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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:21 pm 
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Berti Vogts is a classic example of how Europeans with the full cooperation of the African elites are 'underdeveloping' the continent of Africa.

In a society whereby people think and are truly interested in the progress, it would have occurred to the decision makers at the NFA, Sports ministry and media that the monthly 98,000 Euro Globacom's sponsorship being paid to Berti Vogts could have drastically transformed the Nigerian soccer landscape if:

(1) If mere half of that money is pumped to the local league every month since Feb 2007 when Berti was hired, it could have gone a long way in revitalizing the local league in terms of infrastructure, marketing, security and welfare packages of the players and referees. The league would be more competitive and players would not be in hurry to join European trains. More importantly, those who could not 'make it' in Europe would be able to join the local clubs and play rather than running to India, South Korea and etal to play in division 4 leagues.

(2) If One-quarter of that monthly salary of Berti is spent every month on the developmental programs such as YSFON, Principal's Cup, Headmasters' Cup and Adebajo/Manuwa Cup. It could help in developing skills and talents of players. If the likes of Nsofor had gone through that developmental programs as it were the cases in 70s and 80s, he and others would not be missing 'sitters' in the 18th yard box because they have mastered the skills and advance above the raw 'bad attitude' developed in the street soccer. If you notice both Osaze and Mikel who truly came through the youth academy (Pepsi in the case of Mikel and Osaze in Russia before he joined Bendel Insurance), they have better ball control, positioning and vision than the Nsofor, Yak (who is actually a better finisher but a lazy bone on the field) and Utaka of this world.

3). If One-tenth of monthly salary of Berti is spent every month or quarterly in organizing coaching clinics/seminars, it will help in shaping the skills and knowledge of our local coaches.

4) If one-tenth of monthy salary of Berti is also spent every three month is putting together seminar for the referees, it will help in upgrading the skills of the officials as well as help them to keep abreast of the developmental in the rules and conducts of the games.

But sadly enough, the people that run our football, media folks and many Nigerian fans only think about short-term benefit. As such, hiring FC is the solution to the problem.

For me, it is not about the immediate benefits...It's about long-term developmental programs. At this point, I am not seeing any of those from either Berti in terms of team management or NFA in terms of its programs and administration of such programs. Neither has our 'chop- I-chop' media also showed any initiative in creating a change in our football culture and administration.

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Last edited by Toxicarrow on Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:39 pm 
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Great post but man mi, it is purely idealistic. The reality on the ground in Nigeria is based on u chop-i chop. It is not surprising that the business interests of the main actors is more important than winning matches.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:57 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:59 pm 
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Toxic don come again. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: There is none more guilty of under developng Africa than Africans.

Nigeria's biggest problem is the so called leaders and the people that allow these so called leaders get away with murder. Looat Nigerian despite hundereds of billions in oi revenue, we still do not have constant power, we do not have pipeborne water, health care, education etc. Why? You know the answer and it has nothing to do with any Whiteman.

Nigeria's football problems have nothing to do with Vogts, our problems are structural and systemic, they run deep. Do you know your beloved SE players played without insurance? Vogts was crap and he deserves to be fired but it takes stupidity to a different level to blame Vogts for all our ills. I know you and a few cryptic racist here want to blame the Whiteman, that is your perogative. But please do not write such crap and think you will get away with it.

Let us look at the rubbish written below:

Toxicarrow wrote:
Berti Vogts is a classic example how Europeans with the full cooperation of the African elites are 'underdeveloping' the continent of Africa.

In a society whereby people think and are truly interested in the progress, it would have occurred to the decision makers at the NFA, Sports ministry and media that the monthly 98,000 Euro Globacom's sponsorship being paid to Berti Vogts could have drastically transformed the Nigerian soccer landscape if:


First Off!! This is Globacom's money and they can decide how they want to spend it. This is not taxpayer's money and we really cannot tell a man how to spend his money. Besides, who says Globacom are not already investing in the Nigerian league? If thef00l who qrote this piece had done some research, he will discover that Glo actually ivest in the league despite being no more than throwing away your money.

Also, are the league asking for charity? This is like Nigeria where too many people want money or reward for doing nothing. Toxic, look at Shootin. It is a disgrace to football. I know of a Forumer here who is die hard Shootin, he went to offer his services to help, all the officials wanted was how to squander his money. Look at the clubs in Nigeria and tell me why any businessman will want to waste his money on them. Until we develope a professional mentality and learn to administer the league like a professional industry why woud anyone want to put a dime in it?

I was in Nigeria, I sat in Lagos, Benin and Warri at all the popular football joints, all they cared about was Arsenal, Manure, etc. etc When I asked why? I was told. No one there gave a damn about our league. Not one person said one positive thing about the league, they talked about fixed matches, corrupt officials, corrupt administrators etc. etc. There was a game going on at the stadium but they all preferred to watch the Arsenal game on TV. Yet you expect Adenuga to throw his money at this kind of charity.

BTW! The NFA chose Vogts and Adenuga offered to take care of his salary. The same NFA a chosen previous disastrous coaches and they are still there. Is it not time we ask for them to be removed along wth their rubbish choice of coaches? No! You will not see it that way because the NFA guys nor be oyinbo. Why should I be surprised, you still defend the crap coach that was Chief AO till today even when the evidence slaps you in the face.

