Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by theYemster »

Odas wrote:
theYemster wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
Odas wrote:Switching to every four years is not a good idea, but perhaps they have their reasoning for wanting to make the switch. Let's wait and see what the reasons are. On the other hand, why wanting to change the AFCON tournament to June? Is June not raining season for many West African nations?
They had stated the reasons prior to Ahmad's election and it is clearly kowtowing to UEFA and FOFA. This was part of the deal with FIFA. The stated reasons is because of club v country conflict and having all the Confederations have their nations cup in the same cycle and month. Unfortunately, they did not address the weather or the financial doubts.
I remember making these suggestions years ago regarding switching to the summer and having it in odd years. Yujam and I had a lengthy argument about it and I told him it was only a matter of time.

Four year cycle is good. We have the CHAN to substitute every other year.
"theYemster", you did not address the "raining season" issue which many West African nations (Nigeria for example) deal with in the months of June, July and some parts of August
That was the argument against the proposal then and my suggestion was that host nations should integrate drainage systems into their stadiums.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Enugu II »

folem wrote:
Olayemi14 wrote:Agreed. Copa is every 4 years but CAF needs more regular footy. We barely play friendly games as it is. UEFA are encouraging more participation across the board but this will kill African footy. We do not have the infrastructure and regional footy is not it.
folem wrote:
Olayemi14 wrote:The South American Championship is held every 2 years and they only have 10 federations to deal with. Footy will suffer in the small countries if we do not have AFCON every 2 years. A lot of tiny islands/countries will end up playing 2 qualifiers every 4 years as opposed to the same every 2 years. As it is, they are not competitive in the continental club cups either. What will they be left with? Sunday, Sunday footy?
The regional championships are crap other than the organization of the Southern African regional cup. Does WAFU even exist any longer? I have never heard of Cameroon being involved in a regional championship. I could be wrong.
Perhaps, a middle ground will be to have the AFCON every 4 years and CHAN in between. The AFCON winner can play in the Confederation cup which will probably be scrapped in the future. It will work in the favor of the smaller countries but Nigeria and Cameroon are going to be F....
CONMEBOL reverted to 4 years interval immediately FIFA proposed it.
You need to understand the genesis of restructuring the football calendar. It has been on since Havelange era but only got finalised during Blatter era. There was a need to have a harmonised calendar. With the calendar everybody gets regular footy.
Folem,

The highlighted is not necessarily true. There are other adjustments needed. For instance, the proposed increase to 24 teams and the introduction of the CHAN, which are not directly linked to a harmonized calendar, are instruments to solve the issue raised by Olayemi14. Take a country like Lesotho or Chad (smaller countries), with a 4 -year cycle for AFCON, they face the prospects of being eliminated early in the AFCON qualifiers and then face years of inactivity. A harmonized calendar does not easily solve that problem. What helps will be the CHAN and the increase in number of finalists to AFCON. Another way to deal with that issue is stop the two-legged elimination in the qualifiers and use a system where teams automatically play in a league phase to assure each team multiple games.

Also, it is important to note that the AFCON fixture for the winter was part of the initial harmonized calendar set forth under Blatter. The confederations agreed to have their competitions restricted to a window in the Winter and a window in the Summer. In turn, the European leagues were supposed to reduce the number of teams in their premier divisions to 16 teams only. CAF carried out its end of the deal by moving the AFCON from March (original schedule for AFCON) to the winter months (Jan/Feb) to satisfy the harmonized calendar but the European leagues including EPL refused to reduce number of teams in their premier division. Since then, these leagues (having reneged in previous negotiated process) continued to pressure for the further change, which CAF has now apparently conceded. The question is: Will it end there? But that is the story behind these events.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by folem »

