Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

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Thank you Musa for your service; you deserve better treatment and respect. :idea:
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

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Rohr is the coach and will do what he feels is in the best interest of the team. Musa is a consummate professional and will adapt as necessary. If he is upset about the situation, they will work it out behind closed doors as it should be done.

My main annoyance is with the yahoos in these parts who do not give Musa the respect that he deserves for his efforts and exemplary commitment to the Super Eagles on and off the pitch. I mean; when someone says that he's not respected by the players as 1Naija said, that is one of several things that I have read on this thread that is utter garbage!
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by oloye »

danfo driver wrote:
oloye wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:Much ado about nothing. Not sure why Colin is getting excited over this. Musa would be a poor choice of captain IMO. His skills lie elsewhere.
Sometimes you guys have a oenchant for delibrately trying to reduce the important aspect of a message to nothing just because the person at the receiving end does not fall into certain criteria. The issue here is should Musa ,(i dont care what anyone thinks of his ability), the captain of the national, a player who makes no fuss about service, one who serves his country selflessly and dilligently, does he deserve to be humiliated.

If he raises a storm , people will call him names, je chooses to suffer in silence and his plight is picked up by another, we are being told it is much about nothing.

Sometimes cannot help bit wonder why we see things this way. A popular musician sang..Oun ti o da ko da( what is bad is bad). Is it right for him to be treated the way he was treated...that is the main issue.

The coach can always change his captain, no one was born with it, but it is never right to humiliate anyone, especially when such serves the nation dilligently as Musa.

He may not be a Finidi or Okocha, bit he has served the nation, scored crucial goals for nation. He did not make himself the captain nor did he become one through the side door, he was called to duty at a time no one was willing....thr simple matter Colins raised is...Musa does not deserve to be shabilly treated.

Now whether he deserves further invitation, whether he is headless chicken or not is immaterial.

I agree with you that no one deserves humiliation. However, I do not think i really understand the highlighted. How should Rohr have changed his captain without humiliating Musa? This is a truly honest question. Maybe I didnt read the stuff well, but what I read said Rohr chose two captains and Musa (who is the vice captain to Mikel last year) was not one of them. How would Rohr have done it so that Musa is not humiliated?
Are you asking this question simply because you want to? Captains can be changed without being humiliated, i cannot even believe am trying to answer this question. You may ask how can a captain be changed without the affected captain not neccesarilly being in agreement, or being happy with the decision.

But captains can be changed without the humiliation. Anyone who is in a camp made up of footballers know that captains can be changed due to many reasons. All the coach had to do was call him aside and let hin know his decision.

I knew you would not agree, as a matter of fact i was expecting you to challenge my position in the light of your views of Musa, my only surprise is that you are a mellow the way you have chosen to go about it.

Like i said oun ti o da ko da...does Musa or any human being who serves dilligently deserve to be treated shabilly? That is the moral issue to ponder over!
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

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oloye wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
oloye wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:Much ado about nothing. Not sure why Colin is getting excited over this. Musa would be a poor choice of captain IMO. His skills lie elsewhere.
Sometimes you guys have a oenchant for delibrately trying to reduce the important aspect of a message to nothing just because the person at the receiving end does not fall into certain criteria. The issue here is should Musa ,(i dont care what anyone thinks of his ability), the captain of the national, a player who makes no fuss about service, one who serves his country selflessly and dilligently, does he deserve to be humiliated.

If he raises a storm , people will call him names, je chooses to suffer in silence and his plight is picked up by another, we are being told it is much about nothing.

Sometimes cannot help bit wonder why we see things this way. A popular musician sang..Oun ti o da ko da( what is bad is bad). Is it right for him to be treated the way he was treated...that is the main issue.

The coach can always change his captain, no one was born with it, but it is never right to humiliate anyone, especially when such serves the nation dilligently as Musa.

He may not be a Finidi or Okocha, bit he has served the nation, scored crucial goals for nation. He did not make himself the captain nor did he become one through the side door, he was called to duty at a time no one was willing....thr simple matter Colins raised is...Musa does not deserve to be shabilly treated.

Now whether he deserves further invitation, whether he is headless chicken or not is immaterial.

I agree with you that no one deserves humiliation. However, I do not think i really understand the highlighted. How should Rohr have changed his captain without humiliating Musa? This is a truly honest question. Maybe I didnt read the stuff well, but what I read said Rohr chose two captains and Musa (who is the vice captain to Mikel last year) was not one of them. How would Rohr have done it so that Musa is not humiliated?
Are you asking this question simply because you want to? Captains can be changed without being humiliated, i cannot even believe am trying to answer this question. You may ask how can a captain be changed without the affected captain not neccesarilly being in agreement, or being happy with the decision.

