Striker wrote:Looking at the game, it seems we were outcoached. If it had been a Nigerian coach, we will be inundated with how South Africa out coached us? What do you guys think?
Local based vs Foreign based debate on CE.
My stance as always been we must get the best coach available, don't care if it is local based or foreign based. But many Nigerians think everything foreign is better. They don't value the local league. They don't value the local coaches. Local coaches don't get paid and are treated like thrash. But the oyinbo man salary is guaranteed and treated well.
Rohr is an average coach, should have never been appointed. But what is done is done. We must support the team and hope for the best.
The sad reality is we will not learn anything from this experience.
Nigeria must develop the local league and appreciate local coaches. No country has won the World cup without a strong domestic league.
Ohenhen1,
I rarely have commented on this issue of having a strong domestic league. Let me comment now. I believe that the highlighted is a dangerous interpretation of statistics. First, while it is true that no country has won the WC without a strong domestic league, it is important to examine what difference exists between those countries and Nigeria. All the countries who have a strong local domestic league and have won the world cup also have their best talents at home playing in the local leagues. In Nigeria's case, I do not know that there is anyone who will argue against the conclusion that Nigeria's top players mostly play abroad. Thus, developing your local league without having your top players playing in it means that you do not satisfy the statistical condition for winning the WC. What I am getting at is the following requirement for winning the WC: (1) a strong domestic league, (2) Having your top players playing in that league, (3) Perhaps other yet to mentioned conditions. In essence, the recipe is not just #1 but requires multiple other factors.
Why don't they want to stay home and play in Nigeria?
Your answer is as good as mine.
Re: Rohr should be queried over South Africa-
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 3:06 pm
by 1naija
bully12 wrote:The guy definitely needs to be queried to explain why he blatantly refused to feature our most prolific scorer in Europe instead played bench warming ,fringe and inconsequential players in their various clubs. If the guy is incapable of using our best players he should resign . Nobody goes to war without his best armaments. An excuse you don't how to use them is absolutely unacceptable.NFF has provided him all the resources to be successful but he failed because of his incompetence,fecklessness and ineptness.
Has this our "most prolific scorer" in Europe ever played in a match for Nigeria? How prolific was he when hve did so? Man gerrara hia.
Re: Rohr should be queried over South Africa-
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:44 pm
by bully12
1naija wrote:
bully12 wrote:The guy definitely needs to be queried to explain why he blatantly refused to feature our most prolific scorer in Europe instead played bench warming ,fringe and inconsequential players in their various clubs. If the guy is incapable of using our best players he should resign . Nobody goes to war without his best armaments. An excuse you don't how to use them is absolutely unacceptable.NFF has provided him all the resources to be successful but he failed because of his incompetence,fecklessness and ineptness.
If the boy scored 25 times for his club surely he did not score all those goals fortuitously. Perhaps something is wrong with Rohr's system . Hence Rohr needs to adjust to bring the best out of the boy.
Has this our "most prolific scorer" in Europe ever played in a match for Nigeria? How prolific was he when hve did so? Man gerrara hia.
Re: Rohr should be queried over South Africa-
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:54 pm
by john12
The man has done a good job until now. The line up wasn't the best but there's no guarantee the likes of mikel, ig halo would had made a difference. They were there when we failed to qualify for 2 nations cup. As for people clamouring for our best players at local league. Wel, you can start yourself. Whatever profession you're doing overseas, resign and move back to Nigeria. When many people can do that then professionals will listen to you
Re: Rohr should be queried over South Africa-
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:40 pm
by Ugbowo
The technical committee should coach the SE
Re: Rohr should be queried over South Africa-
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:28 pm
by Prince
Enugu II wrote:
ohenhen1 wrote:
Striker wrote:Looking at the game, it seems we were outcoached. If it had been a Nigerian coach, we will be inundated with how South Africa out coached us? What do you guys think?
Local based vs Foreign based debate on CE.
