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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:46 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
felarey wrote:
You guys arguing with CIC, notice what he wrote here:

I remember seeing a union leader complain about the CEO of a train company awarding himself a 10% pay raise for improvements in productivity and giving just 3% to train drivers. The union guy said: “You would think he drove every f*cking train himself”.

That shows where his mindset is. This is a fundamental way of thinking that can't be swayed on the merits of facts alone. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown. The players play but someone is responsible for the output of every single one of them. I bet those train drivers have been driving the trains for decades without the same result.

I feel I need to teach each and every single one of you the basics about a workplace. It is the workers that increase productivity and generate wealth. In football, it is the players. No matter what sort of management wizard or technical guru you are, if you don’t have good players, you are f*cked. Try teaching a possession game to people that can’t control a ball and see how far you’d get. Try playing a high press with a lazy player like Mikelele and see what would happen. Try playing a high defensive line with a one-paced defender like Terry and see how many goals you’d chop. You may set the strategy, devise the plans, be the greatest motivator on earth, but without players that can execute, all that is meaningless.

How many good players did Leicester have?

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:47 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
ohsee wrote:
:shock: :shock:
cic, I think you misunderstand what Low is saying. When he is talking about small details being the difference, it does not mean that any tactical ignoramus can win the game. It just means that at the top level, the ability of the coaches and teams is so uniformly high that marginal things make the difference. Not that coaches don't matter, or that anybody can coach a good team to victory.

What Low says is rather obvious when you understand what he really means. Also, I guess you did not see what he said here:
Quote:
"We have to see that our visions are implemented and that the players understand our approach, our philosophy and how we want to play," said the former VfB Stuttgart, Fenerbahçe SK and FK Austria Wien coach.

I don't have to explain that for you, do I? The coach has told you the players should understand his vision, his approach, his philosophy and how he wants them to play. This is clearly big picture strategy, organization and tactics, but you still think all a great coach does is take care of small details.

Nna, where did I suggest any tactical ignoramus can win a game? I even said a tactical ignoramus like Fergie needed good coaches as his assistants. Read what I have written here and it is clear me and Low are on the same page. I said exactly the same thing about where teams are matched and how minor details determine the outcome.

Every coach has his vision and approach to the game. That is stating the obvious. For e.g Klinsi and Low transformed how Germany play. Klinsi didn’t win anything. But Low did. Does it mean one is a better than the other? Firstly, it means that the vision, organisation, etc can only get you so far. Low won with the vision started with Klinsi, when players like Lahm got better with age, and a very strong pool of talent from a revamped youth system matured. Not to forget, the traditional German way of taking care of little details.

Biko lef matta.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:49 pm 
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ohsee wrote:
cic, this your argument get plenty K-leg. Fergie won how many Premier League championships? Who else came close? If the coaching was done by others, who are they and why did they not go elsewhere and win? Why is it that when Fergie left, the Moyes who is supposed to be better was an absolute flop? That he could not run a coaching session does not mean he is not a great coach who makes critical decisions when it matters.

Great generals do not pick up guns and go into battle. They may not even come up with winning strategic and tactical plans--they have a general staff for that. What they do is manage their staff and select the best ideas. That is what GOOD managers do and that is what good coaches do.

Fergie was a great coach/manager, period. He proved it not from making biased arguments on the internet, but from winning again and again and again and again and again. For God's sake, the man built three different championship teams, won in two countries, and he is not a great coach? Abegi. I hate Manure, I hate Fergie, but let the truth be told.

This is not an argument on the internet. I posted a link to that discussion, it included testimonials from players about how useless Fergie was as a coach.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:50 pm 
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ohsee wrote:
How many good players did Leicester have?

Ngolo Kante, Mahrez, Schmeichel, Vardy....

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:56 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:

I think Stones is a calamity defender as is Mangala. Stones at least can play a bit. Demichelis is better than both, but he is past his sell by date and very slow.

cic, how many times have you watched a full Mangala game? Or are you just listening to the cockeyed British press?
How many mistakes did he make in his time with City as compared to Stones? Did you watch Mangala at Valencia? Mangala is better than both Stones and Dimichelis. I watched Magala in all City games he played when I was a City follower, and BeinSports Canada showed several Valencia games this season which I watched, especially the games against Barca and Real. I still have them on my VCR should you want to see them. You don't know what you are talking about: Mangala is an absolute beast. Did you not read what I posted earlier? He is waaay better than Stones and better than the aged DiMichelis.

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Last edited by ohsee on Wed May 24, 2017 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 5:58 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
ohsee wrote:
How many good players did Leicester have?

