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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:25 pm 
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balo wrote:
benteke wrote:
balo wrote:
benteke wrote:
balo wrote:
Chelsea were so defensive that they limited Man U to just 28% of ball possession. A new low for Man U this season.



Before the red card it was approximately 50-50% possession or something along the lines.
I did have a look as the game was going on



I wonder where you pulled that from. Definitely not bbc stats. Before the 35th minute Chelsea had the upper hand.


I'm not joking, because I was arguing with someone during the 1st half and we had to look at the stats, it something like 50-something for Chelsea to 40-something, that's why i said approximately 50-50, because from watching it appeared that way.
A far cry from that 28% you would have us believe


Man U's possession was of course impacted with playing a man down after the 35th minute. But I was intentionally looking at that bbc stats right from the beginning. I am certain Chelsea had the best of Man U in that category throughout the game.

By the way, Man U's game plan was obvious from the get go. They planned to be unnecessarily physical. Herrera's 2 cards were valid.


What i was pointing out to you is that before the red card, the posession stats were not too much in favour of Chelsea, it was something closer to a 50-50 rather than a mere 28% posession for Man United.
Before the red we were arguing with my mates that the game is pretty balanced and not the walkover everyone expected, that's why we ended up checking stats.
The stats themselves actually vary depending on where you check


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:51 pm 
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benteke wrote:
balo wrote:
benteke wrote:
balo wrote:
benteke wrote:
balo wrote:
Chelsea were so defensive that they limited Man U to just 28% of ball possession. A new low for Man U this season.



Before the red card it was approximately 50-50% possession or something along the lines.
I did have a look as the game was going on



I wonder where you pulled that from. Definitely not bbc stats. Before the 35th minute Chelsea had the upper hand.


I'm not joking, because I was arguing with someone during the 1st half and we had to look at the stats, it something like 50-something for Chelsea to 40-something, that's why i said approximately 50-50, because from watching it appeared that way.
A far cry from that 28% you would have us believe


Man U's possession was of course impacted with playing a man down after the 35th minute. But I was intentionally looking at that bbc stats right from the beginning. I am certain Chelsea had the best of Man U in that category throughout the game.

By the way, Man U's game plan was obvious from the get go. They planned to be unnecessarily physical. Herrera's 2 cards were valid.


What i was pointing out to you is that before the red card, the posession stats were not too much in favour of Chelsea, it was something closer to a 50-50 rather than a mere 28% posession for Man United.
Before the red we were arguing with my mates that the game is pretty balanced and not the walkover everyone expected, that's why we ended up checking stats.
The stats themselves actually vary depending on where you check



Seriously, I don't know what you are arguing. The 28% was for the game overall. Before Man U was down to 10 men, Chelsea still held the upper hand. I wasn't watching the match live on TV, but I was following that particular stats because of Mourinho's penchant to play mind games, before yesterday's game, saying Chelsea were only playing defensive.

Well, I was checking on BBC. And I don't think they would intentionally skew the possession stat just to favor Chelsea. The difference was clear.

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Last edited by balo on Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:53 pm 
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balo wrote:
The first yellow for Herrera wasn't as you described. He intentionally body-checked Hazard with the referee right before them and saw what happened. It was a dangerous play and Hazard got a lip cut from it.
.


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

we have a winner

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:57 pm 
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green4life wrote:
balo wrote:
Herrera was still in the field when Chelsea camped at Man U's half and forced De Gea to make two great saves.


Thanks for reminding breda tfco that ManU didn't have a shot on target during the entire first half while CFC was winning corner kicks and fks left and right in their half and calling Dea Gea to make at least two absolutely world class saves to keep the score even at 11 v 11. All this while they where trying to kick Hazard off the field. Listen, for me, fouling is ok if you do it properly and tactically. Jose knows this. Its part of what his teams do (including former teams like CFC) but there's a smart, professional way and a silly synical way. It was obvious what was happening in the first half and you didn't need to be Mike Oliver to figure it out.
.


