
A team made of children of Immigrants (who knows how some of them got to France !!!) or a team full of Whites (not their fault of course)?
And the game is being played in Russia !!!
Call me conspiracy theorist ... but shades of Jesse Owens ...Will Moscow be the new Berlin (1936)?
After Jesse Owen won his medals, he returned to an America that didn't really want people who looked like him ...
Well, at least Macron is President. Would have been weird if ... LePen (who Macron defeated) became President of France...
Vladimir tried very hard to get Marie LePen elected in France against Macron. And we all know ... who Trump/Bannon support !!!
History has a way to ... announce itself.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:51 am
Posts: 14410
To think, if Sidibe and Mendy were fit then France would have seven or eight black players lining up for them - the exceptions being Lloris, Griezmann, Varane (and Giroud).

_________________

WC go sweet o
DNQ no good o

-
Cellular quotes
"Thank God na oyibo be coach." - Nov 16, 2017
"The Yeyeman is hardly ever vulgar when dealing with anyone. " - Mar 23, 2018
"I will take Trump over Clinton but I am in the minority." - Jul 19, 2016
-
© The YeyeMan 2018
This post is provided AS IS with no warranties and confers no rights.
It is not authorised by CyberEagles. You assume all risk for your use. All rights reserved.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:22 pm
Posts: 11772
Quote:
Opinion World Cup 2018
French system shapes success of Les Bleus’ African talent
Sons of immigrants in national team are products of France — in ways good and bad


Simon Kuper in Moscow JULY 13, 2018 Print this page20
In daily life, I’m a football dad living in Paris. Most weekends, I get up early and trek with my children to some freezing sports complex in the banlieues, the city’s suburbs. 

The venue — which might be the Stade Karl Marx, in formerly communist-voting Villejuif — is typically fringed by dreary apartment blocks. Both our team and the opposition are almost always a mix of black, white and brown kids. The coaches, “éducateurs” who have followed courses and take themselves seriously, command from the touchline, while parents are corralled behind a fence and encouraged to keep quiet. But we do get to watch some excellent children’s football.

Half the French players likely to feature in Sunday’s World Cup final  against Croatia come from poor banlieues of Paris or Lyon. Kylian Mbappé and the entire starting midfield of Paul Pogba, N’Golo Kanté and Blaise Matuidi are Parisians. Samuel Umtiti and frequent substitutes Nabil Fekir and Corentin Tolisso are from the Lyon region. 

There are some exceptions: keeper Hugo Lloris grew up in Nice, the son of a Catalan banker dad and a lawyer mum who wanted him to play tennis. But mostly, this World Cup confirms that Greater Paris in particular is global football’s best talent pool.

That applies beyond Les Bleus. Of 15 Paris-born players at the World Cup, only seven are in France’s squad, notes sports sociologist Darko Dukic. The others played for Senegal, Morocco, Tunisia and Portugal, home countries of their immigrant parents. 

Dukic notes that the past five World Cups have featured 60 Paris-born participants
; Buenos Aires, in second place, had 50. Then there are Parisians who weren’t even at this year’s tournament: Algeria’s Riyad Mahrez, from the banlieue Sarcelles, just joined Manchester City from Leicester for £60m.


N'Golo Kanté, Kylian Mbappé and Paul Pogba: all were raised by immigrant parents in the banlieus of Paris © Reuters
Some say these players aren’t French but African. The assertion is made both by some Africans, eager to claim these talents for their continent, and by French ethno-nationalists such as Jean-Marie Le Pen. 

When Le Pen once complained about black players, France’s black longtime full-back Lilian Thuram retorted: “Personally, I don’t know what he’s talking about. I’m not black, I’m French.” 

Yet French sons of African immigrants are better footballers than any raised in Africa. That is because they are products of France — in ways good and bad.

There is only football. Whether at school or in the neighbourhood, everyone will play football. And that helps people to not stay in the quartier doing nothing, or doing stupid things


Most French banlieues, though not the hellholes of foreign imagination, are pretty drab. Mbappé’s hometown of Bondy, a bus ride from rich Paris, looks as if someone plonked a Soviet town on top of an ancient French village. The old church survives but Bondy is dominated by fast-food joints and fading 1960s apartment blocks (one of them adorned with a large mural of Mbappé). 

Local kids generally have few choices of entertainment. In banlieues, Pogba told me, “there is only football. Whether at school or in the neighbourhood, everyone will play football. And that helps people to not stay in the quartier doing nothing, or doing stupid things.” 

Their parents, seeing few other routes for advancement, dream of their sons becoming professional footballers. Pogba’s father, a Guinean immigrant, pumped up footballs as hard as rocks because he thought it would improve his sons’ shooting. All three became pros. 

