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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Rashford gave the RM issues in the 2nd half even though he was wasteful as well, man united were giving a masterclass in football, it was good RM won or else it would have given us false hopes that we have arrived, we have a way to go to get to RM levels, it was so apparent

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:59 pm 
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oloye wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
oloye wrote:
ManU need to go get a proper right back. The two goals in this match was down to a winger pretending as a full back.


Give RM some credit. Notice the overload and how they worked the extra man into that space

RM just gave a tactical lesson on how to beat the defensive 3-4-3 of the EPL. But doing it without playing an attacking 3-4-3. Zidane played a Diamond 4-4-2 (some say narrow 4-3-3) cum 4-3-1-2 (which is effectively a reverse 3-4-2-1) hybrid. This offers inter changes leading to overloads in all the right places to take adv of the structural rigidity of Mourinho ultra defensive system.

Zidane's 4-4-2 diamond had Isco at the top or head of the diamond or the "false" winger. The wide striker is Benzema who alternates with Isco. This leaves two forwards to face 3 CBs instead of one. Ideally the wide forward has serious end product ala Cristiano Ronaldo. Arsenal have Sanchez.

The false winger (i.e. Isco/Asensio) can also tuck into CM and overload as a 4th Central Midfielder creating a 4v2 in Midfield. Mourinho was forced to beef up the CM position to counter this tactical ploy of RM.

Some say it is a "false" 10. Why? The movement is between the wing/wide positon and number 10 hole, with the freedom to drop deeper into midfield if needed. Arsenal do this with Ozil, but he can be lazy and is often exploited defensively. But I noted with keen interest, Wenger asked Iwobi to play this role in the Community Shield, he excelled in patches and had a good game. Hint for the future perhaps.

Basically, Neymar and Suarez used similar system in 14-15, with Messi tucking in as a 10 and they swept the Board. But Barca have a slight variation that makes them more fluid than most. They use Busquets as an auxiliary Centre Half to make a 3 at the back when needed.

Both ManU and RM's systems are highly structured and rigid, with the main difference being, Zidane has structure and rigidity as its foundation whilst Mourinho's is all structure and rigidity with hardly any freedom for the players to express themselves. The players are fitted in the straight jacket of the system's structure and rigidity which they must stick to at all times. The system relies heavily on the quality of the players when they get their chance, by mainly forcing mistakes from their opponent, and not on creative, open attacking play. Conte is similar to Mourinho in mindset.

But you must be fair to these guys. Their teams get the job done most of the time, they get the first goal, then you are in serious trouble. When you are forced to take risks looking for the equaliser, more often than not, they slaughter you, before you blink you are 4 goals down.

They are particularly effective against middle and lower ranked teams, who are dispatched with ruthless efficiency. More attacking systems and their teams are more prone to getting exposed against middle ranked teams than Conte and Mourinho like defensive systems.

For Mourinho, it is a military exercise with results being the end that justifies the means. But Zidane trust his players and allows them some freedom to play and express themselves within the system's rigid structure.

Unlike Arsenal players who get carried away in possession, then their structure/shape collapses, they lose the ball, they are picked off and they start blaming each other. RM under Zidane, with their so called superstars, who are mainly attacking players by instinct, maintain their structure/shape because they are disciplined with everyone including Ronaldo working very hard without the ball.

IMHO, football is all about the players, not Managers, systems, formations and tactics. It is one thing having all the systems, formations and tactics, but in the final analysis, you need the players with the ability, willingness, belief and character to implement on the pitch. Not trying to dismiss the importance of systems, formations and tactics, they are of course important but no systems, formations and tactic can win games and trophies without the right players.

True! It is fair to say Zidane would not have won if he had Lingard, Felaini etc etc. Also, easy to say Zidane is fortunate, he is at RM and has in each position, the best or top 5 players in each position in the game. Tony Adams made this point and to an extent, he is right, but we must forget you have to get these players to play, and many of the world's great Coaches often fail at RM because they were unable to convince the players into buying into their ideas. We must give credit where it is due. This is what Zidane, with his presence as an ex-player all time great, has instilled at RM. Who are those players compared to him? I bet he is still RM's best player in training.

