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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:47 pm 
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The man has proved he is not a fluke coach. Now on to the Champs League Final. I fear Juve will win--they have the more complete team--but I am sacrificing goats and chickens as fast as I can for Zidane and Real. In any case, whatever happens, he won the Champs League, won La Liga, and has taken Real to the final. The only problem with Real is that they defend like Nigeria--they like to dash people chances to score :lol: . If not for Keylor Navas they might have lost today, they gave Malaga so many free chances.

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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:07 pm 
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:clap: :clap:
I like the guy and wish him more success

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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Hoping Juve wins. For Buffon.

And because I cannot stand Real.

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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:28 pm 
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I would love for Juve to win, but Real just have too much firepower. CRon will personally destroy Juve. That man is the soccer version of the Terminator. He does not feel pain, or pity, or remorse and he will not stop until he has scored, again and again.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:09 am 
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ohsee wrote:
The man has proved he is not a fluke coach. .


i thought winning the CL last season was a fluke, sort of like Tyronne Lue with the Cavs

Is he a good coach, or are the players making him look good? RM went on an insane unbeaten run until Jan 2017.

As for the CL Final, i want RM to win but I i've picked Juve.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:22 am 
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Happy for Zidane..... 4uck Real Madrid! Visca Barcelona.... Barca for Life!

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:36 am 
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Ok but can he do it on a cold November night at the Britannia? :taunt:

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:56 am 
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felarey wrote:
Ok but can he do it on a cold November night at the Britannia? :taunt:


How come no-one else is crying for him to come and replace Wenger.
Maybe they see that he may be another Pep riding on players.

Or maybe Zidane really has a bright future ahead and is really tactical :?:


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:46 am 
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benteke wrote:
felarey wrote:
Ok but can he do it on a cold November night at the Britannia? :taunt:


How come no-one else is crying for him to come and replace Wenger.
Maybe they see that he may be another Pep riding on players.

Or maybe Zidane really has a bright future ahead and is really tactical :?:


Chief players play a very big part of it as we have seen with Klopp and Pep. With average players a star coach quickly gets exposed. Give vettel a not so great engine and he becomes just another f1 driver :rotf:

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:38 am 
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tfco wrote:
i thought winning the CL last season was a fluke, sort of like Tyronne Lue with the Cavs

Is he a good coach, or are the players making him look good? RM went on an insane unbeaten run until Jan 2017.

As for the CL Final, i want RM to win but I i've picked Juve.

A coach is as good as his players. It is not an either/or situation. A coach is not a magician. He won't win La Liga coaching Sevilla. This is something people bamboozled by the English media and their deification of coaches from the days of Shankly, Busby, etc need to learn. All a coach does is improve on some minor details, the players need to do the rest.

He can't have played the game at the level he did without learning something about preparing for games. His presence and his achievements are added inspiration for the players, so when he talks, they listen, been there, done that, and all that. As El Presidente said when he was appointed, the man doesn't know the meaning of impossible.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:38 am 
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Congratulations Zidane and Real Madrid. As for the final of the champions, it is going to be the best defense against the best attack. DIficult to predict.


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:41 am 
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benteke wrote:
How come no-one else is crying for him to come and replace Wenger.
Maybe they see that he may be another Pep riding on players.

Or maybe Zidane really has a bright future ahead and is really tactical :?:

Why would anyone leave Real Madrid to coach the Arse? Some of you guys are unbelievable. Only seeing the world through EPL eyes.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:46 am 
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@CIC, and when those players collectively exceed the sum of their parts, is the coach then only as good as his players? Atletico had no business winning La Liga when they did, yet they did. The players at Ranieri's disposal had no business in the top half of the table, yet they topped it. Players and coached, managed to success and failure. Much like the team n any industry, they must be led.


Last edited by Coach on Mon May 22, 2017 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 9:18 am 
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Coach wrote:
@CIC, and when those players collectively exceed the sum of their parts, is the coach then only as good as his players? Atletico had no business winning La Liga when they did, yet they did. The players at Ranieri's disposal had mo business in the top half of the table, yet they topped it. Players and coached, managed to success and failure. Much like the team n any industry, they must be led.