My stance as always been we must get the best coach available, don't care if it is local based or foreign based. But many Nigerians think everything foreign is better. They don't value the local league. They don't value the local coaches. Local coaches don't get paid and are treated like thrash. But the oyinbo man salary is guaranteed and treated well.
Rohr is an average coach, should have never been appointed. But what is done is done. We must support the team and hope for the best.
The sad reality is we will not learn anything from this experience.
Nigeria must develop the local league and appreciate local coaches. No country has won the World cup without a strong domestic league.
Ohenhen1,
I rarely have commented on this issue of having a strong domestic league. Let me comment now. I believe that the highlighted is a dangerous interpretation of statistics. First, while it is true that no country has won the WC without a strong domestic league, it is important to examine what difference exists between those countries and Nigeria. All the countries who have a strong local domestic league and have won the world cup also have their best talents at home playing in the local leagues. In Nigeria's case, I do not know that there is anyone who will argue against the conclusion that Nigeria's top players mostly play abroad. Thus, developing your local league without having your top players playing in it means that you do not satisfy the statistical condition for winning the WC. What I am getting at is the following requirement for winning the WC: (1) a strong domestic league, (2) Having your top players playing in that league, (3) Perhaps other yet to mentioned conditions. In essence, the recipe is not just #1 but requires multiple other factors.
When we had a better league we produced better players, now its about who has the opportunity. Even in the UK with all the infrastructure, the few scouts still decide who plays footballcompare that with Brazil or Germany where everything is designed to produce the best player
Re: Rohr should be queried over South Africa-
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:03 pm
by Enugu II
Prince wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
ohenhen1 wrote:
Striker wrote:Looking at the game, it seems we were outcoached. If it had been a Nigerian coach, we will be inundated with how South Africa out coached us? What do you guys think?
Local based vs Foreign based debate on CE.
My stance as always been we must get the best coach available, don't care if it is local based or foreign based. But many Nigerians think everything foreign is better. They don't value the local league. They don't value the local coaches. Local coaches don't get paid and are treated like thrash. But the oyinbo man salary is guaranteed and treated well.
Rohr is an average coach, should have never been appointed. But what is done is done. We must support the team and hope for the best.
The sad reality is we will not learn anything from this experience.
Nigeria must develop the local league and appreciate local coaches. No country has won the World cup without a strong domestic league.
Ohenhen1,
I rarely have commented on this issue of having a strong domestic league. Let me comment now. I believe that the highlighted is a dangerous interpretation of statistics. First, while it is true that no country has won the WC without a strong domestic league, it is important to examine what difference exists between those countries and Nigeria. All the countries who have a strong local domestic league and have won the world cup also have their best talents at home playing in the local leagues. In Nigeria's case, I do not know that there is anyone who will argue against the conclusion that Nigeria's top players mostly play abroad. Thus, developing your local league without having your top players playing in it means that you do not satisfy the statistical condition for winning the WC. What I am getting at is the following requirement for winning the WC: (1) a strong domestic league, (2) Having your top players playing in that league, (3) Perhaps other yet to mentioned conditions. In essence, the recipe is not just #1 but requires multiple other factors.
When we had a better league we produced better players, now its about who has the opportunity. Even in the UK with all the infrastructure, the few scouts still decide who plays football compare that with Brazil or Germany where everything is designed to produce the best player
Prince,
I assume by a better league we refer to a league where labor is assured compensation and most of the home grounds were near attendance capacity. I assume that those factors are the critical differences between the league today and the league in the 1970s - early 1990s before our better players began to emigrate. Let know if you agree with those as the definition of better league.
Today, I believe that Nigeria produces far more quality players than we previously did. This is an assumption but I make those based on some events. One of them is the fact that mid level clubs from places like Scotland, Hungary, and Russia used to visit Nigeria and they were extremely difficult for our best players to compete against them. In fact, we reified them. Now, our best players (far larger in numbers) are all over Europe and playing in clubs much better than those that I referred to. Further, our hyped 1970s players were outwitted by the likes of Zaire who were roundly humiliated at the World Cup. Though, I sense that such WC data may be too small a sample to use as a very useful measure. Nevertheless, it is based on those factors and a few others that I assume that overall we have more quality players than ever before. Here I am referring to volume of players.
