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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:09 pm 
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marutimon wrote:
green4life wrote:
That fact that Kante elevates his teams is not even arguable. The question is whether Gueye, playing for a top manager and with more talented teammates at Everton than Kante had at Leicester City, can push his team to a top 4 finish, talk less of wining the league. CL QF qualification is not a trophy and neither is top 4 by the way.


Again: Nothing concrete, just a subjective 'elevates his team' argument. A better argument can be made that Kante didn't elevate Chelsea, but Moses did, as Chelsea only started winning when Moses became a first team stalwart. FACT!

A team which without Kante makes the 1/4 final of the Champions League has worse players than Everton??? This argument makes no sense whatsoever. Mahrez made many European Teams of the Year, there was also Vardy, Drinkwater and Schmeichel. And in general a great team.

Everton have who exactly? Lukaku, Gueye and... who exactly? Bolasie? Schneiderlin? Barkley? Barry? You kid...

But Gueye does not have more talented teammates at Everton than Kante had at Leicester. Also Leicester in part did win because most of their opposition was in crisis / downfall mode (Chelsea, Manchester United, to a lesser extent Arsenal) or rebuilding mode (Tottenham, Liverpool).

Kante right now has the same teammates that won the EPL two seasons ago. But given the same teams Gueye would do the same, if not better.


Leicester City must have better players than Arsenal, Spurs and Man City because they made QF of CL while those 3 did not.

Also your argument that Leicester city had more talented players last season than Everton this season is laughable but that's a topic for another thread. Nonetheless, the object of the game is to win. Its rare for a player to be voted best player in his league or in Europe when his club hasn't won any major trophy (League title or CL). The best players elevate their teams performance to title wining status. Be it football, basketball, etc. When you talk about the best, you discuss stats and trophies. The two are relevant and anything but subjective. And Kante is proven in this regard. He didn't just win top 4 trophy at Leicester but the league title. Moses is our boy but he isn't proven in that regard. In fact if you've been watching you'd know that its been a while since Moses had an exceptional performance. When was the last game Moses consistently got behind his marker en route to the 18? Its been a while. But Kante has been going from strength to strength picking up Motm awards left and right. You can also go to CFC blogs and read the post game votes. That's not subjective either. Anyway, since Gueye is so good, the least we should expect is the top 4 title from Everton. That shouldn't be too much to ask for.

By the way what is downfall or crisis mode? What downfall befell Arsenal, Spurs, CFC, ManU et al? Was Everton in crisis too? Why didn't they win the league when all the big dogs where in so called crisis? The 19 teams last season just collectively agreed to give up so that Leicester City will win and make Kante look good because it will make a heart warming story. That makes a lot of sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:18 pm 
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Cristao II wrote:
marutimon wrote:
green4life wrote:
That fact that Kante elevates his teams is not even arguable. The question is whether Gueye, playing for a top manager and with more talented teammates at Everton than Kante had at Leicester City, can push his team to a top 4 finish, talk less of wining the league. CL QF qualification is not a trophy and neither is top 4 by the way.


Again: Nothing concrete, just a subjective 'elevates his team' argument. A better argument can be made that Kante didn't elevate Chelsea, but Moses did, as Chelsea only started winning when Moses became a first team stalwart. FACT!

A team which without Kante makes the 1/4 final of the Champions League has worse players than Everton??? This argument makes no sense whatsoever. Mahrez made many European Teams of the Year, there was also Vardy, Drinkwater and Schmeichel. And in general a great team.

Everton have who exactly? Lukaku, Gueye and... who exactly? Bolasie? Schneiderlin? Barkley? Barry? You kid...

But Gueye does not have more talented teammates at Everton than Kante had at Leicester. Also Leicester in part did win because most of their opposition was in crisis / downfall mode (Chelsea, Manchester United, to a lesser extent Arsenal) or rebuilding mode (Tottenham, Liverpool).

Kante right now has the same teammates that won the EPL two seasons ago. But given the same teams Gueye would do the same, if not better.


Gueye is not as consistent as Kante and doesnt have such a good pass as well.


Oh, yes he is. Guest is even more consistent than Kante. The only time he didn't perform this season was straight after the AFCON which is understandable.


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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:27 pm 
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green4life wrote:
Leicester City must have better players than Arsenal, Spurs and Man City because they made QF of CL while those 3 did not.