Enugu II wrote:
folem wrote:
Olayemi14 wrote:Agreed. Copa is every 4 years but CAF needs more regular footy. We barely play friendly games as it is. UEFA are encouraging more participation across the board but this will kill African footy. We do not have the infrastructure and regional footy is not it.
folem wrote:
Olayemi14 wrote:The South American Championship is held every 2 years and they only have 10 federations to deal with. Footy will suffer in the small countries if we do not have AFCON every 2 years. A lot of tiny islands/countries will end up playing 2 qualifiers every 4 years as opposed to the same every 2 years. As it is, they are not competitive in the continental club cups either. What will they be left with? Sunday, Sunday footy?
The regional championships are crap other than the organization of the Southern African regional cup. Does WAFU even exist any longer? I have never heard of Cameroon being involved in a regional championship. I could be wrong.
Perhaps, a middle ground will be to have the AFCON every 4 years and CHAN in between. The AFCON winner can play in the Confederation cup which will probably be scrapped in the future. It will work in the favor of the smaller countries but Nigeria and Cameroon are going to be F....
CONMEBOL reverted to 4 years interval immediately FIFA proposed it.
You need to understand the genesis of restructuring the football calendar. It has been on since Havelange era but only got finalised during Blatter era. There was a need to have a harmonised calendar. With the calendar everybody gets regular footy.
Folem,

The highlighted is not necessarily true. There are other adjustments needed. For instance, the proposed increase to 24 teams and the introduction of the CHAN, which are not directly linked to a harmonized calendar, are instruments to solve the issue raised by Olayemi14. Take a country like Lesotho or Chad (smaller countries), with a 4 -year cycle for AFCON, they face the prospects of being eliminated early in the AFCON qualifiers and then face years of inactivity. A harmonized calendar does not easily solve that problem. What helps will be the CHAN and the increase in number of finalists to AFCON. Another way to deal with that issue is stop the two-legged elimination in the qualifiers and use a system where teams automatically play in a league phase to assure each team multiple games.

Also, it is important to note that the AFCON fixture for the winter was part of the initial harmonized calendar set forth under Blatter. The confederations agreed to have their competitions restricted to a window in the Winter and a window in the Summer. In turn, the European leagues were supposed to reduce the number of teams in their premier divisions to 16 teams only. CAF carried out its end of the deal by moving the AFCON from March (original schedule for AFCON) to the winter months (Jan/Feb) to satisfy the harmonized calendar but the European leagues including EPL refused to reduce number of teams in their premier division. Since then, these leagues (having reneged in previous negotiated process) continued to pressure for the further change, which CAF has now apparently conceded. The question is: Will it end there? But that is the story behind these events.
E II.

You have captured many of the issues. I believe the leagues were supposed have no more than 18 teams. Some leagues have instead increased the number of teams including Nigeria. If CAF adopts the 4 year cycle a lot of match days will be freed up to allow round robin qualifying series involving all MAs just like UEFA.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Olayemi14 »

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/40657296
Dramatic changes to Africa's top competition now await rubber-stamping by the executive committee of the Confederation of African Football (Caf) after recommendations made at a conference in Morocco on Wednesday.

The showpiece Africa Cup of Nations finals is set to be expanded and its contentious timing changed, but its frequency will remain every two years.

The tournament is likely to be moved to June and July, instead of January and February, and will increase from 16 to 24 teams.

ADVERTISEMENT

The two annual club competitions - the African Champions League and African Confederation Cup - are likely to run from August to May rather than inside a calendar year, as has been the case for decades.

It will increase revenue for Caf and we can triple our income

NFF President Amaju Pinnick on Nations Cup expansion
Changes to refereeing structures, coaching standards and medical preparedness were also recommended.

Caf's executive committee meets in Rabat on Thursday and is expected to formalise all the major recommendations.

"From a sporting perspective, it will allow more opportunity for footballers across the continent," said Nigerian Football Federation president Amaju Pinnick.

The insistence the Nations Cup should stay in January, which has often infuriated European clubs as they lose their African players during the season, could soon be a thing of the past.

But Africa's flagship sporting event will still be played every two years as the tournament is a leading source of revenue for Caf, which would lose half of that money should the finals be played every four years, as some proposed.

There was no opposition to the change of the timing of the finals, which will please African players based at European clubs, who are regularly involved in a club-versus-country row every two years.

The increase in the number of finalists is an attempt to increase marketing and TV revenue, talking a leaf out of the book of Uefa whose European Championship increased in size in 2016.

"It will increase revenue for Caf and we can triple our income," added Pinnick. "It will also force more infrastructure development."

The symposium also recommended that requirements for hosting the Nations Cup must be increased, particularly around the issue of pitches and hotels, whose poor quality has drawn heavy criticism at recent finals.

