SE & Religion: Rohr Disagrees on Player Fasting......

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

problem is you guys are complicating a relatively simple issue; this is why USA continues to leave countries like Nigeria in the dust with nose bruised all the time. The Nigerian constitution recognises Nigeria as a circular state with separation of religion and state just like US constitution does. which means The coach does what he feels necessary to accomplish his mission - which is to get results and only him would have final say on what the players do or don't do regardless of religious affiliations of individual players so long his actions are not discriminatory. whether religion makes exceptions or not is not a burden on neither the coach or the constitution of the nation in which the particular belief system operates. The Nation is a host to the religion and not the other way around.

And problem with you is that you have taken what was aptly summarized in 2 short sentences and written a thesis that merely betrays your lack of comprehension about the US constitution which actually guarantees freedom of worship - and thus would guarantee the right of these players to fast if they so choose, without being penalized for it. Anyway this is not the forum to deconstruct you parachute analysis of a relatively complicated subject matter.

And btw, it's "secular" and not circular... you can thank me later.

Thank you....I went to look at the map of Nigeria and was wondering how we are circular.

[YUJAM]

There is flexibility in religion. No pro soccer during the time of the prophet so

http://www.dw.com/en/professional-athle ... /a-5883577

The Bundesliga season starts next week - right in the middle of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. This year, Muslim footballers will profit from a new fatwa, allowing them an exception to the strict fasting rules.
Mesut Oezil playing for Germany
Muslim players like Oezil are now allowed to break the fast
For German soccer internationals Sami Khedira, Mesut Oezil und Serdar Tasci, August 11, 2010 is a special day. Not only does the national team play its first match since the World Cup, but it is the beginning of the holy month of Ramadan.
Normally, the three devout Muslim professional footballers, all of whom play for Germany, would be obliged to refrain from eating or drinking from dawn to sundown during Ramadan. But doing hard physical activity while fasting is hard on the body.

In Muslim countries, soccer practice and top-flight games begin after sundown during the period. Not so in Germany.
Second division teams face the same problem: last year, FSV Frankfurt gave three Muslim players a warning after they had failed to inform the club that they were fasting.
It's a dilemma that professional players have faced for years, FSV manager Bernd Reisig said. "It's not easy for soccer players to have to choose between their faith and their profession."
Legal security
This year the German Soccer League (DFL) turned to the Central Council of Muslims in Germany for a solution to the problem, which in turn sought the advice of Islamic scholars at Al-Azhar University, one of the leading authorities in Sunni Islam. The Islam experts issued a fatwa, an Islamic religious edict, that decreed an exception to the strict Ramadan fasting rules could be made for professional athletes.

[furiously frank]

problem is you guys are complicating a relatively simple issue; this is why USA continues to leave countries like Nigeria in the dust with nose bruised all the time. The Nigerian constitution recognises Nigeria as a circular state with separation of religion and state just like US constitution does. which means The coach does what he feels necessary to accomplish his mission - which is to get results and only him would have final say on what the players do or don't do regardless of religious affiliations of individual players so long his actions are not discriminatory. whether religion makes exceptions or not is not a burden on neither the coach or the constitution of the nation in which the particular belief system operates. The Nation is a host to the religion and not the other way around.

And problem with you is that you have taken what was aptly summarized in 2 short sentences and written a thesis that merely betrays your lack of comprehension about the US constitution which actually guarantees freedom of worship - and thus would guarantee the right of these players to fast if they so choose, without being penalized for it. Anyway this is not the forum to deconstruct you parachute analysis of a relatively complicated subject matter.

And btw, it's "secular" and not circular... you can thank me later.

Thanks Gotti. As someone used to say a little knowledge is dangerous

[anointed]

Faith is personal and if fasting is part ones plan no one has the right to tell them not to. He ( Rohr) can chose not to play them but should not tell them they can't fast.

But as someone said, one can make up the fast...

problem is you guys are complicating a relatively simple issue; this is why USA continues to leave countries like Nigeria in the dust with nose bruised all the time. The Nigerian constitution recognises Nigeria as a circular state with separation of religion and state just like US constitution does. which means The coach does what he feels necessary to accomplish his mission - which is to get results and only him would have final say on what the players do or don't do regardless of religious affiliations of individual players so long his actions are not discriminatory. whether religion makes exceptions or not is not a burden on neither the coach or the constitution of the nation in which the particular belief system operates. The Nation is a host to the religion and not the other way around.