[The French system then refines all this talent. Every banlieue has state-subsidised sports clubs with qualified coaches. The focus is more on producing good footballers than on winning youth matches. At AS Bondy, where his father was the youth coach, Mbappé usually played with kids two years older than him, whereas if the club had kept him in his own age group they could have won more titles.

The best kids are sent to France’s central academy, Clairefontaine, and scouted by clubs from around Europe, whose representatives roam Parisian fields every weekend. (Manchester United spotted the adolescent Mbappé, but the club’s then manager Louis van Gaal refused to sign him.) The set-up is similar in Brussels, hometown of several of the Belgians beaten by Les Bleus in the semi-final. 

If France win the World Cup, it will be a triumph not for Africa but for the French system. 


Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
https://www.ft.com/content/489c65e0-85e ... 565ec55929



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:55 am
Posts: 29388
Location: Canada
The YeyeMan wrote:
To think, if Sidibe and Mendy were fit then France would have seven or eight black players lining up for them - the exceptions being Lloris, Griezmann, Varane (and Giroud).

Chief, Varane na black man o, dad from Martinique like Thierry! See him papa:
Image
Raphael in braids:
Image

_________________
Image
Visit my blog at http://www.soccergoat.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:51 am
Posts: 14410
OK we take Varane. :thumbs:

_________________

WC go sweet o
DNQ no good o

-
Cellular quotes
"Thank God na oyibo be coach." - Nov 16, 2017
"The Yeyeman is hardly ever vulgar when dealing with anyone. " - Mar 23, 2018
"I will take Trump over Clinton but I am in the minority." - Jul 19, 2016
-
© The YeyeMan 2018
This post is provided AS IS with no warranties and confers no rights.
It is not authorised by CyberEagles. You assume all risk for your use. All rights reserved.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:55 am
Posts: 29388
Location: Canada
realtrouble wrote:
Quote:
Opinion World Cup 2018
French system shapes success of Les Bleus’ African talent
Sons of immigrants in national team are products of France — in ways good and bad


Simon Kuper in Moscow JULY 13, 2018 Print this page20
In daily life, I’m a football dad living in Paris. Most weekends, I get up early and trek with my children to some freezing sports complex in the banlieues, the city’s suburbs. 

The venue — which might be the Stade Karl Marx, in formerly communist-voting Villejuif — is typically fringed by dreary apartment blocks. Both our team and the opposition are almost always a mix of black, white and brown kids. The coaches, “éducateurs” who have followed courses and take themselves seriously, command from the touchline, while parents are corralled behind a fence and encouraged to keep quiet. But we do get to watch some excellent children’s football.

Half the French players likely to feature in Sunday’s World Cup final  against Croatia come from poor banlieues of Paris or Lyon. Kylian Mbappé and the entire starting midfield of Paul Pogba, N’Golo Kanté and Blaise Matuidi are Parisians. Samuel Umtiti and frequent substitutes Nabil Fekir and Corentin Tolisso are from the Lyon region. 

There are some exceptions: keeper Hugo Lloris grew up in Nice, the son of a Catalan banker dad and a lawyer mum who wanted him to play tennis. But mostly, this World Cup confirms that Greater Paris in particular is global football’s best talent pool.

That applies beyond Les Bleus. Of 15 Paris-born players at the World Cup, only seven are in France’s squad, notes sports sociologist Darko Dukic. The others played for Senegal, Morocco, Tunisia and Portugal, home countries of their immigrant parents. 

Dukic notes that the past five World Cups have featured 60 Paris-born participants
; Buenos Aires, in second place, had 50. Then there are Parisians who weren’t even at this year’s tournament: Algeria’s Riyad Mahrez, from the banlieue Sarcelles, just joined Manchester City from Leicester for £60m.


N'Golo Kanté, Kylian Mbappé and Paul Pogba: all were raised by immigrant parents in the banlieus of Paris © Reuters
Some say these players aren’t French but African. The assertion is made both by some Africans, eager to claim these talents for their continent, and by French ethno-nationalists such as Jean-Marie Le Pen. 

When Le Pen once complained about black players, France’s black longtime full-back Lilian Thuram retorted: “Personally, I don’t know what he’s talking about. I’m not black, I’m French.” 

Yet French sons of African immigrants are better footballers than any raised in Africa. That is because they are products of France — in ways good and bad.

There is only football. Whether at school or in the neighbourhood, everyone will play football. And that helps people to not stay in the quartier doing nothing, or doing stupid things


Most French banlieues, though not the hellholes of foreign imagination, are pretty drab. Mbappé’s hometown of Bondy, a bus ride from rich Paris, looks as if someone plonked a Soviet town on top of an ancient French village. The old church survives but Bondy is dominated by fast-food joints and fading 1960s apartment blocks (one of them adorned with a large mural of Mbappé). 