Every team has to be led, but the point is how much in victory/failure do you give to leadership?

Atleti winning the league had a lot to do with the coach, players and other circumstances like the usual suspects fumbling too many times that season. Same for Leicester. I remember seeing a union leader complain about the CEO of a train company awarding himself a 10% pay raise for improvements in productivity and giving just 3% to train drivers. The union guy said: “You would think he drove every f*cking train himself”.

Coaching/leadership is about minor details that drive improvement. Ancelotti for e.g at Madrid had 18 people on his coaching staff, covering everything from nutrition, fitness, video analysis, etc. It is about creating a platform for the playing staff to do the business. But at the end of the day, it is still the players that will either get you the sack or win you a trophy. While everyone contributes, the bulk of the contribution on winning/losing is from players, arguably 95-99%.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:11 pm 
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Congratulations, Zizou, a total legend in my books. Hate Real, but love Zidane.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:13 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
tfco wrote:
i thought winning the CL last season was a fluke, sort of like Tyronne Lue with the Cavs

Is he a good coach, or are the players making him look good? RM went on an insane unbeaten run until Jan 2017.

As for the CL Final, i want RM to win but I i've picked Juve.

A coach is as good as his players. It is not an either/or situation. A coach is not a magician. He won't win La Liga coaching Sevilla. This is something people bamboozled by the English media and their deification of coaches from the days of Shankly, Busby, etc need to learn. All a coach does is improve on some minor details, the players need to do the rest.

He can't have played the game at the level he did without learning something about preparing for games. His presence and his achievements are added inspiration for the players, so when he talks, they listen, been there, done that, and all that. As El Presidente said when he was appointed, the man doesn't know the meaning of impossible.

Chief, I no gree o. Coaching matters. The same Real team could not win La Liga since 2012. Zizou almostly won it last season, and then won it this season in his first full year. To say that coaching is only about minor details does not explain why some coaches win where ever they go. Coaching is like generalship: some generals show up, reorganize the army, change tactics, inspire the men, and refuse to surrender, and suddenly, a hitherto demoralized army begins to kick arse. No, the generals/coaches do not fight/ play; they give orders and substitute personnel, and draw up or select the plans most likely to work. This is significantly more than "improving on minor details."

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 4:23 pm 
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ohsee wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
tfco wrote:
i thought winning the CL last season was a fluke, sort of like Tyronne Lue with the Cavs

Is he a good coach, or are the players making him look good? RM went on an insane unbeaten run until Jan 2017.

As for the CL Final, i want RM to win but I i've picked Juve.

A coach is as good as his players. It is not an either/or situation. A coach is not a magician. He won't win La Liga coaching Sevilla. This is something people bamboozled by the English media and their deification of coaches from the days of Shankly, Busby, etc need to learn. All a coach does is improve on some minor details, the players need to do the rest.

He can't have played the game at the level he did without learning something about preparing for games. His presence and his achievements are added inspiration for the players, so when he talks, they listen, been there, done that, and all that. As El Presidente said when he was appointed, the man doesn't know the meaning of impossible.

Chief, I no gree o. Coaching matters. The same Real team could not win La Liga since 2012. Zizou almostly won it last season, and then won it this season in his first full year. To say that coaching is only about minor details does not explain why some coaches win where ever they go. Coaching is like generalship: some generals show up, reorganize the army, change tactics, inspire the men, and refuse to surrender, and suddenly, a hitherto demoralized army begins to kick arse. No, the generals/coaches do not fight/ play; they give orders and substitute personnel, and draw up or select the plans most likely to work. This is significantly more than "improving on minor details."


Oga Ohsee, I think CIC hit it kponkwem...
The players make the coach everyday of the week all year long
"He won't win La Liga coaching Sevilla" can be ascribed to Zizou, or any other "elite" coach. Reason why top coaches won't go to a club without guarantees of a war-chest to assemble top-draw players.
Reason why a title-winning Conte would never countenance a stint at Hull City or Alaves...