The argument is as pointless as it is selfdefeating. Leicester have the better team and tactics that work for this set of players. Rainer messed up when hechanged the tactics.

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lso your argument that Leicester city had more talented players last season than Everton this season is laughable but that's a topic for another thread. Nonetheless, the object of the game is to win. Its rare for a player to be voted best player in his league or in Europe when his club hasn't won any major trophy (League title or CL). The best players elevate their teams performance to title wining status. Be it football, basketball, etc. When you talk about the best, you discuss stats and trophies. The two are relevant and anything but subjective. And Kante is proven in this regard. He didn't just win top 4 trophy at Leicester but the league title. Moses is our boy but he isn't proven in that regard. In fact if you've been watching you'd know that its been a while since Moses had an exceptional performance. When was the last game Moses consistently got behind his marker en route to the 18? Its been a while. But Kante has been going from strength to strength picking up Motm awards left and right. You can also go to CFC blogs and read the post game votes. That's not subjective either. Anyway, since Gueye is so good, the least we should expect is the top 4 title from Everton. That shouldn't be too much to ask for.

By the way what is downfall or crisis mode? What downfall befell Arsenal, Spurs, CFC, ManU et al? Was Everton in crisis too? Why didn't they win the league when all the big dogs where in so called crisis? The 19 teams last season just collectively agreed to give up so that Leicester City will win and make Kante look good because it will make a heart warming story. That makes a lot of sense.


So your argument remains that Kante is better player because his team is better. Whatever.


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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:32 pm 
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Comparing Kante to Wanyama is like comparing a sleek car to a 4WD jeep. Kante is the sleek car, Wanyama is the jeep..only good for rough terrain..while Kante can cope with both rough and smooth.

Seriously nothing to compare,two different kind of players the only similarity is that both do not have oyinbo names.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:40 pm 
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oloye wrote:
Comparing Kante to Wanyama is like comparing a sleek car to a 4WD jeep. Kante is the sleek car, Wanyama is the jeep..only good for rough terrain..while Kante can cope with both rough and smooth.

Seriously nothing to compare,two different kind of players the only similarity is that both do not have oyinbo names.


Egbon Oloye, this ya analogy get as he be but I'll oblige you. Wanyama is a 4w drive that has speed and power. He can go on all game and outmuscle any player while still possessing the speed of a Porsche :tic: .

Kante is a long distance vehicle that never seems to run out of petrol on one tank. He's like a rally car or a 24h Lamond racing car. But when it comes to raw power and terrain suited for a 4wheel drive, he'll have to give way small.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:45 pm 
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Marutimon, sorry but you come across as someone who's jealous that Gueye is barely being mentioned in the same breath as Kante by pundits or what have you. A massive reason is due to the performance of Kante's current team. If they were languishing in 10th place or outside top 4, Kante wouldn't receive anywhere as much applause. Everton, on the other hand are exactly where they've always been: in and around the top 6 and most definitely out of the top 4. Whether they had Gueye or no Gueye there's no difference. You can usually guess where they will finish: anywhere between 7th up to 5th. So you tell me the impact of Gueye? Whereas Kante took a team, Leicester, that before the season started most bet that they would get relegated and won the league. He left and they slipped back into relegation zone. The current change in fortune is likely due to initial bump from a change in manager but we don't know how long it will last. But realistically, a good if not amazing season for Leicester is finishing as high as 8th or even 7th and wining a domestic cup. Not even close to Everton in any way - except for doing the unthinkable last season for which Kante can claim a massive role in ... something unfortunately that Gueye hasn't done. He couldn't even lead his country - star studded team and all - to win a nations cup when most of the ANC big dogs were in real crisis mode.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:59 pm 
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pajimoh wrote:
oloye wrote:
Comparing Kante to Wanyama is like comparing a sleek car to a 4WD jeep. Kante is the sleek car, Wanyama is the jeep..only good for rough terrain..while Kante can cope with both rough and smooth.

Seriously nothing to compare,two different kind of players the only similarity is that both do not have oyinbo names.


Egbon Oloye, this ya analogy get as he be but I'll oblige you. Wanyama is a 4w drive that has speed and power. He can go on all game and outmuscle any player while still possessing the speed of a Porsche :tic: .