Local kids generally have few choices of entertainment. In banlieues, Pogba told me, “there is only football. Whether at school or in the neighbourhood, everyone will play football. And that helps people to not stay in the quartier doing nothing, or doing stupid things.” 

Their parents, seeing few other routes for advancement, dream of their sons becoming professional footballers. Pogba’s father, a Guinean immigrant, pumped up footballs as hard as rocks because he thought it would improve his sons’ shooting. All three became pros. 

[The French system then refines all this talent. Every banlieue has state-subsidised sports clubs with qualified coaches. The focus is more on producing good footballers than on winning youth matches. At AS Bondy, where his father was the youth coach, Mbappé usually played with kids two years older than him, whereas if the club had kept him in his own age group they could have won more titles.

The best kids are sent to France’s central academy, Clairefontaine, and scouted by clubs from around Europe, whose representatives roam Parisian fields every weekend. (Manchester United spotted the adolescent Mbappé, but the club’s then manager Louis van Gaal refused to sign him.) The set-up is similar in Brussels, hometown of several of the Belgians beaten by Les Bleus in the semi-final. 

If France win the World Cup, it will be a triumph not for Africa but for the French system. 


Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
https://www.ft.com/content/489c65e0-85e ... 565ec55929


Biko, help me to told dem. :thumb:

_________________
Image
Visit my blog at http://www.soccergoat.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:45 pm
Posts: 31058
Location: Your worst Nightmare
Thing that stumps me is that the Africans complaining are the ones abroad too. That might, if they're lucky, have children who might have to make the same decision whom to represent in a decade or two too.

Also funny is that some of these same guys have objected to Nigerians born abroad playing for the SE. So they play for their birth country, na wahala, they play for their Papa/Mama country, na wahala.

_________________
Nigerian T-shirts online!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:45 pm
Posts: 31058
Location: Your worst Nightmare
Tbite wrote:
The one I am uneasy about is Belgium.

Belgium committed one of the worst atrocities in human history, and there has been very little acknowledgment of this.

Players like Lukaku, Batshuayi and Kompany are the descendants of people that were ravaged by Belgium in the worst possible manner, and yet the recent administrations have done little to reconcile this problem.

I can understand playing for the country you know, I have said it here more than most, but there is something very dark about playing for them. Each to their own, but if I were born in Belgium as a Congolese, I would not play for them.

Imagine a Jew playing for Germany, if there had been little acknowledgement of the holocaust! The genocide in Congo should be as publicized and acknowledged as the holocaust.


Bro,

You object to British Naija playing for SE, you object to Congoloese Belgians playing for Belgium...which one you dey na? Make dem kuku no play at all? Meanwhile you yourself dey Australia...a country wey dey pack refugees and immigrants in Island prisons. Na wa for you. :roll: :roll:

_________________
Nigerian T-shirts online!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 7:48 pm
Posts: 21698
ohsee wrote:
realtrouble wrote:
Quote:
Opinion World Cup 2018
French system shapes success of Les Bleus’ African talent
Sons of immigrants in national team are products of France — in ways good and bad


Simon Kuper in Moscow JULY 13, 2018 Print this page20
In daily life, I’m a football dad living in Paris. Most weekends, I get up early and trek with my children to some freezing sports complex in the banlieues, the city’s suburbs. 

The venue — which might be the Stade Karl Marx, in formerly communist-voting Villejuif — is typically fringed by dreary apartment blocks. Both our team and the opposition are almost always a mix of black, white and brown kids. The coaches, “éducateurs” who have followed courses and take themselves seriously, command from the touchline, while parents are corralled behind a fence and encouraged to keep quiet. But we do get to watch some excellent children’s football.

Half the French players likely to feature in Sunday’s World Cup final  against Croatia come from poor banlieues of Paris or Lyon. Kylian Mbappé and the entire starting midfield of Paul Pogba, N’Golo Kanté and Blaise Matuidi are Parisians. Samuel Umtiti and frequent substitutes Nabil Fekir and Corentin Tolisso are from the Lyon region. 

There are some exceptions: keeper Hugo Lloris grew up in Nice, the son of a Catalan banker dad and a lawyer mum who wanted him to play tennis. But mostly, this World Cup confirms that Greater Paris in particular is global football’s best talent pool.

That applies beyond Les Bleus. Of 15 Paris-born players at the World Cup, only seven are in France’s squad, notes sports sociologist Darko Dukic. The others played for Senegal, Morocco, Tunisia and Portugal, home countries of their immigrant parents. 