:lol: :lol:

Lord knows a football team has never 'grown into' a game as time goes on.

With all that possession as you claim, the stats were about 10% in your favour though.

More importantly it was 0-0.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:00 pm 
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tfco wrote:
balo wrote:
The first yellow for Herrera wasn't as you described. He intentionally body-checked Hazard with the referee right before them and saw what happened. It was a dangerous play and Hazard got a lip cut from it.
.


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

we have a winner



You are having a laugh. Guess which 4 teams are going to Wembley.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:01 pm 
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Jose has finished Pogba..Paul should ask for a transfer

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:04 pm 
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:clap: :clap: :clap:

excellent analysis by Michael Cox. I saw a master tactician at work yesterday.
Prior to KO, i was expecting walkover, but the boys did well.

Interesting, he also mentioned what i initially said about Kante, but ITK's thought otherwise

We will beat Chelsea at OT


Quote:
Did José Mourinho’s use of a back six show the best way to try to halt Chelsea?

The problem with facing Antonio Conte’s Chelsea, as so many Premier League managers have discovered this season, is that their front three becomes a front five. In Monday night’s FA Cup tie at Stamford Bridge, José Mourinho responded by effectively deploying a back six.

Chelsea have overloaded the opposition frequently this season thanks to Eden Hazard and Pedro (or, in this case, Willian) drifting inside to positions close to Diego Costa, allowing Marcos Alonso and Victor Moses to push forward aggressively down the outside. Opponents are exposed when their back four is dragged to one side, leaving Alonso or Moses free at the far post, and the only response is for the opposition wingers to retreat, effectively forming a six-man defence.

Mourinho was perhaps the first manager to effectively accept the latter situation. Phil Jones and Matteo Darmian were fielded in nominal full-back positions, but instructed to man-mark Hazard and Willian respectively, often ending up in front of their centre-backs, Chris Smalling and Marcos Rojo. In turn, this forced Antonio Valencia and Ashley Young – two natural wingers who have often found themselves deployed at full-back over the past couple of seasons – to track back and cover the space on the outside of Manchester United’s centre-backs.

The approach was typically Mourinho, about being flexible and determinedly nullifying key opposition players, but also somewhat of a throwback to the Sir Alex Ferguson days. United’s approach in the full-back positions was somewhat reminiscent of the way Gary Neville and Denis Irwin tucked inside to track Youri Djorkaeff and Roberto Baggio during their famous 2-0 victory over Internazionale on the way to winning the 1999 European Cup, for example. Introducing Jones to man-mark the opposition’s key player was also something Ferguson did regularly during his final campaign when he pinpointed a dangerous opponent: Everton’s Marouane Fellaini and Tottenham’s Gareth Bale inflicted United’s first two defeats of 2012-13, and in the return meetings found Jones tracking them all over the pitch.

In the opening stages Mourinho’s unusual defensive approach, combined with Paul Pogba and Ander Herrera shutting down N’Golo Kanté and Nemanja Matic quickly in midfield, caused Chelsea real problems. Chelsea’s back three struggled to find a positive forward pass, with every other player tracked comfortably. United’s pressing was impressive, they circulated the ball effectively, and played the majority of the first 15 minutes inside Chelsea’s half.

Conte’s side adapted impressively, however. Hazard and Willian realised they were under close scrutiny and started to vary their positions more dramatically, with Hazard drifting into midfield and Willian moving across into an inside-left role. United were still attempting to man-mark, but Jones and Darmian clearly felt uncomfortable crossing to the opposite side of the pitch, and often let their opponents run free. Willian showed some lovely touches in possession, particularly with a couple of backheels into the path of team-mates which quickened the tempo, while Hazard became the game’s key player.

