Congrats to my man Zidane.

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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

Post by ohsee »

Samora Machel wrote: Strangely I kinda agree that coaches aren't as important and once raised this point when I first joined CE. I am a football nobody and don't claim to know much about tactics but after a crash course some one like me might manage to keep Barcelona or Madrid in the top 4 of LA liga. The players are simply that good. We see the same thing in F1 where the car can change a drivers fortunes.
Chief, take sofry to talk like that. If you go to coach Barcelona, the players will go on strike because they will know right away that you have no clue. It always looks easy from the outside looking in where most things are concerned. Before I assumed my current job, I always assumed that my boss did not do anything, and anybody could do his job. Imagine my surprise when I actually stepped into his shoes and was almost overwhelmed with the tasks he made look easy. It took me three years to get it right.

Chief, the great coaches like Mourinho and Pep make from $12 million per annum to the outrageous figure of $21 million in the case of Pep. You guys do not understand economics. If anybody like you could do what these coaches do, they would not make that kind of money, period. Equally able competitors would underbid them and bring their cost down to something less than $50,000 a year, the cost of the average guy. Ever heard of supply and demand? If there is a vast supply of a skill, it defies economic logic to pay one guy $21 million a year for something everyone can do.
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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

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ohsee wrote:
Samora Machel wrote: Strangely I kinda agree that coaches aren't as important and once raised this point when I first joined CE. I am a football nobody and don't claim to know much about tactics but after a crash course some one like me might manage to keep Barcelona or Madrid in the top 4 of LA liga. The players are simply that good. We see the same thing in F1 where the car can change a drivers fortunes.

Chief, take sofry to talk like that. If you go to coach Barcelona, the players will go on strike because they will know right away that you have no clue
. It always looks easy from the outside looking in where most things are concerned. Before I assumed my current job, I always assumed that my boss did not do anything, and anybody could do his job. Imagine my surprise when I actually stepped into his shoes and was almost overwhelmed with the tasks he made look easy. It took me three years to get it right.

Chief, the great coaches like Mourinho and Pep make from $12 million per annum to the outrageous figure of $21 million in the case of Pep. You guys do not understand economics. If anybody like you could do what these coaches do, they would not make that kind of money, period. Equally able competitors would underbid them and bring their cost down to something less than $50,000 a year, the cost of the average guy. Ever heard of supply and demand? If there is a vast supply of a skill, it defies economic logic to pay one guy $21 million a year for something everyone can do.

:rotf: :rotf:
Chief is that not part of the little things CIC talks about. Before my seat is even warm the players will already have started agitating against me because I have no pedigree. But I hope you genuinely see my point that alardyce will keep Barcelona in the top four
Ratlala :thumbs: :D

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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

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ohsee wrote:
Samora Machel wrote: Strangely I kinda agree that coaches aren't as important and once raised this point when I first joined CE. I am a football nobody and don't claim to know much about tactics but after a crash course some one like me might manage to keep Barcelona or Madrid in the top 4 of LA liga. The players are simply that good. We see the same thing in F1 where the car can change a drivers fortunes.
Chief, take sofry to talk like that. If you go to coach Barcelona, the players will go on strike because they will know right away that you have no clue. It always looks easy from the outside looking in where most things are concerned. Before I assumed my current job, I always assumed that my boss did not do anything, and anybody could do his job. Imagine my surprise when I actually stepped into his shoes and was almost overwhelmed with the tasks he made look easy. It took me three years to get it right.

Chief, the great coaches like Mourinho and Pep make from $12 million per annum to the outrageous figure of $21 million in the case of Pep. You guys do not understand economics. If anybody like you could do what these coaches do, they would not make that kind of money, period. Equally able competitors would underbid them and bring their cost down to something less than $50,000 a year, the cost of the average guy. Ever heard of supply and demand? If there is a vast supply of a skill, it defies economic logic to pay one guy $21 million a year for something everyone can do.
One day in the not too distant future, we may see teams managed by Artificial Intelligence software running on a supercomputer that is fed every player star possible, even form. :mrgreen:
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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

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Samora Machel wrote:
ohsee wrote:
Samora Machel wrote: Strangely I kinda agree that coaches aren't as important and once raised this point when I first joined CE. I am a football nobody and don't claim to know much about tactics but after a crash course some one like me might manage to keep Barcelona or Madrid in the top 4 of LA liga. The players are simply that good. We see the same thing in F1 where the car can change a drivers fortunes.