I suggest today's 'elite' coaches are mere celebrities: give this RMadrid or Barcelona squad to Wenger, Klopp, Conte, Ancellotti, Guardiola, Simeone, or any other 'elite' coach today, and RMadrid or Barcelona will win La Liga & Champs League...

However, I wouldn't go as far back as a Busby or a Shankly when critiquing coaches; those coaches might have had as much to do with their triumphs as the players they coached...

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 4:32 pm 
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so CIC is claiming coaches do not matter :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 5:03 pm 
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FATHER TIKO wrote:
ohsee wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
tfco wrote:
i thought winning the CL last season was a fluke, sort of like Tyronne Lue with the Cavs

Is he a good coach, or are the players making him look good? RM went on an insane unbeaten run until Jan 2017.

As for the CL Final, i want RM to win but I i've picked Juve.

A coach is as good as his players. It is not an either/or situation. A coach is not a magician. He won't win La Liga coaching Sevilla. This is something people bamboozled by the English media and their deification of coaches from the days of Shankly, Busby, etc need to learn. All a coach does is improve on some minor details, the players need to do the rest.

He can't have played the game at the level he did without learning something about preparing for games. His presence and his achievements are added inspiration for the players, so when he talks, they listen, been there, done that, and all that. As El Presidente said when he was appointed, the man doesn't know the meaning of impossible.

Chief, I no gree o. Coaching matters. The same Real team could not win La Liga since 2012. Zizou almostly won it last season, and then won it this season in his first full year. To say that coaching is only about minor details does not explain why some coaches win where ever they go. Coaching is like generalship: some generals show up, reorganize the army, change tactics, inspire the men, and refuse to surrender, and suddenly, a hitherto demoralized army begins to kick arse. No, the generals/coaches do not fight/ play; they give orders and substitute personnel, and draw up or select the plans most likely to work. This is significantly more than "improving on minor details."


Oga Ohsee, I think CIC hit it kponkwem...
The players make the coach everyday of the week all year long
"He won't win La Liga coaching Sevilla" can be ascribed to Zizou, or any other "elite" coach. Reason why top coaches won't go to a club without guarantees of a war-chest to assemble top-draw players.
Reason why a title-winning Conte would never countenance a stint at Hull City or Alaves...

I suggest today's 'elite' coaches are mere celebrities: give this RMadrid or Barcelona squad to Wenger, Klopp, Conte, Ancellotti, Guardiola, Simeone, or any other 'elite' coach today, and RMadrid or Barcelona will win La Liga & Champs League...

However, I wouldn't go as far back as a Busby or a Shankly when critiquing coaches; those coaches might have had as much to do with their triumphs as the players they coached...

OK Chief, I get it--this is a joke, an ironic comment? If your argument is valid, Big Sam can go to Real Madrid and win just like Zizou. How do you explain David Moyes miserable flop at Manu after his tribesman appointed him successor? He inherited a team that won the previous year.

If it is the players and not the coach, why look for the right guy, and pay him millions? Why not just get any journeyman and get him to coach the marvelous collection of players? By the way, Ancellotti may have won the Champs league, but he could not win La Liga.

The coaches you mentioned are great generals, that is why they are elite coaches. Many of them became winners from places of obscurity. For instance Mourinho coached an unknown Porto to the Europa and Champions League, killing giants along the way. Wenger took a struggling Arsenal and made them winners.

Having a war chest alone means nothing. You have to have a strategy, and a tactical plan, and have an eye for the kinds of players that will work at optimum level with your strategy and tactical plan. If you bring any olodo to coach your team, all the money in the world will achieve nothing. You will just have a collection of stars who cannot win anything.