RM are looking very good to dominate this season with Barca running out of time for players to replace Neymar.

I am not taking anything away from RM, take a look at the two goals conceded by ManU....such ball watching is not even condoned at kinders level,never mind at this level. It is one thing when a player does what they should do and if they get beaten fair enough. When basic things are left un attended to they should be called.

As for the overall performance of ManU against RM, when a coward of a coach sets up his team to be dominated by the opposition simply because he wants to steal the trophy on the podium, such should be called out.

Any coach that has Rashford, Mata and Martial on the bench but opts to go for Lingard , clueless player and carpenters like Fellaini, such a coach has set his team up to look way way inferior to the opposition. It is not about RM, ManU looked inferior to Ajax as well, so this is not about the quality of the opposition,more like lack of quality from a team being coached by a coward and a wasteful manager...who got all the resources in the world to develop a ferrari, but chose to develop a 1945 Lada!

I apologise to all those who have labelled these clown anti football over the years, this guy is not only anti football...he is anti football talent as well. Rubbish!

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

You have a very good point and I know many ManU supporters who are not impressed. But he got them in to CL via Europa Cup and if he win the title come next May, they will not care. Jose says, it is about winning and to him every trophy counts.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:06 pm 
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oloye wrote:

I apologise to all those who have labelled these clown anti football over the years, this guy is not only anti football...he is anti football talent as well. Rubbish!


:lol: :lol: :lol: Apology accepted.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:30 pm 
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metalalloy wrote:
oloye wrote:

I apologise to all those who have labelled these clown anti football over the years, this guy is not only anti football...he is anti football talent as well. Rubbish!


:lol: :lol: :lol: Apology accepted.



Translation: No EPL team will embarrass my team like that. We are all crappy in the EPL, but ManU is a little less crappy and will win the league come May.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:39 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:04 pm 
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benteke wrote:
This Madrid has won two Champions League finals in a row and also another two years earlier.

This is a very good team if not the current best in Europe, it has beaten strong teams in CL and made them look ordinary at times, so i wouldn't cry too much about how United performed against them, there is room for improvement if Mourinho works hard on it.
It's not the end of the world.


why bother?

We had a makeshift defence with only Valencia playing his natural position.
Would be interesting if Minister of Defence and Rojo were our CD's

Hoping someone can remind me how the Serie A and Bundesliga teams performed against this RM side

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:06 pm 
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Cito wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
oloye wrote:

I apologise to all those who have labelled these clown anti football over the years, this guy is not only anti football...he is anti football talent as well. Rubbish!


:lol: :lol: :lol: Apology accepted.



Translation: No EPL team will embarrass my team like that. We are all crappy in the EPL, but ManU is a little less crappy and will win the league come May.


yes o

RM (4-1) Serie A
but that story does not fit the (dumb) narrative on CE :taunt: :taunt:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:06 pm 
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tfco wrote:
benteke wrote:
This Madrid has won two Champions League finals in a row and also another two years earlier.

This is a very good team if not the current best in Europe, it has beaten strong teams in CL and made them look ordinary at times, so i wouldn't cry too much about how United performed against them, there is room for improvement if Mourinho works hard on it.
It's not the end of the world.


why bother?

We had a makeshift defence with only Valencia playing his natural position.
Would be interesting if Minister of Defence and Rojo were our CD's

Hoping someone can remind me how the Serie A and Bundesliga teams performed against this RM side

nah you get time, you should know txj is a troll

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:03 pm 
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United is one of the favorites to win the EPL and also last 4 in the champs league, Real will dismantle any team



solid points from a former Real player

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:05 pm 
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tfco wrote:
benteke wrote:
This Madrid has won two Champions League finals in a row and also another two years earlier.

This is a very good team if not the current best in Europe, it has beaten strong teams in CL and made them look ordinary at times, so i wouldn't cry too much about how United performed against them, there is room for improvement if Mourinho works hard on it.
It's not the end of the world.


why bother?

