Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

Post by Eaglezbeak »

Dammy wrote:
Eaglezbeak wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
Tbite wrote:
marutimon wrote:I don't like the extent of poaching for foreign born players. We have a 19 year old defender starting in France, but instead we want to search Germna-born players, because we trust them more than our own. And we end up not giving the chance or home-born players deserve.
We are overdoing it. There is an acceptable limit, but we are crossing that limit.

We crossed that limit 10 fold in the Basketball team, but I thought...perhaps that could rekindle some interest in Basketball. But in football, our national sport? haba!

No more players who weren't nurtured in Naija abeg, at least for the next 2 years or so. E don do.
Very short-sighted and disadvantageous. So if a player like David Alaba was uncovered in the next two years you think Nigeria should make no attempt to call him up and risk the possibility of him playing for another country simply because he wasn't "nurtured" in Nigeria?

When it come to talent and having a deep squad it's never a case of "e don do".
But Nigeria are not doing it based on quality,they just want British born players even non starters at their clubs have a better chance than a talented Nigerian born player!
If they where better than anything Nigeria has I doubt it they'll reach 19-21 without being capped for their country of birth and they'll definitely be starters at club level,unless Nigeria are actually scouting them at a young age a now exactly what they are looking for you'll get the likes of Shola Ameobi and the guy with the do-rag taking squad spaces in the World Cup squad!
The most important thing is that they have Nigerian heritage. We are not like Spain (Diego Costa), Italy (Eder), Portugal ( Pepe) and Germany (Asamoah, Dundee etc) among others who cap players who have no heritage.
As long as they are above average I agree but I can't agree with players like Ameobi and San Sodji!
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

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Sheikh wrote:
Mr Shows wrote:
marutimon wrote:I don't like the extent of poaching for foreign born players. We have a 19 year old defender starting in France, but instead we want to search Germna-born players, because we trust them more than our own. And we end up not giving the chance or home-born players deserve.
Aren't they Nigerians? Shouldn't they have an equal chance to feature for their country of origin? Are they less Nigerian because they were born on foreign soil? The GWG should be the preserve of our best players whether they be black,brown, yellow or blue.. How many white players play for France?? This is one way to raise standards.
I am all for getting the very best wherever they may be, so long as they are Nigerians. It is important that we do all we can to put out our very best forward. We deserve to do so. My only gripe is the way average players groomed in the UK seem to be overrated, or valued higher than our home groomed players (even those playing in European leagues) who are much better than them. Please lets not lose sight of that distinction. If the standards in the UK were as high as we delude ourselves to believe, then why has England not been anywhere close to winning the World Cup or the European cup in the last half century? We should not expend our limited time and resources hustling after Ejaria, Ojo, Onomah, Tomori, Lookman etc to change their preference (they prefer England) or even Jordan (which is Germany) as they are no better than the likes of Nwakali, Azubuike, Joel Obi, Ajagun, Nura Abdullahi etc. I'll even say the same of Tammy, as I am NOT convinced he is all that, especially as his heart seems to be with England. These guys seem to only look the way of Nigeria after we have qualified, and it becomes clear they are not the cards of England or Germany. The only player I think is worth going out of our way to convince is Uduokhai.
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

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So a mediocre defender with limited tactical training should be given a chance of a player that has been properly schooled in a youth system for ten years and has Nigerian blood? What gives you the right to be a Nigerian? Is it because you live in Nigeria or because you have Nigerian parents, don't speak the language but love your parents homeland. Welcome to the 21st century. This is the new normal.

Besides any coach with a brain will lean towards an average player with a professional mentality. They are less likely to form a mutiny comes the quarter finals when bonuses for four are late. A Naija born core team will stop right there and skip practice until we are knocked out...:)

In all seriousness, diversity is key.
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

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nzeogwu wrote:So a mediocre defender with limited tactical training should be given a chance of a player that has been properly schooled in a youth system for ten years and has Nigerian blood? What gives you the right to be a Nigerian? Is it because you live in Nigeria or because you have Nigerian parents, don't speak the language but love your parents homeland. Welcome to the 21st century. This is the new normal.

Besides any coach with a brain will lean towards an average player with a professional mentality. They are less likely to form a mutiny comes the quarter finals when bonuses for four are late. A Naija born core team will stop right there and skip practice until we are knocked out...:)

In all seriousness, diversity is key.
:rotf: You can't trust too many Nigerians born in Nigeria.
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

Post by Cellular »

nzeogwu wrote:So a mediocre defender with limited tactical training should be given a chance of a player that has been properly schooled in a youth system for ten years and has Nigerian blood? What gives you the right to be a Nigerian? Is it because you live in Nigeria or because you have Nigerian parents, don't speak the language but love your parents homeland. Welcome to the 21st century. This is the new normal.