Chief, take sofry to talk like that. If you go to coach Barcelona, the players will go on strike because they will know right away that you have no clue
. It always looks easy from the outside looking in where most things are concerned. Before I assumed my current job, I always assumed that my boss did not do anything, and anybody could do his job. Imagine my surprise when I actually stepped into his shoes and was almost overwhelmed with the tasks he made look easy. It took me three years to get it right.

Chief, the great coaches like Mourinho and Pep make from $12 million per annum to the outrageous figure of $21 million in the case of Pep. You guys do not understand economics. If anybody like you could do what these coaches do, they would not make that kind of money, period. Equally able competitors would underbid them and bring their cost down to something less than $50,000 a year, the cost of the average guy. Ever heard of supply and demand? If there is a vast supply of a skill, it defies economic logic to pay one guy $21 million a year for something everyone can do.

:rotf: :rotf:
Chief is that not part of the little things CIC talks about. Before my seat is even warm the players will already have started agitating against me because I have no pedigree. But I hope you genuinely see my point that alardyce will keep Barcelona in the top four
Chief, until we see Alladyce actually do it, it is pure speculation that he will. By the way, they will not agitate against you because you have no pedigree; they will agitate against you because when you have your first team talk, you will sound like txj, which will immediately identify you as a "I read it in a tactical book" rank amateur. :rotf: :rotf:
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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

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ohsee wrote:
Samora Machel wrote:
ohsee wrote:
Samora Machel wrote: Strangely I kinda agree that coaches aren't as important and once raised this point when I first joined CE. I am a football nobody and don't claim to know much about tactics but after a crash course some one like me might manage to keep Barcelona or Madrid in the top 4 of LA liga. The players are simply that good. We see the same thing in F1 where the car can change a drivers fortunes.

Chief, take sofry to talk like that. If you go to coach Barcelona, the players will go on strike because they will know right away that you have no clue
. It always looks easy from the outside looking in where most things are concerned. Before I assumed my current job, I always assumed that my boss did not do anything, and anybody could do his job. Imagine my surprise when I actually stepped into his shoes and was almost overwhelmed with the tasks he made look easy. It took me three years to get it right.

Chief, the great coaches like Mourinho and Pep make from $12 million per annum to the outrageous figure of $21 million in the case of Pep. You guys do not understand economics. If anybody like you could do what these coaches do, they would not make that kind of money, period. Equally able competitors would underbid them and bring their cost down to something less than $50,000 a year, the cost of the average guy. Ever heard of supply and demand? If there is a vast supply of a skill, it defies economic logic to pay one guy $21 million a year for something everyone can do.

:rotf: :rotf:
Chief is that not part of the little things CIC talks about. Before my seat is even warm the players will already have started agitating against me because I have no pedigree. But I hope you genuinely see my point that alardyce will keep Barcelona in the top four
Chief, until we see Alladyce actually do it, it is pure speculation that he will. By the way, they will not agitate against you because you have no pedigree; they will agitate against you because when you have your first team talk, you will sound like txj, which will immediately identify you as a "I read it in a tactical book" rank amateur. :rotf: :rotf:

:rotf: :rotf:
Ratlala :thumbs: :D

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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

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cic old boy wrote:
benteke wrote: The part in bold :ohmy:
Here we go again :rotf:
What's funny? There is a thread on this with evidence from the players.
What ? evidence that Moyes was a better coach than Fergie and that Fergie was one of the worst coaches in the modern era ?

I would like to see this thread for laughs :biggrin:
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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

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ohsee wrote:
Samora Machel wrote:
ohsee wrote:
Samora Machel wrote: Strangely I kinda agree that coaches aren't as important and once raised this point when I first joined CE. I am a football nobody and don't claim to know much about tactics but after a crash course some one like me might manage to keep Barcelona or Madrid in the top 4 of LA liga. The players are simply that good. We see the same thing in F1 where the car can change a drivers fortunes.

