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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:05 pm 
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I doubt a black coach will be offered second chance at top flight football, if he had the record of David Moyes.


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Did West Ham ask Sunderland’s Ellis Short for the lowdown on David Moyes?
The man appointed to replace Slaven Bilic was deemed dated by his players when on Wearside, where he became shrouded in a cloak of negativity

Football club executives like to talk up the amount of “due diligence” they routinely undertake before hiring anyone but such boasts sometimes end up ringing hollow.

Anyone who watched Sunderland regularly last season can be forgiven for wondering precisely how much homework West Ham United did before appointing David Moyes to replace Slaven Bilic.

Had they, for instance, talked to Jermain Defoe? In a revealing interview last autumn Defoe, now with Bournemouth but then leading Moyes’s Wearside attack, said he felt the team had gone backwards since the Scot replaced Sam Allardyce in July 2016.

“We’ve given away stupid goals with schoolboy errors, the kind of goals we wouldn’t have given away last season,” Defoe said. “From where we were I feel like we’ve gone backwards. We’ve not hit our old levels. We’re trying to play one-twos on the edges of our box. We’re not solid. We need to get back to the mentality we had before.”

At that point the majority of Sunderland’s squad – admittedly not necessarily the most harmonious or high-quality bunch – had already lost faith in the former Everton, Manchester United and Real Sociedad manager.

They duly finished bottom of the Premier League, winning only six top-tier games all season – none at home after mid December – and signed off with a goal difference of minus 40.

The general tone was set as early as August when, following a home defeat by Middlesbrough, Moyes announced that a relegation struggle beckoned. Prophecies can rarely have proved as self-fulfilling. Granted Sunderland were woefully short on pace and creativity but it did not help that he kept describing his players as “limited”.

As senior professionals muttered about training being “old-fashioned”, with inordinate amounts of time devoted to crossing practice, Allardyce’s successor increasingly came across as a bit dated.

Despite deploying multiple formations through the campaign, his tactics often seemed two-dimensional at best. “David couldn’t get inside the players’ heads, particularly the foreign players,” said an insider, citing his sidelining of the previously influential, suddenly underachieving Tunisia winger Wahbi Khazri as a prime example.

It is said that travel broadens the mind but Moyes’s Spanish odyssey appeared to exert the reverse effect. Perhaps his Basque culture shock explains why part of his £30m summer of 2016 spend for Sunderland was invested in several players he had previously worked with at either Goodison Park or Old Trafford, including Victor Anichebe, Adnan Januzaj, Steven Pienaar and Paddy McNair. Last January the arrival of Darron Gibson, Joleon Lescott and Bryan Oviedo boosted the number of old boys reunited. True, money was tight but such signings smacked of laziness.

In mitigation Moyes had been unaware that Ellis Short, Sunderland’s owner, wanted to sell up or that the club was £110m in debt. Such straitened finances led to a mass of redundancies, announced in February. Moyes was aware such cuts were looming when, only a week before, he was away in New York with the squad, indulging in “boys bonding”, which he suggested could help avert relegation.

It not only failed spectacularly but prompted suspicions that his refusal to cancel the trip when so many support staff were about to lose their livelihoods betrayed a shallow, uncaring character arguably out of touch with the reality of many lower-paid colleagues’ lives.

A coach renowned for dynamism and meticulousness at Everton bristled at the merest suggestion that his own limitations may have been “found out” on the road between Stretford and San Sebastián while persistently blaming others for Sunderland’s failings.

“A lot of good managers have been relegated,” he said in April. “I’ll use this to motivate myself.”

West Ham have given him that opportunity but did they get round to consulting Short first? “We’d been in the Premier League 10 years,” Sunderland’s owner said only last Friday. “And I’d always felt like we were fighting. But last season the way we got relegated was particularly frustrating because I didn’t really feel like we had that fight. Getting relegated in last place was particularly galling, especially since the second half of that season before, when we’d survived, was the best half season we’d ever had. We’d been quite good so we’d gone into that summer on a note of optimism.”