Ngolo Kante, Mahrez, Schmeichel, Vardy....

Ngolo Kante is the only player worth anything as an individual.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 7:16 pm 
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cic old boy wrote:
benteke wrote:
I am not spinning anything, nowhere have they said he was a crap coach, all they have done is confirm what he himself said that as time went on he started delegating a lot of the coaching to other people as he found that he could learn more about his team from observing.
It's as if you are now telling us that Ferguson had absolutely nothing to do with coaching activities at United, yet we know he did take the important coaching sessions.

And to even say Moyes was a better coach, that is over the top, proof is that he took on exactly the same team that Ferguson had and he failed to impart his superior coaching on it, instead he fell flat on his face.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Read the quotes from players on that thread.

Here's one from Barton (there are more):
"I'm not here to disrespect Fergie -- great manager, the icon, the pinnacle of British managers -- but he couldn't put on a coaching session to save his life.

"Fergie's a great, great manager. But he's always had good coaches (alongside him), because he can't coach."


Moyes at least could coach!



:ohmy: you are basing your whole agenda on Joey Barton, a player who never even saw a single minute under Alex Ferguson.

The height of his idiocy is to say Ferguson couldn't even put on a coaching session to save his life !
Come on dude, we all know that's a dumb statement to make.

Your whole argument is stillborn :biggrin:


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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:46 pm 
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ohsee wrote:
cic, how many times have you watched a full Mangala game? Or are you just listening to the cockeyed British press?
How many mistakes did he make in his time with City as compared to Stones? Did you watch Mangala at Valencia? Mangala is better than both Stones and Dimichelis. I watched Magala in all City games he played when I was a City follower, and BeinSports Canada showed several Valencia games this season which I watched, especially the games against Barca and Real. I still have them on my VCR should you want to see them. You don't know what you are talking about: Mangala is an absolute beast. Did you not read what I posted earlier? He is waaay better than Stones and better than the aged DiMichelis.

Nna, Mangala is a terrible defender - bad judgment, poor control. His only redeeming qualities are strength and speed. Stones is bad too. I have watched Mangala at City and Valencia.

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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:49 pm 
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benteke wrote:

:ohmy: you are basing your whole agenda on Joey Barton, a player who never even saw a single minute under Alex Ferguson.

The height of his idiocy is to say Ferguson couldn't even put on a coaching session to save his life !
Come on dude, we all know that's a dumb statement to make.

Your whole argument is stillborn :biggrin:

I don't know what is wrong with you. I provided a link to the thread where Fergie's coaching was discussed. I listed the players that questioned his coaching. You then claimed that they didn't say he is a bad coach. So I posted an example. Now it is I'm basing my agenda on one player. Read what Lee Sharpe, Schmeichel, Ince, Parker, etc said. You are in denial.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:58 am 
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cic old boy wrote:
ohsee wrote:
cic, how many times have you watched a full Mangala game? Or are you just listening to the cockeyed British press?
How many mistakes did he make in his time with City as compared to Stones? Did you watch Mangala at Valencia? Mangala is better than both Stones and Dimichelis. I watched Magala in all City games he played when I was a City follower, and BeinSports Canada showed several Valencia games this season which I watched, especially the games against Barca and Real. I still have them on my VCR should you want to see them. You don't know what you are talking about: Mangala is an absolute beast. Did you not read what I posted earlier? He is waaay better than Stones and better than the aged DiMichelis.

Nna, Mangala is a terrible defender - bad judgment, poor control. His only redeeming qualities are strength and speed. Stones is bad too. I have watched Mangala at City and Valencia.

How many times have you watched Mangala at Valencia? Which games did you watch? You are avoiding the question. This is the CE disease, never admitting that you are wrong, that you made a mistake this time. Mangala is a terrible defender, yet Valencia are looking for ways to afford and keep him.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:18 am 
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cic old boy wrote:
benteke wrote:

:ohmy: you are basing your whole agenda on Joey Barton, a player who never even saw a single minute under Alex Ferguson.

The height of his idiocy is to say Ferguson couldn't even put on a coaching session to save his life !
Come on dude, we all know that's a dumb statement to make.

Your whole argument is stillborn :biggrin:

I don't know what is wrong with you. I provided a link to the thread where Fergie's coaching was discussed. I listed the players that questioned his coaching. You then claimed that they didn't say he is a bad coach. So I posted an example. Now it is I'm basing my agenda on one player. Read what Lee Sharpe, Schmeichel, Ince, Parker, etc said. You are in denial.

In football, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But his record speaks for itself.
13 league titles in 27 years at Old Trafford, and two Champions League titles. Who are these coaches who coached for him? Where are they now winning titles?