Toxicarrow wrote:
(1) If mere half of that money is pumped to the local league every month since Feb 2007 when Berti was hired, it could have gone a long way in revitalizing the local league in terms of infrastructure, marketing, security and welfare packages of the players and referees. The league would be more competitive and players would not be in hurry to join European trains. More importantly, those who could 'make it' in Europe would be able to join the local clubs and play rather than running to India, South Korea and etal to play in division 4 leagues.


What a load of rubbish. Give charity to players just to keep them in the league. Throwing money at anything has never solved the problem. In fact, history tells us, it makes it worse. The angel* who wrote that must be ignorat and stupid because he realy does not know how much players earn in Europe. If he did the oloshi will not suggest a mere £50,000 monthly will keep players in Nigeria and stop them going to Europe. The f00l thinks if Adenuga gives money to the league, the players will be paid. This is what annoys me about bufoons likethis. If he know a thing about the Nigerian league, he will know players go to India because they will get paid. Adenuga and a few sponsors have put in their money and the players go months without pay.

Toxicarrow wrote:
(2) If One-quarter of that monthly salary of Berti is spent every month on the developmental programs such as YSFON, Principal's Cup, Headmasters and Adebajo/Manuwa Cup. It could help in developing skills and talents of players. If the likes of Nsofor had gone through that developmental programs as it were the cases in 70s and 80s, he and others would not be missing 'sitters' in the 18th yard box because they have mastered the skills and advance above the raw 'bad attitude' developed in the street soccer. If you notice both Osaze and Mikel who truly came through the youth academy (Pepsi in the case of Mikel and Osaze in Russia before he joined Bendel Insurance), they have better ball control, positioning and vision than the Nsofor, Yak (who is actually a better finisher but a lazy bone on the field) and Utaka of this world.


What an idiotic comment.

The Primary school, Principles cup and all such programs all existed because of the Educational system. The football and all other sports came from the schools. These system is dead today. The schools we went to in nigeria are a shadow of what they once where due to our so called leaders maladministration. I do not see how a fraction of Vogts salary can redevelope what was a world class education system, thereby facilitating a sports program.

Toxicarrow wrote:
3). If One-tenth of monthly salary of Berti is spent every month or quarterly in organizing coaching clinics/seminars, it will help in shaping the skills and knowledge of our local coaches.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If he knew what he was talking about he will not write such crap.


Toxicarrow wrote:
4) If one-tenth of monthy salary of Berti is also spent every three month is putting together seminar for the referees, it will help in upgrading the skills of the officials as well as help them to keep abreast of the developmental in the rules and conducts of the games.

But sadly enough, the people that run our football, media folks and many Nigerian fans only think about short-term benefit. As such, hiring FC is the solution to the problem.

For me, it is not about the immediate benefits...It's about long-term developmental programs. At this point, I am not seeing any of those from either Berti in terms of team management or NFA in terms of its programs and administration of such programs. Neither has our 'chop- I-chop' media also showed any initiative in creating a change in our football culture and administration.


This is a very ill informed piece by someone who obviously is not well paid at their job and want another mans pay. We do not need idealistic bullsh!t, we need realismand it is only when we realistically confront our problems we can identify and come uo with ways of dealing with them. We cannot do it from such drivel based on bad belle on what another man earns. What a load of rubbish.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:23 am 
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Waffiman wrote:
Toxic don come again. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: There is none more guilty of under developng Africa than Africans.

Nigeria's biggest problem is the so called leaders and the people that allow these so called leaders get away with murder. Looat Nigerian despite hundereds of billions in oi revenue, we still do not have constant power, we do not have pipeborne water, health care, education etc. Why? You know the answer and it has nothing to do with any Whiteman.

Nigeria's football problems have nothing to do with Vogts, our problems are structural and systemic, they run deep. Do you know your beloved SE players played without insurance? Vogts was crap and he deserves to be fired but it takes stupidity to a different level to blame Vogts for all our ills. I know you and a few cryptic racist here want to blame the Whiteman, that is your perogative. But please do not write such crap and think you will get away with it.

Let us look at the rubbish written below:

Toxicarrow wrote:
Berti Vogts is a classic example how Europeans with the full cooperation of the African elites are 'underdeveloping' the continent of Africa.

In a society whereby people think and are truly interested in the progress, it would have occurred to the decision makers at the NFA, Sports ministry and media that the monthly 98,000 Euro Globacom's sponsorship being paid to Berti Vogts could have drastically transformed the Nigerian soccer landscape if:


First Off!! This is Globacom's money and they can decide how they want to spend it. This is not taxpayer's money and we really cannot tell a man how to spend his money. Besides, who says Globacom are not already investing in the Nigerian league? If thef00l who qrote this piece had done some research, he will discover that Glo actually ivest in the league despite being no more than throwing away your money.

Also, are the league asking for charity? This is like Nigeria where too many people want money or reward for doing nothing. Toxic, look at Shootin. It is a disgrace to football. I know of a Forumer here who is die hard Shootin, he went to offer his services to help, all the officials wanted was how to squander his money. Look at the clubs in Nigeria and tell me why any businessman will want to waste his money on them. Until we develope a professional mentality and learn to administer the league like a professional industry why woud anyone want to put a dime in it?