Kante is a long distance vehicle that never seems to run out of petrol on one tank. He's like a rally car or a 24h Lamond racing car. But when it comes to raw power and terrain suited for a 4wheel drive, he'll have to give way small.

yeye Forestman..the moment dey mention terrain the visuals of the Ijebu Jungle hopped right into ya mind eh? :roll:
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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:08 pm 
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I remember seeing a quote from Makelele to the effect that Kante
needs to add 'leadership' to the repertoire before he can be
acknowledged as an elite player. That weekend, Kante scored
the only goal that advanced chelsea past Man U in the FA Cup
quarter finals.

In about two months, when Chelsea has won the league and
Kante wins a bunch of individual honours, let us have this
debate again.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Truth be told ..last season when Leicester was doing it I wasn't watching them much but my pals who did kept talking about Kante..and this was even before December...the talk was that Kante allowed The Algerian and others to do their thing.....this season @ Everton all we hear is Lukaku..didn't know much about Gueye until mentioned in this thread...but now I go watch the guy..especially when we jam Everton again in the return leg

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:15 pm 
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pajimoh wrote:
oloye wrote:
Comparing Kante to Wanyama is like comparing a sleek car to a 4WD jeep. Kante is the sleek car, Wanyama is the jeep..only good for rough terrain..while Kante can cope with both rough and smooth.

Seriously nothing to compare,two different kind of players the only similarity is that both do not have oyinbo names.


Egbon Oloye, this ya analogy get as he be but I'll oblige you. Wanyama is a 4w drive that has speed and power. He can go on all game and outmuscle any player while still possessing the speed of a Porsche :tic: .

Kante is a long distance vehicle that never seems to run out of petrol on one tank. He's like a rally car or a 24h Lamond racing car. But when it comes to raw power and terrain suited for a 4wheel drive, he'll have to give way small.



There is only one way to find out. Ship out Wanyama to Chelsea so we can see who chops bench. :sneaky:

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:16 pm 
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balo wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
oloye wrote:
Comparing Kante to Wanyama is like comparing a sleek car to a 4WD jeep. Kante is the sleek car, Wanyama is the jeep..only good for rough terrain..while Kante can cope with both rough and smooth.

Seriously nothing to compare,two different kind of players the only similarity is that both do not have oyinbo names.


Egbon Oloye, this ya analogy get as he be but I'll oblige you. Wanyama is a 4w drive that has speed and power. He can go on all game and outmuscle any player while still possessing the speed of a Porsche :tic: .

Kante is a long distance vehicle that never seems to run out of petrol on one tank. He's like a rally car or a 24h Lamond racing car. But when it comes to raw power and terrain suited for a 4wheel drive, he'll have to give way small.



There is only one way to find out. Ship out Wanyama to Chelsea so we can see who chops bench. :sneaky:

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:20 pm 
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balo wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
oloye wrote:
Comparing Kante to Wanyama is like comparing a sleek car to a 4WD jeep. Kante is the sleek car, Wanyama is the jeep..only good for rough terrain..while Kante can cope with both rough and smooth.

Seriously nothing to compare,two different kind of players the only similarity is that both do not have oyinbo names.


Egbon Oloye, this ya analogy get as he be but I'll oblige you. Wanyama is a 4w drive that has speed and power. He can go on all game and outmuscle any player while still possessing the speed of a Porsche :tic: .

Kante is a long distance vehicle that never seems to run out of petrol on one tank. He's like a rally car or a 24h Lamond racing car. But when it comes to raw power and terrain suited for a 4wheel drive, he'll have to give way small.



There is only one way to find out. Ship out Wanyama to Chelsea so we can see who chops bench. :sneaky:

matic and fabregas

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:23 pm 
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balo wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
oloye wrote:
Comparing Kante to Wanyama is like comparing a sleek car to a 4WD jeep. Kante is the sleek car, Wanyama is the jeep..only good for rough terrain..while Kante can cope with both rough and smooth.

Seriously nothing to compare,two different kind of players the only similarity is that both do not have oyinbo names.


Egbon Oloye, this ya analogy get as he be but I'll oblige you. Wanyama is a 4w drive that has speed and power. He can go on all game and outmuscle any player while still possessing the speed of a Porsche :tic: .