But captains can be changed without the humiliation. Anyone who is in a camp made up of footballers know that captains can be changed due to many reasons. All the coach had to do was call him aside and let hin know his decision.

I knew you would not agree, as a matter of fact i was expecting you to challenge my position in the light of your views of Musa, my only surprise is that you are a mellow the way you have chosen to go about it.

Like i said oun ti o da ko da...does Musa or any human being who serves dilligently deserve to be treated shabilly? That is the moral issue to ponder over!
Oloye, I think you either misunderstood me, or perhaps I am not asking the question well.

So, Rohr decides he wants to change his captain and still wants to invite Musa. How would you suggest he changes his captain without humiliating Musa? I guess I just dont see the humiliation in what KOC wrote. When Oliseh did it, they said there was humiliation because he insulted Enyeama and they almost came to blows...etc...etc. So, I am trying to see the humiliation here, and also, how should he have done it to make sure there was no humiliation.

I am actually being serious and not trolling here. honestly, chief.
"it is better to be excited now and disappointed later, than it is to be disappointed now and later." - Marcus Aurelius, 178AD
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by oloye »

danfo driver wrote:
oloye wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
oloye wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:Much ado about nothing. Not sure why Colin is getting excited over this. Musa would be a poor choice of captain IMO. His skills lie elsewhere.
Sometimes you guys have a oenchant for delibrately trying to reduce the important aspect of a message to nothing just because the person at the receiving end does not fall into certain criteria. The issue here is should Musa ,(i dont care what anyone thinks of his ability), the captain of the national, a player who makes no fuss about service, one who serves his country selflessly and dilligently, does he deserve to be humiliated.

If he raises a storm , people will call him names, je chooses to suffer in silence and his plight is picked up by another, we are being told it is much about nothing.

Sometimes cannot help bit wonder why we see things this way. A popular musician sang..Oun ti o da ko da( what is bad is bad). Is it right for him to be treated the way he was treated...that is the main issue.

The coach can always change his captain, no one was born with it, but it is never right to humiliate anyone, especially when such serves the nation dilligently as Musa.

He may not be a Finidi or Okocha, bit he has served the nation, scored crucial goals for nation. He did not make himself the captain nor did he become one through the side door, he was called to duty at a time no one was willing....thr simple matter Colins raised is...Musa does not deserve to be shabilly treated.

Now whether he deserves further invitation, whether he is headless chicken or not is immaterial.

I agree with you that no one deserves humiliation. However, I do not think i really understand the highlighted. How should Rohr have changed his captain without humiliating Musa? This is a truly honest question. Maybe I didnt read the stuff well, but what I read said Rohr chose two captains and Musa (who is the vice captain to Mikel last year) was not one of them. How would Rohr have done it so that Musa is not humiliated?
Are you asking this question simply because you want to? Captains can be changed without being humiliated, i cannot even believe am trying to answer this question. You may ask how can a captain be changed without the affected captain not neccesarilly being in agreement, or being happy with the decision.

But captains can be changed without the humiliation. Anyone who is in a camp made up of footballers know that captains can be changed due to many reasons. All the coach had to do was call him aside and let hin know his decision.

I knew you would not agree, as a matter of fact i was expecting you to challenge my position in the light of your views of Musa, my only surprise is that you are a mellow the way you have chosen to go about it.

Like i said oun ti o da ko da...does Musa or any human being who serves dilligently deserve to be treated shabilly? That is the moral issue to ponder over!
Oloye, I think you either misunderstood me, or perhaps I am not asking the question well.

So, Rohr decides he wants to change his captain and still wants to invite Musa. How would you suggest he changes his captain without humiliating Musa? I guess I just dont see the humiliation in what KOC wrote. When Oliseh did it, they said there was humiliation because he insulted Enyeama and they almost came to blows...etc...etc. So, I am trying to see the humiliation here, and also, how should he have done it to make sure there was no humiliation.

I am actually being serious and not trolling here. honestly, chief.
Like everything that has to do with change, humans generally would not initially like it. It is a known fact that we resent change, so yes i would not debate against the fact that there might not be a way to effect a change in a way that Musa would love.