Dukic notes that the past five World Cups have featured 60 Paris-born participants
; Buenos Aires, in second place, had 50. Then there are Parisians who weren’t even at this year’s tournament: Algeria’s Riyad Mahrez, from the banlieue Sarcelles, just joined Manchester City from Leicester for £60m.


N'Golo Kanté, Kylian Mbappé and Paul Pogba: all were raised by immigrant parents in the banlieus of Paris © Reuters
Some say these players aren’t French but African. The assertion is made both by some Africans, eager to claim these talents for their continent, and by French ethno-nationalists such as Jean-Marie Le Pen. 

When Le Pen once complained about black players, France’s black longtime full-back Lilian Thuram retorted: “Personally, I don’t know what he’s talking about. I’m not black, I’m French.” 

Yet French sons of African immigrants are better footballers than any raised in Africa. That is because they are products of France — in ways good and bad.

There is only football. Whether at school or in the neighbourhood, everyone will play football. And that helps people to not stay in the quartier doing nothing, or doing stupid things


Most French banlieues, though not the hellholes of foreign imagination, are pretty drab. Mbappé’s hometown of Bondy, a bus ride from rich Paris, looks as if someone plonked a Soviet town on top of an ancient French village. The old church survives but Bondy is dominated by fast-food joints and fading 1960s apartment blocks (one of them adorned with a large mural of Mbappé). 

Local kids generally have few choices of entertainment. In banlieues, Pogba told me, “there is only football. Whether at school or in the neighbourhood, everyone will play football. And that helps people to not stay in the quartier doing nothing, or doing stupid things.” 

Their parents, seeing few other routes for advancement, dream of their sons becoming professional footballers. Pogba’s father, a Guinean immigrant, pumped up footballs as hard as rocks because he thought it would improve his sons’ shooting. All three became pros. 

[The French system then refines all this talent. Every banlieue has state-subsidised sports clubs with qualified coaches. The focus is more on producing good footballers than on winning youth matches. At AS Bondy, where his father was the youth coach, Mbappé usually played with kids two years older than him, whereas if the club had kept him in his own age group they could have won more titles.

The best kids are sent to France’s central academy, Clairefontaine, and scouted by clubs from around Europe, whose representatives roam Parisian fields every weekend. (Manchester United spotted the adolescent Mbappé, but the club’s then manager Louis van Gaal refused to sign him.) The set-up is similar in Brussels, hometown of several of the Belgians beaten by Les Bleus in the semi-final. 

If France win the World Cup, it will be a triumph not for Africa but for the French system. 


Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
https://www.ft.com/content/489c65e0-85e ... 565ec55929


Biko, help me to told dem. :thumb:

it will be a triumph to Africa too. Our sons won it !!

_________________
http://www.melangeGO.com/
A family oriented online fashion store. Offering high quality products at low cost.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:51 am
Posts: 26759
Location: Southern Hemisphere
airwolex wrote:
Tbite wrote:
The one I am uneasy about is Belgium.

Belgium committed one of the worst atrocities in human history, and there has been very little acknowledgment of this.

Players like Lukaku, Batshuayi and Kompany are the descendants of people that were ravaged by Belgium in the worst possible manner, and yet the recent administrations have done little to reconcile this problem.

I can understand playing for the country you know, I have said it here more than most, but there is something very dark about playing for them. Each to their own, but if I were born in Belgium as a Congolese, I would not play for them.

Imagine a Jew playing for Germany, if there had been little acknowledgement of the holocaust! The genocide in Congo should be as publicized and acknowledged as the holocaust.


Bro,

You object to British Naija playing for SE, you object to Congoloese Belgians playing for Belgium...which one you dey na? Make dem kuku no play at all? Meanwhile you yourself dey Australia...a country wey dey pack refugees and immigrants in Island prisons. Na wa for you. :roll: :roll:


Don't put words into my mouth.

I never objected to British Nigerians playing for Nigeria. I objected to Nigeria over-relying on players that we did not develop in any capacity. Something that no top footballing country does.

Also I never objected to Africans with European heritage playing for their countries (I actually encourage it).

What I simply mentioned was that Belgium committed one of the worst atrocities in Human history, yet they sweep it under the carpet like it never happened. There are not many parallels to that.

All of Australia's mistakes are well publicized. Regarding the detention centres in the pacific, that is a deterrence. It is a strategy being adopted globally by Canada, New Zealand. There will be particular dangers posed if a country simply legitimizes illegal migration. Especially when that illegal migration puts refugees themselves in harms way.

They are free to play for their country as I said. What I simply suggested was for them to lead the way, a political statement if you will. Belgium should be made to acknowledge what it did all those years. Australia has, even if insufficient.