Some would argue that we are more of a square.

[bully12]

I'm sure that Musa and Shehu have managed themselves during Ramadan before. They're both professionals and should know how their bodies function on the football field while fasting. Rohr has also been around and has managed Muslim players before, so he also knows what he's dealing with. The option to defer the fasting sounds like the wisest course given that Rohr would want them to be in tip top physical condition for the South Africa game, but the decision ultimately rests with the players.

the clearest answer, IMHO. Hakeem Olajuwon used to fast, and still torch opponents on the court. I think Morocco also went all the way to the ANC finals (in 96?) while most if their players fasted. Conversely, I remember Alhaji Ozil chopping snacks and drinking during the last WC during Ramadan.

Let the truth be told . It used impact Olajuwon adversely and surely affected his output.

[bully12]

Faith is personal and if fasting is part ones plan no one has the right to tell them not to. He ( Rohr) can chose not to play them but should not tell them they can't fast.

The best response so far. The coach didn't have to say anything about. It is unnecessary distraction.

[jette1]

problem is you guys are complicating a relatively simple issue; this is why USA continues to leave countries like Nigeria in the dust with nose bruised all the time. The Nigerian constitution recognises Nigeria as a circular state with separation of religion and state just like US constitution does. which means The coach does what he feels necessary to accomplish his mission - which is to get results and only him would have final say on what the players do or don't do regardless of religious affiliations of individual players so long his actions are not discriminatory. whether religion makes exceptions or not is not a burden on neither the coach or the constitution of the nation in which the particular belief system operates. The Nation is a host to the religion and not the other way around.

And problem with you is that you have taken what was aptly summarized in 2 short sentences and written a thesis that merely betrays your lack of comprehension about the US constitution which actually guarantees freedom of worship - and thus would guarantee the right of these players to fast if they so choose, without being penalized for it. Anyway this is not the forum to deconstruct you parachute analysis of a relatively complicated subject matter.

And btw, it's "secular" and not circular... you can thank me later.

obviously you can read/spell but don't comprehend; freedom of worship doesn't mean erosion of boundaries

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

I'm sure that Musa and Shehu have managed themselves during Ramadan before. They're both professionals and should know how their bodies function on the football field while fasting. Rohr has also been around and has managed Muslim players before, so he also knows what he's dealing with. The option to defer the fasting sounds like the wisest course given that Rohr would want them to be in tip top physical condition for the South Africa game, but the decision ultimately rests with the players.

the clearest answer, IMHO. Hakeem Olajuwon used to fast, and still torch opponents on the court. I think Morocco also went all the way to the ANC finals (in 96?) while most if their players fasted. Conversely, I remember Alhaji Ozil chopping snacks and drinking during the last WC during Ramadan.

Let the truth be told . It used impact Olajuwon adversely and surely affected his output.

I don't disagree, but can you provide stats? Not disputing your point, as I personally would not be physically up to par playing sports while fasting.

[ohenhen1]

Athletes must eat before and after a game or training to help them recover, especially for a game like football. It is basic common sense.

If they fail the fitness test, the coach must bench them.

[anointed]

Peeps are exceptionally respectful on this thread compared to this: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=280649

[bully12]

I'm sure that Musa and Shehu have managed themselves during Ramadan before. They're both professionals and should know how their bodies function on the football field while fasting. Rohr has also been around and has managed Muslim players before, so he also knows what he's dealing with. The option to defer the fasting sounds like the wisest course given that Rohr would want them to be in tip top physical condition for the South Africa game, but the decision ultimately rests with the players.

the clearest answer, IMHO. Hakeem Olajuwon used to fast, and still torch opponents on the court. I think Morocco also went all the way to the ANC finals (in 96?) while most if their players fasted. Conversely, I remember Alhaji Ozil chopping snacks and drinking during the last WC during Ramadan.

Let the truth be told . It used impact Olajuwon adversely and surely affected his output.