Chief, take sofry to talk like that. If you go to coach Barcelona, the players will go on strike because they will know right away that you have no clue
. It always looks easy from the outside looking in where most things are concerned. Before I assumed my current job, I always assumed that my boss did not do anything, and anybody could do his job. Imagine my surprise when I actually stepped into his shoes and was almost overwhelmed with the tasks he made look easy. It took me three years to get it right.

Chief, the great coaches like Mourinho and Pep make from $12 million per annum to the outrageous figure of $21 million in the case of Pep. You guys do not understand economics. If anybody like you could do what these coaches do, they would not make that kind of money, period. Equally able competitors would underbid them and bring their cost down to something less than $50,000 a year, the cost of the average guy. Ever heard of supply and demand? If there is a vast supply of a skill, it defies economic logic to pay one guy $21 million a year for something everyone can do.

:rotf: :rotf:
Chief is that not part of the little things CIC talks about. Before my seat is even warm the players will already have started agitating against me because I have no pedigree. But I hope you genuinely see my point that alardyce will keep Barcelona in the top four
Chief, until we see Alladyce actually do it, it is pure speculation that he will. By the way, they will not agitate against you because you have no pedigree; they will agitate against you because when you have your first team talk, you will sound like txj, which will immediately identify you as a "I read it in a tactical book" rank amateur. :rotf: :rotf:

:laugh:
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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

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benteke wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
benteke wrote: The part in bold :ohmy:
Here we go again :rotf:
What's funny? There is a thread on this with evidence from the players.
What ? evidence that Moyes was a better coach than Fergie and that Fergie was one of the worst coaches in the modern era ?

I would like to see this thread for laughs :biggrin:

:rotf:
Even I want to see the thread
Ratlala :thumbs: :D

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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

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felarey wrote:You guys arguing with CIC, notice what he wrote here:

I remember seeing a union leader complain about the CEO of a train company awarding himself a 10% pay raise for improvements in productivity and giving just 3% to train drivers. The union guy said: “You would think he drove every f*cking train himself”.

That shows where his mindset is. This is a fundamental way of thinking that can't be swayed on the merits of facts alone. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown. The players play but someone is responsible for the output of every single one of them. I bet those train drivers have been driving the trains for decades without the same result.
I feel I need to teach each and every single one of you the basics about a workplace. It is the workers that increase productivity and generate wealth. In football, it is the players. No matter what sort of management wizard or technical guru you are, if you don’t have good players, you are f*cked. Try teaching a possession game to people that can’t control a ball and see how far you’d get. Try playing a high press with a lazy player like Mikelele and see what would happen. Try playing a high defensive line with a one-paced defender like Terry and see how many goals you’d chop. You may set the strategy, devise the plans, be the greatest motivator on earth, but without players that can execute, all that is meaningless.
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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

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benteke wrote: This below was a bit arrogant:
“In many other countries when one guy has the ball at his feet the people know what is going to happen. Here the football is more unpredictable because the ball is in the air more than on the floor. I only needed to see one game to understand English football: Swansea 5 Crystal Palace 4. Nine goals, eight from set pieces. That is English football and I have to adapt.”
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -city-form

Then also his sarcastic comment after winning at Old Trafford that Bournemouth plays the best football or something like that.

On Mangala and Demichelis, what i am saying is that these were more solid defenders than John Stones, and Pep moved them on and replaced them with Stones, and now it's no longer Pep's fault, but Stones.
Same with Hart. Then we are now told it's not his fault.

He might know football inside out, but i think he underestimated this English adventure, and that's why there are excuses for him from guys like you, unlike with Conte.
You and I may have different interpretations of “arrogant”. What I was looking for was evidence of his arrogance about his own abilities as a coach. What you presented was him talking about his experience of how the game is played in England.

What is arrogant about saying Bournemouth played better football than Manure, when Borinho parked the bus?