Mamelodi Sundowns
Mamelodi Sundowns won the 2016 African Champions League
This year's expansion of the number of clubs in the Champions League and Confederation Cup has meant the top teams in Africa have been forced to play group matches between May and July.

Usually, many of these sides would be enjoying end-of-season holidays prior to preparing for a new campaign.

The criticism of the dates has led to the recommendation that the Champions League and Confederation Cup will run from August to May - possibly as early as next year.

Similar to the European Champions League, the group phase would be finished by the end of year to allow the quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals to be completed by May.

Analysis

John Bennett, Football reporter, BBC World Service

I've spoken to many African footballers who feel having the Africa Cup of Nations in January has damaged their careers in European football.

A Bundesliga player once told me his manager put pressure on him not go and after coming back from the tournament he never regained his place in the team.

A Serie A star said it takes weeks to recover from the exhaustion of playing in the intense Nations Cup and it led to him losing form.

And others have told me it puts clubs off signing them, when they know they'll miss six weeks of the season.

So that's why this news will be welcomed by the vast majority of the players. Particularly the big names. And of course Premier League managers will be delighted. 26 players from the English top flight went to the last Nations Cup.

The huge negative is the weather. It'll be almost impossible for some countries in Africa to host the tournament because extremely hot and wet conditions in June will not be suitable for football.

Some will also be angry with the sense that African football is being dictated to by European football.

Increasing the tournament to 24 teams is also controversial.

Yes it allows more teams to qualify and will increase income but will the quality be diluted? And how many nations will have the infrastructure to host eight more teams?
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Enugu II »

This story captures the issues. Staying on 2-year cycle is clearly a recognition of the revenue issue that I had mentioned.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by camex »

Olayemi14 wrote:The South American Championship is held every 2 years and they only have 10 federations to deal with. Footy will suffer in the small countries if we do not have AFCON every 2 years. A lot of tiny islands/countries will end up playing 2 qualifiers every 4 years as opposed to the same every 2 years. As it is, they are not competitive in the continental club cups either. What will they be left with? Sunday, Sunday footy?
The regional championships are crap other than the organization of the Southern African regional cup. Does WAFU even exist any longer? I have never heard of Cameroon being involved in a regional championship. I could be wrong.
Perhaps, a middle ground will be to have the AFCON every 4 years and CHAN in between. The AFCON winner can play in the Confederation cup which will probably be scrapped in the future. It will work in the favor of the smaller countries but Nigeria and Cameroon are going to be F....
I concur. Nations that rarely go to the world cup wont play much under this system. I am not against it but I would like to hear about the liks of Chad or Mauritius think about it.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Bigpokey24 »

why will Cameroon be striped ?
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Bigpokey24 »

You all fail to see the beauty of having AFCON every 4 years.. and no African team will suffer from playing it every 4 years... it will become bigger and many nations will take it super serious.. no more teams dropping out... with that said there will be plenty of football.. the qualifying groups will be bigger and better.. also 24 teams will ensure at least some top teams won't fail to qualify ... by the way we also have 9.5 spot at the world-cup coming up... even the so called weather thingy ... abegi.. we have countries in the north, south east and west that can host.... rain won't be a factor

Football should all have one calendar....
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by folem »

Enugu II wrote:This story captures the issues. Staying on 2-year cycle is clearly a recognition of the revenue issue that I had mentioned.
E II.

Thinking that a 2 year cycle means double revenue is simplistic. A 4 year cycle means at last 1 year to sell/market match packages and paraphernalia, more publicity and fan attention. It will ultimately lead to tourist packages for the event. In the long term you will probably get 4 times the current revenue stream that is based mainly on TV revenue projections.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Bigpokey24 »

Dramatic changes to Africa's top competition now await rubber-stamping by the executive committee of the Confederation of African Football (Caf) after recommendations made at a conference in Morocco on Wednesday.

The showpiece Africa Cup of Nations finals is set to be expanded and its contentious timing changed, but its frequency will remain every two years.

The tournament is likely to be moved to June and July, instead of January and February, and will increase from 16 to 24 teams.

The two annual club competitions - the African Champions League and African Confederation Cup - are likely to run from August to May rather than inside a calendar year, as has been the case for decades.