I don't disagree, but can you provide stats? Not disputing your point, as I personally would not be physically up to par playing sports while fasting.

Believe it or not, it used to affect him badly. But I'm not going to start digging everywhere for stats to authenticate my claim. At the beginning of his career or when he was at University of Houston he was not observing it. Perhaps he was not an ardent Moslem then. It was discussed widely often on calling shows in Radio stations in those days . Some fans used to be extremely petulant about it thus casting numerous acerbic calumnies on him . But insist on stats this is one

During the season, the Rockets went 52-30, good for a winning percentage of .650.

In the year 1991, Ramadan lasted from March 18th - April 15th. During that time, the Rockets played 14 games and went 11-3, good for a winning percentage of .786.

Regular Season Stats 21.2 13.8 2.3 2.2 3.9 3.1 50.8 76.9
Ramadan Stats 16.6 14.7 1.9 2.8 4.0 3.1 46.6 70.5
Net Change -4.6 +0.9 -0.4 +0.5 +0.1 0 -4.2 -6.4

It seems as though Hakeem's offense suffered, as his PPG, FG% and FT% decreased significantly, but his team prospered and several other stat categories increased, notably his rebounding (by almost 1 RPG.)

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

I'm sure that Musa and Shehu have managed themselves during Ramadan before. They're both professionals and should know how their bodies function on the football field while fasting. Rohr has also been around and has managed Muslim players before, so he also knows what he's dealing with. The option to defer the fasting sounds like the wisest course given that Rohr would want them to be in tip top physical condition for the South Africa game, but the decision ultimately rests with the players.

the clearest answer, IMHO. Hakeem Olajuwon used to fast, and still torch opponents on the court. I think Morocco also went all the way to the ANC finals (in 96?) while most if their players fasted. Conversely, I remember Alhaji Ozil chopping snacks and drinking during the last WC during Ramadan.

Let the truth be told . It used impact Olajuwon adversely and surely affected his output.

I don't disagree, but can you provide stats? Not disputing your point, as I personally would not be physically up to par playing sports while fasting.

Believe it or not, it used to affect him badly. But I'm not going to start digging everywhere for stats to authenticate my claim. At the beginning of his career or when he was at University of Houston he was not observing it. Perhaps he was not an ardent Moslem then. It was discussed widely often on calling shows in Radio stations in those days . Some fans used to be extremely petulant about it thus casting numerous acerbic calumnies on him . But insist on stats this is one

During the season, the Rockets went 52-30, good for a winning percentage of .650.

In the year 1991, Ramadan lasted from March 18th - April 15th. During that time, the Rockets played 14 games and went 11-3, good for a winning percentage of .786.

Regular Season Stats 21.2 13.8 2.3 2.2 3.9 3.1 50.8 76.9
Ramadan Stats 16.6 14.7 1.9 2.8 4.0 3.1 46.6 70.5
Net Change -4.6 +0.9 -0.4 +0.5 +0.1 0 -4.2 -6.4

It seems as though Hakeem's offense suffered, as his PPG, FG% and FT% decreased significantly, but his team prospered and several other stat categories increased, notably his rebounding (by almost 1 RPG.)

Thanks

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

Peeps are exceptionally respectful on this thread compared to this: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=280649

perhaps we should also make this one disrespectful, in the spirit of CE's fairness? Maybe you should point us to those who are respectful towards Islam but disrespectful towards Christianity? Posts from the same people on two different threads would be helpful, so we can question them and their mindset, rather than cast a blanket of bias on the CE in general.

Exceptionally respectful is also a somewhat hard concept for me to fathom. Are the dobale-ing, bowing like Obama, or curtsying like Trump?

[jb]

Fasting is a personal thing between you and your God. We should not be talking about who fasts and who doesn't, who prays five times daily and who doesn't. Part of preparing for a game is: eating, psyching up the players, staying away from women or other distractions and resting well. Anybody who cannot meet those inclusion criteria should please sit their ess down and forget about playing. This is all hypocrisy. Ahmed Musa recently divorced his wife and married another one momentarily. Today they are trying to make fasting a national issue.