I was in Nigeria, I sat in Lagos, Benin and Warri at all the popular football joints, all they cared about was Arsenal, Manure, etc. etc When I asked why? I was told. No one there gave a damn about our league. Not one person said one positive thing about the league, they talked about fixed matches, corrupt officials, corrupt administrators etc. etc. There was a game going on at the stadium but they all preferred to watch the Arsenal game on TV. Yet you expect Adenuga to throw his money at this kind of charity.

BTW! The NFA chose Vogts and Adenuga offered to take care of his salary. The same NFA a chosen previous disastrous coaches and they are still there. Is it not time we ask for them to be removed along wth their rubbish choice of coaches? No! You will not see it that way because the NFA guys nor be oyinbo. Why should I be surprised, you still defend the crap coach that was Chief AO till today even when the evidence slaps you in the face.

Toxicarrow wrote:
(1) If mere half of that money is pumped to the local league every month since Feb 2007 when Berti was hired, it could have gone a long way in revitalizing the local league in terms of infrastructure, marketing, security and welfare packages of the players and referees. The league would be more competitive and players would not be in hurry to join European trains. More importantly, those who could 'make it' in Europe would be able to join the local clubs and play rather than running to India, South Korea and etal to play in division 4 leagues.


What a load of rubbish. Give charity to players just to keep them in the league. Throwing money at anything has never solved the problem. In fact, history tells us, it makes it worse. The angel* who wrote that must be ignorat and stupid because he realy does not know how much players earn in Europe. If he did the oloshi will not suggest a mere £50,000 monthly will keep players in Nigeria and stop them going to Europe. The f00l thinks if Adenuga gives money to the league, the players will be paid. This is what annoys me about bufoons likethis. If he know a thing about the Nigerian league, he will know players go to India because they will get paid. Adenuga and a few sponsors have put in their money and the players go months without pay.

Toxicarrow wrote:
(2) If One-quarter of that monthly salary of Berti is spent every month on the developmental programs such as YSFON, Principal's Cup, Headmasters and Adebajo/Manuwa Cup. It could help in developing skills and talents of players. If the likes of Nsofor had gone through that developmental programs as it were the cases in 70s and 80s, he and others would not be missing 'sitters' in the 18th yard box because they have mastered the skills and advance above the raw 'bad attitude' developed in the street soccer. If you notice both Osaze and Mikel who truly came through the youth academy (Pepsi in the case of Mikel and Osaze in Russia before he joined Bendel Insurance), they have better ball control, positioning and vision than the Nsofor, Yak (who is actually a better finisher but a lazy bone on the field) and Utaka of this world.


What an idiotic comment.

The Primary school, Principles cup and all such programs all existed because of the Educational system. The football and all other sports came from the schools. These system is dead today. The schools we went to in nigeria are a shadow of what they once where due to our so called leaders maladministration. I do not see how a fraction of Vogts salary can redevelope what was a world class education system, thereby facilitating a sports program.

Toxicarrow wrote:
3). If One-tenth of monthly salary of Berti is spent every month or quarterly in organizing coaching clinics/seminars, it will help in shaping the skills and knowledge of our local coaches.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If he knew what he was talking about he will not write such crap.


Toxicarrow wrote:
4) If one-tenth of monthy salary of Berti is also spent every three month is putting together seminar for the referees, it will help in upgrading the skills of the officials as well as help them to keep abreast of the developmental in the rules and conducts of the games.

But sadly enough, the people that run our football, media folks and many Nigerian fans only think about short-term benefit. As such, hiring FC is the solution to the problem.

For me, it is not about the immediate benefits...It's about long-term developmental programs. At this point, I am not seeing any of those from either Berti in terms of team management or NFA in terms of its programs and administration of such programs. Neither has our 'chop- I-chop' media also showed any initiative in creating a change in our football culture and administration.


This is a very ill informed piece by someone who obviously is not well paid at their job and want another mans pay. We do not need idealistic bullsh!t, we need realismand it is only when we realistically confront our problems we can identify and come uo with ways of dealing with them. We cannot do it from such drivel based on bad belle on what another man earns. What a load of rubbish.


Common-sense, they said, is no 'common'. This post of Waffiman is another example of illiteracy that's "finishing" Nigerian society. However, I don't have so much time on my hand to deconstruct the post now. Hopefully, by the mid of the week I shall have time to respond to this.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:37 am 
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ISN'T IT SAD THAT...


...Nigeria chose to pay much more to achieve much less. Here's a summary of what could have been gained:

1) A large chunk of Vogts' salary.
2) A higher finish in Ghana
3) Another tournament experience for an IC.

These are what the NFA and the pro-FC's threw away just so they can have the comfort of a European parading the sidelines.

Just after Vogts was hired I asked what the NFA was doing to prepare indigenes to replace Vogts eventually. Of course, this hopeless and visionless organization had no plans. Now, if Vogts is relieved of his job, the NFA wpuld have to go back to FC's are great costs with no promise of improved performance, or go with the IC's they delight in deriding.