Before Man U, the man who can't coach won a Scottish league title with Aberdeen--Aberdeen in a world with Celtic and Rangers!!?? :shock: --and then went on to win the European Cup Winners Cup (the grandfather of the Europa Cup), beating Real Madrid :shock: :shock: in the final, and knocking out Bayern along the way!! And e neva finish o! Aberdeen led by the man who cannot coach went on to beat the European champions Hamburger SV in the European Supercup!! But of course he is a lousy coach.

Your argument that he cannot coach a coaching session is like carping that a great general is a lousy drill sergeant and boot camp trainer. It's a terrible argument.

Chief, it will serve your reputation and credibility better if you don't argue along the lines of "I don't like this person so he must be bad." Learn to be more objective. Sir Alex is one of the greatest coaches/ managers in European football history. His record speaks for itself.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:51 am 
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ohsee wrote:
In football, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But his record speaks for itself.
13 league titles in 27 years at Old Trafford, and two Champions League titles. Who are these coaches who coached for him? Where are they now winning titles?

Before Man U, the man who can't coach won a Scottish league title with Aberdeen--Aberdeen in a world with Celtic and Rangers!!?? :shock: --and then went on to win the European Cup Winners Cup (the grandfather of the Europa Cup), beating Real Madrid :shock: :shock: in the final, and knocking out Bayern along the way!! And e neva finish o! Aberdeen led by the man who cannot coach went on to beat the European champions Hamburger SV in the European Supercup!! But of course he is a lousy coach.

Your argument that he cannot coach a coaching session is like carping that a great general is a lousy drill sergeant and boot camp trainer. It's a terrible argument.

Chief, it will serve your reputation and credibility better if you don't argue along the lines of "I don't like this person so he must be bad." Learn to be more objective. Sir Alex is one of the greatest coaches/ managers in European football history. His record speaks for itself.

It is not my argument. It is the views of several footballers, including those that played for the Fergie. I posted their views here. Go and argue with them and not with me. I even bumped the thread so you can do so.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=240244

You seem to know more about Fergie's coaching than those that played for him!

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:05 am 
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cic old boy wrote:
ohsee wrote:
In football, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But his record speaks for itself.
13 league titles in 27 years at Old Trafford, and two Champions League titles. Who are these coaches who coached for him? Where are they now winning titles?

Before Man U, the man who can't coach won a Scottish league title with Aberdeen--Aberdeen in a world with Celtic and Rangers!!?? :shock: --and then went on to win the European Cup Winners Cup (the grandfather of the Europa Cup), beating Real Madrid :shock: :shock: in the final, and knocking out Bayern along the way!! And e neva finish o! Aberdeen led by the man who cannot coach went on to beat the European champions Hamburger SV in the European Supercup!! But of course he is a lousy coach.

Your argument that he cannot coach a coaching session is like carping that a great general is a lousy drill sergeant and boot camp trainer. It's a terrible argument.

Chief, it will serve your reputation and credibility better if you don't argue along the lines of "I don't like this person so he must be bad." Learn to be more objective. Sir Alex is one of the greatest coaches/ managers in European football history. His record speaks for itself.

It is not my argument. It is the views of several footballers, including those that played for the Fergie. I posted their views here. Go and argue with them and not with me. I even bumped the thread so you can do so.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=240244

You seem to know more about Fergie's coaching than those that played for him!


Your argument is dead in the water. On that thread you started off ranting about refs, then you crossed over to digging for stuff to rubbish Fergie's coaching abilities. :biggrin:
But even the comments themselves are inconsistent, you were quick to dismiss De Gea's comment that Fergie was the best coach he worked under.
Then there is Ince who admitted that although Fergie didn't tag sessions everyday, Friday and Saturday where his domain.
All in all you have no point, and look like a very biased hater :taunt: :biggrin:


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:10 am 
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Had Ferguson been a good coach? Sharpe grins. 'No. The lads used to laugh when he tried to take the warm-up. He wasn't a coach. He was a manager, that was his thing.'

Lee Sharpe

As Peter Schmeichel, United’s former goalkeeper, said: “There are thousands of better coaches. But management? The handling of men? There’s nobody better."


"I'm not here to disrespect Fergie -- great manager, the icon, the pinnacle of British managers -- but he couldn't put on a coaching session to save his life.

"I've spoken to people about it. He could barely lay out cones. This is not a coach, this is a manager. This is the difference. There's a big, big difference between a coach and a manager."

The Queens Park Rangers midfielder added: "Fergie's a great, great manager. But he's always had good coaches (alongside him), because he can't coach."