[ohenhen1]

Fasting is a personal thing between you and your God. We should not be talking about who fasts and who doesn't, who prays five times daily and who doesn't. Part of preparing for a game is: eating, psyching up the players, staying away from women or other distractions and resting well. Anybody who cannot meet those inclusion criteria should please sit their ess down and forget about playing. This is all hypocrisy. Ahmed Musa recently divorced his wife and married another one momentarily. Today they are trying to make fasting a national issue.

Well said.

Not my business if you choose to fast. But if you fail a fitness test, you shouldn't play and expect not to be called up again during Ramadan.

[anointed]

Peeps are exceptionally respectful on this thread compared to this: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=280649

perhaps we should also make this one disrespectful, in the spirit of CE's fairness? Maybe you should point us to those who are respectful towards Islam but disrespectful towards Christianity? Posts from the same people on two different threads would be helpful, so we can question them and their mindset, rather than cast a blanket of bias on the CE in general.

Exceptionally respectful is also a somewhat hard concept for me to fathom. Are the dobale-ing, bowing like Obama, or curtsying like Trump?

I have to say you lost me there. What it is you are on about bros?

[felarey]

How true is this from Brila FM? If true, Rohr should get on with the job, lots of muslim sportsmen out there. Respect their choice.

[joao]

I note that most of same guys advocating christian religious songs and prayers for the SE,
are now against Islamic fasting for players during competition.
I suggest that, if the player believe they can perform while fasting, they should be allowed.
Also, why can't our NFF put this into consideration and schedule the match for later in the day?

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

Peeps are exceptionally respectful on this thread compared to this: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=280649

perhaps we should also make this one disrespectful, in the spirit of CE's fairness? Maybe you should point us to those who are respectful towards Islam but disrespectful towards Christianity? Posts from the same people on two different threads would be helpful, so we can question them and their mindset, rather than cast a blanket of bias on the CE in general.

Exceptionally respectful is also a somewhat hard concept for me to fathom. Are the dobale-ing, bowing like Obama, or curtsying like Trump?

I have to say you lost me there. What it is you are on about bros?

I just found you

[Gotti]

How true is this from Brila FM? If true, Rohr should get on with the job, lots of muslim sportsmen out there. Respect their choice.

Anyway, the report on telly is that Rohr says players are free to fast on match-day...

[metalalloy]

problem is you guys are complicating a relatively simple issue; this is why USA continues to leave countries like Nigeria in the dust with nose bruised all the time. The Nigerian constitution recognises Nigeria as a circular state with separation of religion and state just like US constitution does. which means The coach does what he feels necessary to accomplish his mission - which is to get results and only him would have final say on what the players do or don't do regardless of religious affiliations of individual players so long his actions are not discriminatory. whether religion makes exceptions or not is not a burden on neither the coach or the constitution of the nation in which the particular belief system operates. The Nation is a host to the religion and not the other way around.

And problem with you is that you have taken what was aptly summarized in 2 short sentences and written a thesis that merely betrays your lack of comprehension about the US constitution which actually guarantees freedom of worship - and thus would guarantee the right of these players to fast if they so choose, without being penalized for it. Anyway this is not the forum to deconstruct you parachute analysis of a relatively complicated subject matter.

And btw, it's "secular" and not circular... you can thank me later.

[lukemana]

Are these the only Muslim prayers? Btw I read somewhere that there's a workaround for this. Muslims here can help.

Yes, they can complete their fast at a later date

Only if they are sick, menstruating (for women) or undertaking a trip. Under the current conditions, they are at work so they must observe the fast.

However, if they get too tired, or it is too hot/cold for them, or encounter a life threatening situation, or they vomit, it is NOT a sin to break the fast before the due time!
Remember, God sees your heart!

Cheers!!!

[metalalloy]

Are these the only Muslim prayers? Btw I read somewhere that there's a workaround for this. Muslims here can help.

Yes, they can complete their fast at a later date

Only if they are sick, menstruating (for women) or undertaking a trip. Under the current conditions, they are at work so they must observe the fast.

However, if they get too tired, or it is too hot/cold for them, or encounter a life threatening situation, or they vomit, it is NOT a sin to break the fast before the due time!
Remember, God sees your heart!

Cheers!!!

What about the Fatwa mentioned in the article Yujam posted above?