I think Stones is a calamity defender as is Mangala. Stones at least can play a bit. Demichelis is better than both, but he is past his sell by date and very slow. Hart is a crap keeper - he showed it at the Euros. The Torino president said last week they didn't expect so many mistakes from an England international. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/ ... t-10418905

I don’t think he underestimated England. I don’t make excuses for him either. Only one team can win the league. Conte wasn’t looking too clever in the early days either. You guys need to learn that football is not played by coaches.
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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

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Samora Machel wrote:CIC surely you gotta admit that shipping out Mangala and Hart without giving them a chance is the height of arrogance and a know it all coach. For the record please state whether you believe that Stones is a better football player than Demechlis and Mangala. How about freezing out Yaya to the cost of the team. I believe had the yaya thing not happened City would have stayed in the race till the end. That was poor decision making and vanity at the expense of results. Do you believe Bravo is a better goalkeeper than Joe Hart? Even if he is at least he was tried and tested in the city system and the EPL unlike the calamitous Bravo. Wouldn't it have been more prudent to give Bravo a run but have Hart on standby?

Strangely I kinda agree that coaches aren't as important and once raised this point when I first joined CE. I am a football nobody and don't claim to know much about tactics but after a crash course some one like me might manage to keep Barcelona or Madrid in the top 4 of LA liga. The players are simply that good. We see the same thing in F1 where the car can change a drivers fortunes.
My guy, you people watch football on the basis of emotion. There is no way I would defend Mangala and Hart. But there is no way I would sign Stones. But I think Pep’s bigger mistake was letting Nasri go. Nasri is a better player than the headless chickens Sterling and Navas.
I knocked Pep when he let Yaya go for Busquets at Barca. But the Yaya of today is a liability in midfield. Fernandinho does the work of two people when he plays alongside Yaya. Of course, Yaya is talented and capable of moments of magic, but he is not the player he was 2/3 years ago.

Every coach makes mistakes. The successful ones call it right more than they call it wrong. Bravo is miles better than Hart. But like every other keeper, he may have needed time to adjust to the English game. De Gea did not look too clever when he first came to England and many were thinking what a waste of money.

PS: I'm not saying coaches are not important. Just that their importance is exaggerated.
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ohsee wrote: :shock: :shock:
cic, I think you misunderstand what Low is saying. When he is talking about small details being the difference, it does not mean that any tactical ignoramus can win the game. It just means that at the top level, the ability of the coaches and teams is so uniformly high that marginal things make the difference. Not that coaches don't matter, or that anybody can coach a good team to victory.

What Low says is rather obvious when you understand what he really means. Also, I guess you did not see what he said here:
"We have to see that our visions are implemented and that the players understand our approach, our philosophy and how we want to play," said the former VfB Stuttgart, Fenerbahçe SK and FK Austria Wien coach.
I don't have to explain that for you, do I? The coach has told you the players should understand his vision, his approach, his philosophy and how he wants them to play. This is clearly big picture strategy, organization and tactics, but you still think all a great coach does is take care of small details.
Nna, where did I suggest any tactical ignoramus can win a game? I even said a tactical ignoramus like Fergie needed good coaches as his assistants. Read what I have written here and it is clear me and Low are on the same page. I said exactly the same thing about where teams are matched and how minor details determine the outcome.

Every coach has his vision and approach to the game. That is stating the obvious. For e.g Klinsi and Low transformed how Germany play. Klinsi didn’t win anything. But Low did. Does it mean one is a better than the other? Firstly, it means that the vision, organisation, etc can only get you so far. Low won with the vision started with Klinsi, when players like Lahm got better with age, and a very strong pool of talent from a revamped youth system matured. Not to forget, the traditional German way of taking care of little details.
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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

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cic old boy wrote:
felarey wrote:You guys arguing with CIC, notice what he wrote here:

I remember seeing a union leader complain about the CEO of a train company awarding himself a 10% pay raise for improvements in productivity and giving just 3% to train drivers. The union guy said: “You would think he drove every f*cking train himself”.

That shows where his mindset is. This is a fundamental way of thinking that can't be swayed on the merits of facts alone. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown. The players play but someone is responsible for the output of every single one of them. I bet those train drivers have been driving the trains for decades without the same result.
I feel I need to teach each and every single one of you the basics about a workplace. It is the workers that increase productivity and generate wealth. In football, it is the players. No matter what sort of management wizard or technical guru you are, if you don’t have good players, you are f*cked. Try teaching a possession game to people that can’t control a ball and see how far you’d get. Try playing a high press with a lazy player like Mikelele and see what would happen. Try playing a high defensive line with a one-paced defender like Terry and see how many goals you’d chop. You may set the strategy, devise the plans, be the greatest motivator on earth, but without players that can execute, all that is meaningless.
Thanks for the Chelsea analogy but it doesn't help your case because the best managers look at what they have and adjust their philosophy or tactics to fit the best materials on hand which is exactly what Conte has done and won the league fairly comfortably in his first season.

