Ola Aina Trains with Super Eagles

[Chriskendo43]

[Gotti]

I'm not trying to denigrate the dead or Keshi . Of all the foreign born players Keshii invited is any of them worth the salt? I don't have any incontrovertible fact to my claim I believe there was some kind of pecuniary inducements that prompted their invitations. There is not iota doubt about it some irreparable damage was inflicted on SE during Keshi's era.

So Victor Moses, Loen Balogun and Troost-Ekong are "not worth the salt"? SMDH@

[Gotti]

Gotti, you are still going on about this in 2017! I am only contributing what I know to the forum. The drive to get Nigerian born kids especially those in the UK started under Maigari with Siasia holding camps in London for the players to attend (There was a thread on this). I am also aware that some of these boys were flown to Abuja and taken to the National Stadium to get the Nigerian feel. The project stalled under Keshi because he preferred to look inwards i.e. local league. So where am I now hounding Keshi in death? Please keep your emotions out of the debate. Whether you believe it or not, there was a blueprint and Pinnick just keyed into it.

For the umpteenth time, Nigeria has almost ALWAYS sought to bring in foreign-born (or bred) Nigerian players - even the much-maligned Shola Amoebi was being pursued as far back as 12-13 years before he finally donned an SE shirt (unfortunately at the twilight of his career), while someone like d#$% Etuhu was courted for about 5 years (starting from the pre-WC 2002 camp) before finally making his SE debut in 2007. The likes of Ugo Ehiogu, Denis Aogo and Patrick Owomoyela (whom reportedly made it all the was to the Nigerian Embassy in Berlin for a passport) were all actively and repeatedly pursued - and each BEFORE Maigari's tenure.

And while some AGENT (or agents) organized a "camp" (frankly more like kick-about sessions) to market mainly lower-tier league players - leading, among other things, to one dude in the NINTH-tier of English football being invited to the Olympic team camp - that does not amount to a "blueprint" (and of course it has since been discontinued - likely because the pecuniary returns to the agents did not justify their investment). Meanwhile, as far as we are aware, Chuba Iwobi personally brought his son (and not for the first time of visiting Nigeria) to Abuja, while Ovie Ejaria (and another kid whose name presently escapes me) paid their own way to Abuja in 2012 for the 2013 U17 Eaglets camp.

[ohenhen1]

Rohr needs to watch Stephen Odey, he's the real deal.

He is not ready for the SE. CHAN eagles is a good test for him. Rohr should watch Chisom Chikatara in Morocco.

[deanotito]

If the English ever get their act together about these dual nationals, we'd be done on that front.

What of if Nigeria gets her act together. Then what?

In this game of dual nationals, we are at a severe disadvantage. I commend Rohr and Pinnick for trying to level the playing field, but make no mistake, we succeed because England has no strategy for this issue. If I ran the English FA, the likes of Vic Mo would have been given competitive international minutes as teenagers...just to burn their chances of picking another country. 1 minute is enough. They don't need to play the whole game.

These boys, for all practical purposes, are British. That's their country ...on average, they've probably spent less than a month in Nigeria over their lives. At 18-23, they're unlikely to have any cultural fondness for the country of their parents' birth. The only reason they give us a chance is because we give them a 30-50% chance (let's say) at playing in the World Cup, whereas with England (agbonlahor, amoebi etc), it's virtually 0%.

[Chimex101]

Deanotito, truth is...this English born Naija kids have a far better chance of winning more trophies with Nigeria than England...I get the feeling many of them are realizing this now and are thus opting for Nigeria, plus the fact that apart from Dele Alli...how many British-Nigerian kids ever have a successful international career with the three lions? Can't think of any who ever did.

[deanotito]

Deanotito, truth is...this English born Naija kids have a far better chance of winning more trophies with Nigeria than England...I get the feeling many of them are realizing this now and are thus opting for Nigeria, plus the fact that apart from Dele Alli...how many British-Nigerian kids ever have a successful international career with the three lions? Can't think of any who ever did.

I agree with you, but when you're 18-23, you would not necessarily know that. If Nigeria never came calling, Ola Aina would never contact Nigeria. He'd keep performing for his club hoping that one day, he'll get his England call up. Ameobi did that until he was geriatric .... If England was on their game, they would devise a strategy to burn many these players young.