We had a makeshift defence with only Valencia playing his natural position.
Would be interesting if Minister of Defence and Rojo were our CD's

Hoping someone can remind me how the Serie A and Bundesliga teams performed against this RM side


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I'm glad you are finally on the same page as all those who have been telling you and your cronies that Real and Barcelona are on a different level from pretty much every other team on the planet. Hopefully we will stop reading your dumb "NDL" posts, but I wont hold my breath on that one. :D

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We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:37 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:39 pm 
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metalalloy wrote:
I'm glad you are finally on the same page as all those who have been telling you and your cronies that Real and Barcelona are on a different level from pretty much every other team on the planet. Hopefully we will stop reading your dumb "NDL" posts, but I wont hold my breath on that one. :D


when they have the best players on the planet, well duh

the NDL argument has been about the LEAGUE, not the 2 teams in the LEAGUE.
TV revenues anyone?

hopefully you can get on the_same_page and stop holding breath

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:12 pm 
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This is Mourinho defining season, no more work in progress, the players need to step up, all the players have to step up and be counted, anything like last season, sorry Mourinho, you will be gone

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:35 pm 
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Real Madrid has won the CL back to back and won the league (Spain)

United finished 6th!!

And people thought United can compete at that level after just 1 month of buying 2 players (+ buying matic last week)??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

As bad as United was, they will dismantle the likes of Arsenal and be up there challenging for the title. Not sure what that says of the EPL, frankly.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:48 am 
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Assnal should not be mentioned when top clubs are balling

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:40 am 
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Real Madrid has won major trophies and at no time not even when ManU was in it's glory days will one put them in the same bracket apart from maybe followership and financial muscle.

No one is saying that it is taken that ManU should win, as far as i am concerned when a team is assembled for the price of that over priced ManU team, the least one could expect from these over priced players is to at least show some ability whenever the ball comes to their feet.
The least one expects from a team assembled with such an amount of money is to at least play football and not just line up like a wall behind the ball and punt the ball far away into no man's land as soon as they gain posession of the ball.
All the players on the ManU team are internationals, yet they look like nationwide team players,no sense of anything called football. They line up like it is rugby and when they get the ball they try to force a scrum or push their way into Real's half.

Leicester would give a better performance, at least they would play football.

Every time i watch Jose team line up in their half like the Roman army formation the only missing part being the armor shield. I say to myself,that man is committing arm robbery in the name of coaching. He aint coaching nada, he is just interpreting football tactics to the letter.

There is a reason why he does not last nore than 3 seasons in clubs,it has just dawned on me.....it is only a matter of time before the board and the fans start asking ,hey Jose i paid for Versace why are you giving me Lee jeans, i paid for Ferrari why is my car running like one with a Lada engine.
As soon as the novelty of winning a trophy at all cost wears off..the reality of the dross and gross short cut to the success dawns and the repulsion takess over. All the fans giving him a pass..will soon turn on him as soon as they realise that they have paid more than they are getting back.

There are coaches who will do more with less than this anti football coach is getting. If i give you a fortune to raise a team,i deserve a team worthy to behold!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:24 am 
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oloye wrote:
Real Madrid has won major trophies and at no time not even when ManU was in it's glory days will one put them in the same bracket apart from maybe followership and financial muscle.

No one is saying that it is taken that ManU should win, as far as i am concerned when a team is assembled for the price of that over priced ManU team, the least one could expect from these over priced players is to at least show some ability whenever the ball comes to their feet.
The least one expects from a team assembled with such an amount of money is to at least play football and not just line up like a wall behind the ball and punt the ball far away into no man's land as soon as they gain posession of the ball.
All the players on the ManU team are internationals, yet they look like nationwide team players,no sense of anything called football. They line up like it is rugby and when they get the ball they try to force a scrum or push their way into Real's half.

Leicester would give a better performance, at least they would play football.

Every time i watch Jose team line up in their half like the Roman army formation the only missing part being the armor shield. I say to myself,that man is committing arm robbery in the name of coaching. He aint coaching nada, he is just interpreting football tactics to the letter.