The Belgian’s drifts inside meant he was no longer simply watched by Jones, but also by Herrera – who was dismissed for two fouls on Hazard, the first a body-check, the second a trip when Hazard typically spun quickly after receiving possession. Although Hazard was not literally the matchwinner, with Kanté’s second-half long-range strike proving the game’s only goal, it was his movement which ensured Chelsea’s passing improved dramatically, and his trickery which resulted in Herrera’s dismissal, the contest’s turning point.

Mourinho immediately summoned Fellaini in place of Henrikh Mkhitaryan, which meant Marcus Rashford was now extremely isolated as United’s formation appeared 6-2-1 when Chelsea retained possession for long periods. Pogba, who had started brightly, was eventually overshadowed by Kanté, but this was simply a reflection of Chelsea’s overall dominance. With David Luiz able to step forward and dictate play, Chelsea were in control and Chelsea continually piled pressure upon United’s massed defence.

Rashford was forced to fend for himself up front, and turned a David Luiz mistake into a fine goalscoring opportunity which forced Thibaut Courtois to save smartly. But Mourinho made little attempt to change things significantly – Jesse Lingard on for Young was his only second-half substitution, and former Chelsea playmaker Juan Mata did not get off the bench.

Mourinho may seek to replicate this plan for Chelsea’s trip to Old Trafford next month. One suspects, however, that Conte will have an alternative strategy of his own, and having increasingly used a 3-5-1-1 in the second half of matches recently, may start to use that system from the outset too

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:04 pm 
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balo wrote:
tfco wrote:
balo wrote:
The first yellow for Herrera wasn't as you described. He intentionally body-checked Hazard with the referee right before them and saw what happened. It was a dangerous play and Hazard got a lip cut from it.
.


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

we have a winner



You are having a laugh. Guess which 4 teams are going to Wembley.


did you watch the game?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
Image

Jose has finished Pogba..Paul should ask for a transfer

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: (I don't think he has done anything to him,Pogba is just not good as people make him out to be....
When we pulled out Mikel vs Matic stats on another forum,it worst worst for Matic yet how Jose was playing him ahead of boy wonder is a crime on his own.
Good to see Chelsea fans call him judas.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:05 pm 
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tfco wrote:
balo wrote:
tfco wrote:
balo wrote:
The first yellow for Herrera wasn't as you described. He intentionally body-checked Hazard with the referee right before them and saw what happened. It was a dangerous play and Hazard got a lip cut from it.
.


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

we have a winner



You are having a laugh. Guess which 4 teams are going to Wembley.


did you watch the game?

:rotf: :rotf:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
Image

Jose has finished Pogba..Paul should ask for a transfer


yes, playing 10 v 12 will tend to skew stats in one direction.

Just...go to China

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:06 pm 
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tfco wrote:
balo wrote:
tfco wrote:
balo wrote:
The first yellow for Herrera wasn't as you described. He intentionally body-checked Hazard with the referee right before them and saw what happened. It was a dangerous play and Hazard got a lip cut from it.
.


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

we have a winner



You are having a laugh. Guess which 4 teams are going to Wembley.


did you watch the game?



YES. Next question.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:16 pm 
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And the next paragraph to your highlight says:


Quote:
Conte’s side adapted impressively, however. Hazard and Willian realised they were under close scrutiny and started to vary their positions more dramatically, with Hazard drifting into midfield and Willian moving across into an inside-left role. United were still attempting to man-mark, but Jones and Darmian clearly felt uncomfortable crossing to the opposite side of the pitch, and often let their opponents run free. Willian showed some lovely touches in possession, particularly with a couple of backheels into the path of team-mates which quickened the tempo, while Hazard became the game’s key player.


Yes there were not many passing lanes but the ball was mostly with Chelsea players and they switched the ball around at the back which was why the game was in Chelsea's half during that first 15 minutes. It wasn't because Man U players were doing anything with the ball.