Kante is a long distance vehicle that never seems to run out of petrol on one tank. He's like a rally car or a 24h Lamond racing car. But when it comes to raw power and terrain suited for a 4wheel drive, he'll have to give way small.



There is only one way to find out. Ship out Wanyama to Chelsea so we can see who chops bench. :sneaky:



No need, just rewind to the beat down at the Lane :tic: :taunt:

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:24 pm 
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Prince wrote:
balo wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
oloye wrote:
Comparing Kante to Wanyama is like comparing a sleek car to a 4WD jeep. Kante is the sleek car, Wanyama is the jeep..only good for rough terrain..while Kante can cope with both rough and smooth.

Seriously nothing to compare,two different kind of players the only similarity is that both do not have oyinbo names.


Egbon Oloye, this ya analogy get as he be but I'll oblige you. Wanyama is a 4w drive that has speed and power. He can go on all game and outmuscle any player while still possessing the speed of a Porsche :tic: .

Kante is a long distance vehicle that never seems to run out of petrol on one tank. He's like a rally car or a 24h Lamond racing car. But when it comes to raw power and terrain suited for a 4wheel drive, he'll have to give way small.



There is only one way to find out. Ship out Wanyama to Chelsea so we can see who chops bench. :sneaky:

matic and fabregas



At that point, offers will be accepted for Matic. Fab will still be needed. There will be some games where Fab's brilliance will be needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:29 pm 
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paj wrote:
balo wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
oloye wrote:
Comparing Kante to Wanyama is like comparing a sleek car to a 4WD jeep. Kante is the sleek car, Wanyama is the jeep..only good for rough terrain..while Kante can cope with both rough and smooth.

Seriously nothing to compare,two different kind of players the only similarity is that both do not have oyinbo names.


Egbon Oloye, this ya analogy get as he be but I'll oblige you. Wanyama is a 4w drive that has speed and power. He can go on all game and outmuscle any player while still possessing the speed of a Porsche :tic: .

Kante is a long distance vehicle that never seems to run out of petrol on one tank. He's like a rally car or a 24h Lamond racing car. But when it comes to raw power and terrain suited for a 4wheel drive, he'll have to give way small.



There is only one way to find out. Ship out Wanyama to Chelsea so we can see who chops bench. :sneaky:

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


kai that was funny :bump: :rotf:


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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:30 pm 
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balo wrote:
Prince wrote:
balo wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
oloye wrote:
Comparing Kante to Wanyama is like comparing a sleek car to a 4WD jeep. Kante is the sleek car, Wanyama is the jeep..only good for rough terrain..while Kante can cope with both rough and smooth.

Seriously nothing to compare,two different kind of players the only similarity is that both do not have oyinbo names.


Egbon Oloye, this ya analogy get as he be but I'll oblige you. Wanyama is a 4w drive that has speed and power. He can go on all game and outmuscle any player while still possessing the speed of a Porsche :tic: .

Kante is a long distance vehicle that never seems to run out of petrol on one tank. He's like a rally car or a 24h Lamond racing car. But when it comes to raw power and terrain suited for a 4wheel drive, he'll have to give way small.



There is only one way to find out. Ship out Wanyama to Chelsea so we can see who chops bench. :sneaky:

matic and fabregas



At that point, offers will be accepted for Matic. Fab will still be needed. There will be some games where Fab's brilliance will be needed.


When will be a chinese club come and offer money for Matic :evil: I am waiting for the summer :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:32 pm 
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pajimoh wrote:
oloye wrote:
Comparing Kante to Wanyama is like comparing a sleek car to a 4WD jeep. Kante is the sleek car, Wanyama is the jeep..only good for rough terrain..while Kante can cope with both rough and smooth.

Seriously nothing to compare,two different kind of players the only similarity is that both do not have oyinbo names.


Egbon Oloye, this ya analogy get as he be but I'll oblige you. Wanyama is a 4w drive that has speed and power. He can go on all game and outmuscle any player while still possessing the speed of a Porsche :tic: .

Kante is a long distance vehicle that never seems to run out of petrol on one tank. He's like a rally car or a 24h Lamond racing car. But when it comes to raw power and terrain suited for a 4wheel drive, he'll have to give way small.

When i got here,i said to myself this has got to be Spurs fan,then i looked up to see the avatar ...voila i was right :D

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:31 pm 
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You guys are comparing "guguru and epah". :P Wanyama is like a wildebeest jumping into a river full of crocs during migration in Masai-Mara :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Chimex101 wrote:
Kante by several miles, no midfielder can touch the little guy right now.


