EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by oloye »

Gosh watching Mendy and Walker rampage down the flanks no suprise the result.
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by oloye »

Mendy must be on steroids..damn!
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by platinum »

City look really good.

Liverpool show they have a little to go to be at the level of City.

I'd put City, Chelsea and United at top tier then Liverpool and Spurs, then Arsenal behind those five.
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by marutimon »

platinum wrote:City look really good.

Liverpool show they have a little to go to be at the level of City.

I'd put City, Chelsea and United at top tier then Liverpool and Spurs, then Arsenal behind those five.
City looked just as good at the beginning of last season, Liverpool (might I add playing without Sadio Mane today) looked just as mediocre. Which team finished 3rd and which 4th last season?
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by platinum »

marutimon wrote:
platinum wrote:City look really good.

Liverpool show they have a little to go to be at the level of City.

I'd put City, Chelsea and United at top tier then Liverpool and Spurs, then Arsenal behind those five.
City looked just as good at the beginning of last season, Liverpool (might I add playing without Sadio Mane today) looked just as mediocre. Which team finished 3rd and which 4th last season?
True, we will see what gives in January. That's when the chaff will split from the wheat
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by Bigpokey24 »

oloye wrote:Gosh watching Mendy and Walker rampage down the flanks no suprise the result.
Both players looked very good..Watford were useless
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by marutimon »

Bigpokey24 wrote:
oloye wrote:Gosh watching Mendy and Walker rampage down the flanks no suprise the result.
Both players looked very good..Watford were useless
I'm surprised Trippier started today for Tottenham given how well Aurier played during the week. This is likely Trippier's last start for as long as Aurier is healthy and ready to go.
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by bushboy »

I notice Kelechi was the lowest rated Leicester player according to daily mail. Subbed off after 68 mins. Safe to say it was not the best use of his first starting shot.
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by Tbite »

bushboy wrote:I notice Kelechi was the lowest rated Leicester player according to daily mail. Subbed off after 68 mins. Safe to say it was not the best use of his first starting shot.
There were some issues. Firstly Nacho is not an integral part of the play (This might be fine, many strikers are like that if not most), even Aguero is like that for most of the game, but the thing is when Aguero receives the ball then he becomes an engine.

Iheanacho is not great at CREATING opportunities, he is great at UTILIZING opportunities. In the whole world, there must be very few strikers that can utilize opportunities as well as Iheanacho, that is a department where he is WORLD CLASS. Iheanacho thrives in a team that creates Big Chances (As Sqawka rightly noted), the thing is last season Leicester created few Big Chances!

Iheanacho wasn't actually out of place in City, Man City suited him...the issue simply was Pep wanted a different philosophy, but in reality if Pep wasn't tweaking the team and bringing in the likes of Jesus, Manchester City is actually a better fit for Iheanacho than Leicester!

BUT the saving grace of Iheanacho is that we haven't seen his full array of potential. Nacho at City was but a fragment of what he can do, I believe he can create chances, we saw him do it against Zambia, we saw it in the EDS, we saw it in a few other places. But for that to happen, he needs to be more mobile (and not just in a positional sense). Against Huddersfield, he wasn't integral, he lacks a bit of fitness IMO, although he did close down spaces.

Furthermore two skillsets that he needs or is prone to employing, he actually hasn't perfected! One of those is the layoff, the one touch lay-off to another forward player. 50% of the time he gets it right, 50% of the time it is over hit or under hit, or not the best decision. Also his first touch remains a problem, I saw a very heavy touch from him that lost possession.

Overall awareness is also an issue
, Leicester nearly conceded due to him losing possession in a very dangerous area, Schmeichel had to make a finger tip save. The pressing from the Huddersfield player was intense, it wasn't a simple lapse in concentration, and Nacho didn't dwell on the ball for a great amount of time, but he simply wasn't aware. Furthermore, even when he showed great awareness of his defender, he wasn't aware of where a man in blue was.

I think he has developed himself into one of the world's best 'Big Chance' players, so much so that it may actually be detrimental, it is almost as if he has forgotten about the other responsibilities. I've been watching his progress for some time now, I think it is still very early days (in his career), like coach said, he didn't get enough of a preseason among other issues, it was his first start etc. However, he is not on course to becoming World Class. He is not necessarily off course, but he is not on course.
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by maceo4 »

Tbite wrote:
bushboy wrote:I notice Kelechi was the lowest rated Leicester player according to daily mail. Subbed off after 68 mins. Safe to say it was not the best use of his first starting shot.
There were some issues. Firstly Nacho is not an integral part of the play (This might be fine, many strikers are like that if not most), even Aguero is like that for most of the game, but the thing is when Aguero receives the ball then he becomes an engine.

Iheanacho is not great at CREATING opportunities, he is great at UTILIZING opportunities. In the whole world, there must be very few strikers that can utilize opportunities as well as Iheanacho, that is a department where he is WORLD CLASS. Iheanacho thrives in a team that creates Big Chances (As Sqawka rightly noted), the thing is last season Leicester created few Big Chances!

