Victor Osimhen...

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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by niyi »

nzeogwu wrote:Ayo:

Look at this names:

Taribo West
Nwankwo Kanu (Sent to the U17 team)
Austin Okocha
Tijani Babangida
Wilson Oruma

There was still some decency of values in Nigeria in the 90's. name five players since 2010 that can fit this bill? What happened to NUGA, YSFON, Greater Tomorrow. Our value system is gone.

For those who think we can build a team on NPFL players, or U-17 players, think gain. Lots of talent, no character, no values.

Moses, Mikel, Ighalo, Balogun, Ekong, Aina, Iwobi, Ebuehi, Bazo Nigeria. Professionalism and hard work. They may not be the best but they'll give a lot more consistently than their more talented colleagues like Nacho and Success. You never know what you'll get for club or country with our so called u-17 stars.

Yes, we blame injury and age and will keep ding so when they are 30. Eto'o, Okocha, Finidi, Babangida, Kanu, Cele did not have that problem. It is a microcosm of our society.
None of the players in your list were regulars for top clubs at 18. Eto'o is probably the greatest African player ever. He had 3 games for Real madrid in 3-4 years and was loaned around before he was finally sold to Mallorca at 20. A player playing for a bundesliga team at 18 is exceptional by all metrics.

Some of you are out of touch with reality and looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses. This is what we get every time Nigeria wins a major competition... all the people who stopped following football after the last competition come out of nowhere with ignorant questions. No offence... The world of football is bugger than Arsenal and Real Madrid. Look at the guy who started this thread saying Wolfsburg is a small team. In what world is a German team that appeared in the champions league 2 years ago a small team? They currently have Mario Gomez and Origi playing for them in attack and that's what Osimhen (18 years old, first full season in organized football) is up against!
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

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nzeogwu wrote:Ok, I agree with Yemster. MAJORITY Nigerian (African) players lack ambition. Leaving Ajegunle for a sub position in the Championship is an achievement and measure of success. Many can play better but do as little as possible. It's a complete lack of ambition. That's the Gods honest truth.
Many graduates left Nigeria to be taxi drivers in Europe etc. Guess it is due to lack of ambition.
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

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theYemster wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:Pick any country (or even club) of your choice, list their youth players from the U17 etc and count how many ended up playing top flight football for considerable period.

Age was the excuse before but seems you've added laziness, love of money etc to it. Haba!!!!!
I don't necessarily agree with his position but I do agree with the lazy part. Maybe I shouldn't call it lazy. The way I see it, the average Nigerian footballer (or any athlete for that matter) settles easily. Their ambition is to go abroad not because it presents the best opportunity for them to attain their full potential but because it means more money and better lifestyle (fair enough). They don't aspire to be the best in their craft they just aspire to go play professionally abroad (ideally Europe but anywhere abroad will usually do). Their motivation is purely financial not self improvement. That's why you see most of them content with riding the pine sitting on the bench while in the prime of their career. I'm not sure why Nacho left City to come sit on Leicester's bench. He should've demanded guaranteed playing time from any team wanting to sign him. I hope its just a temporary thing.

I guess that's the reality of living in Nigeria.
What a shait theory based on nothing...
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by Synopsis »

nzeogwu wrote:The average Nigerian youth wonder is nothing to write home about. They may excel at U-17 and U-20 but let's be honest, skill wont get you very far. Most are lazy, and the joy of money, fame and fortune make them semi motivated. Being an athlete is not abut your ability but about skill, knowledge and experience. Two of three are usually missing.

If Osimhen was so promising, Wolfsburg would not have signed Origi. As usually, I am positive that someone will dissect this and say I have a colo mentality.

Examples:

Musa
Iheanacho
Success
Musa Muhammed
Omeruo
Onazi
Nwakili

These players CANNOT play at the highest level for a protracted period. They just do not have what it takes.