Now i am not aware if Rohr spoke to Musa , but the story told by Colin is that right.from.the day.players started.reporting in camp, Musa carried out the role of the captain. Now i want you to know that this is a clearly visible role, one where all the players would acknowledge and defer to you as such. In my short time with the eagles, we would meetings in the skippers room, we would refer to him as skippo in the camp and information at times from the officials would flow down through him.

It is with this expectation that the individual would conduct himself and yes even prepare for a match, then on a match day he is told to hand over the band. The crushing part is the fact that he started the match, so in his mind the question would arise...what is going on here?

Nothing stops the coach from calling Musa aside and say to him look Musa, i am going to make changes here. I always say that this eliminates room for human minds to run riot. Because the truth is ,the coach has every right to make such changes.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by Cally »

I stand with Colin and Oloye on this. Respect for the individual is just so important in anything we do. And it is reciprocal. Musa has served our country well. Let's try and appreciate our Patriots more than we do. It's cultural with most Nigerians to start disrespecting our players once they start getting on in age.

In any case, thank you, Ahmed Musa, for your service through the years. May God bless you and your family. If you choose to retire at this point, we appreciate you.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by danfo driver »

oloye wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
oloye wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
oloye wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:Much ado about nothing. Not sure why Colin is getting excited over this. Musa would be a poor choice of captain IMO. His skills lie elsewhere.
Sometimes you guys have a oenchant for delibrately trying to reduce the important aspect of a message to nothing just because the person at the receiving end does not fall into certain criteria. The issue here is should Musa ,(i dont care what anyone thinks of his ability), the captain of the national, a player who makes no fuss about service, one who serves his country selflessly and dilligently, does he deserve to be humiliated.

If he raises a storm , people will call him names, je chooses to suffer in silence and his plight is picked up by another, we are being told it is much about nothing.

Sometimes cannot help bit wonder why we see things this way. A popular musician sang..Oun ti o da ko da( what is bad is bad). Is it right for him to be treated the way he was treated...that is the main issue.

The coach can always change his captain, no one was born with it, but it is never right to humiliate anyone, especially when such serves the nation dilligently as Musa.

He may not be a Finidi or Okocha, bit he has served the nation, scored crucial goals for nation. He did not make himself the captain nor did he become one through the side door, he was called to duty at a time no one was willing....thr simple matter Colins raised is...Musa does not deserve to be shabilly treated.

Now whether he deserves further invitation, whether he is headless chicken or not is immaterial.

I agree with you that no one deserves humiliation. However, I do not think i really understand the highlighted. How should Rohr have changed his captain without humiliating Musa? This is a truly honest question. Maybe I didnt read the stuff well, but what I read said Rohr chose two captains and Musa (who is the vice captain to Mikel last year) was not one of them. How would Rohr have done it so that Musa is not humiliated?
Are you asking this question simply because you want to? Captains can be changed without being humiliated, i cannot even believe am trying to answer this question. You may ask how can a captain be changed without the affected captain not neccesarilly being in agreement, or being happy with the decision.

But captains can be changed without the humiliation. Anyone who is in a camp made up of footballers know that captains can be changed due to many reasons. All the coach had to do was call him aside and let hin know his decision.

I knew you would not agree, as a matter of fact i was expecting you to challenge my position in the light of your views of Musa, my only surprise is that you are a mellow the way you have chosen to go about it.

Like i said oun ti o da ko da...does Musa or any human being who serves dilligently deserve to be treated shabilly? That is the moral issue to ponder over!
Oloye, I think you either misunderstood me, or perhaps I am not asking the question well.

So, Rohr decides he wants to change his captain and still wants to invite Musa. How would you suggest he changes his captain without humiliating Musa? I guess I just dont see the humiliation in what KOC wrote. When Oliseh did it, they said there was humiliation because he insulted Enyeama and they almost came to blows...etc...etc. So, I am trying to see the humiliation here, and also, how should he have done it to make sure there was no humiliation.

I am actually being serious and not trolling here. honestly, chief.
Like everything that has to do with change, humans generally would not initially like it. It is a known fact that we resent change, so yes i would not debate against the fact that there might not be a way to effect a change in a way that Musa would love.

Now i am not aware if Rohr spoke to Musa , but the story told by Colin is that right.from.the day.players started.reporting in camp, Musa carried out the role of the captain. Now i want you to know that this is a clearly visible role, one where all the players would acknowledge and defer to you as such. In my short time with the eagles, we would meetings in the skippers room, we would refer to him as skippo in the camp and information at times from the officials would flow down through him.

