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When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:38 am
by ikemba_nacho
Now we have been having this debate for a while now and it seems that we are not the only ones. My view is to have maybe 3 or so of these kids at any one point in time as it lets them know we have them in our sights and to get a feel of the team and culture. If they are good enough, they can push for bench spots, I am not an expert, but at the least we would setting ourselves up nicely for the future.


Jürgen Klopp fumes at Chris Coleman over Ben Woodburn’s Wales call-up

Source: The Guardian Online

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... is-coleman

Jürgen Klopp has revealed his exasperation over Chris Coleman’s decision to call up Liverpool’s Ben Woodburn to the Wales squad.

The 17-year-old striker, who was an unused substitute at the Etihad Stadium on Sunday where Liverpool drew 1-1 with Manchester City, has played for the Wales’ Under-19s and was propelled into the senior squad by Coleman following only seven first-team appearances at club level.

Asked if he had spoken to Coleman about Woodburn’s call, Klopp said: “Actually, I was surprised about this. I don’t know exactly how it’s normal here. This should not be a criticism, but usually when you call up a player, a 17-year-old player, I thought it would be possible to call me.

“I’m not sure if he knows him well. He didn’t play in the team so far for Coleman I think. But no call.”

Woodburn, who became the club’s youngest goalscorer in November, has joined up with Coleman’s squad to begin preparations for Friday’s World Cup qualifier against the Republic of Ireland in Dublin but Klopp would have preferred the Nottingham-born player to stay at Liverpool to continue his development away from the spotlight.

“If he stopped learning now, that would make no sense at 17,” said Klopp. “I’m not in doubt about this. We didn’t hide him, we used him all the time. He’s a fixed part of our training. He can deal with the nomination for Wales 100%.

“It’s a little bit like my situation. As long as you give me the time, as long as we give him the time, everything will be good.

“He has to learn, he has to develop, he has to improve, all of this. That’s why I said there are now two managers responsible for him. Until now, it was only my job.”

Of Woodburn’s call-up, Coleman said: “If I thought it was too early for him I wouldn’t have called him up, because this game is massive for us. I am thinking about what is the best squad to get together to meet this next challenge. And Ben has done enough.

“As far as I see he is a Welsh international. He hasn’t played for England or Scotland. He’s played for Wales since a young boy, so it’s just that natural progression.”

The Liverpool captain, Jordan Henderson, meanwhile, has travelled with the squad for warm weather training in Tenerife but Daniel Sturridge has been left behind.

Klopp has taken all of his senior players not on international duty – such as James Milner, Dejan Lovren, Joël Matip, Loris Karius, Alberto Moreno and Lucas Leiva – to the Canary Islands for the week.

Henderson has been sidelined with a foot problem since the victory over Tottenham in February but Klopp expects him to be fit to return for the Merseyside derby at Anfield on 1 April.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:12 am
by felarey
I'll believe the kids are for Nigeria when they don the jersey. They are actively playing for England's youth teams yet we're asking for when we'll call them to SE. I'd say they are waiting for the England door to close first regardless of what they say or their family says.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:19 am
by ikemba_nacho
felarey wrote:I'll believe the kids are for Nigeria when they don the jersey. They are actively playing for England's youth teams yet we're asking for when we'll call them to SE. I'd say they are waiting for the England door to close first regardless of what they say or their family says.

Aside from the issue of who they will choose, up to them if they choose England or whomever, but Nwakali and Orji are ones that I would like to see invited as well, Ejaria was thrown in there because of the parallels with Woodburn.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:59 am
by felarey
ikemba_nacho wrote:
felarey wrote:I'll believe the kids are for Nigeria when they don the jersey. They are actively playing for England's youth teams yet we're asking for when we'll call them to SE. I'd say they are waiting for the England door to close first regardless of what they say or their family says.