[Dammy]

Gotti, you are still going on about this in 2017! I am only contributing what I know to the forum. The drive to get Nigerian born kids especially those in the UK started under Maigari with Siasia holding camps in London for the players to attend (There was a thread on this). I am also aware that some of these boys were flown to Abuja and taken to the National Stadium to get the Nigerian feel. The project stalled under Keshi because he preferred to look inwards i.e. local league. So where am I now hounding Keshi in death? Please keep your emotions out of the debate. Whether you believe it or not, there was a blueprint and Pinnick just keyed into it.

For the umpteenth time, Nigeria has almost ALWAYS sought to bring in foreign-born (or bred) Nigerian players - even the much-maligned Shola Amoebi was being pursued as far back as 12-13 years before he finally donned an SE shirt (unfortunately at the twilight of his career), while someone like d#$% Etuhu was courted for about 5 years (starting from the pre-WC 2002 camp) before finally making his SE debut in 2007. The likes of Ugo Ehiogu, Denis Aogo and Patrick Owomoyela (whom reportedly made it all the was to the Nigerian Embassy in Berlin for a passport) were all actively and repeatedly pursued - and each BEFORE Maigari's tenure.

And while some AGENT (or agents) organized a "camp" (frankly more like kick-about sessions) to market mainly lower-tier league players - leading, among other things, to one dude in the NINTH-tier of English football being invited to the Olympic team camp - that does not amount to a "blueprint" (and of course it has since been discontinued - likely because the pecuniary returns to the agents did not justify their investment). Meanwhile, as far as we are aware, Chuba Iwobi personally brought his son (and not for the first time of visiting Nigeria) to Abuja, while Ovie Ejaria (and another kid whose name presently escapes me) paid their own way to Abuja in 2012 for the 2013 U17 Eaglets camp.

Of course I am aware that Nigeria has been approaching foreign born players before the time of Maigari but what I am saying is that this project is different. It was targeted at players before they hit the limelight. The players you mentioned were already established, how many people knew the likes of Akpom, Lookman, Iwobi, Ilori etc in 2011? The idea was to catch them young and get them into the various age grade national teams. It was a futuristic project that is now reaping fruits under Pinnick. That is why I gave credit to Maigari's NFF.

[bully12]

I'm not trying to denigrate the dead or Keshi . Of all the foreign born players Keshii invited is any of them worth the salt? I don't have any incontrovertible fact to my claim I believe there was some kind of pecuniary inducements that prompted their invitations. There is not iota doubt about it some irreparable damage was inflicted on SE during Keshi's era.

So Victor Moses, Loen Balogun and Troost-Ekong are "not worth the salt"? SMDH@

Please do not distort undisputed fact. Moses was invited by Siasia which he accepted but called it off when there was misunderstanding between NFF and Siasia's tenure. He rescinded his decision when the issue was resolved which was during Keshi's tenure. Thus the credit of Moses invitation belonged to Siasia. Siasia also initiated the invitation of Balogun . The guy I'm sure of is Ekong

[mystic]

I'm not trying to denigrate the dead or Keshi . Of all the foreign born players Keshii invited is any of them worth the salt? I don't have any incontrovertible fact to my claim I believe there was some kind of pecuniary inducements that prompted their invitations. There is not iota doubt about it some irreparable damage was inflicted on SE during Keshi's era.

So Victor Moses, Loen Balogun and Troost-Ekong are "not worth the salt"? SMDH@

Please do not distort undisputed fact. Moses was invited by Siasia which he accepted but called it off when there was misunderstanding between NFF and Siasia's tenure. He rescinded his decision when the issue was resolved which was during Keshi's tenure. Thus the credit of Moses invitation belonged to Siasia. Siasia also initiated the invitation of Balogun . The guy I'm sure of is Ekong

So the same Siasia who was clueless about Balogun, until fans harassed Siasia into inviting him for the ANC qualifier against Egypt is the one who is responsible for him being in the national team?

Cheii! Now I have heard it all.

I suppose that in your mind Siasia won the 2013 Nations Cup and qualified Nigeria to the 2014 World Cup as well. Otherwise how else could he have initiated Balogun's invitation, since it was the coach who accomplished these things that capped Leon in World Cup preparatory game against Mexico?

Listen, you may not be a fan of Keshi, but let's not start rewriting history. It was under his watch that Balogun was capped by Nigeria. And it was also under his watch that Victor Moses earned his first cap for Nigeria and blossomed into a super important player for Nigeria. Mind you, you are right about Siasia being the one who brought Victor Moses into the team, but if Keshi did not believe in Moses' talent as well, he would have truncated the move to cap him that Siasia started.