If your team lost the first game at SB by 4, it is expected that you come back a bit more defensive in your approach, never mind that Mo was accusing Chelsea of being defensive, I wished Chelsea had scored those 2 goals that De Gea saved, then this discussion won't take place.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:36 pm 
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green4life wrote:
Jose's impact towards Mikel's success at CFC is minimal



Exactly my point! :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: If Mikel is a sideways passer, its because he is too dumb to be better than that. Has nothing to do with Mourinho, as Mourinho has absolutely nothing to do with Mikel's straitjacket career. And his retirement at 29 proves it. :taunt: :rotf: :rotf:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:38 pm 
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tfco wrote:
Bigpokey24 wrote:
Image

Jose has finished Pogba..Paul should ask for a transfer


yes, playing 10 v 12 will tend to skew stats in one direction.

Just...go to China

the thing dey pain you..5-0 :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:39 pm 
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Bigpokey24 wrote:
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Jose has finished Pogba..Paul should ask for a transfer



And go where? To China and retire like your straitjacket lover? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:42 pm 
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kajifu wrote:
Bigpokey24 wrote:
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Jose has finished Pogba..Paul should ask for a transfer

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: (I don't think he has done anything to him,Pogba is just not good as people make him out to be....
When we pulled out Mikel vs Matic stats on another forum,it worst worst for Matic yet how Jose was playing him ahead of boy wonder is a crime on his own.
Good to see Chelsea fans call him judas.



The problem with Pogba is that he is big and black! That is Pogba's only problem. His race. If Pogba was a white man, many people will see him for who he is. Its like playing Iniesta deep and wondering why he is not at his best. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Pogba has been at his best when Carrick plays. Same way he was fantastic at Juve when they had Vidal. Pogba is NOT a defensive midfielder, but it seems that if you are a black man and you are tall, then you must be a defensive midfielder. This racist thinking has to stop. you will see the real pogba when United buy their defensive midfielder next season/.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:43 pm 
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tfco , blue is the color, football is the game , we're all together and winning is our aim .. :lol: :lol: if you want make i finish the rest just ask

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Last edited by Bigpokey24 on Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:43 pm 
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tfco wrote:
:clap: :clap: :clap:

excellent analysis by Michael Cox. I saw a master tactician at work yesterday.
Prior to KO, i was expecting walkover, but the boys did well.

Interesting, he also mentioned what i initially said about Kante, but ITK's thought otherwise

We will beat Chelsea at OT


Quote:
Did José Mourinho’s use of a back six show the best way to try to halt Chelsea?

The problem with facing Antonio Conte’s Chelsea, as so many Premier League managers have discovered this season, is that their front three becomes a front five. In Monday night’s FA Cup tie at Stamford Bridge, José Mourinho responded by effectively deploying a back six.

Chelsea have overloaded the opposition frequently this season thanks to Eden Hazard and Pedro (or, in this case, Willian) drifting inside to positions close to Diego Costa, allowing Marcos Alonso and Victor Moses to push forward aggressively down the outside. Opponents are exposed when their back four is dragged to one side, leaving Alonso or Moses free at the far post, and the only response is for the opposition wingers to retreat, effectively forming a six-man defence.

Mourinho was perhaps the first manager to effectively accept the latter situation. Phil Jones and Matteo Darmian were fielded in nominal full-back positions, but instructed to man-mark Hazard and Willian respectively, often ending up in front of their centre-backs, Chris Smalling and Marcos Rojo. In turn, this forced Antonio Valencia and Ashley Young – two natural wingers who have often found themselves deployed at full-back over the past couple of seasons – to track back and cover the space on the outside of Manchester United’s centre-backs.

The approach was typically Mourinho, about being flexible and determinedly nullifying key opposition players, but also somewhat of a throwback to the Sir Alex Ferguson days. United’s approach in the full-back positions was somewhat reminiscent of the way Gary Neville and Denis Irwin tucked inside to track Youri Djorkaeff and Roberto Baggio during their famous 2-0 victory over Internazionale on the way to winning the 1999 European Cup, for example. Introducing Jones to man-mark the opposition’s key player was also something Ferguson did regularly during his final campaign when he pinpointed a dangerous opponent: Everton’s Marouane Fellaini and Tottenham’s Gareth Bale inflicted United’s first two defeats of 2012-13, and in the return meetings found Jones tracking them all over the pitch.