Besides any coach with a brain will lean towards an average player with a professional mentality. They are less likely to form a mutiny comes the quarter finals when bonuses for four are late. A Naija born core team will stop right there and skip practice until we are knocked out...:)

In all seriousness, diversity is key.
Kpom!

With the rate our folks have been checking out of the country due to lack of opportunities, we will continue to have our kids who have dual nationalities.

It is not like these kids are going to be handed the shirts just because they are foreign based Professionals.

Personally, I am all for it because these guys are using their real age. All I see is the upside... that they will actually be getting better.
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

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nzeogwu wrote:So a mediocre defender with limited tactical training should be given a chance of a player that has been properly schooled in a youth system for ten years and has Nigerian blood? What gives you the right to be a Nigerian? Is it because you live in Nigeria or because you have Nigerian parents, don't speak the language but love your parents homeland. Welcome to the 21st century. This is the new normal.

Besides any coach with a brain will lean towards an average player with a professional mentality. They are less likely to form a mutiny comes the quarter finals when bonuses for four are late. A Naija born core team will stop right there and skip practice until we are knocked out...:)

In all seriousness, diversity is key.
Agree with about EVERYTHING you wrote, except the highlighted...

If the English were so “properly schooled” in tactics, they would have won at least ONE trophy in our lifetimes (the Germans get a pass here for now). Abegi, let’s not fall for the same mentality that saw our forefathers sold off in exchange for shinny trinkets. Phonetics is not synonymous with quality (or properly-schooled tactics, in this instance).
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

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Cellular wrote:With the rate our folks have been checking out of the country due to lack of opportunities, we will continue to have our kids who have dual nationalities.

It is not like these kids are going to be handed the shirts just because they are foreign based Professionals.

Personally, I am all for it because these guys are using their real age. All I see is the upside... that they will actually be getting better.
Frankly that’s the ONLY potential weariness I have about this trend...
What ‘promises’ are being made to these players in the recruitment process?

Apart from that, I personally have no issues with it. The concept of national identity is an evolutionary one (there was a time our own forefathers were NOT ‘Nigerians’), and of course Nigeria has been recruiting foreign-born Nigerians since as far back as I can remember - the only new development being that the pool has gotten much bigger as the population of the Nigerian village abroad grows exponentially. Nonetheless (and this is a very important caveat), this should not work to unfairly deprive (or otherwise irregularly limit) those Nigerians born and raised in Nigeria of the same opportunities. In other words, the concept of an equalization (or non-discrimination) of opportunities should swing in BOTH DIRECTIONS, and players should also not be unduly or unfairly deprived merely because they happened to have been born and raised (or are domiciled) in Nigeria.
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

Post by Cellular »

Gotti wrote:
Cellular wrote:With the rate our folks have been checking out of the country due to lack of opportunities, we will continue to have our kids who have dual nationalities.

It is not like these kids are going to be handed the shirts just because they are foreign based Professionals.

Personally, I am all for it because these guys are using their real age. All I see is the upside... that they will actually be getting better.
Frankly that’s the ONLY potential weariness I have about this trend...
What ‘promises’ are being made to these players in the recruitment process?

Apart from that, I personally have no issues with it. The concept of national identity is an evolutionary one (there was a time our own forefathers were NOT ‘Nigerians’), and of course Nigeria has been recruiting foreign-born Nigerians since as far back as I can remember - the only new development being that the pool has gotten much bigger as the population of the Nigerian village abroad grows exponentially. Nonetheless (and this is a very important caveat), this should not work to unfairly deprive (or otherwise irregularly limit) those Nigerians born and raised in Nigeria of the same opportunities. In other words, the concept of an equalization (or non-discrimination) of opportunities should swing in BOTH DIRECTIONS, and players should also not be unduly or unfairly deprived merely because they happened to have been born and raised (or are domiciled) in Nigeria.
Chief Gotti, my only problem is that it could be like recruiting labor in Naijaria nowadays. Where folks rush to go to 'The Abroad' to get a Master's degree without the relevant work experience to be employable. I hope it does NOT go that route. E fit reach a point that the only Naija player we will field must have gotten their "Master's" in The Abroad. We need a football Masterplan.

We should really take a deeper look on how do we develop our football players to the point they are almost ready made to start anywhere like we used to have in the 80's and 90's just like we did with our educational system.
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

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Gotti wrote:
Cellular wrote:With the rate our folks have been checking out of the country due to lack of opportunities, we will continue to have our kids who have dual nationalities.

It is not like these kids are going to be handed the shirts just because they are foreign based Professionals.