[Damunk]

If the English ever get their act together about these dual nationals, we'd be done on that front.

What of if Nigeria gets her act together. Then what?

In this game of dual nationals, we are at a severe disadvantage. I commend Rohr and Pinnick for trying to level the playing field, but make no mistake, we succeed because England has no strategy for this issue. If I ran the English FA, the likes of Vic Mo would have been given competitive international minutes as teenagers...just to burn their chances of picking another country. 1 minute is enough. They don't need to play the whole game.

These boys, for all practical purposes, are British. That's their country ...on average, they've probably spent less than a month in Nigeria over their lives. At 18-23, they're unlikely to have any cultural fondness for the country of their parents' birth. The only reason they give us a chance is because we give them a 30-50% chance (let's say) at playing in the World Cup, whereas with England (agbonlahor, amoebi etc), it's virtually 0%.

This is so untrue, particularly for Nigerian kids born in the UK.
I don't know what it is about the UK, maybe it is the concentration of Nigerians in urban clusters (unlike in the US), but the Nigerian culture is very strong and I have found that UK born Nigerian kids are very much in tune with their 'Nigerianess', far more than their US peers who tend to see themselves as Americans first.

Pop culture also has a heavy influence and in the UK, Nigeran music and even Nollywood are part of urban street culture, making it 'cool' to be Nigerian/African, unlike generations past.
This could even be seen to be a direct challenge to the Caribbean street culture and identity, which have defined black youths and youth trends up until relatively recently.

[deanotito]

If the English ever get their act together about these dual nationals, we'd be done on that front.

What of if Nigeria gets her act together. Then what?

In this game of dual nationals, we are at a severe disadvantage. I commend Rohr and Pinnick for trying to level the playing field, but make no mistake, we succeed because England has no strategy for this issue. If I ran the English FA, the likes of Vic Mo would have been given competitive international minutes as teenagers...just to burn their chances of picking another country. 1 minute is enough. They don't need to play the whole game.

These boys, for all practical purposes, are British. That's their country ...on average, they've probably spent less than a month in Nigeria over their lives. At 18-23, they're unlikely to have any cultural fondness for the country of their parents' birth. The only reason they give us a chance is because we give them a 30-50% chance (let's say) at playing in the World Cup, whereas with England (agbonlahor, amoebi etc), it's virtually 0%.

This is so untrue, particularly for Nigerian kids born in the UK.
I don't know what it is about the UK, maybe it is the concentration of Nigerians in urban clusters (unlike in the US), but the Nigerian culture is very strong and I have found that UK born Nigerian kids are very much in tune with their 'Nigerianess', far more than their US peers who tend to see themselves as Americans first.

Pop culture also has a heavy influence and in the UK, Nigeran music and even Nollywood are part of urban street culture, making it 'cool' to be Nigerian/African, unlike generations past.
This could even be seen to be a direct challenge to the Caribbean street culture and identity, which have defined black youths and youth trends up until relatively recently.

Well, not sure I can agree. I have not seen any ethnicity where what you're saying would hold true. Are Indian diasporean (UK) kids more in tune with India or with the UK? It doesn't matter how many Chapatis they eat, or how many Bollywood songs they can dance to. Being able to dance to Davido and Wizkid does not translate to cultural affinity with Nigeria over the country where they were born and raised. That stuff is ingrained.

I have been in America since my late teens, and as assimilated as I am with American culture, it is highly unlikely that if given the unfettered choice, I would have chosen to play for the U.S. over Nigeria. When it was time to marry, I found a Nigerian as well. When I went back to Nigeria after a long absence, I felt a bit like an alien...But that's a long way from representing another country over Nigeria. Nigeria, to use the colloquial term, is in my blood - biologically, by experience and figuratively. For many of these kids, Nigeria is only in their blood biologically.

Nigerian life is distant to them. When the likes of Balogun, Ikeme etc. go to Nigeria, I am pretty certain they would find many things puzzling, and would feel somewhat alienated. They would go with the flow, and their teammates would make them feel welcome, and as long as they perform, no problem. But there is no question in my mind that they would feel more "at home" playing for Germany or England. They will assimilate with Nigeria, and make it work. But right off the bat?? No way

[wiseone]

Do we really think Balogun and Ebuehi would have chosen Nigeria if they had a good shot of getting into the Germany team ahead of Hummels, Rudiger, Lahm, Kimmich, Howedes etc?