Aside from the issue of who they will choose, up to them if they choose England or whomever, but Nwakali and Orji are ones that I would like to see invited as well, Ejaria was thrown in there because of the parallels with Woodburn.
Got it. Come to think of it, it hasn't really been our style to throw young players in the mix. Few exceptions like Iheanacho. We've tend to go as far as the NPL before inviting youth to SE. Dunno if Rohr will buck that trend.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:53 am
by EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA
NWAKALI has been very inconsistent so far in the Dutch 2nd div, there's no reason to invite him until he's able to perform consistently in the Dutch 2nd tier. The players above hm now will not be beaten out by NWAKALI'S performances so far.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:20 pm
by skillful
EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote:NWAKALI has been very inconsistent so far in the Dutch 2nd div, there's no reason to invite him until he's able to perform consistently in the Dutch 2nd tier. The players above hm now will not be beaten out by NWAKALI'S performances so far.
Bro are you sure the boy is automatic choice and has won how many MVP for his club

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:48 pm
by EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA
skillful wrote:
EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote:NWAKALI has been very inconsistent so far in the Dutch 2nd div, there's no reason to invite him until he's able to perform consistently in the Dutch 2nd tier. The players above hm now will not be beaten out by NWAKALI'S performances so far.
Bro are you sure the boy is automatic choice and has won how many MVP for his club
It's being MVP performance or hey you for him so far, a journalist that covers Arsenal recently said NWAKALI is behind 8 other youth/on loan players in the race to get a shot at making the main team next yr because of his inconsistency. I hope h s wrong but the boy need to be more consistent. Perhaps the fact that he plays different positions hasn't helped much.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:54 pm
by smartbrother
My view is if they were eligible to play for the Dream team and siasia didn't think them ready for the u23 then they are not ready for the se
This applies to nwakali and usimehn who siasia dropped for ajayi and umar
These guys have no business playing for se right now
Ejaria is a seperate case
He should be capped asap

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:03 pm
by papilo
skillful wrote:
EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote:NWAKALI has been very inconsistent so far in the Dutch 2nd div, there's no reason to invite him until he's able to perform consistently in the Dutch 2nd tier. The players above hm now will not be beaten out by NWAKALI'S performances so far.
Bro are you sure the boy is automatic choice and has won how many MVP for his club
He has been a regular and won a few player of the match awards but you need to see the quality of those games. I watch him play almost every weekend. The good thing though is that in as much as the standard of the games is really low, he tends to stand out always and games sometimes look too easy for him. He is a very good player no doubt and an emerging talent who will have a great future by God's grace but we should not rush him. The process with him should be gradual. Let's see how he copes in a stronger league or against stronger opposition.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:01 pm
by bully12
papilo wrote:
skillful wrote:
EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote:NWAKALI has been very inconsistent so far in the Dutch 2nd div, there's no reason to invite him until he's able to perform consistently in the Dutch 2nd tier. The players above hm now will not be beaten out by NWAKALI'S performances so far.
Bro are you sure the boy is automatic choice and has won how many MVP for his club
He has been a regular and won a few player of the match awards but you need to see the quality of those games. I watch him play almost every weekend. The good thing though is that in as much as the standard of the games is really low, he tends to stand out always and games sometimes look too easy for him. He is a very good player no doubt and an emerging talent who will have a great future by God's grace but we should not rush him. The process with him should be gradual. Let's see how he copes in a stronger league or against stronger opposition.
What I don't understand is why did Arsne Wenger loaned him to a second division club. He couldn't find any first division club in Belgium or Netherlands he could have loaned him to. Surely it doesn't make any sense to me for such an asinine decision. I don't envisage such a stupid decision helping the boy's growth but stunts his progress