It is really sad to see a supposedly enlightened operation with mgmt skills like Globacom unable to point the NFA in the right direction. More than anybody else they ought to understnd the what it means to have inhouse capability and training programs. Instead they have chosen to go ahead with the NFA to stunt the growth of Nigerian soccer.

Why, for example, haven't they told the NFA that they (Globacom) would be willing to fund the development of local coaches, while the NFA in its foolhardiness, should pay for the FC of their choice?

Quite frankly, if Globacom would not use its money in an enlightened manner I'm all for severing their relationship with Nigerian football.

Right now, I'm rooting for Egypt and I hope they teach the reso fo Africans a bitter lesson.
Bell


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:47 am 
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Bell wrote:

Just after Vogts was hired I asked what the NFA was doing to prepare indigenes to replace Vogts eventually. Of course, this hopeless and visionless organization had no plans. Now, if Vogts is relieved of his job, the NFA wpuld have to go back to FC's are great costs with no promise of improved performance, or go with the IC's they delight in deriding.
Bell


Bell: Here is what I posted on the blog of a friend:

The current view of Berti about local talents not being good enough for the national team is akin to the same arrogant views that Bonfrere Jo had about the local talents during his stint as the national team's coach. We all knew what became of him and his bunch of 'European superstars' in the qualifiers of WC 2002.

Secondly, if one of the reasons for hiring the foreign coaches like Berti is to create an opportunity for our local coaches, especially the young ones like Egu, to learn (or understudy) the foreign experts, then Berti has 'tactically' defeated that objective by bringing his own assistants from Germany. At the end of the day, the likes of Egu and Ike are turned to mere scouts[sp] on other teams. It is purely ridiculous that this is happening. While Westerhof, from time to time, hired Bonfrere Jo and paid him from his pocket, during major competitions, he never really sidelined his local assistants like Berti is doing now....To make the matter worse, the zombies in the glass house (NFA) are even the ones paying these assistants of Berti. So how do we want to develop our local coaches and talents for future, in view of these situations? As Fela would say, "Soldiers go, Soldiers come" !

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:53 am 
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I am still yowning, so when are they gonna fire this guy ??


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:59 am 
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toxicarrow, YOU KNOW...


...I've never bought into this NFA crap of local coaches understudying the FC's. It's just a rude ruse by the NFA to justify their prefernce for FC's (Isn't this the same org that called the Nigerian assistant the head coach to make it acceptable to the public?). When was the last time these glorified flunkies were ever considered for the job?
Bell


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:21 am 
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Toxicarrow I am with Waffiman on this one. Throwing money at a problem is the american mondel but the problems in Nigeria are much deeper. A neighbor of mine is a lead teacher at a primary school. She was sent a straigth A student recently and she put the student in the next appropriate class only to be told by the teacher that she can't read nor write. The lead teacher had to do herself a test to teh student to evaluate what she knew to send her to another class. When grades become meaningless you know the problem is serious. How many talented students will be turned down not offered opportunitie because of the conception that their grades do not reflect their abilities. Now to train good players you need youth coaches who are honest to that ressources can be thrown at those who have shown talents. Now if you have a bunch of corrupt youth coaches, no matter how much money you throww at them you will hardly find any new talent. At best the coaches will get richer.


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camex, IF YOU HATE THROWING MONEY AT A PROBLEM...


...how do you justify the NFA-Globacom unholy alliance throwing same at FC's?

Not throwing money at a problem could have meant using a fraction of that money for IC's. Not throwing money at a problem could have meant trying to address the youth coach corruption that you allege, I think.
Bell


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Bell wrote:
camex, IF YOU HATE THROWING MONEY AT A PROBLEM...


...how do you justify the NFA-Globacom unholy alliance throwing same at FC's?

Not throwing money at a problem could have meant using a fraction of that money for IC's. Not throwing money at a problem could have meant trying to address the youth coach corruption that you allege, I think.
Bell


We should be throwing idea's and solution at the problem


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Bell wrote:
camex, IF YOU HATE THROWING MONEY AT A PROBLEM...


...how do you justify the NFA-Globacom unholy alliance throwing same at FC's?

Not throwing money at a problem could have meant using a fraction of that money for IC's. Not throwing money at a problem could have meant trying to address the youth coach corruption that you allege, I think.
Bell


Bell, I am takign about corruption in general and I took the example in education where I have some experience. What I dont understand about Nigeria is why soccer academies dont turn as many young players in good teams in Europe as in Cameroon, CIV, at least per capita. And corruption/fraud at youth level is I think the root of the problem.
But Bell how many IC have solid credential at clubs level. Personnally I dont think a national team has the time to be used to train coaches. We do not enough time for that. Training coaches should be done at clubs level where they have many more games.


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Nice one and well written piece.



Waffiman wrote:
Toxic don come again. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: There is none more guilty of under developng Africa than Africans.

Nigeria's biggest problem is the so called leaders and the people that allow these so called leaders get away with murder. Looat Nigerian despite hundereds of billions in oi revenue, we still do not have constant power, we do not have pipeborne water, health care, education etc. Why? You know the answer and it has nothing to do with any Whiteman.

Nigeria's football problems have nothing to do with Vogts, our problems are structural and systemic, they run deep. Do you know your beloved SE players played without insurance? Vogts was crap and he deserves to be fired but it takes stupidity to a different level to blame Vogts for all our ills. I know you and a few cryptic racist here want to blame the Whiteman, that is your perogative. But please do not write such crap and think you will get away with it.