Where was Atletico before Diego Simeone showed up? How was he able to beat the perennial winners with a bunch of scrubs? Coaching matters. The history of the game teaches that the game changed when coaches were introduced--they did not always exist. Coaches brought organization and tactical plan, and made it possible for a well-drilled team of ordinary players to beat a more skilled collection of players.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:40 pm 
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ohsee wrote:
Chief, I no gree o. Coaching matters. The same Real team could not win La Liga since 2012. Zizou almostly won it last season, and then won it this season in his first full year. To say that coaching is only about minor details does not explain why some coaches win where ever they go. Coaching is like generalship: some generals show up, reorganize the army, change tactics, inspire the men, and refuse to surrender, and suddenly, a hitherto demoralized army begins to kick arse. No, the generals/coaches do not fight/ play; they give orders and substitute personnel, and draw up or select the plans most likely to work. This is significantly more than "improving on minor details."

Nna, there are many variables involved in winning games. A coach contributes, but it is only in the minor details. And when you have big teams like Real and Barca with almost equal levels of talent, it is those minor details that decide games.

Your general analogy is possibly appropriate for transformational coaches who totally revamp the philosophy of a club. If you look at the Arse b/4 Wenger and after he came, you could argue he was tranformational. Cruyff was like that at Barca, as Rinus Michels was at Ajax. Zizou has not made fundamental changes to Real.

Real could not win La Liga since 2012 b/c Barca was dominant, with a core of players with the Barca system in their DNA. Real tried to buy success and the absence of continuity meant that they bought a lot of misfits. Today, Barca is becoming like Real, buying a lot of expensive misfits, losing their identity, with very few graduating from the youth team, as Zizou is supplementing the superstars with some exciting youth prospects like Lucas Vazquez.

On those variables that win you games, you can't discount Zizou's iconic status at the club and the fact that Luis Enrique is on his way out following a mutiny possibly led by Messi.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 6:41 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
so CIC is claiming coaches do not matter :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Grownups are talking. Sit down and listen. You may learn something.

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:28 pm 
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Juventus will not give Real a sniff at goal, they have to earn it

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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:21 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
ohsee wrote:
Chief, I no gree o. Coaching matters. The same Real team could not win La Liga since 2012. Zizou almostly won it last season, and then won it this season in his first full year. To say that coaching is only about minor details does not explain why some coaches win where ever they go. Coaching is like generalship: some generals show up, reorganize the army, change tactics, inspire the men, and refuse to surrender, and suddenly, a hitherto demoralized army begins to kick arse. No, the generals/coaches do not fight/ play; they give orders and substitute personnel, and draw up or select the plans most likely to work. This is significantly more than "improving on minor details."

Nna, there are many variables involved in winning games. A coach contributes, but it is only in the minor details. And when you have big teams like Real and Barca with almost equal levels of talent, it is those minor details that decide games.

Your general analogy is possibly appropriate for transformational coaches who totally revamp the philosophy of a club. If you look at the Arse b/4 Wenger and after he came, you could argue he was tranformational. Cruyff was like that at Barca, as Rinus Michels was at Ajax. Zizou has not made fundamental changes to Real.

Real could not win La Liga since 2012 b/c Barca was dominant, with a core of players with the Barca system in their DNA. Real tried to buy success and the absence of continuity meant that they bought a lot of misfits. Today, Barca is becoming like Real, buying a lot of expensive misfits, losing their identity, with very few graduating from the youth team, as Zizou is supplementing the superstars with some exciting youth prospects like Lucas Vazquez.

On those variables that win you games, you can't discount Zizou's iconic status at the club and the fact that Luis Enrique is on his way out following a mutiny possibly led by Messi.

So are you saying that it is merely a minor matter to select the right kind of players to fit your system? OK o. If we grant that Zidane's iconic status helps win games, are you saying it is minor? Why do other iconic players not win games? Maradona was a total flop with Argentina, and his successor took almost the same team to the next final, how is that possible if coaching is not important?

If coaching is not important and is only minor, you will need to explain why big clubs--who have teams of experts working on this, and put their reputations and money on the line--spend so much money paying for, and effort trying to find the right coach. Is it because they like to throw money away? By your argument, David Moyes should have done just as well as Sir Alex Ferguson at Man United with the same players. But he did not. And David Moyes should do well at Real. Why not?

By the way, is a "transformational coach" not a coach? I don't call them "transformational," I call them "great coaches."

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Last edited by ohsee on Mon May 22, 2017 11:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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