_________________
Bixente Lizarazu once described Spain’s football - which won them two European titles and a World Cup - as “love without the sex. It lacks a bit of spice”. News.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:22 pm
Posts: 11772
mastermind wrote:
ohsee wrote:
realtrouble wrote:
Quote:
Opinion World Cup 2018
French system shapes success of Les Bleus’ African talent
Sons of immigrants in national team are products of France — in ways good and bad


Simon Kuper in Moscow JULY 13, 2018 Print this page20
In daily life, I’m a football dad living in Paris. Most weekends, I get up early and trek with my children to some freezing sports complex in the banlieues, the city’s suburbs. 

The venue — which might be the Stade Karl Marx, in formerly communist-voting Villejuif — is typically fringed by dreary apartment blocks. Both our team and the opposition are almost always a mix of black, white and brown kids. The coaches, “éducateurs” who have followed courses and take themselves seriously, command from the touchline, while parents are corralled behind a fence and encouraged to keep quiet. But we do get to watch some excellent children’s football.

Half the French players likely to feature in Sunday’s World Cup final  against Croatia come from poor banlieues of Paris or Lyon. Kylian Mbappé and the entire starting midfield of Paul Pogba, N’Golo Kanté and Blaise Matuidi are Parisians. Samuel Umtiti and frequent substitutes Nabil Fekir and Corentin Tolisso are from the Lyon region. 

There are some exceptions: keeper Hugo Lloris grew up in Nice, the son of a Catalan banker dad and a lawyer mum who wanted him to play tennis. But mostly, this World Cup confirms that Greater Paris in particular is global football’s best talent pool.

That applies beyond Les Bleus. Of 15 Paris-born players at the World Cup, only seven are in France’s squad, notes sports sociologist Darko Dukic. The others played for Senegal, Morocco, Tunisia and Portugal, home countries of their immigrant parents. 

Dukic notes that the past five World Cups have featured 60 Paris-born participants
; Buenos Aires, in second place, had 50. Then there are Parisians who weren’t even at this year’s tournament: Algeria’s Riyad Mahrez, from the banlieue Sarcelles, just joined Manchester City from Leicester for £60m.


N'Golo Kanté, Kylian Mbappé and Paul Pogba: all were raised by immigrant parents in the banlieus of Paris © Reuters
Some say these players aren’t French but African. The assertion is made both by some Africans, eager to claim these talents for their continent, and by French ethno-nationalists such as Jean-Marie Le Pen. 

When Le Pen once complained about black players, France’s black longtime full-back Lilian Thuram retorted: “Personally, I don’t know what he’s talking about. I’m not black, I’m French.” 

Yet French sons of African immigrants are better footballers than any raised in Africa. That is because they are products of France — in ways good and bad.

There is only football. Whether at school or in the neighbourhood, everyone will play football. And that helps people to not stay in the quartier doing nothing, or doing stupid things


Most French banlieues, though not the hellholes of foreign imagination, are pretty drab. Mbappé’s hometown of Bondy, a bus ride from rich Paris, looks as if someone plonked a Soviet town on top of an ancient French village. The old church survives but Bondy is dominated by fast-food joints and fading 1960s apartment blocks (one of them adorned with a large mural of Mbappé). 

Local kids generally have few choices of entertainment. In banlieues, Pogba told me, “there is only football. Whether at school or in the neighbourhood, everyone will play football. And that helps people to not stay in the quartier doing nothing, or doing stupid things.” 

Their parents, seeing few other routes for advancement, dream of their sons becoming professional footballers. Pogba’s father, a Guinean immigrant, pumped up footballs as hard as rocks because he thought it would improve his sons’ shooting. All three became pros. 

[The French system then refines all this talent. Every banlieue has state-subsidised sports clubs with qualified coaches. The focus is more on producing good footballers than on winning youth matches. At AS Bondy, where his father was the youth coach, Mbappé usually played with kids two years older than him, whereas if the club had kept him in his own age group they could have won more titles.

The best kids are sent to France’s central academy, Clairefontaine, and scouted by clubs from around Europe, whose representatives roam Parisian fields every weekend. (Manchester United spotted the adolescent Mbappé, but the club’s then manager Louis van Gaal refused to sign him.) The set-up is similar in Brussels, hometown of several of the Belgians beaten by Les Bleus in the semi-final. 

If France win the World Cup, it will be a triumph not for Africa but for the French system. 


Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
https://www.ft.com/content/489c65e0-85e ... 565ec55929


Biko, help me to told dem. :thumb:

it will be a triumph to Africa too. Our sons won it !!