These ones do:

Ighalo
Mikel
Moses
Ekong
Balogun
Ndidi


They work hard at their game. They show up fit!! Even Mikel at his age.
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by heavyd »

niyi wrote:
nzeogwu wrote:Ayo:

Look at this names:

Taribo West
Nwankwo Kanu (Sent to the U17 team)
Austin Okocha
Tijani Babangida
Wilson Oruma

There was still some decency of values in Nigeria in the 90's. name five players since 2010 that can fit this bill? What happened to NUGA, YSFON, Greater Tomorrow. Our value system is gone.

For those who think we can build a team on NPFL players, or U-17 players, think gain. Lots of talent, no character, no values.

Moses, Mikel, Ighalo, Balogun, Ekong, Aina, Iwobi, Ebuehi, Bazo Nigeria. Professionalism and hard work. They may not be the best but they'll give a lot more consistently than their more talented colleagues like Nacho and Success. You never know what you'll get for club or country with our so called u-17 stars.

Yes, we blame injury and age and will keep ding so when they are 30. Eto'o, Okocha, Finidi, Babangida, Kanu, Cele did not have that problem. It is a microcosm of our society.
None of the players in your list were regulars for top clubs at 18. Eto'o is probably the greatest African player ever. He had 3 games for Real madrid in 3-4 years and was loaned around before he was finally sold to Mallorca at 20. A player playing for a bundesliga team at 18 is exceptional by all metrics.

Some of you are out of touch with reality and looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses. This is what we get every time Nigeria wins a major competition... all the people who stopped following football after the last competition come out of nowhere with ignorant questions. No offence... The world of football is bugger than Arsenal and Real Madrid. Look at the guy who started this thread saying Wolfsburg is a small team. In what world is a German team that appeared in the champions league 2 years ago a small team? They currently have Mario Gomez and Origi playing for them in attack and that's what Osimhen (18 years old, first full season in organized football) is up against!
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by Yiba »

Anybody who thinks that Wolfsburg is a small club in the Bundesliga, does not know the reach and impact of the club in Germany.

Osimhen is gradually developing and he will see action soon.

The great news(depends on how you look at it) is that Mario Gomez is out for at least 4 weeks. These are the following players fighting for a chance to play for Wolfsburg, they are Landry Dimata, Paul-Geroges Ntep, Kaylen Hinds, and Victor Osimhen.

The only problem i notice about Wolfsburg is that money is not an object in their dealings. They sign players erratically before they think of integration. Not so long ago, it was the favorite destination for agents who wanted to make a quick buck during Felix Magath era.
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by Prince »

Yiba wrote:Anybody who thinks that Wolfsburg is a small club in the Bundesliga, does not know the reach and impact of the club in Germany.

Osimhen is gradually developing and he will see action soon.

The great news(depends on how you look at it) is that Mario Gomez is out for at least 4 weeks. These are the following players fighting for a chance to play for Wolfsburg, they are Landry Dimata, Paul-Geroges Ntep, Kaylen Hinds, and Victor Osimhen.

The only problem i notice about Wolfsburg is that money is not an object in their dealings. They sign players erratically before they think of integration. Not so long ago, it was the favorite destination for agents who wanted to make a quick buck during Felix Magath era.
I think they buy players with good sell on value, I think that is where Kevin De Bruyne was till Man City bought him
Oya back to the matter
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by Yiba »

Prince wrote:
I think they buy players with good sell on value, I think that is where Kevin De Bruyne was till Man City bought him
Kevin De Bruyne's deal was one-off. Interestingly, it was the only sale that i can remember that made some money for Wolfsburg under the leadership of Klaus Allofs as sports director.
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by Polly »

I like the Internet. It provides equal opportunity for those who have never done any heavy intellectual lifting to open their mouths to pretend to be wise and knowledgeable. And then, suddenly, they find they are being treated for severe halitosis.
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by Yiba »

Oya guys, make una pray make Victor make his debut from the start in this season's fixture during the weekend.
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by paj »

it's rather amazing how people just use keyboard end players' careers on this site...luckily for the players it's not up to the typists...
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by paj »

TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:
niyi wrote:He's 18 and around the first team of a top flight German club. It'll be an anomaly for him to be playing every week.
Wasn't Nacho scoring goals in the premier league when he was 18? Look, I'm not questioning his talent. We all know he has that. I, however, question the logic of he and his advisers in picking Wolfsburg over the bigger clubs that were after him. To be honest, that decision suggests a certain lack of self confidence. The world is full of talented football players with very little to pick and choose between them. The one factor that makes all the difference in the world is self confidence. If you don't think you can succeed in a big club then you probably won't. The fact that Osimhen isn't getting playing time at a club which battled relegation all season is not helping his confidence. That's bad news in the long run.

Onyekuru made a similar decision. I am watching to see how he makes out :!:


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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by Eaglezbeak »

paj wrote:it's rather amazing how people just use keyboard end players' careers on this site...luckily for the players it's not up to the typists...
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by kali »

He is only 19. Still has time. But agree with Yemsters assessment of Nigerian players. They are lazy. Not financially driven. LAZY BUMS. Look at the Nigeria 2005 World Youth Finalist top players. Where are they today?

Argentina
- Messi (4 time World Player of the Year)
- Sergio Aguero (Lead Striker Manchester City)
- Paulo Zabaleta (Man City, West Ham)

Nigeria
- John Mikel Obi (China)
- Chinedu Ogbuke (Sweden Div I)
- Taye Taiwo (Switzerland Div I)
- Dele Adeleye (Clubless)
- Sani Kaita (Second Division Finland)
- Isaac Promise (Second Division Turkey)
- Solomon Okoronkwo (2nd Division Germany)
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by Ayo Akinfe »

nzeogwu wrote:Ayo:

Look at this names:

Taribo West
Nwankwo Kanu (Sent to the U17 team)
Austin Okocha
Tijani Babangida
Wilson Oruma

There was still some decency of values in Nigeria in the 90's. name five players since 2010 that can fit this bill? What happened to NUGA, YSFON, Greater Tomorrow. Our value system is gone.

For those who think we can build a team on NPFL players, or U-17 players, think gain. Lots of talent, no character, no values.

Moses, Mikel, Ighalo, Balogun, Ekong, Aina, Iwobi, Ebuehi, Bazo Nigeria. Professionalism and hard work. They may not be the best but they'll give a lot more consistently than their more talented colleagues like Nacho and Success. You never know what you'll get for club or country with our so called u-17 stars.

Yes, we blame injury and age and will keep ding so when they are 30. Eto'o, Okocha, Finidi, Babangida, Kanu, Cele did not have that problem. It is a microcosm of our society.
If you look at the current team, the following were all playing for major European teams as teenagers:

Kelechi Iheanacho
Alex Iwobi
William Ekong
Ogenyi Onazi
Mikel Obi
Wilfred Ndidi
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by nzeogwu »

No one is trying to end anyone's career. The truth is we are a nation of cheats, corrupt and unambitious people. We cheat at age grade to make it to Europe. We outshine our completion who are really not our competition. Once we get to a club, we outshine everyone for a season and are dubbed the next best thing. Then we collect About 50,000 pounds a week to sit on the bench.

Those who think Nacho, Osimhen and co have what it takes to succeed at the international adult level, keep deceiving yourselves.

The truth is that we are not better than any other mediocre African country at anything. All we have going for us is share numbers.

Our current crop of Eagles is simply a success due to the influx of domestic and foreign born athletes. In reality, if Nigeria ever fielded an adult team based solely on players born and playing in Nigeria, it would be an embarrassment.

Let's not kid ourselves.
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by marutimon »

Nigeria's current success is partially based on Victor Moses, who is Nigerian born and to some extent thanks to the oyibo wall (albeit Omeruo started vs Zambia and did just fine), but even here it looks like Awaziem may be an upgrade on Troost-Ekong before long.