It will increase revenue for Caf and we can triple our income

NFF President Amaju Pinnick on Nations Cup expansion
Changes to refereeing structures, coaching standards and medical preparedness were also recommended.

Caf's executive committee meets in Rabat on Thursday and is expected to formalise all the major recommendations.

"From a sporting perspective, it will allow more opportunity for footballers across the continent," said Nigerian Football Federation president Amaju Pinnick.

The insistence the Nations Cup should stay in January, which has often infuriated European clubs as they lose their African players during the season, could soon be a thing of the past.

But Africa's flagship sporting event will still be played every two years as the tournament is a leading source of revenue for Caf, which would lose half of that money should the finals be played every four years, as some proposed.

There was no opposition to the change of the timing of the finals, which will please African players based at European clubs, who are regularly involved in a club-versus-country row every two years.

The increase in the number of finalists is an attempt to increase marketing and TV revenue, talking a leaf out of the book of Uefa whose European Championship increased in size in 2016.

"It will increase revenue for Caf and we can triple our income," added Pinnick. "It will also force more infrastructure development."

The symposium also recommended that requirements for hosting the Nations Cup must be increased, particularly around the issue of pitches and hotels, whose poor quality has drawn heavy criticism at recent finals.

Mamelodi Sundowns
Mamelodi Sundowns won the 2016 African Champions League
This year's expansion of the number of clubs in the Champions League and Confederation Cup has meant the top teams in Africa have been forced to play group matches between May and July.

Usually, many of these sides would be enjoying end-of-season holidays prior to preparing for a new campaign.

The criticism of the dates has led to the recommendation that the Champions League and Confederation Cup will run from August to May - possibly as early as next year.

Similar to the European Champions League, the group phase would be finished by the end of year to allow the quarter-finals, semi-finals and finals to be completed by May.

Analysis

John Bennett, Football reporter, BBC World Service

I've spoken to many African footballers who feel having the Africa Cup of Nations in January has damaged their careers in European football.

A Bundesliga player once told me his manager put pressure on him not go and after coming back from the tournament he never regained his place in the team.

A Serie A star said it takes weeks to recover from the exhaustion of playing in the intense Nations Cup and it led to him losing form.

And others have told me it puts clubs off signing them, when they know they'll miss six weeks of the season.

So that's why this news will be welcomed by the vast majority of the players. Particularly the big names. And of course Premier League managers will be delighted. 26 players from the English top flight went to the last Nations Cup.

The huge negative is the weather. It'll be almost impossible for some countries in Africa to host the tournament because extremely hot and wet conditions in June will not be suitable for football.

Some will also be angry with the sense that African football is being dictated to by European football.

Increasing the tournament to 24 teams is also controversial.

Yes it allows more teams to qualify and will increase income but will the quality be diluted? And how many nations will have the infrastructure to host eight more teams?
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Waffiman »

Well, in time we will see if these changes are for the good of African football.

One player has told me he welcomes the changes, also said more African players will get more opportunities at top clubs. Argued it will benefit African football.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Enugu II »

folem wrote:
Enugu II wrote:This story captures the issues. Staying on 2-year cycle is clearly a recognition of the revenue issue that I had mentioned.
E II.

Thinking that a 2 year cycle means double revenue is simplistic. A 4 year cycle means at last 1 year to sell/market match packages and paraphernalia, more publicity and fan attention. It will ultimately lead to tourist packages for the event. In the long term you will probably get 4 times the current revenue stream that is based mainly on TV revenue projections.
folem,

Haba, you are not thinking like a sponsor. So if you are the big boss of Total Oil you will agree for CAF to move to 4-year cycle and forgo an advertising cycle that would have brought you attention for more periods in millions of bedrooms? Instead, you will gladly take the 4-year cycle without requesting a renegotiation or some plow back of your money? Total is glad that you are not representing them for sure.

No CEO worth his salt will do that. I guarantee you. Everyone is focused on making AFCON the same as Euro and Copa but not thinking of the business side which brings you that football. Well, some people will and do think of the business side.

Moreover, CAF has possibly accounted for dollars of Total money and its use for its other competitions going forward. With a dramatic change to less competition and the likely shortfall, CAF can only meet those commitments by finding additional sources of revenue to support its current outlay or ditch a 4-cycle plan. It seems to me that CAF has planned to stay safe instead of take the risk. I am not stating that this choice is better, instead it shows that this CAF management is not betting on itself to do better in terms of revenue.