It is with this expectation that the individual would conduct himself and yes even prepare for a match, then on a match day he is told to hand over the band. The crushing part is the fact that he started the match, so in his mind the question would arise...what is going on here?

Nothing stops the coach from calling Musa aside and say to him look Musa, i am going to make changes here. I always say that this eliminates room for human minds to run riot. Because the truth is ,the coach has every right to make such changes.

Thanks for your explanation.


is it possible that:

1. Rohr called Musa and spoke to him?

2. is it possible that Rohr made his decision after looking at Musa in camp (i believe this is the first time Mikel was not present) and realized "OMG!!!! This guy cant be my captain and then spoke to Musa. Because it could be that Rohr always intended to keep Musa as captain, but after looking at Musa throughout the camp period realized that he is not captain material?

3. I concede that it is also possible that Rohr made up his mind on Musa long ago and forgot to inform Musa until the last minute --which is not good. But truth be told, none of u know the truth. only Rohr knows... not even Musa, who must have told KOC or KOC's other source
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by Gotti »

Cally wrote:I stand with Colin and Oloye on this. Respect for the individual is just so important in anything we do. And it is reciprocal. Musa has served our country well. Let's try and appreciate our Patriots more than we do. It's cultural with most Nigerians to start disrespecting our players once they start getting on in age.

In any case, thank you, Ahmed Musa, for your service through the years. May God bless you and your family. If you choose to retire at this point, we appreciate you.
So 24-year-old Musa is now "getting on in age"? What I you trying to tell us... :D

Dude, perhaps you are one of those INDIVIDUALS who "start disrespecting our players once they start getting on in age" because the CULTURE of Nigerians that I am aware neither disrespects folks getting on in age (for better or for worse - because sometimes they deserve disrespect) nor our players in general - don't recall any cultural Nigerian disrespect towards the likes of Yekini, Kanu, Okocha, Keshi, etc, as they played into their 30s (well above Musa's 24 years).

Oloye's point is well-taken, but much of the discourse here is based on speculation and conjecture, as NONE of us were personally privy to how Rohr communicated the issue to either Musa or the team. The undisputed facts are that both Musa and Onazi were made vice-captains last year when Mikel was elevated to the captaincy. Perhaps Rohr made a mistake in electing which vice steps in and should make amends with Musa, but no need to make a federal case out of it.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by The YeyeMan »

As I said, much ado about nothing. And I say that as someone who appreciates Musa's footballing talents.

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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by danfo driver »

I wonder why Obong Itatex and 1Naija havent shown up to weep and wail on this thread! When it was their towns man who was at the receiving end, they were doing "jaskelebe!" But now its a northern native, so wetin concern them. When I said these two, especially Obong, only show up to push south south agenda, una think sey I dey joke. smh..
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by Cally »

Gotti wrote:
Cally wrote:I stand with Colin and Oloye on this. Respect for the individual is just so important in anything we do. And it is reciprocal. Musa has served our country well. Let's try and appreciate our Patriots more than we do. It's cultural with most Nigerians to start disrespecting our players once they start getting on in age.

In any case, thank you, Ahmed Musa, for your service through the years. May God bless you and your family. If you choose to retire at this point, we appreciate you.
So 24-year-old Musa is now "getting on in age"? What I you trying to tell us... :D

Dude, perhaps you are one of those INDIVIDUALS who "start disrespecting our players once they start getting on in age" because the CULTURE of Nigerians that I am aware neither disrespects folks getting on in age (for better or for worse - because sometimes they deserve disrespect) nor our players in general - don't recall any cultural Nigerian disrespect towards the likes of Yekini, Kanu, Okocha, Keshi, etc, as they played into their 30s (well above Musa's 24 years).

Oloye's point is well-taken, but much of the discourse here is based on speculation and conjecture, as NONE of us were personally privy to how Rohr communicated the issue to either Musa or the team. The undisputed facts are that both Musa and Onazi were made vice-captains last year when Mikel was elevated to the captaincy. Perhaps Rohr made a mistake in electing which vice steps in and should make amends with Musa, but no need to make a federal case out of it.
Gotti, by getting on in age, I mean that Ahmed has played for so many years, and is clearly a veteran in the current dispensation. There was disrespect to Kanu, Okocha, and Enyeama recently. If you don't recall, I do. My comment isn't mainly directed at Rohr, but at fellow Nigerians in general.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by 1naija »

danfo driver wrote:I wonder why Obong Itatex and 1Naija havent shown up to weep and wail on this thread! When it was their towns man who was at the receiving end, they were doing "jaskelebe!" But now its a northern native, so wetin concern them. When I said these two, especially Obong, only show up to push south south agenda, una think sey I dey joke. smh..
1naija must be from every town in the South. Maybe you should drive your bus to the south so you can see that there is more than one "town" there.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by papilo »

I don't see anything wrong with this decision to be honest. Being captain should not be based on the longest serving player alone. We all love and respect Musa for who he is mostly as a person off the pitch. He does not look like a trouble maker and he is well respected by his teammates. He does not need the captain's arm band for this.