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:24 pm
by papilo
bully12 wrote:
papilo wrote:
skillful wrote:
EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote:NWAKALI has been very inconsistent so far in the Dutch 2nd div, there's no reason to invite him until he's able to perform consistently in the Dutch 2nd tier. The players above hm now will not be beaten out by NWAKALI'S performances so far.
Bro are you sure the boy is automatic choice and has won how many MVP for his club
He has been a regular and won a few player of the match awards but you need to see the quality of those games. I watch him play almost every weekend. The good thing though is that in as much as the standard of the games is really low, he tends to stand out always and games sometimes look too easy for him. He is a very good player no doubt and an emerging talent who will have a great future by God's grace but we should not rush him. The process with him should be gradual. Let's see how he copes in a stronger league or against stronger opposition.
What I don't understand is why did Arsne Wenger loaned him to a second division club. He couldn't find any first division club in Belgium or Netherlands he could have loaned him to. Surely it doesn't make any sense to me for such an asinine decision. I don't envisage such a stupid decision helping the boy's growth but stunts his progress
I found it strange too to be honest. One positive though is that he is getting game time and his confidence is growing. He is their star man without a doubt and he, the club and the fans know this. Could work for him long term. If you compare what he is going through now with others like Taiwo Awoniyi and even his older brother Chidiebere who were also loaned out by massive premier league teams, one could argue it was the right move.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:57 pm
by ogasir
Ignore kongi, he does not know what he is talking about. Nwakali has been one of the most consistent performers for his team. A person who has been "very inconsistent" definitely won't be an automatic starter.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:21 am
by Gotti
felarey wrote:Got it. Come to think of it, it hasn't really been our style to throw young players in the mix. Few exceptions like Iheanacho. We've tend to go as far as the NPL before inviting youth to SE. Dunno if Rohr will buck that trend.
Not true...
Nigeria has regularly capped young players - Omeruo, Onazi, Lukman, Ahmed Musa, Kanu, etc.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:50 am
by The YeyeMan
Ejaria hasn't really done enough to merit a call up to the national team this season. Stopping England from capping him really isn't meritorious.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:23 pm
by oloye
Gotti wrote:
felarey wrote:Got it. Come to think of it, it hasn't really been our style to throw young players in the mix. Few exceptions like Iheanacho. We've tend to go as far as the NPL before inviting youth to SE. Dunno if Rohr will buck that trend.
Not true...
Nigeria has regularly capped young players - Omeruo, Onazi, Lukman, Ahmed Musa, Kanu, etc.
As far back as i can remember Nogeria played a certsin 16 year old Prince Afejukwu in the national team 78, followed with Sylvanus Okpalla, Henry Nwosu both 20years old at the ANC 80. I dont know where this false notion we do not play youth came from...if they are good enough they get picked..

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:43 pm
by txj
oloye wrote:
Gotti wrote:
felarey wrote:Got it. Come to think of it, it hasn't really been our style to throw young players in the mix. Few exceptions like Iheanacho. We've tend to go as far as the NPL before inviting youth to SE. Dunno if Rohr will buck that trend.
Not true...
Nigeria has regularly capped young players - Omeruo, Onazi, Lukman, Ahmed Musa, Kanu, etc.
As far back as i can remember Nogeria played a certsin 16 year old Prince Afejukwu in the national team 78, followed with Sylvanus Okpalla, Henry Nwosu both 20years old at the ANC 80. I dont know where this false notion we do not play youth came from...if they are good enough they get picked..

Not in recent times. The examples above by Gotti is inappropriate. Those were already established and not within the same frame as a Ben Woodburn or Ejaria as the op ed shows...

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:47 pm
by oloye
txj wrote:
oloye wrote:
Gotti wrote:
felarey wrote:Got it. Come to think of it, it hasn't really been our style to throw young players in the mix. Few exceptions like Iheanacho. We've tend to go as far as the NPL before inviting youth to SE. Dunno if Rohr will buck that trend.
Not true...
Nigeria has regularly capped young players - Omeruo, Onazi, Lukman, Ahmed Musa, Kanu, etc.
As far back as i can remember Nogeria played a certsin 16 year old Prince Afejukwu in the national team 78, followed with Sylvanus Okpalla, Henry Nwosu both 20years old at the ANC 80. I dont know where this false notion we do not play youth came from...if they are good enough they get picked..

Not in recent times. The examples above by Gotti is inappropriate. Those were already established and not within the same frame as a Ben Woodburn or Ejaria as the op ed shows...
So if i may ask on what basis should Ejaria be capped? That he has prospect and about to break into Liverpool team? I am at a loss here. I thought the main criteria for playing for the national team is what you have done and doing during the season whether you are young or old. How is Gotti's examples inappropriate?