Or would Ikeme play for Nigeria if he was good enough to get into England's team? (England has about 25-30 GKs that are better than him)

SOME of these guys are playing for Nigeria because it is their most realistic shot at international football, rather than because they 'bleed GWG'.

[danfo driver]

Do we really think Balogun and Ebuehi would have chosen Nigeria if he had a good shot of getting into the Germany team ahead of Hummels, Rudiger, Howedes etc?

Or would Ikeme play for Nigeria if he was good enough to get into England's team? (England has about 25-30 GKs that are better than him)

SOME of these guys are playing for Nigeria because it is their most realistic shot at international football, rather than because they 'bleed GWG'.

Name them, please.

No more should we allow people just make comments without backing it up! Please, name the 25-30 goal keepers. Thanks.

[Cito]

Do we really think Balogun and Ebuehi would have chosen Nigeria if he had a good shot of getting into the Germany team ahead of Hummels, Rudiger, Howedes etc?

Or would Ikeme play for Nigeria if he was good enough to get into England's team? (England has about 25-30 GKs that are better than him)

SOME of these guys are playing for Nigeria because it is their most realistic shot at international football, rather than because they 'bleed GWG'.

Name them, please.

No more should we allow people just make comments without backing it up! Please, name the 25-30 goal keepers. Thanks.

That is about the biggest crock of BS ever uttered on this site.

[The YeyeMan]

This is so untrue, particularly for Nigerian kids born in the UK.
I don't know what it is about the UK, maybe it is the concentration of Nigerians in urban clusters (unlike in the US), but the Nigerian culture is very strong and I have found that UK born Nigerian kids are very much in tune with their 'Nigerianess', far more than their US peers who tend to see themselves as Americans first.

Pop culture also has a heavy influence and in the UK, Nigeran music and even Nollywood are part of urban street culture, making it 'cool' to be Nigerian/African, unlike generations past.
This could even be seen to be a direct challenge to the Caribbean street culture and identity, which have defined black youths and youth trends up until relatively recently.

For once you are right.

[marutimon]

Do we really think Balogun and Ebuehi would have chosen Nigeria if they had a good shot of getting into the Germany team ahead of Hummels, Rudiger, Lahm, Kimmich, Howedes etc?

Or would Ikeme play for Nigeria if he was good enough to get into England's team? (England has about 25-30 GKs that are better than him)

Agree on Balogun, but the rest...

Points of contention:
1. Ebuehi is a Dutch national, not a German national. The Netherlands are playing terrible football, Ebuehi is a starter in Holland, has only 21 years and he may well have progressed to be good enough to start from Holland.

2. Ikeme's only option was Nigeria - true, but England do not have 25-30 GKs better than him. England have Joe Hart, Lee Grant, Jordan Pickford, Ben Foster, Tom Heaton, Fraser Forster and maybe Karl Darlow. England aren't exactly stacked here.

[Mr Shows]

If the English ever get their act together about these dual nationals, we'd be done on that front.

What of if Nigeria gets her act together. Then what?

In this game of dual nationals, we are at a severe disadvantage. I commend Rohr and Pinnick for trying to level the playing field, but make no mistake, we succeed because England has no strategy for this issue. If I ran the English FA, the likes of Vic Mo would have been given competitive international minutes as teenagers...just to burn their chances of picking another country. 1 minute is enough. They don't need to play the whole game.

These boys, for all practical purposes, are British. That's their country ...on average, they've probably spent less than a month in Nigeria over their lives. At 18-23, they're unlikely to have any cultural fondness for the country of their parents' birth. The only reason they give us a chance is because we give them a 30-50% chance (let's say) at playing in the World Cup, whereas with England (agbonlahor, amoebi etc), it's virtually 0%.

This is so untrue, particularly for Nigerian kids born in the UK.
I don't know what it is about the UK, maybe it is the concentration of Nigerians in urban clusters (unlike in the US), but the Nigerian culture is very strong and I have found that UK born Nigerian kids are very much in tune with their 'Nigerianess', far more than their US peers who tend to see themselves as Americans first.

Pop culture also has a heavy influence and in the UK, Nigeran music and even Nollywood are part of urban street culture, making it 'cool' to be Nigerian/African, unlike generations past.
This could even be seen to be a direct challenge to the Caribbean street culture and identity, which have defined black youths and youth trends up until relatively recently.