Actually, it exposes Africa incompetence.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:09 pm
Posts: 29959
realtrouble wrote:
mastermind wrote:
ohsee wrote:
realtrouble wrote:
Quote:
Opinion World Cup 2018
French system shapes success of Les Bleus’ African talent
Sons of immigrants in national team are products of France — in ways good and bad


Simon Kuper in Moscow JULY 13, 2018 Print this page20
In daily life, I’m a football dad living in Paris. Most weekends, I get up early and trek with my children to some freezing sports complex in the banlieues, the city’s suburbs. 

The venue — which might be the Stade Karl Marx, in formerly communist-voting Villejuif — is typically fringed by dreary apartment blocks. Both our team and the opposition are almost always a mix of black, white and brown kids. The coaches, “éducateurs” who have followed courses and take themselves seriously, command from the touchline, while parents are corralled behind a fence and encouraged to keep quiet. But we do get to watch some excellent children’s football.

Half the French players likely to feature in Sunday’s World Cup final  against Croatia come from poor banlieues of Paris or Lyon. Kylian Mbappé and the entire starting midfield of Paul Pogba, N’Golo Kanté and Blaise Matuidi are Parisians. Samuel Umtiti and frequent substitutes Nabil Fekir and Corentin Tolisso are from the Lyon region. 

There are some exceptions: keeper Hugo Lloris grew up in Nice, the son of a Catalan banker dad and a lawyer mum who wanted him to play tennis. But mostly, this World Cup confirms that Greater Paris in particular is global football’s best talent pool.

That applies beyond Les Bleus. Of 15 Paris-born players at the World Cup, only seven are in France’s squad, notes sports sociologist Darko Dukic. The others played for Senegal, Morocco, Tunisia and Portugal, home countries of their immigrant parents. 

Dukic notes that the past five World Cups have featured 60 Paris-born participants
; Buenos Aires, in second place, had 50. Then there are Parisians who weren’t even at this year’s tournament: Algeria’s Riyad Mahrez, from the banlieue Sarcelles, just joined Manchester City from Leicester for £60m.


N'Golo Kanté, Kylian Mbappé and Paul Pogba: all were raised by immigrant parents in the banlieus of Paris © Reuters
Some say these players aren’t French but African. The assertion is made both by some Africans, eager to claim these talents for their continent, and by French ethno-nationalists such as Jean-Marie Le Pen. 

When Le Pen once complained about black players, France’s black longtime full-back Lilian Thuram retorted: “Personally, I don’t know what he’s talking about. I’m not black, I’m French.” 

Yet French sons of African immigrants are better footballers than any raised in Africa. That is because they are products of France — in ways good and bad.

There is only football. Whether at school or in the neighbourhood, everyone will play football. And that helps people to not stay in the quartier doing nothing, or doing stupid things


Most French banlieues, though not the hellholes of foreign imagination, are pretty drab. Mbappé’s hometown of Bondy, a bus ride from rich Paris, looks as if someone plonked a Soviet town on top of an ancient French village. The old church survives but Bondy is dominated by fast-food joints and fading 1960s apartment blocks (one of them adorned with a large mural of Mbappé). 

Local kids generally have few choices of entertainment. In banlieues, Pogba told me, “there is only football. Whether at school or in the neighbourhood, everyone will play football. And that helps people to not stay in the quartier doing nothing, or doing stupid things.” 

Their parents, seeing few other routes for advancement, dream of their sons becoming professional footballers. Pogba’s father, a Guinean immigrant, pumped up footballs as hard as rocks because he thought it would improve his sons’ shooting. All three became pros. 

[The French system then refines all this talent. Every banlieue has state-subsidised sports clubs with qualified coaches. The focus is more on producing good footballers than on winning youth matches. At AS Bondy, where his father was the youth coach, Mbappé usually played with kids two years older than him, whereas if the club had kept him in his own age group they could have won more titles.

The best kids are sent to France’s central academy, Clairefontaine, and scouted by clubs from around Europe, whose representatives roam Parisian fields every weekend. (Manchester United spotted the adolescent Mbappé, but the club’s then manager Louis van Gaal refused to sign him.) The set-up is similar in Brussels, hometown of several of the Belgians beaten by Les Bleus in the semi-final. 

If France win the World Cup, it will be a triumph not for Africa but for the French system. 


Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
https://www.ft.com/content/489c65e0-85e ... 565ec55929


Biko, help me to told dem. :thumb:

it will be a triumph to Africa too. Our sons won it !!


Actually, it exposes Africa incompetence.