Moses bounced around from team to team for 3 years or so - most of the time riding bench even while out on loan - but you rate him as one of the best in the league. Alonso was a massive flop at sunderland yet, again you have rated him highly. Based on what? Are you aware that Conte almost exclusively played a back 4 the entire preseason last summer which explains why he went with a back 4 for the first 6 games before falling 8 pts behind Pep in the league after only 6 games. Pedro was not a starter - certainly not with CFC player of last season, Willian, on the squad. What about Fabregas nko? The point is, if your players cannot press, you adjust. If they can't trap a bag of cement (which is beyond exagerating the Man City situation), you adjust. Can Matic trap the ball? Can Matic even deliver a simple pass beyond 3yds with his right foot? What do you do? You redifine his responsibility to mitigate his weaknesses. Ditto for especially for Luiz who everyone knows is a poor defender in a back 4.

I can go on and on but the point of the matter is that these decisions are made by the Manager. He must diagnose the situation, design solutions and implement effectively to meet the team's objectives. Not everyone can do it. Carrying the players along (a.k.a, man management) is one of the hardest skills required.
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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

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benteke wrote: What ? evidence that Moyes was a better coach than Fergie and that Fergie was one of the worst coaches in the modern era ?

I would like to see this thread for laughs :biggrin:
:lol: I think you even contributed in that thread as I educated folks on how Fergie was not a good coach, with the help of his former players.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=240244
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ohsee wrote:Chief, until we see Alladyce actually do it, it is pure speculation that he will. By the way, they will not agitate against you because you have no pedigree; they will agitate against you because when you have your first team talk, you will sound like txj, which will immediately identify you as a "I read it in a tactical book" rank amateur. :rotf: :rotf:
:lol: When Peter Taylor was coach at Leicester, he said he kept getting letters from one fan that was always telling him that he didn’t have a clue, that the fan could do a better job, etc. Taylor said he felt like inviting the fan to handle training, but thought against it b/c he knew the players would have eaten him alive.
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green4life wrote: Thanks for the Chelsea analogy but it doesn't help your case because the best managers look at what they have and adjust their philosophy or tactics to fit the best materials on hand which is exactly what Conte has done and won the league fairly comfortably in his first season.

Moses bounced around from team to team for 3 years or so - most of the time riding bench even while out on loan - but you rate him as one of the best in the league. Alonso was a massive flop at sunderland yet, again you have rated him highly. Based on what? Are you aware that Conte almost exclusively played a back 4 the entire preseason last summer which explains why he went with a back 4 for the first 6 games before falling 8 pts behind Pep in the league after only 6 games. Pedro was not a starter - certainly not with CFC player of last season, Willian, on the squad. What about Fabregas nko? The point is, if your players cannot press, you adjust. If they can't trap a bag of cement (which is beyond exagerating the Man City situation), you adjust. Can Matic trap the ball? Can Matic even deliver a simple pass beyond 3yds with his right foot? What do you do? You redifine his responsibility to mitigate his weaknesses. Ditto for especially for Luiz who everyone knows is a poor defender in a back 4.

I can go on and on but the point of the matter is that these decisions are made by the Manager. He must diagnose the situation, design solutions and implement effectively to meet the team's objectives. Not everyone can do it. Carrying the players along (a.k.a, man management) is one of the hardest skills required.
Try and read what I write b/4 arguing against it. I said earlier that football is a matter of opinions. I said some coaches have a system that they stick to and try to find the players to fit into that system. I said other coaches look at the players they have and find a system to fit those players. I said there is no right or wrong here and if you win it validates your approach. So you claiming the latter is what the best coaches do exposes your lack of in-depth knowledge of the game. While flexibility can be a virtue, some of the best coaches have stuck to their ways and have been very successful.

Moses was always a talented player. He proved it at the ANC. Chelski won’t have signed him if he wasn’t. Conte gave him a chance that Borinho didn’t. I also read that Moses is not a good trainer. So this could explain why many coaches didn’t fancy him. But no one ever doubted his talent. While we can give credit to Conte for playing Moses at wing-back and giving him a platform to perform, if the boy wasn’t very good, they wouldn’t even make the top four.