When a new coach comes in, he is allowed to choose whoever he wants as captain and vice captain. This happens all the time around the world. I do not believe one bit that Musa feels a certain way about this. Even when he was stripped earlier, his press conference showed nothing of the sort.

Things are going really well right now. The spirit is high in camp and everyone seems to want to be a part of the team. I even heard Aina has finally agreed to play for us. No need for unnecessary distractions right now.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by Enugu II »

papilo wrote:I don't see anything wrong with this decision to be honest. Being captain should not be based on the longest serving player alone. We all love and respect Musa for who he is mostly as a person off the pitch. He does not look like a trouble maker and he is well respected by his teammates. He does not need the captain's arm band for this.

When a new coach comes in, he is allowed to choose whoever he wants as captain and vice captain. This happens all the time around the world. I do not believe one bit that Musa feels a certain way about this. Even when he was stripped earlier, his press conference showed nothing of the sort.

Things are going really well right now. The spirit is high in camp and everyone seems to want to be a part of the team. I even heard Aina has finally agreed to play for us. No need for unnecessary distractions right now.
Papilo,

Unfortunately, a press conference does not tell exactly how a person feels. It is public and people put up a public face. The reality's of how a person feels is usually away from prying cameras. Please see report below.
Musa Kicks as Rohr Picks Onazi as Eagles Captain
Posted on March 23, 2017 by Newswatchnigeria
http://www.newswatchnigeria.com/musa-ki ... s-captain/

Turkey-based midfielder Ogenyi Onazi will lead the Super Eagles in tonight’s friendly against Senegal in London.

The Super Eagles Coach Gernot Rohr decided to pick Onazi to replace Chinese based Mikel Obi who is not available for the friendly due to club assignment.

The coach’s decision was received with a reaction from Leicester City forward Ahmed Musa who has since announced to his fellow Super Eagles stars that he will no longer be the team’s assistant captain,

The team’s assistant captain do stand in when the captain is indisposed.

A top source said, “Musa told his teammates after the pre-match meeting he will no longer be assistant captain of the national team.”

It may well not be unconnected with the decision of coach Gernot Rohr to go with Onazi as captain for tonight’s clash at the Hive Stadium.

The former CSKA Moscow star was appointed captain by coach Sunday Oliseh in 2015 after Vincent Enyeama quit international duty.

However, coach Samson Siasia then push the 23-year-old forward to surrender the captain’s armband to a more senior colleague, Mikel Obi, who was overlooked by Oliseh.

At a time critics argue that the captaincy affected his own contribution to the Eagles.

Mikel is the Eagles skipper, but he has been excused by the team for the London friendlies so as to settle in quickly at his new Chinese club.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by papilo »

Enugu II wrote:
papilo wrote:I don't see anything wrong with this decision to be honest. Being captain should not be based on the longest serving player alone. We all love and respect Musa for who he is mostly as a person off the pitch. He does not look like a trouble maker and he is well respected by his teammates. He does not need the captain's arm band for this.

When a new coach comes in, he is allowed to choose whoever he wants as captain and vice captain. This happens all the time around the world. I do not believe one bit that Musa feels a certain way about this. Even when he was stripped earlier, his press conference showed nothing of the sort.

Things are going really well right now. The spirit is high in camp and everyone seems to want to be a part of the team. I even heard Aina has finally agreed to play for us. No need for unnecessary distractions right now.
Papilo,

Unfortunately, a press conference does not tell exactly how a person feels. It is public and people put up a public face. The reality's of how a person feels is usually away from prying cameras.
True but how do journalists and reporters know that he is 'kicking'? He said something else in the press conference and called each one of them to the side to tell them something different? Usually when a press conference is held, especially in this context, it is usually to clarify certain things and should be the end of the matter. No human being is happy being demoted or stripped of a leadership position. That is normal. My point is he seems to have accepted it and stories of him wanting to retire or a lack of respect from the coach don't sound true to me. I was not there but I am sure he and Rohr had a conversation about this. Someone else was stripped recently and we all know how that went down. I believe everyone involved has handled this matter very well. We should not blow things out of proportion.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by Enugu II »

papilo wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
papilo wrote:I don't see anything wrong with this decision to be honest. Being captain should not be based on the longest serving player alone. We all love and respect Musa for who he is mostly as a person off the pitch. He does not look like a trouble maker and he is well respected by his teammates. He does not need the captain's arm band for this.

