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 Post subject: Re: Iheanacho is a flop
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:11 am 
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marutimon wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Sir V wrote:
kali wrote:
Iheanacho is still finding his feet (literally). He's not a striker. He's more of an AM. As a striker they are setting ridiculous expectations for him. He needs to go back to his natural position.


His ball control is below average. That is why he was shipped out of City.
What I can never understand is why the basics like ball control disappear in the adult game.
Iheanacho had excellent technique at the junior level.
The laws of motion and gravity have not changed.
It just doesnt make sense.


Exactly. I think its mostly a confidence thing. I think also Guardiola tried to change the way Iheanacho plays, how he controls the ball. Basically tried to change the way he played naturally and 'broke' him as a result. It might be issues like kick the ball differently, release the ball quickly and so on. Iheanacho stopped playing as per his natural instinct.

Even the first touch issue - he had no such issue during Ancelotti. And he was always a highly technical player with great ball control and superb passing range. Where is that player now?

I blame Guardiola.


Marutimon,

It appears you had not watched him closely. The first touch issue was pointed out as a problem ON CE, under Ancelotti, during Iheanacho's first preseason with the team in the USA. It was evident at that time and so also was the issue of trying to play for himself. The latter has gone away but not the former. The first touch problem is still there. There is no doubt that Kelechi has talent but talent alone will not sustain him as a professional player. Cellular mentioned the issue of Kele being overweight. IMHO, he does appear overweight and looks like someone strutting his stomach. If he is overweight, then that is a huge huge concern at this level.

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 Post subject: Re: Iheanacho is a flop
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:29 am 
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Posts: 1773
You are
Enugu II wrote:
marutimon wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Sir V wrote:
kali wrote:
Iheanacho is still finding his feet (literally). He's not a striker. He's more of an AM. As a striker they are setting ridiculous expectations for him. He needs to go back to his natural position.


His ball control is below average. That is why he was shipped out of City.
What I can never understand is why the basics like ball control disappear in the adult game.
Iheanacho had excellent technique at the junior level.
The laws of motion and gravity have not changed.
It just doesnt make sense.


Exactly. I think its mostly a confidence thing. I think also Guardiola tried to change the way Iheanacho plays, how he controls the ball. Basically tried to change the way he played naturally and 'broke' him as a result. It might be issues like kick the ball differently, release the ball quickly and so on. Iheanacho stopped playing as per his natural instinct.

Even the first touch issue - he had no such issue during Ancelotti. And he was always a highly technical player with great ball control and superb passing range. Where is that player now?

I blame Guardiola.


Marutimon,

It appears you had not watched him closely. The first touch issue was pointed out as a problem ON CE, under Ancelotti, during Iheanacho's first preseason with the team in the USA. It was evident at that time and so also was the issue of trying to play for himself. The latter has gone away but not the former. The first touch problem is still there. There is no doubt that Kelechi has talent but talent alone will not sustain him as a professional player. Cellular mentioned the issue of Kele being overweight. IMHO, he does appear overweight and looks like someone strutting his stomach. If he is overweight, then that is a huge huge concern at this level.


Sorry, but you are rewriting the past. Yes, he never had a great first touch, but it was pretty decent and he scored several goals off of his first touch.


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 Post subject: Re: Iheanacho is a flop
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:29 am 
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Posts: 33276
Location: Land of the Terrapins
marutimon wrote:
You are
Enugu II wrote:
marutimon wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Sir V wrote:
kali wrote:
Iheanacho is still finding his feet (literally). He's not a striker. He's more of an AM. As a striker they are setting ridiculous expectations for him. He needs to go back to his natural position.


His ball control is below average. That is why he was shipped out of City.
What I can never understand is why the basics like ball control disappear in the adult game.
Iheanacho had excellent technique at the junior level.
The laws of motion and gravity have not changed.
It just doesnt make sense.


Exactly. I think its mostly a confidence thing. I think also Guardiola tried to change the way Iheanacho plays, how he controls the ball. Basically tried to change the way he played naturally and 'broke' him as a result. It might be issues like kick the ball differently, release the ball quickly and so on. Iheanacho stopped playing as per his natural instinct.

Even the first touch issue - he had no such issue during Ancelotti. And he was always a highly technical player with great ball control and superb passing range. Where is that player now?

I blame Guardiola.


Marutimon,

It appears you had not watched him closely. The first touch issue was pointed out as a problem ON CE, under Ancelotti, during Iheanacho's first preseason with the team in the USA. It was evident at that time and so also was the issue of trying to play for himself. The latter has gone away but not the former. The first touch problem is still there. There is no doubt that Kelechi has talent but talent alone will not sustain him as a professional player. Cellular mentioned the issue of Kele being overweight. IMHO, he does appear overweight and looks like someone strutting his stomach. If he is overweight, then that is a huge huge concern at this level.


Sorry, but you are rewriting the past. Yes, he never had a great first touch, but it was pretty decent and he scored several goals off of his first touch.


His first touch has been so so in the EPL even under Pellegrini...

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 Post subject: Re: Iheanacho is a flop
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:19 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:13 am
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It wasn't great, but it was bad, like it is now.