The key opponent to the success however is Nigerian born and raised. This isn't Algeria.
Ikeme as good as he was - is a downgrade from Enyeama. And honestly Ezenwa did more than a great job in his stead.
Iwobi isn't key to the Super Eagles (not to mention also born in Nigeria and Nigeria is first choice for him). Key players have been Mikel (still no 1), Ndidi, Onazi, Iheanacho, even Ighalo and the Oyibo wall.
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by marutimon »

As for Nacho not being of international quality... 8 goals in 13 games for the Super Eagles (not to mention several assists) paint a different picture.
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

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nzeogwu wrote:No one is trying to end anyone's career. The truth is we are a nation of cheats, corrupt and unambitious people. We cheat at age grade to make it to Europe. We outshine our completion who are really not our competition. Once we get to a club, we outshine everyone for a season and are dubbed the next best thing. Then we collect About 50,000 pounds a week to sit on the bench.

Those who think Nacho, Osimhen and co have what it takes to succeed at the international adult level, keep deceiving yourselves.

The truth is that we are not better than any other mediocre African country at anything. All we have going for us is share numbers.

Our current crop of Eagles is simply a success due to the influx of domestic and foreign born athletes. In reality, if Nigeria ever fielded an adult team based solely on players born and playing in Nigeria, it would be an embarrassment.

Let's not kid ourselves.
Wrist scans have helped reduce this cheating. I'd say this is why we can't judge our current 19 y.o. against the success of our prior "19" y.o. Give Victor time, he might pan out eventually.
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

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nzeogwu wrote:No one is trying to end anyone's career. The truth is we are a nation of cheats, corrupt and unambitious people. We cheat at age grade to make it to Europe. We outshine our completion who are really not our competition. Once we get to a club, we outshine everyone for a season and are dubbed the next best thing. Then we collect About 50,000 pounds a week to sit on the bench.

Those who think Nacho, Osimhen and co have what it takes to succeed at the international adult level, keep deceiving yourselves.

The truth is that we are not better than any other mediocre African country at anything. All we have going for us is share numbers.

Our current crop of Eagles is simply a success due to the influx of domestic and foreign born athletes. In reality, if Nigeria ever fielded an adult team based solely on players born and playing in Nigeria, it would be an embarrassment.

Let's not kid ourselves.
Dude, you can say that about Brazil, Argentina, Belgium and many other countries...
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by theYemster »

wanaj0 wrote:
theYemster wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:Pick any country (or even club) of your choice, list their youth players from the U17 etc and count how many ended up playing top flight football for considerable period.

Age was the excuse before but seems you've added laziness, love of money etc to it. Haba!!!!!
I don't necessarily agree with his position but I do agree with the lazy part. Maybe I shouldn't call it lazy. The way I see it, the average Nigerian footballer (or any athlete for that matter) settles easily. Their ambition is to go abroad not because it presents the best opportunity for them to attain their full potential but because it means more money and better lifestyle (fair enough). They don't aspire to be the best in their craft they just aspire to go play professionally abroad (ideally Europe but anywhere abroad will usually do). Their motivation is purely financial not self improvement. That's why you see most of them content with riding the pine sitting on the bench while in the prime of their career. I'm not sure why Nacho left City to come sit on Leicester's bench. He should've demanded guaranteed playing time from any team wanting to sign him. I hope its just a temporary thing.

I guess that's the reality of living in Nigeria.
Firstly, they are kids moving to a new country, new weather, new culture etc. Don't underestimate the challenges with settling down.

Secondly you ask them to demand for playing time? How???? What leverage do they have?

The motivation for most people is financial and nothing wrong with that. We all move to greener pastures basically for better life.
My post isn't necessarily about this particular case but a general observation about Nigerian players.
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by theYemster »

niyi wrote:
theYemster wrote:
wanaj0 wrote:Pick any country (or even club) of your choice, list their youth players from the U17 etc and count how many ended up playing top flight football for considerable period.