When a new coach comes in, he is allowed to choose whoever he wants as captain and vice captain. This happens all the time around the world. I do not believe one bit that Musa feels a certain way about this. Even when he was stripped earlier, his press conference showed nothing of the sort.

Things are going really well right now. The spirit is high in camp and everyone seems to want to be a part of the team. I even heard Aina has finally agreed to play for us. No need for unnecessary distractions right now.
Papilo,

Unfortunately, a press conference does not tell exactly how a person feels. It is public and people put up a public face. The reality's of how a person feels is usually away from prying cameras.
True but how do journalists and reporters know that he is 'kicking'? He said something else in the press conference and called each one of them to the side to tell them something different? Usually when a press conference is held, especially in this context, it is usually to clarify certain things and should be the end of the matter. No human being is happy being demoted or stripped of a leadership position. That is normal. My point is he seems to have accepted it and stories of him wanting to retire or a lack of respect from the coach don't sound true to me. I was not there but I am sure he and Rohr had a conversation about this. Someone else was stripped recently and we all know how that went down. I believe everyone involved has handled this matter very well. We should not blow things out of proportion.
Papilo,

Here is the chronology of events:

1. Prior to Oliseh's arrival, Enyeama was team captain but was removed after a spat with the coach. Ordinarily, longevity on the NT is used for SE captainship (Note JJ's earlier displeasure with this when Kanu was named ahead of him). Because of this team culture, it was expected that Mikel was to be named captain but instead Mikel declined because of his perception of how Enyeama was treated. As we now know, Musa stepped up as one of the senior players.

2. After Oliseh's departure, Siasia restored order by talking with Musa and naming Mikel as coach. Here, some players in Musa's shoes may have been upset but Musa, from all accounts, is an agreeable personality. That does not mean he is emotionless but it means he would likely share those emotions behind closed doors and not publicly (unlike say Osaze who likely would have publicly exploded. It is simply a personality difference).

3. Rohr arrived announcing that he will maintain that order of captainship. Presumably, Mikel as captain and Musa as assistant.

4. In the London friendlies and in the absence of Mikel, many expected Musa to act as captain.

5. Rohr reportedly met with Musa to let him know that he would not have a captain who does not start and for the Senegal game that Onazi will captain and in the Burkina game it will be Elderson. Note that both players (onazi & Elderson) are also veterans) which points to the fact that Rohr may not be opposed to the ongoing culture and that his only change was not to have a non-starting captain.

6. Then Rohr names Musa as one of the starters in the Senegal game but Onazi as captain. Bros, think about you being in Musa's shoes. Yes, he did not explode in a press conference because of his personality. However, what he did next should have given you a clue exactly how he feels. It isn't rocket science. He reportedly talks to his colleagues and tells them that he does not have anything to do with captainship. That certainly is more likely than not a response to the slight of not naming him captain in a game that he was to start and in Mikel's absence. That should be a logical conclusion if there is ever one.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by papilo »

Enugu II wrote:
papilo wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
papilo wrote:I don't see anything wrong with this decision to be honest. Being captain should not be based on the longest serving player alone. We all love and respect Musa for who he is mostly as a person off the pitch. He does not look like a trouble maker and he is well respected by his teammates. He does not need the captain's arm band for this.

When a new coach comes in, he is allowed to choose whoever he wants as captain and vice captain. This happens all the time around the world. I do not believe one bit that Musa feels a certain way about this. Even when he was stripped earlier, his press conference showed nothing of the sort.