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 Post subject: Re: Iheanacho is a flop
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:05 pm
Posts: 3340
marutimon wrote:
It wasn't great, but it was bad, like it is now.
Was his first touch this bad when he was with U17? He must have masked it cleverly nobody took notice. Something must have gone awry with the boy. I have never seen any player regressed in such geometrical regression. In the first match against Zambia his ball control then was excellent and also has dribbling skill which he completed bereft of right now. The boy seems to have fob off most of his numerous fans. What a shame


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 Post subject: Re: Iheanacho is a flop
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:13 am 
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Posts: 1773
Whenever people claim Kelechi always had a poor first touch I always think of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keisBGvwGfA

He also had that screamer at the U17 World Cup that was preceeded by a deft touch.


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 Post subject: Re: Iheanacho is a flop
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Posts: 473
Mauritimon, that clip is during the youth team games. Anyone with natural skill looks great at youth level. When you find a clip of Nacho doing that at adult level in 2016 to date, please share. And don't use the one off hat-trick against Crystal Palace either.

No one denies his talent. But, he cannot play in a 4-2-3-1, it's just not going to happen. The requirement for a lone striker is:

Hussle
Ball hold up
A solid first touch
Strength
Pace

He does not have that, Bonaventure does not and nor does Onyekuru. Their only option in Rohr's team is to play out wide. Of the three, Nacho cannot. That leaves him to be a playmaker. In the 4-2-3-1, there is zero need for one because it utilizes two defensive minded holding midfielders. Last option, super sub.

At club level, Nacho may "hide" his flaws in a team like Manchester City, Arsenal, Spurs. Team that rely on European style football or move to Spain.

Ighalo, Tammy, Nwakaeme, Fred Friday can all play the lone striker in the Eagles formation.


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 Post subject: Re: Iheanacho is a flop
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Posts: 1773
Have you watched these players?

Onyekuru does not have pace, hustle, a solid first touch? He doesn't have hold up play or strength but neither does Neymar. What he coes have is hustle abounds.

And you obviously have not seen Bonaventure play. He is pretty strong even though not very big, has a great first touch, is pretty pacy (not as pacy as Onyekuru though) plus his passing is superb. His hold up play is decent, but his dribbling is probably even better than Onyekuru's.

Iheanacho also does have pace. I have seen him outrun a lot of defenders. He's not super fast, but he's fast. Iheanacho also has ball control.

While we are at it: The player that should be looked into as a centre forward is Peter Olayinka. Strong, great first touch and his hold up play is brilliant.


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 Post subject: Re: Iheanacho is a flop
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:08 pm 
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nzeogwu wrote:
Mauritimon, that clip is during the youth team games. Anyone with natural skill looks great at youth level. When you find a clip of Nacho doing that at adult level in 2016 to date, please share. And don't use the one off hat-trick against Crystal Palace either.


vs Celtic - first touch, speed and finishing
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x54jvd1

vs Bournemouth - first touch, speed and finishing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-g3alZfF5c

vs Southampton - both goals - great first touch, superb hold up preceding the second goal

vs Stoke - great first touch, speed and finishing
https://www.mancity.com/citytv/goals/go ... stoke-2016

I do agree with one thing though - Iheanacho works best as a second striker who plays off a centre forward.


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 Post subject: Re: Iheanacho is a flop
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:39 am 
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Posts: 473
Nice clips Marutimon. I hope I am wrong for Kelechi's sake. I truly hope that it is a case of joining the wrong team/system. I wish him luck.

As for Naija, I do agree that Adegbenro, Olayinka, Nwakaeme, Fred Friday need a look in at forward and I also agree that Onyekuru and Dennis should get a look in as our wide forwards. Neither can be worse than Musa or Simon.

I will continue to wait for a fit and conditioned in form Bazee. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Iheanacho is a flop
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:31 am 
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cic old boy wrote:
Damunk wrote:
What I can never understand is why the basics like ball control disappear in the adult game.
Iheanacho had excellent technique at the junior level.
The laws of motion and gravity have not changed.
It just doesn't make sense.

Several reasons.

1. Maturity. A good grownup footballer would look brilliant against kids. That maturity is equalised when you are with peers.
2. Higher stakes mean more nerves which affect things like ball control.
3. Higher level of the game means better tactics/systems which deny space and time.
CIC, agreed the fear factor in youths is probably far less than when older but Kelechi was always a confident player, bordering on arrogant even.
I haven't had the chance to watch him since arriving at Leicester but if the observations are true, I am assuming his first touch problems are evident both when under pressure from opposing players and when not. The latter can't be solely down to nerves and tactics.
As for maturity, you and me nor go gree on that one. Kelechi was no more mature than the players he was terrorising in his U17 days, both on the world stage and particularly in Africa where we can safely assume many of his opponents were older..

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 Post subject: Re: Iheanacho is a flop
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:24 pm 
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After watching Ighalo live in Watford before his move, i realised how bad TV can sometimes potray players - Ighalo is seriously very good!!!. Kelechi can definitely improve and I hope he does, but rubbish he is not. I noticed Vardy moving back into the centre in Shakespear last game and thought that was disrespectful when he should have been on the left. Not sure if Craig authorised it but CS has always struck me as someone not very tactically astute nor managerially adept. His sacking is therefore long overdue. Once Leicester decides which direction it wants to go - possesion, route-1, counter-attack etc then the incoming coach will decide if a place exist for Kele in that team. I wish Kele all the best in his career but sure he is definitely not finished.

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