Age was the excuse before but seems you've added laziness, love of money etc to it. Haba!!!!!
I don't necessarily agree with his position but I do agree with the lazy part. Maybe I shouldn't call it lazy. The way I see it, the average Nigerian footballer (or any athlete for that matter) settles easily. Their ambition is to go abroad not because it presents the best opportunity for them to attain their full potential but because it means more money and better lifestyle (fair enough). They don't aspire to be the best in their craft they just aspire to go play professionally abroad (ideally Europe but anywhere abroad will usually do). Their motivation is purely financial not self improvement. That's why you see most of them content with riding the pine sitting on the bench while in the prime of their career. I'm not sure why Nacho left City to come sit on Leicester's bench. He should've demanded guaranteed playing time from any team wanting to sign him. I hope its just a temporary thing.

I guess that's the reality of living in Nigeria.
What a shait theory based on nothing...
I agree it's a disputable theory which you're free to disagree with. However to claim it's based on nothing isn't exactly true.

How many times have we heard of Nigerian players rush off to one backwater league after another for pennies on the dollar?

Even many of our most famous stars have at various times rode the pine at their clubs during the prime of their careers until their contracts ran out. Kanu at Arsenal, Amokachi at Everton, Amuneke at Barcelona, Mikel at Chelsea, I suspect Nacho would've remained at City's bench if Pep had allowed. You never hear of a Nigerian player in a club like Arsenal, Chelsea etc still striving to make it to a Real Madrid or Barcelona. Look at Alexis or Coutinho or even ordinary Oxlade-Chamberlain (for better or worse) striving to move to an even bigger club to win, despite being in a good situation. A Nigerian would be content.
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Re: Victor Osimhen...

Post by Gotti »

theYemster wrote:I agree it's a disputable theory which you're free to disagree with. However to claim it's based on nothing isn't exactly true.

How many times have we heard of Nigerian players rush off to one backwater league after another for pennies on the dollar?

Even many of our most famous stars have at various times rode the pine at their clubs during the prime of their careers until their contracts ran out. Kanu at Arsenal, Amokachi at Everton, Amuneke at Barcelona, Mikel at Chelsea, I suspect Nacho would've remained at City's bench if Pep had allowed. You never hear of a Nigerian player in a club like Arsenal, Chelsea etc still striving to make it to a Real Madrid or Barcelona. Look at Alexis or Coutinho or even ordinary Oxlade-Chamberlain (for better or worse) striving to move to an even bigger club to win, despite being in a good situation. A Nigerian would be content.
Amuneke was a regular starter at Barca, until his career was blighted a degenerative knee problem...

And of course Amuneke strove to make it from Sporting Lisbon to Barca, while Kanu strove to make it from Ajax (shortly after winning the UEFA Champions League) to Inter Milan, which was at the time one of the biggest clubs in the world (in what was then the pre-eminent league, the Serie A), Taribo West similarly strove to make it from Auxerre to Inter Milan (and later AC Milan), Taye Taiwo strove to make it from Marseille (shortly after winning the French league) to AC Milan, Sunday Oliseh strove to move from Lierse to Reggiana to Ajax to Juventus and to Dortmund, Victor Moses (born in Nigeria and started his football career in Benin) made it all the way from the English lower leagues and lesser clubs to a regular starting position at Chelsea (when in fact it was arguably "easier" to have settled), and how many times have we castigated Nigerian players here on CE as "unprofessional" when they express a desire to move on and play for a bigger club? Meanwhile, players like Winston Borgade (Dutch) and Flourent Malouda (French) stuck around Stamford Bridge for a couple of seasons collecting paychecks and contributing much of nothing else at Chelsea.

Bros, one can always point to individual situations on both sides (and involving many different nationalities), but frankly only on CE that I have ever heard that Nigerians as a class are generally unambitious people (or are not sufficiently hard-working). That's just a broad over-generalization that inconsistent with reality.
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