Personally, I am all for it because these guys are using their real age. All I see is the upside... that they will actually be getting better.
Frankly that’s the ONLY potential weariness I have about this trend...
What ‘promises’ are being made to these players in the recruitment process?
Little I imagine. Perhaps Ebuehi was 'promised' he'd spend more time in the standby squad than on the field.
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

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The YeyeMan wrote:Little I imagine. Perhaps Ebuehi was 'promised' he'd spend more time in the standby squad than on the field.
Don't know if any 'promises' are made, but Ebuehi actually got to play...
Which is more than the likes of Ifeanyi or Aremu, who have also been on standby.
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

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Gotti wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:Little I imagine. Perhaps Ebuehi was 'promised' he'd spend more time in the standby squad than on the field.
But Ebuehi actually got to play (against Togo or so)...
Which is more than the likes of Ifeanyi or Aremu, who have also been on standby
Maybe he impressed more than they did in training? My point is that he hasn't been guaranteed a spot in the first XI and - for what it's worth (admittedly not much) - he hasn't dislodged a Nigerian-born player from the squad let alone the team.
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

Post by Damunk »

Tbite wrote:
marutimon wrote:I don't like the extent of poaching for foreign born players. We have a 19 year old defender starting in France, but instead we want to search Germna-born players, because we trust them more than our own. And we end up not giving the chance or home-born players deserve.
We are overdoing it. There is an acceptable limit, but we are crossing that limit.

We crossed that limit 10 fold in the Basketball team, but I thought...perhaps that could rekindle some interest in Basketball. But in football, our national sport? haba!

No more players who weren't nurtured in Naija abeg, at least for the next 2 years or so. E don do.
Abeg, tell us.
So what is the 'acceptable limit?
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

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The YeyeMan wrote:Maybe he impressed more than they did in training? My point is that he hasn't been guaranteed a spot in the first XI and - for what it's worth (admittedly not much) - he hasn't dislodged a Nigerian-born player from the squad let alone the team.
First, there’s nowhere I said they were “guaranteed” anything (specifically said I don’t know if any ‘promises’ are being made during the recruitment process). Nonetheless, how do you know for certain that Ebuehi “hasn’t dislodged a Nigerian-born player” (who might have “impressed” more than he did in training) if his invitation meant there was no available spots left?
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

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Gotti wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:Maybe he impressed more than they did in training? My point is that he hasn't been guaranteed a spot in the first XI and - for what it's worth (admittedly not much) - he hasn't dislodged a Nigerian-born player from the squad let alone the team.
First, there’s nowhere I said they were “guaranteed” anything (specifically said I don’t know if any ‘promises’ are being made during the recruitment process). Nonetheless, how do you know for certain that Ebuehi “hasn’t dislodged a Nigerian-born player” (who might have “impressed” more than he did in training) if his invitation meant there was no available spots left?
BTW, not to pick on Ebuehi (because my position had nothing to do specifically with him), but please feel free to search the forum for my initial (and subsequent) impression(s) of Ebuehi. ATM, he is simply not ready to contribute meaningfully to the SE and with a reasonable degree of near-certainty would likely not have been called up if he was a home based home-born player.
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

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Gotti wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:Maybe he impressed more than they did in training? My point is that he hasn't been guaranteed a spot in the first XI and - for what it's worth (admittedly not much) - he hasn't dislodged a Nigerian-born player from the squad let alone the team.
First, there’s nowhere I said they were “guaranteed” anything (specifically said I don’t know if any ‘promises’ are being made during the recruitment process). Nonetheless, how do you know for certain that Ebuehi “hasn’t dislodged a Nigerian-born player” (who might have “impressed” more than he did in training) if his invitation meant there was no available spots left?
Right. And I've concluded "promises" of guaranteed spots in the first team aren't being made. Based on what we've seen one would expect the only "promises" being made are that you'll be given a fair shot of making the team if good enough.

And we can figure out if anyone has been dislodged by looking at defenders - specifically right-backs - called up to the squad by Rohr before Ebuehi's invitation. Furthermore, we can be pretty sure he hasn't dislodged anyone from the squad since he doesn't make the squad himself.
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Re: Had a chat with Patrick yesterday on whatsapp

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Gotti wrote:
Gotti wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:Maybe he impressed more than they did in training? My point is that he hasn't been guaranteed a spot in the first XI and - for what it's worth (admittedly not much) - he hasn't dislodged a Nigerian-born player from the squad let alone the team.
First, there’s nowhere I said they were “guaranteed” anything (specifically said I don’t know if any ‘promises’ are being made during the recruitment process). Nonetheless, how do you know for certain that Ebuehi “hasn’t dislodged a Nigerian-born player” (who might have “impressed” more than he did in training) if his invitation meant there was no available spots left?
BTW, not to pick on Ebuehi (because my position had nothing to do specifically with him), but please feel free to search the forum for my initial (and subsequent) impression(s) of Ebuehi. ATM, he is simply not ready to contribute meaningfully to the SE and with a reasonable degree of near-certainty would likely not have been called up if he was a home based home-born player.
Yes, you've always been consistent on Ebuehi - no question about that.
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