Let us look at the rubbish written below:

Toxicarrow wrote:
Berti Vogts is a classic example how Europeans with the full cooperation of the African elites are 'underdeveloping' the continent of Africa.

In a society whereby people think and are truly interested in the progress, it would have occurred to the decision makers at the NFA, Sports ministry and media that the monthly 98,000 Euro Globacom's sponsorship being paid to Berti Vogts could have drastically transformed the Nigerian soccer landscape if:


First Off!! This is Globacom's money and they can decide how they want to spend it. This is not taxpayer's money and we really cannot tell a man how to spend his money. Besides, who says Globacom are not already investing in the Nigerian league? If thef00l who qrote this piece had done some research, he will discover that Glo actually ivest in the league despite being no more than throwing away your money.

Also, are the league asking for charity? This is like Nigeria where too many people want money or reward for doing nothing. Toxic, look at Shootin. It is a disgrace to football. I know of a Forumer here who is die hard Shootin, he went to offer his services to help, all the officials wanted was how to squander his money. Look at the clubs in Nigeria and tell me why any businessman will want to waste his money on them. Until we develope a professional mentality and learn to administer the league like a professional industry why woud anyone want to put a dime in it?

I was in Nigeria, I sat in Lagos, Benin and Warri at all the popular football joints, all they cared about was Arsenal, Manure, etc. etc When I asked why? I was told. No one there gave a damn about our league. Not one person said one positive thing about the league, they talked about fixed matches, corrupt officials, corrupt administrators etc. etc. There was a game going on at the stadium but they all preferred to watch the Arsenal game on TV. Yet you expect Adenuga to throw his money at this kind of charity.

BTW! The NFA chose Vogts and Adenuga offered to take care of his salary. The same NFA a chosen previous disastrous coaches and they are still there. Is it not time we ask for them to be removed along wth their rubbish choice of coaches? No! You will not see it that way because the NFA guys nor be oyinbo. Why should I be surprised, you still defend the crap coach that was Chief AO till today even when the evidence slaps you in the face.

Toxicarrow wrote:
(1) If mere half of that money is pumped to the local league every month since Feb 2007 when Berti was hired, it could have gone a long way in revitalizing the local league in terms of infrastructure, marketing, security and welfare packages of the players and referees. The league would be more competitive and players would not be in hurry to join European trains. More importantly, those who could 'make it' in Europe would be able to join the local clubs and play rather than running to India, South Korea and etal to play in division 4 leagues.


What a load of rubbish. Give charity to players just to keep them in the league. Throwing money at anything has never solved the problem. In fact, history tells us, it makes it worse. The angel* who wrote that must be ignorat and stupid because he realy does not know how much players earn in Europe. If he did the oloshi will not suggest a mere £50,000 monthly will keep players in Nigeria and stop them going to Europe. The f00l thinks if Adenuga gives money to the league, the players will be paid. This is what annoys me about bufoons likethis. If he know a thing about the Nigerian league, he will know players go to India because they will get paid. Adenuga and a few sponsors have put in their money and the players go months without pay.

Toxicarrow wrote:
(2) If One-quarter of that monthly salary of Berti is spent every month on the developmental programs such as YSFON, Principal's Cup, Headmasters and Adebajo/Manuwa Cup. It could help in developing skills and talents of players. If the likes of Nsofor had gone through that developmental programs as it were the cases in 70s and 80s, he and others would not be missing 'sitters' in the 18th yard box because they have mastered the skills and advance above the raw 'bad attitude' developed in the street soccer. If you notice both Osaze and Mikel who truly came through the youth academy (Pepsi in the case of Mikel and Osaze in Russia before he joined Bendel Insurance), they have better ball control, positioning and vision than the Nsofor, Yak (who is actually a better finisher but a lazy bone on the field) and Utaka of this world.


What an idiotic comment.

The Primary school, Principles cup and all such programs all existed because of the Educational system. The football and all other sports came from the schools. These system is dead today. The schools we went to in nigeria are a shadow of what they once where due to our so called leaders maladministration. I do not see how a fraction of Vogts salary can redevelope what was a world class education system, thereby facilitating a sports program.

Toxicarrow wrote:
3). If One-tenth of monthly salary of Berti is spent every month or quarterly in organizing coaching clinics/seminars, it will help in shaping the skills and knowledge of our local coaches.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If he knew what he was talking about he will not write such crap.


Toxicarrow wrote:
4) If one-tenth of monthy salary of Berti is also spent every three month is putting together seminar for the referees, it will help in upgrading the skills of the officials as well as help them to keep abreast of the developmental in the rules and conducts of the games.

But sadly enough, the people that run our football, media folks and many Nigerian fans only think about short-term benefit. As such, hiring FC is the solution to the problem.

For me, it is not about the immediate benefits...It's about long-term developmental programs. At this point, I am not seeing any of those from either Berti in terms of team management or NFA in terms of its programs and administration of such programs. Neither has our 'chop- I-chop' media also showed any initiative in creating a change in our football culture and administration.