Iheanacho wasn't actually out of place in City, Man City suited him...the issue simply was Pep wanted a different philosophy, but in reality if Pep wasn't tweaking the team and bringing in the likes of Jesus, Manchester City is actually a better fit for Iheanacho than Leicester!

BUT the saving grace of Iheanacho is that we haven't seen his full array of potential. Nacho at City was but a fragment of what he can do, I believe he can create chances, we saw him do it against Zambia, we saw it in the EDS, we saw it in a few other places. But for that to happen, he needs to be more mobile (and not just in a positional sense). Against Huddersfield, he wasn't integral, he lacks a bit of fitness IMO, although he did close down spaces.

Furthermore two skillsets that he needs or is prone to employing, he actually hasn't perfected! One of those is the layoff, the one touch lay-off to another forward player. 50% of the time he gets it right, 50% of the time it is over hit or under hit, or not the best decision. Also his first touch remains a problem, I saw a very heavy touch from him that lost possession.

Overall awareness is also an issue
, Leicester nearly conceded due to him losing possession in a very dangerous area, Schmeichel had to make a finger tip save. The pressing from the Huddersfield player was intense, it wasn't a simple lapse in concentration, and Nacho didn't dwell on the ball for a great amount of time, but he simply wasn't aware. Furthermore, even when he showed great awareness of his defender, he wasn't aware of where a man in blue was.

I think he has developed himself into one of the world's best 'Big Chance' players, so much so that it may actually be detrimental, it is almost as if he has forgotten about the other responsibilities. I've been watching his progress for some time now, I think it is still very early days (in his career), like coach said, he didn't get enough of a preseason among other issues, it was his first start etc. However, he is not on course to becoming World Class. He is not necessarily off course, but he is not on course.
All your long talk can be summed up as he's an in the box finisher , that's where he shines outside of that he's not really exceptional, and as a recent article mentioned, are the likes of him and Chicharito becoming extinct or unneeded. As long as his first touch and ball retention are a problem, there is only so far he can progress. A lot of us did say a team like Leicester will badly expose his weaknesses. But it's still early days, hopefully he improves as he gets more fitness.
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA »

maceo4 wrote:
Tbite wrote:
bushboy wrote:I notice Kelechi was the lowest rated Leicester player according to daily mail. Subbed off after 68 mins. Safe to say it was not the best use of his first starting shot.
There were some issues. Firstly Nacho is not an integral part of the play (This might be fine, many strikers are like that if not most), even Aguero is like that for most of the game, but the thing is when Aguero receives the ball then he becomes an engine.

Iheanacho is not great at CREATING opportunities, he is great at UTILIZING opportunities. In the whole world, there must be very few strikers that can utilize opportunities as well as Iheanacho, that is a department where he is WORLD CLASS. Iheanacho thrives in a team that creates Big Chances (As Sqawka rightly noted), the thing is last season Leicester created few Big Chances!

Iheanacho wasn't actually out of place in City, Man City suited him...the issue simply was Pep wanted a different philosophy, but in reality if Pep wasn't tweaking the team and bringing in the likes of Jesus, Manchester City is actually a better fit for Iheanacho than Leicester!

BUT the saving grace of Iheanacho is that we haven't seen his full array of potential. Nacho at City was but a fragment of what he can do, I believe he can create chances, we saw him do it against Zambia, we saw it in the EDS, we saw it in a few other places. But for that to happen, he needs to be more mobile (and not just in a positional sense). Against Huddersfield, he wasn't integral, he lacks a bit of fitness IMO, although he did close down spaces.

Furthermore two skillsets that he needs or is prone to employing, he actually hasn't perfected! One of those is the layoff, the one touch lay-off to another forward player. 50% of the time he gets it right, 50% of the time it is over hit or under hit, or not the best decision. Also his first touch remains a problem, I saw a very heavy touch from him that lost possession.

Overall awareness is also an issue
, Leicester nearly conceded due to him losing possession in a very dangerous area, Schmeichel had to make a finger tip save. The pressing from the Huddersfield player was intense, it wasn't a simple lapse in concentration, and Nacho didn't dwell on the ball for a great amount of time, but he simply wasn't aware. Furthermore, even when he showed great awareness of his defender, he wasn't aware of where a man in blue was.

I think he has developed himself into one of the world's best 'Big Chance' players, so much so that it may actually be detrimental, it is almost as if he has forgotten about the other responsibilities. I've been watching his progress for some time now, I think it is still very early days (in his career), like coach said, he didn't get enough of a preseason among other issues, it was his first start etc. However, he is not on course to becoming World Class. He is not necessarily off course, but he is not on course.
All your long talk can be summed up as he's an in the box finisher , that's where he shines outside of that he's not really exceptional, and as a recent article mentioned, are the likes of him and Chicharito becoming extinct or unneeded. As long as his first touch and ball retention are a problem, there is only so far he can progress. A lot of us did say a team like Leicester will badly expose his weaknesses. But it's still early days, hopefully he improves as he gets more fitness.
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by TheHitman47 »

Tbite wrote:
bushboy wrote:I notice Kelechi was the lowest rated Leicester player according to daily mail. Subbed off after 68 mins. Safe to say it was not the best use of his first starting shot.
There were some issues. Firstly Nacho is not an integral part of the play (This might be fine, many strikers are like that if not most), even Aguero is like that for most of the game, but the thing is when Aguero receives the ball then he becomes an engine.