JUST A NOTE
Heavy rain today in Enugu forced postponement of Enugu Rangers v MFM in the NPFL.
Last edited by Enugu II on Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by camex »

Waffiman wrote:Well, in time we will see if these changes are for the good of African football.

One player has told me he welcomes the changes, also said more African players will get more opportunities at top clubs. Argued it will benefit African football.
Which changes specifically? The championship in August or the cup every 4 years?
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by ohenhen1 »

It is a bad idea to expand to 24 teams and have the games in June. The raining season is in June. Look at the floods in Lagos. Most countries can't even handle hosting 16 teams financially. The competition already watered down at 16. It would be worse at 24.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Enugu II »

camex wrote:
Waffiman wrote:Well, in time we will see if these changes are for the good of African football.

One player has told me he welcomes the changes, also said more African players will get more opportunities at top clubs. Argued it will benefit African football.
Which changes specifically? The championship in August or the cup every 4 years?
The only change is from January to the summer months. CAF appears to have agreed to continue the 2-year cycle for reasons already known.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Waffiman »

camex wrote:
Waffiman wrote:Well, in time we will see if these changes are for the good of African football.

One player has told me he welcomes the changes, also said more African players will get more opportunities at top clubs. Argued it will benefit African football.
Which changes specifically? The championship in August or the cup every 4 years?
All changes.

Also Ahmed has come in on a radical ticket of reform, I support him because I felt Hayatou was a dead horse killing our game. However, Ahmed is already making enemies of some that voted him in because they are beginning to see him as a stooge for Europe. He needs to be careful.

For the players, the end of the club versus country conflict is what they really welcome.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Bigpokey24 »

You waffi, you sat down with the FA chairmen and they told you above rubbish
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

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You waffi, you sat down with the FA chairmen and they told you above rubbish
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by ohenhen1 »

Waffiman wrote:
For the players, the end of the club versus country conflict is what they really welcome.

It won't end it. Managers will want the players to rest in the summer.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Waffiman »

ohenhen1 wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
For the players, the end of the club versus country conflict is what they really welcome.
It won't end it. Managers will want the players to rest in the summer.
A different sort of conflict, if any arises, to January tournament conflict.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Enugu II »

ohenhen1 wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
For the players, the end of the club versus country conflict is what they really welcome.

It won't end it. Managers will want the players to rest in the summer.

This is IMO an issue that is sure to come up. It comes up for the Olympics that takes place in the summer. However, the clubs would have to make the same argument against players who also play in the Euro.
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Waffiman »

Enugu II wrote:
ohenhen1 wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
For the players, the end of the club versus country conflict is what they really welcome.

It won't end it. Managers will want the players to rest in the summer.

This is IMO an issue that is sure to come up. It comes up for the Olympics that takes place in the summer. However, the clubs would have to make the same argument against players who also play in the Euro.
It comes up because Olympics is not a FIFA sanctioned tournament. Clubs can stop their players from playing in Olympics because they are not forced by FIFA to comply.

Some African players were already passing up on the ANC cos clubs were putting their livelihoods in danger. For me, the summer move it as much more to do with summer ANC, than a desire to unify the world football calendar.
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Enugu II
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Re: Ahmad's PayBack Time: Cameroon May be Stripped of 2019

Post by Enugu II »

Waffiman wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
ohenhen1 wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
For the players, the end of the club versus country conflict is what they really welcome.

It won't end it. Managers will want the players to rest in the summer.

This is IMO an issue that is sure to come up. It comes up for the Olympics that takes place in the summer. However, the clubs would have to make the same argument against players who also play in the Euro.
It comes up because Olympics is not a FIFA sanctioned tournament. Clubs can stop their players from playing in Olympics because they are not forced by FIFA to comply.

Some African players were already passing up on the ANC cos clubs were putting their livelihoods in danger. For me, the summer move it as much more to do with summer ANC, than a desire to unify the world football calendar.
Waffi,

But clubs complained about CAF which was FIFA-sanctioned and also held in an international window for tournaments. It did not stop the complaints.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics

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