This is a very ill informed piece by someone who obviously is not well paid at their job and want another mans pay. We do not need idealistic bullsh!t, we need realismand it is only when we realistically confront our problems we can identify and come uo with ways of dealing with them. We cannot do it from such drivel based on bad belle on what another man earns. What a load of rubbish.

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Waffiman wrote:
Nigeria's football problems have nothing to do with Vogts, our problems are structural and systemic, they run deep.


Yes, Nigeria's football problem is systemic...But how do you fix it? Hiring a FC and then believe all is well? In dealing with the structural problem, you have to look inward and build from grassroot rather going abroad and get a "quick fix solution in name of FC to solve". Without a radical overhaul of football culture, you can not advance and develop the game. The league needs to be restructured and then be improved in terms of the competitive level. The stadia need to renovated in order not to "kill" players because of the bad pitches. More importantly, np country has ever made it big in global without a developmental programs at the grassroot. Today, the likes of Ivory Coast, Mali and Senegal are the reaping the fruits pf their investment on the youth developmental programs. Egypt today shows us the importance of building from inward by having a strong local league and developing local coaches and players in the system.

Waffiman wrote:
Do you know your beloved SE players played without insurance?


Pure white lie ! Another evidence of beer-parlour gossip that has been turned to fact. Chief N. O. Idowu insured all the SE players that played in the ANC 2008 and he has been doing that since 1994 ANC. In the words, Chief N.O. Idowu took upon himself as part of his contribution to Nigerian football to insure SE players in ANC.

While it's could be argued that in an ideal world NFA ought to be one doing this, it could also be said it could not really do this because of elephant projects such as 98,000 Euro Berti or misplaced priorities.

Waffiman wrote:
Vogts was crap and he deserves to be fired but it takes stupidity to a different level to blame Vogts for all our ills.


Your above statement further proves my point about the level of ignorance that has made Nigeria to be at the lowest level. IF could simply read and understand figurative expression in what I wrote, you could have decoded that underlying message in what I wrote. But what do I expect from you? Intellectual liability/

Waffiman wrote:
I know you and a few cryptic racist here want to blame the Whiteman, that is your perogative. But please do not write such crap and think you will get away with it.


But what do I expect from you, a chronic Intellectual liability.... When you can't make a compelling sound argument, a race card is often the one to be "flashed" in order to create a binary pole of "us and them".... as such it helps to move the rational discourse to the idiotic level - the level in which intellectual liabilities like you can only operate.

Quote:
First Off!! This is Globacom's money and they can decide how they want to spend it.


Yes, it is Globacom's money, but it is being given to the NFA in a form of sponsorship for the Nigerian football...basically to hire a FC for the SE.

Waffiman wrote:
Look at the clubs in Nigeria and tell me why any businessman will want to waste his money on them. Until we develope a professional mentality and learn to administer the league like a professional industry why woud anyone want to put a dime in it?


Nobody wants to invest in the clubs because the league is not viable enough in terms of marketing, promotion, competition and etal. That's why, NFA needs to reexamine its priorities and put some of the money being wasted on the FCs into the local leagues and make it a revenue-generating league.

Just for your information (since you mentioned Sooting), let me tell you this. When league was still league in the 1990s, specifically between 1992 and 1996, Sooting not only got sponsorship/endorsement from local businesses such as Fan Milk, it also got international sponsorship from Hummel (Picture of the team is still Hummel's foreign office till today). The likes of Pa AO and Chief Femi Olukanmi built a strong Sooting that not only won 1992 CAF Cup, it went to be the top club in the country and among the best in continent. The feeder's team of the team was so strong that bulk of the players that made names for themselves at the 1996 Championship came through feeder's/youth systems that these visionary managers put in place in the form of partnerships with amateur teams such as Exide of Ibadan and foreign clubs such as FC Zurich.

Such feat was possible because the league was not a joke as we have it today. And the league gradually became a joke because NFA was not really interested in the league development any longer. In fact, one could argue that NFA does not really care about other teams such as Falcons. It only cares about SE. As such lion's share of the sponsorship/FIFA money collected are being spent on SE (FC and players' allowances) and estacodes.


Quote:
I was in Nigeria, I sat in Lagos, Benin and Warri at all the popular football joints, all they cared about was Arsenal, Manure, etc. etc When I asked why? I was told. No one there gave a damn about our league. Not one person said one positive thing about the league, they talked about fixed matches, corrupt officials, corrupt administrators etc. etc. There was a game going on at the stadium but they all preferred to watch the Arsenal game on TV. Yet you expect


People are not interested in the league as mentioned above because of the poor standard of it and marketing. This is the reason that it needs be restructured and developed.


Quote:
The Primary school, Principles cup and all such programs all existed because of the Educational system. The football and all other sports came from the schools. These system is dead today. The schools we went to in nigeria are a shadow of what they once where due to our so called leaders maladministration. I do not see how a fraction of Vogts salary can redevelope what was a world class education system, thereby facilitating a sports program.


The mere fact is dead means that it needs to be revived. Without the youth programs, you can not develop new talents. And those programs "passed away" in the first instance due to the absence of fund...if a fraction of money being wasted on Berti every month is put back into these programs, the nation will have a reserve of talents.

Anyways, I am running out of time...I will respond to the rest later.