You call yourself a Chelski fan and you are asking if Matic can trap a ball? Is this meant to be a joke? Matic’s control is very good for a defensive midfielder and he offers a good range of passing with a decent shot on his left foot. I don’t even know why you are talking about him, when I already acknowledged that Fernandinho is a better player. Fact is, at least 8 players in Chelski’s first team are better than their City equivalents. Yet people like you keep banging on about City having the best squad.

Conte deserves credit for what he achieved, but don’t carry on like he didn’t have a solid pool of talent to work with, not to mention the likes of Kante and Hazard. Chelski won b/c they have better players than anyone else and not b/c Conte is a wizard. I would suggest his contribution to their success was not above 5% (and no coach does more than that). This is why I say coaching is about minor details. The notion of a “manager” that is the be all and end all is a myth created in the English game from when the likes of Shankly were portrayed as messianic heroes.
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cic old boy wrote:
benteke wrote: What ? evidence that Moyes was a better coach than Fergie and that Fergie was one of the worst coaches in the modern era ?

I would like to see this thread for laughs :biggrin:
:lol: I think you even contributed in that thread as I educated folks on how Fergie was not a good coach, with the help of his former players.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=240244
OK i remember reading through and concluding that it was a big exxageration :biggrin:
The fact that as Ferguson grew older he decided to delegate a lot out the coaching tasks does not mean he could not and never ever coached at all and neither was he a poor coach.
He did actually do coaching sessions, but not everyday as he used to do earlier in his career.

But to even mention Moyes, the man is proven failure now that football has moved forward a bit.
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Re: Congrats to my man Zidane.

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cic old boy wrote:
benteke wrote: This below was a bit arrogant:
“In many other countries when one guy has the ball at his feet the people know what is going to happen. Here the football is more unpredictable because the ball is in the air more than on the floor. I only needed to see one game to understand English football: Swansea 5 Crystal Palace 4. Nine goals, eight from set pieces. That is English football and I have to adapt.”
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -city-form

Then also his sarcastic comment after winning at Old Trafford that Bournemouth plays the best football or something like that.

On Mangala and Demichelis, what i am saying is that these were more solid defenders than John Stones, and Pep moved them on and replaced them with Stones, and now it's no longer Pep's fault, but Stones.
Same with Hart. Then we are now told it's not his fault.

He might know football inside out, but i think he underestimated this English adventure, and that's why there are excuses for him from guys like you, unlike with Conte.
You and I may have different interpretations of “arrogant”. What I was looking for was evidence of his arrogance about his own abilities as a coach. What you presented was him talking about his experience of how the game is played in England.

What is arrogant about saying Bournemouth played better football than Manure, when Borinho parked the bus?

I think Stones is a calamity defender as is Mangala. Stones at least can play a bit. Demichelis is better than both, but he is past his sell by date and very slow. Hart is a crap keeper - he showed it at the Euros. The Torino president said last week they didn't expect so many mistakes from an England international. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/ ... t-10418905

I don’t think he underestimated England. I don’t make excuses for him either. Only one team can win the league. Conte wasn’t looking too clever in the early days either. You guys need to learn that football is not played by coaches.
You will definitely defend anything that Pep says and sell it to us as gospel.

Now you are implying that Stones is marginally better than Mangala, and that Bravo is better than Hart. :biggrin:

And yes bro you are making excuses for Pep.
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benteke wrote: You will definitely defend anything that Pep says and sell it to us as gospel.

Now you are implying that Stones is marginally better than Mangala, and that Bravo is better than Hart. :biggrin:

And yes bro you are making excuses for Pep.
:lol: :lol: You guys only see what you want to see. On this thread I've already said that I disagreed with Pep getting rid of Yaya at Barca. I also said he should have kept Nasri. I also said I won't sign Stones. In the past, I said Pep made a mistake responding to Yaya's agent. He is a human being. He makes mistakes. I agree with him sometimes and disagree sometimes. If you only judge Bravo on the basis of his stay in England (that's what you are doing b/c you only watch English football), then you could argue Hart is better. I have seen both keepers for the past 5 years. I know Bravo is better.
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benteke wrote: OK i remember reading through and concluding that it was a big exxageration :biggrin:
The fact that as Ferguson grew older he decided to delegate a lot out the coaching tasks does not mean he could not and never ever coached at all and neither was he a poor coach.
He did actually do coaching sessions, but not everyday as he used to do earlier in his career.