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:15 pm
by Gotti
txj wrote:
oloye wrote:
Gotti wrote:
felarey wrote:Got it. Come to think of it, it hasn't really been our style to throw young players in the mix. Few exceptions like Iheanacho. We've tend to go as far as the NPL before inviting youth to SE. Dunno if Rohr will buck that trend.
Not true...
Nigeria has regularly capped young players - Omeruo, Onazi, Lukman, Ahmed Musa, Kanu, etc.
As far back as i can remember Nogeria played a certsin 16 year old Prince Afejukwu in the national team 78, followed with Sylvanus Okpalla, Henry Nwosu both 20years old at the ANC 80. I dont know where this false notion we do not play youth came from...if they are good enough they get picked..
Not in recent times. The examples above by Gotti is inappropriate. Those were already established and not within the same frame as a Ben Woodburn or Ejaria as the op ed shows...
What are you going on about? :shock:

Established?! Someone like Onazi had played a grand total of 4 Serie A games for Lazio (1 injury-time sub appearance in 2011/12 and 3 appearances in 2012/13) before his SE debut in November 2012 against Venezuela, with 1 additional Serie A game before playing a key role in the SE's 2013 ANC championship-winning campaign. Even Mikel, had played barely a couple of games at Lyn before his SE debut in August 2005 (v Libya), and about 5 or 6 total club appearances before playing for the SE at the 2006 ANC.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:00 pm
by felarey
oloye wrote:
Gotti wrote:
felarey wrote:Got it. Come to think of it, it hasn't really been our style to throw young players in the mix. Few exceptions like Iheanacho. We've tend to go as far as the NPL before inviting youth to SE. Dunno if Rohr will buck that trend.
Not true...
Nigeria has regularly capped young players - Omeruo, Onazi, Lukman, Ahmed Musa, Kanu, etc.
As far back as i can remember Nogeria played a certsin 16 year old Prince Afejukwu in the national team 78, followed with Sylvanus Okpalla, Henry Nwosu both 20years old at the ANC 80. I dont know where this false notion we do not play youth came from...if they are good enough they get picked..
I don' know how you guys read that as Nigeria doesn't invite young players to the SE. I even mentioned Iheanacho. My comment was in the context of the thread ala what Wales are doing with Woodburn. We tend to go for players that have achieved a certain experience and not just very talented. So we'll invite the best Nigerian midfielder in the NPL before a Nwakali who we let focus on U23, U20 etc. Think Mikel.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:05 pm
by felarey
oloye wrote:
txj wrote:
oloye wrote:
Gotti wrote:
felarey wrote:Got it. Come to think of it, it hasn't really been our style to throw young players in the mix. Few exceptions like Iheanacho. We've tend to go as far as the NPL before inviting youth to SE. Dunno if Rohr will buck that trend.
Not true...
Nigeria has regularly capped young players - Omeruo, Onazi, Lukman, Ahmed Musa, Kanu, etc.
As far back as i can remember Nogeria played a certsin 16 year old Prince Afejukwu in the national team 78, followed with Sylvanus Okpalla, Henry Nwosu both 20years old at the ANC 80. I dont know where this false notion we do not play youth came from...if they are good enough they get picked..

Not in recent times. The examples above by Gotti is inappropriate. Those were already established and not within the same frame as a Ben Woodburn or Ejaria as the op ed shows...
So if i may ask on what basis should Ejaria be capped? That he has prospect and about to break into Liverpool team? I am at a loss here. I thought the main criteria for playing for the national team is what you have done and doing during the season whether you are young or old. How is Gotti's examples inappropriate?
Oloye, you are making my point. We don't do 'too soon' regardless of how talented the player is.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:08 pm
by Gotti
felarey wrote:I don' know how you guys read that as Nigeria doesn't invite young players to the SE. I even mentioned Iheanacho. My comment was in the context of the thread ala what Wales are doing with Woodburn. We tend to go for players that have achieved a certain experience and not just very talented. So we'll invite the best Nigerian midfielder in the NPL before a Nwakali who we let focus on U23, U20 etc. Think Mikel.
Mikel made his SE debut in 2005 - same year as his U20 exploits...