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Last edited by Toxicarrow on Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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camex wrote:
Toxicarrow I am with Waffiman on this one. Throwing money at a problem is the american mondel but the problems in Nigeria are much deeper. A neighbor of mine is a lead teacher at a primary school. She was sent a straigth A student recently and she put the student in the next appropriate class only to be told by the teacher that she can't read nor write. The lead teacher had to do herself a test to teh student to evaluate what she knew to send her to another class. When grades become meaningless you know the problem is serious. How many talented students will be turned down not offered opportunitie because of the conception that their grades do not reflect their abilities. Now to train good players you need youth coaches who are honest to that ressources can be thrown at those who have shown talents. Now if you have a bunch of corrupt youth coaches, no matter how much money you throww at them you will hardly find any new talent. At best the coaches will get richer.


Camex:

It is not the question of throwing money at the problem. It is the question of investing the money in the right projects/programmes. In 12 months, we spent 98,000 Euro X 12 on Vogts, what are the benefits of huge investment on Nigerian soccer?

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Last edited by Toxicarrow on Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Yiba wrote:
Great post but man mi, it is purely idealistic. The reality on the ground in Nigeria is based on u chop-i chop. It is not surprising that the business interests of the main actors is more important than winning matches.

Remind the moderator/author about real life not economic & sociological theories.

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Yiba wrote:
Great post but man mi, it is purely idealistic. The reality on the ground in Nigeria is based on u chop-i chop. It is not surprising that the business interests of the main actors is more important than winning matches.


You are absolutely right on the chop-I-chop mentality of the actors - NFA, coaches, players, media and even fans. The ADIDAS contract is an example of how individual selfish interest takes priority over collective interest. We all living witnesses to even drama that unfolded here on CE from some of their actors that wanted their own share of the national cake through that contract.

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tolahs wrote:
Yiba wrote:
Great post but man mi, it is purely idealistic. The reality on the ground in Nigeria is based on u chop-i chop. It is not surprising that the business interests of the main actors is more important than winning matches.

Remind the moderator/author about real life not economic & sociological theories.


While as IBB mentioned that Nigerian society does not obey or follow economic theories, it is still possible to see change in the society by following an unconventional way. Who could have imagined about a decade ago that the banking sector of Nigerian sector could operate with level of professionalism and being transformed to a pillar of the economy today? Obviously not of many....But when you have a man of vision in charge of the sector, there is possibility of transformation. Today, Soludo, Ngozi and few others made investment in the banking sector something that could bring maximum return. So, if the Nigerian society gets its priority in the sports arena, our football development could be a pride of Africa.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:46 pm 
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Toxic sadly continues to betray the same ignorance he has steadfastly held on to for decades now.

The problem with developing Nigerian football today is not about the SE. That is why successes in the mid to late 90s by the SE had little or no impact on the quality of the NPL and thus the domestic game. Conversely, the quality of the SE is a factor of player transfer to Europe and the ability of such players to break into top European teams and subsequently transfer their form to the NT.

Developing Nigerian football is about the NPL. Its about the organization and quality of football of the teams in the domestic game, like Shooting and Rangers; and the ability of the coaches therein to transform raw talent into international class footballers.

To now parrot Berti Vogts and his pay packet as instrumental to the underdeveloped nature of Nigerian football is simply a case of ignorance or mischief...

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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:53 am 
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Waffiman wrote:
If he knew what he was talking about he will not write such crap.


Toxicarrow wrote:
4) If one-tenth of monthy salary of Berti is also spent every three month is putting together seminar for the referees, it will help in upgrading the skills of the officials as well as help them to keep abreast of the developmental in the rules and conducts of the games.

But sadly enough, the people that run our football, media folks and many Nigerian fans only think about short-term benefit. As such, hiring FC is the solution to the problem.

For me, it is not about the immediate benefits...It's about long-term developmental programs. At this point, I am not seeing any of those from either Berti in terms of team management or NFA in terms of its programs and administration of such programs. Neither has our 'chop- I-chop' media also showed any initiative in creating a change in our football culture and administration.


This is a very ill informed piece by someone who obviously is not well paid at their job and want another mans pay. We do not need idealistic bullsh!t, we need realismand it is only when we realistically confront our problems we can identify and come uo with ways of dealing with them. We cannot do it from such drivel based on bad belle on what another man earns. What a load of rubbish.


Oh !Jesus :lol: :lol: See me, see trouble.....Now it's because Iam not "well paid" at my job, and i want "berti's salary" ! :lol: :lol: :lol: See reasoning of our resident intellectual midget.