Today, our league does not assure compensation any more and only a few home grounds regularly fill up. While those two can easily be rectified, keeping the best players at home may not be reversed even when we meet those two conditions. Why? it is unlikely that level of compensation will match that in Europe where sport is fully commodified and, thus, sources of revenue are multiple assuring probability for higher labor compensation. Thus, a better league will not assure that the best Nigerian players play in it. Just my tuppence.
Re: Rohr should be queried over South Africa-
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:01 pm
by Prince
Enugu II,
You assume wrong, Form me a stronger league is when we are well in Africa winning trophies, we will start to produce quality players, the current set-up takes our kids at youth level way to early. SO we are simply sending little kids to be brainwashed in Europe without them being steeped in our footballing values.
We need to start letting our kids flow, we need to start educating our coaches early, we need to articulate our philosophy. I will never forget when Larry on this site was speaking to Yobo and he had just signed for Everton and he wanted to play Ruud VN who was the hottest striker in Europe then, The guy was looking forward to it, He told Larry "the guy go know say I'm dey game" and true to his words he marked ruud out.
We let them leave to early, they are still raw. At that level 90% is more about attitude, if they are winners in Africa they would be world beaters.
The crowd and the money will follow let us get the package right
Re: Rohr should be queried over South Africa-
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:14 pm
by Enugu II
Prince wrote:Enugu II,
You assume wrong, Form me a stronger league is when we are well in Africa winning trophies, we will start to produce quality players, the current set-up takes our kids at youth level way to early. SO we are simply sending little kids to be brainwashed in Europe without them being steeped in our footballing values.
We need to start letting our kids flow, we need to start educating our coaches early, we need to articulate our philosophy. I will never forget when Larry on this site was speaking to Yobo and he had just signed for Everton and he wanted to play Ruud VN who was the hottest striker in Europe then, The guy was looking forward to it, He told Larry "the guy go know say I'm dey game" and true to his words he marked ruud out.
We let them leave to early, they are still raw. At that level 90% is more about attitude, if they are winners in Africa they would be world beaters.
The crowd and the money will follow let us get the package right
Prince,
I think some of the things you mentioned are linked to issues of labor compensation. It is not that Nigeria lets them leave early. The players are leaving early because there is poor system of compensation and you cannot force them to stay back when there is possibility of better remuneration elsewhere. That is why you see people not only going to major clubs in Europe but going to places like India, Vietnam, Sudan, etc.
You hit the nail on the head with your analysis of what happens to their football education when they leave too early. I do not disagree with that. My only concern is that even if we repair the compensation, players may still leave because of evaluation of compensation but in that case they are more likely to leave for the better leagues rather than to Vietnam, Sudan, etc.
In terms of being winners in Africa, I feel that even under current conditions that may still be achieved because of the volume of quality players that are still produced.
Re: Rohr should be queried over South Africa-
Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:23 pm
by Bigpokey24
Prince wrote:Enugu II,
You assume wrong, Form me a stronger league is when we are well in Africa winning trophies, we will start to produce quality players, the current set-up takes our kids at youth level way to early. SO we are simply sending little kids to be brainwashed in Europe without them being steeped in our footballing values.
We need to start letting our kids flow, we need to start educating our coaches early, we need to articulate our philosophy. I will never forget when Larry on this site was speaking to Yobo and he had just signed for Everton and he wanted to play Ruud VN who was the hottest striker in Europe then, The guy was looking forward to it, He told Larry "the guy go know say I'm dey game" and true to his words he marked ruud out.
We let them leave to early, they are still raw. At that level 90% is more about attitude, if they are winners in Africa they would be world beaters.
The crowd and the money will follow let us get the package right