Damunk, very interesting point and I think you are on to something. Our sheer number and influence tilted the urban culture scales in our favour, black youths have always yearned for a sense of belonging. Before then it was the Jamaican culture that was the lure for our kids. However, our recent success and dominance in the sports, arts and entertainment field has given a lot of Nigerian youths something positive to identify with. The same resurgence happened in the British/Ghanaian kids when Ghana did well in the WC. Its not a 50/50 thing, these kids see themselves as 100% British and 100% Nigerian and that is exactly what they are.

[wiseone]

Thanks for pointing out my oversight on Ebuehi. That was a typo.

The fact that Pickford (a rookie GK who has made less than 25 EPL appearances) is miles ahead of Ikeme in terms of playing for England - tells you about Ikeme's standing in England. Keep in mind that Ikeme is 31 yo and spent the majority of his career as a reserve GK in the second division.

Agree on Balogun, but the rest...

Points of contention:
1. Ebuehi is a Dutch national, not a German national. The Netherlands are playing terrible football, Ebuehi is a starter in Holland, has only 21 years and he may well have progressed to be good enough to start from Holland.

2. Ikeme's only option was Nigeria - true, but England do not have 25-30 GKs better than him. England have Joe Hart, Lee Grant, Jordan Pickford, Ben Foster, Tom Heaton, Fraser Forster and maybe Karl Darlow. England aren't exactly stacked here.

[Cito]

Thanks for pointing out my oversight on Ebuehi. That was a typo.

The fact that Pickford (a rookie GK who has made less than EPL appearances) is miles ahead of Ikeme in terms of playing for England - tells you about Ikeme's standing in England. Keep in mind that Ikeme is 31 yo and spent the majority of his career as a reserve GK in the second division.

Agree on Balogun, but the rest...

Points of contention:
1. Ebuehi is a Dutch national, not a German national. The Netherlands are playing terrible football, Ebuehi is a starter in Holland, has only 21 years and he may well have progressed to be good enough to start from Holland.

2. Ikeme's only option was Nigeria - true, but England do not have 25-30 GKs better than him. England have Joe Hart, Lee Grant, Jordan Pickford, Ben Foster, Tom Heaton, Fraser Forster and maybe Karl Darlow. England aren't exactly stacked here.

But Ikeme is already a Nigerian International or has FIFA changed the rules? Pickford is still keeping for the youth teams and not a full International yet. So what exactly are you comparing?

The keeper position is one where a keeper could be great but have little to no international outing for the sole reason of having a greater keeper ahead of him. Think of Gigi Buffon vs Sirigu and Iker Casilla vs Pepe Reina, Da Gea etc.

[wiseone]

You probably need to read our prior posts to the beginning in order to get the context of the point we are debating.

But Ikeme is already a Nigerian International or has FIFA changed the rules? Pickford is still keeping for the youth teams and not a full International yet. So what exactly are you comparing?

The keeper position is one where a keeper could be great but have little to no international outing for the sole reason of having a greater keeper ahead of him. Think of Gigi Buffon vs Sirigu and Iker Casilla vs Pepe Reina, Da Gea etc.

[Bigpokey24]

Do we really think Balogun and Ebuehi would have chosen Nigeria if he had a good shot of getting into the Germany team ahead of Hummels, Rudiger, Howedes etc?

Or would Ikeme play for Nigeria if he was good enough to get into England's team? (England has about 25-30 GKs that are better than him)

SOME of these guys are playing for Nigeria because it is their most realistic shot at international football, rather than because they 'bleed GWG'.

Name them, please.

No more should we allow people just make comments without backing it up! Please, name the 25-30 goal keepers. Thanks.

[Cito]

You probably need to read our prior posts to the beginning in order to get the context of the point we are debating.

But Ikeme is already a Nigerian International or has FIFA changed the rules? Pickford is still keeping for the youth teams and not a full International yet. So what exactly are you comparing?

The keeper position is one where a keeper could be great but have little to no international outing for the sole reason of having a greater keeper ahead of him. Think of Gigi Buffon vs Sirigu and Iker Casilla vs Pepe Reina, Da Gea etc.

You mean the context of Ikeme not having any other options? That may be true but it still does not nullify the fact that Pickford is not better than Ikeme on the scales you used to measure both. Pickford may not make it to full international level for the fact that there may be a better group ahead of him. The longevity of the keeper ahead of him may prevent him making more than a few appearances for the National team.

I understand your points but your use of exaggerations (25-30 ahead of Ikeme) and a youth potential makes it hard to agree with you. Being in a lower league do not always translate to being worse than one in upper league, especially if you are conceding 31 goals in 19 games.