There is a reason why he does not last nore than 3 seasons in clubs,it has just dawned on me.....it is only a matter of time before the board and the fans start asking ,hey Jose i paid for Versace why are you giving me Lee jeans, i paid for Ferrari why is my car running like one with a Lada engine.
As soon as the novelty of winning a trophy at all cost wears off..the reality of the dross and gross short cut to the success dawns and the repulsion takess over. All the fans giving him a pass..will soon turn on him as soon as they realise that they have paid more than they are getting back.

There are coaches who will do more with less than this anti football coach is getting. If i give you a fortune to raise a team,i deserve a team worthy to behold!


I remember when Jose won his last title with Chelsea, his team was playing the best football in the league up until December/January, then their form kind of went down. So definitely the man can coach some good football, you don't win titles playing ugly football.

About the Supercup game, over the course of 90mins, United did try to play some football and did fashion some chances, but the fact is Madrid was just much better, even a solid team like Juventus got punished in the Final.

United is a team that is still a work in progress under Mourinho, the cost of the squad is not what determines how well it must play as soon as possible, it will take a bit of time, a team like Madrid have been playing together for many seasons and it shows.

This season i think it's reasonable to expect United to finish in the top four and progress to CL knockout stages although I think Semis will be a big ask.

The cost of the squad is now irrelevant to me, most players are now overpriced, it doesn't equate to talent no more


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:32 am 
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Prince wrote:
Not many team will have Modric and Kroos, That Modric na one hell of a player........


Those should be talked about in the same breath as Xavi and Iniesta when it comes to great midfields.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Just decided to watch the recorded match. What is all the noise here all about? :lol: :lol: :lol:
This is classic Mourinho except that it didn't work out for him this time and against today's Real Madrid... surprise?? C'mon now.... No. Like some have said, much more settled and compact teams than Man United that lined up Lingard, Smalling and Damian were easily dismantled by Real Madrid.

After seeing the game, I now agree with those that have been telling me that Mourinho is assembling a ugly beast of a team. There is no hiding place for him this season, no excuse so we are likely going to see the worst of Mourinho in his quest to grab/steal/snatch the EPL trophy. It is going to be ugly and most of us won't like the displays one bit as we won't recognize the team we have always known for a long time but this team will surely give their opponents 90 minutes of hell all year round.

Keep in mind that the likes of brutal Bailly and Rojo were not available and will surely be part of the show for most of this season and Uncle Ibrahimovic will also likely join the savagery once in a while when he is back to fitness. Even guys like Luke Shaw and Ashley Young are not pleasant to face on their good days.

*I totally agree on Lingard. That boy will show flashes but he still won't make 3SC's first eleven any day.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:26 pm 
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Man United turned down the chance to sign Isco in 2013 because they thought his head was too big for his body: (link: http://es.pn/2uFZk6e) es.pn/2uFZk6e

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:39 pm 
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size of isco head kai :lol: :lol: who be that scout

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:43 pm 
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ojafranpa wrote:
Man United turned down the chance to sign Isco in 2013 because they thought his head was too big for his body: (link: http://es.pn/2uFZk6e) es.pn/2uFZk6e


this below is a paragraph from your ESPN link Oja.
This is also worth noting

Quote:
Against Madrid, United played against a team where the majority have played and won three of the last four Champions League finals. United are inexperienced as a team -- the top scorer in the current squad, Juan Mata has only 36 goals.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:01 pm 
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benteke wrote:
Prince wrote:
Not many team will have Modric and Kroos, That Modric na one hell of a player........


Those should be talked about in the same breath as Xavi and Iniesta when it comes to great midfields.

If Lingard had turned up for Madrid, you guys would be saying the same. Did Ajax not roll United around the pack much like Real did.

Guys enjoy the ugly football while it last....Chelsea fans lapped it up when they needed trophies badly until they got fed up with it :lol:
Some of us like me loved it until it became boring seeing expensive and good players either being reduced to tatters because they refuse to play 16th century football or were not as tall as Fellaini :lol:

Dont worry the cane they used to beat the former wife is still around the corner and can come handy!

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