But to even mention Moyes, the man is proven failure now that football has moved forward a bit.
You are spinning. The overall view in the game from pros is that Fergie was a crap coach. In that thread I presented the opinions of Lee Sharpe, Paul Parker, Peter Schmeichel, Paul Ince, Joey Barton, etc.
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cic old boy wrote:
benteke wrote: OK i remember reading through and concluding that it was a big exxageration :biggrin:
The fact that as Ferguson grew older he decided to delegate a lot out the coaching tasks does not mean he could not and never ever coached at all and neither was he a poor coach.
He did actually do coaching sessions, but not everyday as he used to do earlier in his career.

But to even mention Moyes, the man is proven failure now that football has moved forward a bit.
You are spinning. The overall view in the game from pros is that Fergie was a crap coach. In that thread I presented the opinions of Lee Sharpe, Paul Parker, Peter Schmeichel, Paul Ince, Joey Barton, etc.
I am not spinning anything, nowhere have they said he was a crap coach, all they have done is confirm what he himself said that as time went on he started delegating a lot of the coaching to other people as he found that he could learn more about his team from observing.
It's as if you are now telling us that Ferguson had absolutely nothing to do with coaching activities at United, yet we know he did take the important coaching sessions.

And to even say Moyes was a better coach, that is over the top, proof is that he took on exactly the same team that Ferguson had and he failed to impart his superior coaching on it, instead he fell flat on his face.
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benteke wrote: I am not spinning anything, nowhere have they said he was a crap coach, all they have done is confirm what he himself said that as time went on he started delegating a lot of the coaching to other people as he found that he could learn more about his team from observing.
It's as if you are now telling us that Ferguson had absolutely nothing to do with coaching activities at United, yet we know he did take the important coaching sessions.

And to even say Moyes was a better coach, that is over the top, proof is that he took on exactly the same team that Ferguson had and he failed to impart his superior coaching on it, instead he fell flat on his face.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Read the quotes from players on that thread.

Here's one from Barton (there are more):
"I'm not here to disrespect Fergie -- great manager, the icon, the pinnacle of British managers -- but he couldn't put on a coaching session to save his life.

"Fergie's a great, great manager. But he's always had good coaches (alongside him), because he can't coach."


Moyes at least could coach!
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cic old boy wrote:
benteke wrote: I am not spinning anything, nowhere have they said he was a crap coach, all they have done is confirm what he himself said that as time went on he started delegating a lot of the coaching to other people as he found that he could learn more about his team from observing.
It's as if you are now telling us that Ferguson had absolutely nothing to do with coaching activities at United, yet we know he did take the important coaching sessions.

And to even say Moyes was a better coach, that is over the top, proof is that he took on exactly the same team that Ferguson had and he failed to impart his superior coaching on it, instead he fell flat on his face.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Read the quotes from players on that thread.

Here's one from Barton (there are more):
"I'm not here to disrespect Fergie -- great manager, the icon, the pinnacle of British managers -- but he couldn't put on a coaching session to save his life.

"Fergie's a great, great manager. But he's always had good coaches (alongside him), because he can't coach."


Moyes at least could coach!
cic, this your argument get plenty K-leg. Fergie won how many Premier League championships? Who else came close? If the coaching was done by others, who are they and why did they not go elsewhere and win? Why is it that when Fergie left, the Moyes who is supposed to be better was an absolute flop? That he could not run a coaching session does not mean he is not a great coach who makes critical decisions when it matters.

Great generals do not pick up guns and go into battle. They may not even come up with winning strategic and tactical plans--they have a general staff for that. What they do is manage their staff and select the best ideas. That is what GOOD managers do and that is what good coaches do.

Fergie was a great coach/manager, period. He proved it not from making biased arguments on the internet, but from winning again and again and again and again and again. For God's sake, the man built three different championship teams, won in two countries, and he is not a great coach? Abegi. I hate Manure, I hate Fergie, but let the truth be told.

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