Things are going really well right now. The spirit is high in camp and everyone seems to want to be a part of the team. I even heard Aina has finally agreed to play for us. No need for unnecessary distractions right now.
Papilo,

Unfortunately, a press conference does not tell exactly how a person feels. It is public and people put up a public face. The reality's of how a person feels is usually away from prying cameras.
True but how do journalists and reporters know that he is 'kicking'? He said something else in the press conference and called each one of them to the side to tell them something different? Usually when a press conference is held, especially in this context, it is usually to clarify certain things and should be the end of the matter. No human being is happy being demoted or stripped of a leadership position. That is normal. My point is he seems to have accepted it and stories of him wanting to retire or a lack of respect from the coach don't sound true to me. I was not there but I am sure he and Rohr had a conversation about this. Someone else was stripped recently and we all know how that went down. I believe everyone involved has handled this matter very well. We should not blow things out of proportion.
Papilo,

Here is the chronology of events:

1. Prior to Oliseh's arrival, Enyeama was team captain but was removed after a spat with the coach. Ordinarily, longevity on the NT is used for SE captainship (Note JJ's earlier displeasure with this when Kanu was named ahead of him). Because of this team culture, it was expected that Mikel was to be named captain but instead Mikel declined because of his perception of how Enyeama was treated. As we now know, Musa stepped up as one of the senior players.

2. After Oliseh's departure, Siasia restored order by talking with Musa and naming Mikel as coach. Here, some players in Musa's shoes may have been upset but Musa, from all accounts, is an agreeable personality. That does not mean he is emotionless but it means he would likely share those emotions behind closed doors and not publicly (unlike say Osaze who likely would have publicly exploded. It is simply a personality difference).

3. Rohr arrived announcing that he will maintain that order of captainship. Presumably, Mikel as captain and Musa as assistant.

4. In the London friendlies and in the absence of Mikel, many expected Musa to act as captain.

5. Rohr reportedly met with Musa to let him know that he would not have a captain who does not start and for the Senegal game that Onazi will captain and in the Burkina game it will be Elderson. Note that both players (onazi & Elderson) are also veterans) which points to the fact that Rohr may not be opposed to the ongoing culture and that his only change was not to have a non-starting captain.

6. Then Rohr names Musa as one of the starters in the Senegal game but Onazi as captain. Bros, think about you being in Musa's shoes. Yes, he did not explode in a press conference because of his personality. However, what he did next should have given you a clue exactly how he feels. It isn't rocket science. He reportedly talks to his colleagues and tells them that he does not have anything to do with captainship. That certainly is more likely than not a response to the slight of not naming him captain in a game that he was to start and in Mikel's absence. That should be a logical conclusion if there is ever one.
I thought stripping Enyeama of the captaincy was what led to the spat. At least that was what Enyeama said. Oliseh also said he made the decision because after talking to Enyeama a few times, all he kept talking about was retirement and since he was not sure of his availability, he made the decision to make Musa captain without informing Enyeama.

Also, what exactly did Musa do next? Nothing coming out from camp shows what is being insinuated.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by Enugu II »

papilo wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
papilo wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
papilo wrote:I don't see anything wrong with this decision to be honest. Being captain should not be based on the longest serving player alone. We all love and respect Musa for who he is mostly as a person off the pitch. He does not look like a trouble maker and he is well respected by his teammates. He does not need the captain's arm band for this.

When a new coach comes in, he is allowed to choose whoever he wants as captain and vice captain. This happens all the time around the world. I do not believe one bit that Musa feels a certain way about this. Even when he was stripped earlier, his press conference showed nothing of the sort.

Things are going really well right now. The spirit is high in camp and everyone seems to want to be a part of the team. I even heard Aina has finally agreed to play for us. No need for unnecessary distractions right now.
Papilo,

Unfortunately, a press conference does not tell exactly how a person feels. It is public and people put up a public face. The reality's of how a person feels is usually away from prying cameras.
True but how do journalists and reporters know that he is 'kicking'? He said something else in the press conference and called each one of them to the side to tell them something different? Usually when a press conference is held, especially in this context, it is usually to clarify certain things and should be the end of the matter. No human being is happy being demoted or stripped of a leadership position. That is normal. My point is he seems to have accepted it and stories of him wanting to retire or a lack of respect from the coach don't sound true to me. I was not there but I am sure he and Rohr had a conversation about this. Someone else was stripped recently and we all know how that went down. I believe everyone involved has handled this matter very well. We should not blow things out of proportion.
Papilo,

Here is the chronology of events:

1. Prior to Oliseh's arrival, Enyeama was team captain but was removed after a spat with the coach. Ordinarily, longevity on the NT is used for SE captainship (Note JJ's earlier displeasure with this when Kanu was named ahead of him). Because of this team culture, it was expected that Mikel was to be named captain but instead Mikel declined because of his perception of how Enyeama was treated. As we now know, Musa stepped up as one of the senior players.