In the opening stages Mourinho’s unusual defensive approach, combined with Paul Pogba and Ander Herrera shutting down N’Golo Kanté and Nemanja Matic quickly in midfield, caused Chelsea real problems. Chelsea’s back three struggled to find a positive forward pass, with every other player tracked comfortably. United’s pressing was impressive, they circulated the ball effectively, and played the majority of the first 15 minutes inside Chelsea’s half.

[color=#008000][color=#008000]Conte’s side adapted impressively, however. Hazard and Willian realised they were under close scrutiny and started to vary their positions more dramatically, with Hazard drifting into midfield and Willian moving across into an inside-left role. United were still attempting to man-mark, but Jones and Darmian clearly felt uncomfortable crossing to the opposite side of the pitch, and often let their opponents run free. Willian showed some lovely touches in possession, particularly with a couple of backheels into the path of team-mates which quickened the tempo, while Hazard became the game’s key player.

The Belgian’s drifts inside meant he was no longer simply watched by Jones, but also by Herrera – who was dismissed for two fouls on Hazard, the first a body-check, the second a trip when Hazard typically spun quickly after receiving possession. Although Hazard was not literally the matchwinner, with Kanté’s second-half long-range strike proving the game’s only goal, it was his movement which ensured Chelsea’s passing improved dramatically, and his trickery which resulted in Herrera’s dismissal, the contest’s turning point.

Mourinho immediately summoned Fellaini in place of Henrikh Mkhitaryan, which meant Marcus Rashford was now extremely isolated as United’s formation appeared 6-2-1 when Chelsea retained possession for long periods. Pogba, who had started brightly, was eventually overshadowed by Kanté, but this was simply a reflection of Chelsea’s overall dominance. With David Luiz able to step forward and dictate play, Chelsea were in control and Chelsea continually piled pressure upon United’s massed defence.

Rashford was forced to fend for himself up front, and turned a David Luiz mistake into a fine goalscoring opportunity which forced Thibaut Courtois to save smartly. But Mourinho made little attempt to change things significantly – Jesse Lingard on for Young was his only second-half substitution, and former Chelsea playmaker Juan Mata did not get off the bench
[/color][/color].

Mourinho may seek to replicate this plan for Chelsea’s trip to Old Trafford next month. One suspects, however, that Conte will have an alternative strategy of his own, and having increasingly used a 3-5-1-1 in the second half of matches recently, may start to use that system from the outset too

TFCO conveniently left this out :rotf:

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Last edited by paj on Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:45 pm 
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tfco so cheer us on through the sun and rain , cause Chelsea is ??????/ :lol: :lol: :lol: we go beat una again for old trafford king of draws .. 6th place trophy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:01 pm 
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Andrew in Spanish = ???
Smith in Spanish = ???


balo wrote:
wiseone wrote:
Andrew Smith was very unlucky to be sent off. He basically got sent off for fouls being committed by other people. Jones, Rojo, and Darmian committed worse fouls than him and stayed on the pitch. The first yellow was a joke. Hazard ran into him as Smith was turning around to see where the ball was.




Andrew Smith? OK. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:20 pm 
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balo wrote:
benteke wrote:
balo wrote:
benteke wrote:
balo wrote:
benteke wrote:
balo wrote:
Chelsea were so defensive that they limited Man U to just 28% of ball possession. A new low for Man U this season.



Before the red card it was approximately 50-50% possession or something along the lines.
I did have a look as the game was going on



I wonder where you pulled that from. Definitely not bbc stats. Before the 35th minute Chelsea had the upper hand.