Stop touching little boys you cretinous imbecile.


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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:40 pm 
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green4life wrote:
marutimon wrote:
Yes, I'm talking about this season:
Gueye:
Whoscored rating 7,34
Tackles per game (PG): 4,5 (total 108 this season with some 6 games less than Kante, highest number of tackles this season in all of Europe's top leagues)
Dispossesed + unsuccessful touches per game: 2
Aerials won PG: 1,5
Interceptions PG: 2,5
Dribbles PG: 1,5
Average duels won: 53%

Kante:
Whoscored rating 7,27
Tackles per game (PG): 3,7
Dispossesed + unsuccessful touches per game: 2,2
Aerials won PG: 0,7
Interceptions PG: 2,4
Dribbles PG: 1,2
Average duels won: 42%
Responsible for one goal

The rest of the stats of Kante and Gueye are equal. Save for Gueye having slightly higher passing completion rates, but if you watch the players Gueye passes forward more, while Kante is a sideways passer.


Kante a sideways passer? Seriously? Anyway it doesn't matter. Gueye has great stats and fair play to him but the X-factor is why Kante gets all the well deserved praise: He was a massive piece of the Leicester City engine that powered them to win the league last year and this season he's pushed CFC from 10th last season to currently 1st with his all round performances. He's done it with a small team and now doing it at an ambitious club.


E be like sey that one pain you small... :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:


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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:12 pm 
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I put this argument up on my whatsapp group...people are asking who Gueye is and which club he plays for :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:22 pm 
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paj wrote:
I put this argument up on my whatsapp group...people are asking who Gueye is and which club he plays for :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Is that the group for the brainless drug abusers and you wonder why they ask? Go ahead ask them their names? I bet they're too stoned to remember :tic: :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Wanyama vs Kante.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:53 pm 
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green4life wrote:
Marutimon, sorry but you come across as someone who's jealous that Gueye is barely being mentioned in the same breath as Kante by pundits or what have you.


Actually Gueye is being mentioned a lot by pundits in categories such as:
- best buy of the season (a mere 7 mln)
- best midfielders in Europe and/or England
- best tackler in Europe
- best DM in Europe and/or England

And there have been a whole lot of comparisons made by pundits comparing Gueye to Kante. Also - unlike Ndidi or Wanyama - Gueye is essentially the same type of player as Kante.

Just put in "Gueye Kante" into google. You get a whole lot of people comparing Gueye to Kante, amongst them:
Steve Walsh (the guy who brought Kante to Leicester): When asked who could be the next Kante, Walsh told the Times: “I’ve already found him,” speaking of Gueye.

Quote:
A massive reason is due to the performance of Kante's current team. If they were languishing in 10th place or outside top 4, Kante wouldn't receive anywhere as much applause. Everton, on the other hand are exactly where they've always been: in and around the top 6 and most definitely out of the top 4. Whether they had Gueye or no Gueye there's no difference. You can usually guess where they will finish: anywhere between 7th up to 5th. So you tell me the impact of Gueye? Whereas Kante took a team, Leicester, that before the season started most bet that they would get relegated and won the league. He left and they slipped back into relegation zone. The current change in fortune is likely due to initial bump from a change in manager but we don't know how long it will last. But realistically, a good if not amazing season for Leicester is finishing as high as 8th or even 7th and wining a domestic cup. Not even close to Everton in any way - except for doing the unthinkable last season for which Kante can claim a massive role in ... something unfortunately that Gueye hasn't done. He couldn't even lead his country - star studded team and all - to win a nations cup when most of the ANC big dogs were in real crisis mode.


Again - blaiming an individual for the shortcomings of the team. Your argument is going around in circles: Gueye is not as good because his team and his team tactics aren't as good as Kante's.

Leicester slipped back into relegation zone, because Ranieri stopped playing his team like last season. Since Shakespeare took over, reverted the team back to last season's tactics and replaced Kante with Ndidi his record is surprisingly familiar to last season: four wins in a row, no losses, no draws, 11 goals scored. This includes wins over Sevilla, Liverpool and West Ham away.

All of a sudden Kante doesn't seem to be missing any more.


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