2. After Oliseh's departure, Siasia restored order by talking with Musa and naming Mikel as coach. Here, some players in Musa's shoes may have been upset but Musa, from all accounts, is an agreeable personality. That does not mean he is emotionless but it means he would likely share those emotions behind closed doors and not publicly (unlike say Osaze who likely would have publicly exploded. It is simply a personality difference).

3. Rohr arrived announcing that he will maintain that order of captainship. Presumably, Mikel as captain and Musa as assistant.

4. In the London friendlies and in the absence of Mikel, many expected Musa to act as captain.

5. Rohr reportedly met with Musa to let him know that he would not have a captain who does not start and for the Senegal game that Onazi will captain and in the Burkina game it will be Elderson. Note that both players (onazi & Elderson) are also veterans) which points to the fact that Rohr may not be opposed to the ongoing culture and that his only change was not to have a non-starting captain.

6. Then Rohr names Musa as one of the starters in the Senegal game but Onazi as captain. Bros, think about you being in Musa's shoes. Yes, he did not explode in a press conference because of his personality. However, what he did next should have given you a clue exactly how he feels. It isn't rocket science. He reportedly talks to his colleagues and tells them that he does not have anything to do with captainship. That certainly is more likely than not a response to the slight of not naming him captain in a game that he was to start and in Mikel's absence. That should be a logical conclusion if there is ever one.
I thought stripping Enyeama of the captaincy was what led to the spat. At least that was what Enyeama said. Oliseh also said he made the decision because after talking to Enyeama a few times, all he kept talking about was retirement and since he was not sure of his availability, he made the decision to make Musa captain without informing Enyeama.

Also, what exactly did Musa do next? Nothing coming out from camp shows what is being insinuated.
Papilo,

Time has certainly past but we should not forget. Oilseh's spat with senior players began before the official stripping of captainship from Enyeama. Recall that Oliseh's first game was v Tanzania. Enyeama was absent because of the passing of his mother and then a back and forth between Oliseh and Enyeama over whether Oliseh was duly informed. Just to add, note that Oliseh had also (surprising) left out Mikel from players invited for that critical game in September of 2015. Enyeama was officially stripped of captainship a month later as the team prepared for a friendly against Congo DR. Thus, the spat occurred before the stripping but Enyeama left the team for good after the stripping.

What Musa did next is mentioned in the media story cited above and also mentioned by Colin Udoh in his piece. Those are stories that came from the camp and reported by different media.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by mystic »

E11,

If Musa is not upset about the situation, he wouldn't be human. However the question is whether we need to make a federal case out of this; whether we need to be crying more than the bereaved. Rohr for whatever reason has taken his decision and Musa from what Colin's report suggests is not pleased with it, but has handled the whole thing professionally.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by Enugu II »

mystic wrote:E11,

If Musa is not upset about the situation, he wouldn't be human. However the question is whether we need to make a federal case out of this; whether we need to be crying more than the bereaved. Rohr for whatever reason has taken his decision and Musa from what Colin's report suggests is not pleased with it, but has handled the whole thing professionally.
Mystic,

I agree with Musa being upset. It will be unusual not to expect him to be otherwise.

As for Udoh's piece, I think it is an important one and I will not characterize it or comments that follow it as crying more than the bereaved. Musa is a public figure and the public needs to know exactly what is going on as long as there are no privacy violations. I do not believe such violations occur here. When presented to the public, the issue will be debated just like other topics, even those that are far more trivial. IMO, I find nothing amiss in the discourse or the opinions shared on both sides. I find those to be well within the ambit of discourse expected on this issue. There should neither be fettered or muted.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by 1naija »

My question again is, if everyone agrees that it's the coach's prerogative who he selects as his captain or vice captain, how would he have selected someone else so Musa won't feel humiliated?

Contrary to some here I think Musa is a good player and brings a lot of pace to the team, but he has never come off as a leader. So I am not sure why people are wanting the captains armband forced on him.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by mcal »

...he that speaks, screams loudest, is generally made the captain by most coaches. Musa is a quiet guy, For me, I don't care as long as I am on the team and play.
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Re: Rohr's Decision on Musa and Captainship....

Post by danfo driver »

1naija wrote:My question again is, if everyone agrees that it's the coach's prerogative who he selects as his captain or vice captain, how would he have selected someone else so Musa won't feel humiliated?

Contrary to some here I think Musa is a good player and brings a lot of pace to the team, but he has never come off as a leader. So I am not sure why people are wanting the captains armband forced on him.
I asked Oloye the same question, and his explanation did not satisfy my question.
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