Iheanacho is not great at CREATING opportunities, he is great at UTILIZING opportunities. In the whole world, there must be very few strikers that can utilize opportunities as well as Iheanacho, that is a department where he is WORLD CLASS. Iheanacho thrives in a team that creates Big Chances (As Sqawka rightly noted), the thing is last season Leicester created few Big Chances!

Iheanacho wasn't actually out of place in City, Man City suited him...the issue simply was Pep wanted a different philosophy, but in reality if Pep wasn't tweaking the team and bringing in the likes of Jesus, Manchester City is actually a better fit for Iheanacho than Leicester!

BUT the saving grace of Iheanacho is that we haven't seen his full array of potential. Nacho at City was but a fragment of what he can do, I believe he can create chances, we saw him do it against Zambia, we saw it in the EDS, we saw it in a few other places. But for that to happen, he needs to be more mobile (and not just in a positional sense). Against Huddersfield, he wasn't integral, he lacks a bit of fitness IMO, although he did close down spaces.

Furthermore two skillsets that he needs or is prone to employing, he actually hasn't perfected! One of those is the layoff, the one touch lay-off to another forward player. 50% of the time he gets it right, 50% of the time it is over hit or under hit, or not the best decision. Also his first touch remains a problem, I saw a very heavy touch from him that lost possession.

Overall awareness is also an issue
, Leicester nearly conceded due to him losing possession in a very dangerous area, Schmeichel had to make a finger tip save. The pressing from the Huddersfield player was intense, it wasn't a simple lapse in concentration, and Nacho didn't dwell on the ball for a great amount of time, but he simply wasn't aware. Furthermore, even when he showed great awareness of his defender, he wasn't aware of where a man in blue was.

I think he has developed himself into one of the world's best 'Big Chance' players, so much so that it may actually be detrimental, it is almost as if he has forgotten about the other responsibilities. I've been watching his progress for some time now, I think it is still very early days (in his career), like coach said, he didn't get enough of a preseason among other issues, it was his first start etc. However, he is not on course to becoming World Class. He is not necessarily off course, but he is not on course.

I agree with a few of these points except for him fitting in Man City's system. The way they play it fits a player who is more involved in play than Iheanacho. Iheanacho is good for a possession based team that just needs a guy to finish off chances. I think a team like Bournemouth or Huddersfield fits him. He is not a mobile or even a pacey player.

Gabriel Jesus was preferred to him and you can see why he is at Man City. His ball retention, involvement in build up and work rate trump all of those for Iheanacho even when he is at his best. It's also another reason why many would prefer a player like Rashford compared to him.

The thing I worry aobut is that if he doesn't improve those aspects of his game I can see him in the championship or an obscure league which would be very sad. On the other hand if he improves these he should have a very good career.


I still think he is one of those players that will do it for country better than club like Eduardo Vargas or Miroslav Klose.
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by marutimon »

Actually he is very good at creating chances, else he wouldn't have had 9 assists in some 2200 minutes of game time.

He has vision, but he seems to be lacking confidence and something was off with his passing game. He needs playing time first and foremost, while Guardiola entirely messed that up last season.

For case in point look at his passing, ball retention and so forth during the Pellegini era. Guardiola seems to have wanted to change the way Iheanacho uses the ball and this has reduced his effectiveness. Whatever Guardiola did it hampered the effectiveness of how he played.

People honestly seem to have forgotten how Iheanacho used to play.
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by marutimon »

Look at Leicester's forum - people think he did OK or at least better than most.

I think this is the same issue as Nigeria had in the Brasil - Nigeria game in the U20 World Cup. 4-4-2 / 4-4-1-1 with Iheanacho doesn't work, because he doesn't help out the midfield as much as for example Okazaki. That left the midfield exposed. Plus Ndidi is great at breaking up play or making forward runs, but Shakespeare played him as a ball distributor, which he isn't. Neither King or Ndidi are creative from midfield, so that needs to be dealt with.
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Re: EPL 09/16/17: (NACHO Starts)

Post by Tbite »

I didn't say he fits Pep's philosophy, I said City as a club is a better for him than Leicester which is true.

I am not talking about the manager or the minutes or the specifics of the philosophy or even comparing him to Jesus. But the way that Nacho is playing RIGHT NOW, is best suited for a team that creates big chances, which Leicester City are very bad at doing.

The guy has a lot to do, a lot of work to do, a lot of progress to be made. It will determine the rest of his career. Leicester is a challenge, hopefully he can rise to it. But the Iheanacho that we have all been hoping for, isn't there yet, far from it.

Leicester is a team that relies on catching the opposition offguard. Whether that be a counter attack or simply driven passes between 2-4 forward players. This is not a team of KDBs or David Silvas.

Iheanacho needs to be able to play at a higher tempo. We saw what Okazaki brought to the table when he came on, he was able to read Mahrez and also anticipate Vardy's movement. Leicester play with intensity and pace.
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