We are all aware of the poor quality of our education system. My hope is that the success of black in France/Europe is not only seen in sports but in all spheres of society.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:45 pm
Posts: 31058
Location: Your worst Nightmare
Quote:
All of Australia's mistakes are well publicized. Regarding the detention centres in the pacific, that is a deterrence. It is a strategy being adopted globally by Canada, New Zealand. There will be particular dangers posed if a country simply legitimizes illegal migration. Especially when that illegal migration puts refugees themselves in harms way.


No they are not. Australia is getting away with murder.

I have no wish to go into Australian atrocities, past and present, but suffice it to say, they are innumerable.

Who gives you or Kongi the right to determine what's over-reliance? Are you okay with three Nigerian born players or five? Would you be comfortable with two French born Africans or three? This are ridiculous assertions. If there are 11 Africans/Arabs good enough to start for France then they should. The Congolese in Belgium should play for Belgium if they like.

There are many Jews contributing to the science and arts in Poland and Germany, should they all refuse to participate in society because of the second world war?

Like I said, it seems to be you guys that are in foreign countries that dwell on issues like this. You almost sound like you wouldn't be out of place in the far right fringes over there.

_________________
Nigerian T-shirts online!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:09 pm
Posts: 29959
airwolex wrote:
Quote:
All of Australia's mistakes are well publicized. Regarding the detention centres in the pacific, that is a deterrence. It is a strategy being adopted globally by Canada, New Zealand. There will be particular dangers posed if a country simply legitimizes illegal migration. Especially when that illegal migration puts refugees themselves in harms way.


No they are not. Australia is getting away with murder.

I have no wish to go into Australian atrocities, past and present, but suffice it to say, they are innumerable.

Who gives you or Kongi the right to determine what's over-reliance? Are you okay with three Nigerian born players or five? Would you be comfortable with two French born Africans or three? This are ridiculous assertions. If there are 11 Africans/Arabs good enough to start for France then they should. The Congolese in Belgium should play for Belgium if they like.

There are many Jews contributing to the science and arts in Poland and Germany, should they all refuse to participate in society because of the second world war?

Like I said, it seems to be you guys that are in foreign countries that dwell on issues like this. You almost sound like you wouldn't be out of place in the far right fringes over there.

I concur. Me I would like to see this trend extended to other spheres of society. Like the next european Nobel prize to be to someone from with an african background. Or some of the richest men in Europe be someone with an african background. In France there is an morrocan born Patrick Drahi, who is one of then richest men in France. However he is also jewish and has a israeli citizenship. Not your typical african background.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:01 pm
Posts: 7485
A couple of related questions, first, why has France struggled less with including more than a couple of Blacks in Les Bleus than England? As a little boy, I read about Laurie Cunningham, Garth Crooks and Viv Anderson in SHOOT football magazine, and later watched John Barnes and Des Walker on television.

I still dislike Terry Venables for completely ignoring Andy Cole, who for me was just as good, If not better than Alan Shearer. BTW, the U.S. national team would benefit immensely from encouraging the children of minorities to participate in football, instead of trying too hard to make it look like La Crosse.

The other question is, how does the average non-minority French person feel about Les Bleu being over 90% Black? How would you feel If the Super Eagles were comprised mostly of whites, or let's make it more comfortable for you, mixed-race Nigerians? Heck, even educated and so-called enlightened folks on this site and elsewhere have complained about too few Yorubas or too many Igbos on the Super Eagles.

_________________
-Simpli fy -


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:51 am
Posts: 26759
Location: Southern Hemisphere
airwolex wrote:
Quote:
All of Australia's mistakes are well publicized. Regarding the detention centres in the pacific, that is a deterrence. It is a strategy being adopted globally by Canada, New Zealand. There will be particular dangers posed if a country simply legitimizes illegal migration. Especially when that illegal migration puts refugees themselves in harms way.


No they are not. Australia is getting away with murder.

I have no wish to go into Australian atrocities, past and present, but suffice it to say, they are innumerable.

Who gives you or Kongi the right to determine what's over-reliance? Are you okay with three Nigerian born players or five? Would you be comfortable with two French born Africans or three? This are ridiculous assertions. If there are 11 Africans/Arabs good enough to start for France then they should. The Congolese in Belgium should play for Belgium if they like.

There are many Jews contributing to the science and arts in Poland and Germany, should they all refuse to participate in society because of the second world war?

Like I said, it seems to be you guys that are in foreign countries that dwell on issues like this. You almost sound like you wouldn't be out of place in the far right fringes over there.


The issue has nothing to do with place of birth, but for some foolish reason you lot would like to make it appear that way.

It has nothing to do with race or upbringing or nationality.

I am saying Nigeria as a footballing nation should be nurturing football talent, not leaving it to U15 and U17 youth teams of other countries.