I'm not joking, because I was arguing with someone during the 1st half and we had to look at the stats, it something like 50-something for Chelsea to 40-something, that's why i said approximately 50-50, because from watching it appeared that way.
A far cry from that 28% you would have us believe


Man U's possession was of course impacted with playing a man down after the 35th minute. But I was intentionally looking at that bbc stats right from the beginning. I am certain Chelsea had the best of Man U in that category throughout the game.

By the way, Man U's game plan was obvious from the get go. They planned to be unnecessarily physical. Herrera's 2 cards were valid.


What i was pointing out to you is that before the red card, the posession stats were not too much in favour of Chelsea, it was something closer to a 50-50 rather than a mere 28% posession for Man United.
Before the red we were arguing with my mates that the game is pretty balanced and not the walkover everyone expected, that's why we ended up checking stats.
The stats themselves actually vary depending on where you check



Seriously, I don't know what you are arguing. The 28% was for the game overall. Before Man U was down to 10 men, Chelsea still held the upper hand. I wasn't watching the match live on TV, but I was following that particular stats because of Mourinho's penchant to play mind games, before yesterday's game, saying Chelsea were only playing defensive.

Well, I was checking on BBC. And I don't think they would intentionally skew the possession stat just to favor Chelsea. The difference was clear.


The 28% quote seems to suggest that Chelsea was camped in Man United's half all game, but that was not the case, especially in the 1st half before the card. That's all i am saying. Thats how it appeared when watching the game.

the way these possesion stats are calculated are not very clear anyway, here is what Opta says:

Quote:


It still holds, but every other week we are questioned about that fact as someone, somewhere publishes figures saying that Stoke have finally had more than 50%.

This is because there are several data providers out there in the UK and across the world monitoring games, from TV companies themselves for live games, to specialists like Opta.

Each has their own method of working out possession. Some use calculations based on the data, but most use a "chess clock" approach where each team has a button which is hit when they are in possession. Some do this in the broadcast truck, others have analysts who call it out and inputters who hit the buttons.

Opta used this method originally, but the problem we found with a chess clock approach for time is that you are reliant on the person logging the data remembering to hit the button and the person doing it usually has other tasks to perform and other data to log.

Missing a couple of switches obviously skews the possession figures and it's impossible to go back and change it. It may not sound much but one minute where the clock is wrong can affect the possession figures by two to three percentage points.

Opta now record possession in a football match by means of an automated calculation based on the number of passes that a team has in a game. We have two analysts, each monitoring one of the teams and they log each event in a game, totalling between 1600 and 2000 events per match.

Each of these events has a timecode plus an xy co-ordinate and the collection system is rigorously monitored by our team of checkers.

During the game, the passes for each team are totalled up and then each team's total is divided by the game total to produce a percentage figure which shows the percentage of the game that each team has accrued in possession of the ball.

For example, when Arsenal played Huddersfield in the FA Cup, Opta recorded the Gunners as having enjoyed 70% possession. Elsewhere you might have seen figures as low as around 40%. Arsenal made more than 650 passes, while the Terriers mustered around 250.

The interesting fact is that when we first implemented this calculation, we did some tests against logging time on the same matches and the figures for both the passes calculation and time methods came up with exactly the same figures on almost every occasion.

For the record, Stoke's highest possession figure was 49% against Blackburn Rovers on 20th December 2008 at Ewood Park. - See
more at: http://www.optasports.com/news-area/blo ... TSjR0.dpuf


Last edited by benteke on Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:47 pm
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Location: Akoko Highlands
wiseone wrote:
Andrew in Spanish = ???
Smith in Spanish = ???


balo wrote:
wiseone wrote:
Andrew Smith was very unlucky to be sent off. He basically got sent off for fouls being committed by other people. Jones, Rojo, and Darmian committed worse fouls than him and stayed on the pitch. The first yellow was a joke. Hazard ran into him as Smith was turning around to see where the ball was.




Andrew Smith? OK. :D



Didn't know u don switch. No problem sir!

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