Anyone who thinks Fergie was a great coach is mistaken. He was a great manager. One of, if not the best these shores have ever seen.
Joey Barton on Twitter

Under Sir Alex there was a defined system in place - Ferguson managed and his coaches coached.

Paul Parker, ex Manure defender

“Ferguson never coached; it was either Brian Kidd or Archie Knox. He would sit in his office and look down from his big window at the Cliff and if anyone was farting about, he’d be banging on the window and we all knew we were in trouble.

"It was only on Thursday that we saw Ferguson in training, and then on Friday morning, doing the boxes with his silly little woolly hat on. Saturday was his domain. That’s when you really saw him. If I’d seen Ferguson every day on the training ground it wouldn’t carry that as much substance. It was special when we saw him. ‘Gaffer’s here, stand by your beds’
Paul Ince

This is just from the players. There is more evidence in that thread from journalists like Simon Kuper and real Manure fans.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:11 am 
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benteke wrote:
Your argument is dead in the water. On that thread you started off ranting about refs, then you crossed over to digging for stuff to rubbish Fergie's coaching abilities. :biggrin:
But even the comments themselves are inconsistent, you were quick to dismiss De Gea's comment that Fergie was the best coach he worked under.
Then there is Ince who admitted that although Fergie didn't tag sessions everyday, Friday and Saturday where his domain.
All in all you have no point, and look like a very biased hater :taunt: :biggrin:

Your problem is that you don't know the difference b/w a coach and a manager.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 10:35 am 
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cic old boy wrote:
benteke wrote:
Your argument is dead in the water. On that thread you started off ranting about refs, then you crossed over to digging for stuff to rubbish Fergie's coaching abilities. :biggrin:
But even the comments themselves are inconsistent, you were quick to dismiss De Gea's comment that Fergie was the best coach he worked under.
Then there is Ince who admitted that although Fergie didn't tag sessions everyday, Friday and Saturday where his domain.
All in all you have no point, and look like a very biased hater :taunt: :biggrin:

Your problem is that you don't know the difference b/w a coach and a manager.


I do.
And will take more seriously what Ferguson himself said, that he started delegating some of thesethese coaching tasks later in his career, that does not mean he had no ability coach. Simple.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:40 am 
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cic old boy wrote:
ohsee wrote:
How many good players did Leicester have?

Ngolo Kante, Mahrez, Schmeichel, Vardy....


cic old boy wrote:
Prince wrote:
I said it in one thread, Kane is too Selfish, go with either vardy and Sturridge........ It was a give and go between alli and Sturridge

They are all over-hyped average players.


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=272444&p=4803346&hilit=vardy#p4803346

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:59 pm 
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benteke wrote:
I do.
And will take more seriously what Ferguson himself said, that he started delegating some of thesethese coaching tasks later in his career, that does not mean he had no ability coach. Simple.

The players are saying he didn't. Simple.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:00 pm 
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anointed wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
ohsee wrote:
How many good players did Leicester have?

Ngolo Kante, Mahrez, Schmeichel, Vardy....


cic old boy wrote:
Prince wrote:
I said it in one thread, Kane is too Selfish, go with either vardy and Sturridge........ It was a give and go between alli and Sturridge

They are all over-hyped average players.


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=272444&p=4803346&hilit=vardy#p4803346

:lol: :lol: Good for EPL, overhyped average for international comps. Context.

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:41 am 
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cic old boy wrote:
anointed wrote:
cic old boy wrote:
ohsee wrote:
How many good players did Leicester have?

Ngolo Kante, Mahrez, Schmeichel, Vardy....


cic old boy wrote:
Prince wrote:
I said it in one thread, Kane is too Selfish, go with either vardy and Sturridge........ It was a give and go between alli and Sturridge

They are all over-hyped average players.


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=272444&p=4803346&hilit=vardy#p4803346

:lol: :lol: Good for EPL, overhyped average for international comps. Context.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Where did you mention EPL or international competitions before? Na now you remember, abi? You always have a good spin for EPL but overhyped average spins for international competitions.

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:20 pm 
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anointed wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Where did you mention EPL or international competitions before? Na now you remember, abi? You always have a good spin for EPL but overhyped average spins for international competitions.

:lol: The thread was about the Euros.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:24 pm 
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Zidane, who does not coach :winking:, has won another Champs League. Congrats to the great man.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:43 pm 
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ohsee wrote:
Zidane, who does not coach :winking:, has won another Champs League. Congrats to the great man.

That second half display by Madrid was a confirmation of Zidane's greatness. First half was mano a mano. Second half, we won't know what Zizou told his team but that was a gear higher than half 1 by Madrid.

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