Well. for your information, unlike some of you, I am not an agent. Neither am I like you and your gang that always "storm" the players' camp "for handouts from players/coaches/officials" and "paid for odekus and isi-ewu at Mama Calabar" (courtesy of players and their managers) :lol: :lol:

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Toxic, I'm with you all the way. What you are suggesting is exactly what Brazil decided to do after trying the shortcut i.e. fire brigade approach we are doing now without any success. They heavily invested in their national team, their under developed league suffered with players always seeking greener pastures at every whim, they went through an array of coaches and went 24 yrs before repeating WC success. They went back to the basics and invested in their leagues. Today, clubs in Brazil easily sell players at the going rate in Europe and a lot of their players including national team players go back to or come from the local league.
Truth is there's evidence of this of those that have sought self actualization and decided not to slave to the Europeans. Look at the United States, in 1994, they capped players from all sorts of countries to make a team. After that went and developed the game locally establishing the MLS which included training and equipping their local coaches. Bruce Arena took them to the quarter finals something we've never achieved. When did the US start playing football? Today, they'll give any team a run for their money. Canada has not woken up to soccer so remain minnows although the success in the US has rubbed off on them. In any case their female team is world class and when they decide to take to footy, they'll be up there too. Already more kids are signing for soccer than hockey. In ten years they'll be respectable while Nigeria might still be looking for its white witchdoctor. Ok I digressed a little.
We're only kidding ourselves if we don't make a conscious effort to revive our league, it's the little we can do. Check out how many players CIV got from just one credible academy and the impact on the national team. The day we decide to start facing our problems, we'll start to climb, otherwise we remain in the dark.

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felarey wrote:
Toxic, I'm with you all the way. What you are suggesting is exactly what Brazil decided to do after trying the shortcut i.e. fire brigade approach we are doing now without any success. They heavily invested in their national team, their under developed league suffered with players always seeking greener pastures at every whim, they went through an array of coaches and went 24 yrs before repeating WC success. They went back to the basics and invested in their leagues. Today, clubs in Brazil easily sell players at the going rate in Europe and a lot of their players including national team players go back to or come from the local league.
Truth is there's evidence of this of those that have sought self actualization and decided not to slave to the Europeans. Look at the United States, in 1994, they capped players from all sorts of countries to make a team. After that went and developed the game locally establishing the MLS which included training and equipping their local coaches. Bruce Arena took them to the quarter finals something we've never achieved. When did the US start playing football? Today, they'll give any team a run for their money. Canada has not woken up to soccer so remain minnows although the success in the US has rubbed off on them. In any case their female team is world class and when they decide to take to footy, they'll be up there too. Already more kids are signing for soccer than hockey. In ten years they'll be respectable while Nigeria might still be looking for its white witchdoctor. Ok I digressed a little.
We're only kidding ourselves if we don't make a conscious effort to revive our league, it's the little we can do. Check out how many players CIV got from just one credible academy and the impact on the national team. The day we decide to start facing our problems, we'll start to climb, otherwise we remain in the dark.


Felarey:

Well-said....One of the problems with Nigeria and Nigerians is that we always look down on the anything "local" ! Just look at this forum and you will see examples of such mentality. An example is when the donation drive was going on....Many of the so-called foreign based CEs quickly assumed that the local CEs are living in abject poverty and such could afford to pay 20 dollars. Arguments were made that those guys should only be asked to pay "less than 20 dollars" ! Who said being "foreign" means better lives and higher level?

The same mentality is being displayed in terms of our football culture and management. It is believed that foreign coach and foreign-based players equal to higher level of professionalism and organizational skills. Over and over, this notion has been proved wrong on many levels. For instance, prior to 1993, all members of under-20 and under-17 are often drawn from the local league. But from 1993 onward with James Peter coached Flying Eagles set of Okocha, Patrick Mancha, Taribo West and others, we started to depend on the foreign-based players for these age-group competitions. Behold, what happened? We could hardly qualify for these same age-group tournaments that we used to dominate?

However, recently, when some coaches went back to the "traditional route" and depended on more raw talents from local league/setting NOT of those 'dry fishes/bones' from Europe, things changed drastically in terms of results and playing pattern. Some Examples: Golden Eaglets (with majority of players being "local") won 2007 WC and 2001 Silver medal. Also, 2005 Flying Eagles (with majority being local) qualified unlike their 2003, 2001 squads qualified from Africa and even won silver medal.

That being said, if the local league are developed and strongly marketed, many of the Nigerian players would have been matured before joining "foreign league" (when they do). By being matured in the league, it will help them in making waves abroad. Unlike the present dispensation whereby 100 players go for trial and only one makes it, in the mid-80s till mid-90s when the league was strong, vast majority of the Nigerians walked straight to the starting line-up of the European/African clubs. Examples of Keshi, Finidi, Taiwo in Holland, Uche Okechukwu, Ikpeba, Monye and etal. Today, that's not the case. Many are failing by the roadside, ending up as collateral materials for clubs to use for loan purpose.

No matter how people try to downplay the importance of local league and youth program, it is still needed. There is no development or future for Nigerian soccer without a well-organized league and grassroot developmental programs for young talents. A stronger league will also help clubs to make money from the transfer of players to foreign clubs. Today, Chelsea and Lyn are smilling to bank on Mikel Obi, who they got as a peanut from Plateau United.

If our league is being run with professionalism or as business venture, clubs will not just 'accept' peanut for any players. More importantly, many unregistered agents that are just selling some of the young players to 'modern-day slavery' will be eliminated or drastically forced to minimal level.

Lastly, many of the appointments to the boards of clubs and even NFA will not be "political appointees" because clubs and football administration will no longer be under the offices of governors or ministers. Neither shall we see our supporter's members and NFA officials's girlfriends and friends having better official kits than the team that's representing the country at the major tournament as many saw in Philly in 2003 when Falcons were here.

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