If Nigeria was so capable, then we should be able to snap up at least some of these talents into our own youth teams! The reality is, this has nothing to do with representation, fairness or whatever else you have in your mind.

This boils down to one simple thing, Nigeria is dropping the ball in organization and talent production, and no serious European talent would play for our youth teams, they will play for better youth teams in Europe, and only if they feel that they do not have a better shot in Europe Full NTs, will they then play for Nigeria.

So what in this whole scenario shows that I am wrong and what in this whole scenario points towards fascism?

If we have a Nigerian team composed of 11 players that are U17 and U21 from Europe, that on one hand shows 11 players representing their country (great), but it also shows that Nigeria cannot produce youth talent AND cannot attract youth talent! These arguments would be more compelling if we were going after these players before they were ready-made! We are not looking for players to do their country proud, don't try to mask your real ambitions. You are looking for fringe players of better national sides that are ready made!

_________________
Bixente Lizarazu once described Spain’s football - which won them two European titles and a World Cup - as “love without the sex. It lacks a bit of spice”. News.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:51 am
Posts: 26759
Location: Southern Hemisphere
airwolex wrote:
Quote:
All of Australia's mistakes are well publicized. Regarding the detention centres in the pacific, that is a deterrence. It is a strategy being adopted globally by Canada, New Zealand. There will be particular dangers posed if a country simply legitimizes illegal migration. Especially when that illegal migration puts refugees themselves in harms way.


No they are not. Australia is getting away with murder.

I have no wish to go into Australian atrocities, past and present, but suffice it to say, they are innumerable.

Who gives you or Kongi the right to determine what's over-reliance? Are you okay with three Nigerian born players or five? Would you be comfortable with two French born Africans or three? This are ridiculous assertions. If there are 11 Africans/Arabs good enough to start for France then they should. The Congolese in Belgium should play for Belgium if they like.

There are many Jews contributing to the science and arts in Poland and Germany, should they all refuse to participate in society because of the second world war?

Like I said, it seems to be you guys that are in foreign countries that dwell on issues like this. You almost sound like you wouldn't be out of place in the far right fringes over there.


You seem to cherish twisting facts and putting words into people's mouths to make your arguments.

The Holocaust is one of the must publicized and indemnified incidents in human history! The Belgian incident is not!

I see no reason why such a clear fact would be ignored to go on some wild goose chase about other such incidents, which BTW would only strengthen the case not weaken it.

I am not Belgian or Congolese, hence my comments were hypothetical. To each their own, but OBVIOUSLY my suggestion would yield positive responses a and would go a long way to helping the situation, your suggestions would solve NOTHING.

_________________
Bixente Lizarazu once described Spain’s football - which won them two European titles and a World Cup - as “love without the sex. It lacks a bit of spice”. News.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:40 am
Posts: 927

You are either a citizen of France, or you are not, regardless of color.
You are also either the best qualified and skilled to play for France, or you are not.
The numbers are irrelevant as long as you are producing. After winning I don't think the number of Africans on the team is what most French citizens are thinking about now.

The French understand that even if they took qualified blind dogs to the WC, winning is ALL that matters.
What is the benefit of having an all-pasty white team even if their colored citizen counterparts are the best qualified to bring the Cup home?

France won. It is a big win against racists across the world who typically blame their team's poor performance on selection of colored people.
How do you think Marie LePen truly feels tonight?

On a holistic scale, it proves that blacks when given the same level of training, prep, and coaching can perform just as well if not better than anyone else. The win is an inspiration to young black kids that they, too, can achieve at the highest levels like Pogba, if they work hard.The French, Brazilians, and Germans have all proven this as a fact by winning the Cup with diverse competent groups of players.

It also proves that Africans can do far better. We need to invest in the relevant infrastructure NOW, not 2 years before the next WC.

_________________
Whatever you are chasing is also chasing you!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:44 am
Posts: 1186
The actual question nobody has bothered to ask or ponder upon is why French African players born home or abroad always turn out to be world class in the long run, while the English speaking African kids either end up as below average or decent at best? case in point the only decent English born Nigerian player we've seen so far is Dele Alli... Ghana has Welbeck. Meanwhile countries like DRC, Ivory Coast, Guinea, Cameroon etc always export their best talents to their former colonial territories like Belgium and France...makes you wonder why Anglophone African exports aren't as good as their Francophone counterparts.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:18 pm
Posts: 840
Another explanation:
https://youtu.be/P55XYp2KD2Y

_________________
"If you aren't keeping the score
you're only practising". Hugh Collum, Finance Director, SmithKline Beecham.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 150 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 2think, Bigpokey24, bret- hart, Chriskendo43, EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA, Google [Bot], john12, maceo4, mapet, metalalloy and 34 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group