Meanwhile, Taye Taiwo was invited to the SE in 2005 (WCQ v Zimbabwe) BEFORE he played for the U20 team and Ahmed Musa was simultaneously playing for BOTH the SE and the FE in the same year (2011). Accordingly, there's no such general "rule' regarding Nigeria's young players. Rather each is determined by individual circumstances.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:16 pm
by truetalk
txj wrote:
oloye wrote:
Gotti wrote:
felarey wrote:Got it. Come to think of it, it hasn't really been our style to throw young players in the mix. Few exceptions like Iheanacho. We've tend to go as far as the NPL before inviting youth to SE. Dunno if Rohr will buck that trend.
Not true...
Nigeria has regularly capped young players - Omeruo, Onazi, Lukman, Ahmed Musa, Kanu, etc.
As far back as i can remember Nogeria played a certsin 16 year old Prince Afejukwu in the national team 78, followed with Sylvanus Okpalla, Henry Nwosu both 20years old at the ANC 80. I dont know where this false notion we do not play youth came from...if they are good enough they get picked..

Not in recent times. The examples above by Gotti is inappropriate. Those were already established and not within the same frame as a Ben Woodburn or Ejaria as the op ed shows...
The National team has been littered with very young talent (21 years and under) in recent years. Nacho, Iwobi, Success, Amuzie, Alampasu, Moses Simon, Etebo have all been on the team within the last year or two.

Re: When is too soon! Ejaria, Nwakali et al......

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:20 pm
by truetalk
felarey wrote:
oloye wrote:
txj wrote:
oloye wrote:
Gotti wrote:
felarey wrote:Got it. Come to think of it, it hasn't really been our style to throw young players in the mix. Few exceptions like Iheanacho. We've tend to go as far as the NPL before inviting youth to SE. Dunno if Rohr will buck that trend.
Not true...
Nigeria has regularly capped young players - Omeruo, Onazi, Lukman, Ahmed Musa, Kanu, etc.
As far back as i can remember Nogeria played a certsin 16 year old Prince Afejukwu in the national team 78, followed with Sylvanus Okpalla, Henry Nwosu both 20years old at the ANC 80. I dont know where this false notion we do not play youth came from...if they are good enough they get picked..

Not in recent times. The examples above by Gotti is inappropriate. Those were already established and not within the same frame as a Ben Woodburn or Ejaria as the op ed shows...
So if i may ask on what basis should Ejaria be capped? That he has prospect and about to break into Liverpool team? I am at a loss here. I thought the main criteria for playing for the national team is what you have done and doing during the season whether you are young or old. How is Gotti's examples inappropriate?
Oloye, you are making my point. We don't do 'too soon' regardless of how talented the player is.
I disagree. No basis to cap Ejiara, unless we just want to capture him for the GWG. In Amuzie's case (another player who is not established at club level), the position is one where we lack depth in the SE.

Everyone on my list above (I'll add Tammy Abraham & remove Alampasu) has earned the callup and there was no age based discrimination.
truetalk wrote:
txj wrote:
oloye wrote:
Gotti wrote:
felarey wrote:Got it. Come to think of it, it hasn't really been our style to throw young players in the mix. Few exceptions like Iheanacho. We've tend to go as far as the NPL before inviting youth to SE. Dunno if Rohr will buck that trend.
Not true...
Nigeria has regularly capped young players - Omeruo, Onazi, Lukman, Ahmed Musa, Kanu, etc.
As far back as i can remember Nogeria played a certsin 16 year old Prince Afejukwu in the national team 78, followed with Sylvanus Okpalla, Henry Nwosu both 20years old at the ANC 80. I dont know where this false notion we do not play youth came from...if they are good enough they get picked..

Not in recent times. The examples above by Gotti is inappropriate. Those were already established and not within the same frame as a Ben Woodburn or Ejaria as the op ed shows...
The National team has been littered with very young talent (21 years and under) in recent years. Nacho, Iwobi, Success, Amuzie, Alampasu, Etebo have all been on the team within the last year or two.