Moyes soon put paid to that.

Moyes’ summer spend for Sunderland in 2016
Victor Anichebe (free agent, former Moyes player – Everton)

Adnan Januzaj (Man Utd, loan, former Moyes player)

Paddy McNair (Man Utd, £4.5m, former Moyes)

Donald Love (Man Utd, £1.5m, former Moyes)

Steven Pienaar (free agent, former Moyes – Everton)

Papy Djilobodji (Chelsea, £8m)

Didier Ndong (Lorient £13.6m)

Jason Denayer (Manchester City loan)

Javier Manquillo (Atlético Madrid, loan)

January 2017
Joleon Lescott (free agent, former Moyes – Everton)

Darron Gibson (Everton, former Moyes)

Bryan Oviedo (Everton, former Moyes)

The last two for a joint £7.5m

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... llis-short




Last edited by realtrouble on Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:52 pm 
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Let's see how West Ham will perform under him.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:03 pm 
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He was successful at Everton. No?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:43 pm 
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i knew this thread was coming lol
but i agree


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:03 pm 
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1naija wrote:
He was successful at Everton. No?

Yes he was.

...But he was a disaster in Manchester United , Real Sociedad and relegated Sunderland after spending £30 million.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:41 pm 
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realtrouble wrote:
1naija wrote:
He was successful at Everton. No?

Yes he was.

...But he was a disaster in Manchester United , Real Sociedad and relegated Sunderland after spending £30 million.


Maybe West Ham's goal is not win the EPL like Man U.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:16 pm 
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realtrouble wrote:
1naija wrote:
He was successful at Everton. No?

Yes he was.

...But he was a disaster in Manchester United , Real Sociedad and relegated Sunderland after spending £30 million.

So in that case it's more like a fourth chance not second.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:27 pm 
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theYemster wrote:
realtrouble wrote:
1naija wrote:
He was successful at Everton. No?

Yes he was.

...But he was a disaster in Manchester United , Real Sociedad and relegated Sunderland after spending £30 million.

So in that case it's more like a fourth chance not second.


And with West Ham in similar situation with Sunderland, your guess is as good as mine.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:09 pm 
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I am listening to these folks on tv sing of Moyes as being the right man to save Westham from relegation...they are not old people else i would have said they were struggling from amnesia....was it not the same Moyes who just relegated Sunderland, he started with them from the beginning and he could not save them.

Damn i should have come this world a white man..i will be entitled to white privileges too! I feel like puking just listening to these dishonest folks.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:14 pm 
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oloye wrote:
I am listening to these folks on tv sing of Moyes as being the right man to save Westham from relegation...they are not old people else i would have said they were struggling from amnesia....was it not the same Moyes who just relegated Sunderland, he started with them from the beginning and he could not save them.

Damn i should habe come this world a white man..i will be entitled to white privileges too! I feel like puking just listening to these dishonest folks.



It's not too late for you. You can even say football been "bery bery" good to you.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:22 pm 
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1naija wrote:
oloye wrote:
I am listening to these folks on tv sing of Moyes as being the right man to save Westham from relegation...they are not old people else i would have said they were struggling from amnesia....was it not the same Moyes who just relegated Sunderland, he started with them from the beginning and he could not save them.

Damn i should habe come this world a white man..i will be entitled to white privileges too! I feel like puking just listening to these dishonest folks.



It's not too late for you. You can even say football been "bery bery" good to you.


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Your house nor dey head...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:22 am 
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Moyes probably has impeccable references from the likes of Sir Alex Ferguson.

The owners know that if Moyes needs advice, he will call Sir Alex and others for a solution. If they don't know they know who does and will make that call.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:52 am 
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Kabalega wrote:
Moyes probably has impeccable references from the likes of Sir Alex Ferguson.

The owners know that if Moyes needs advice, he will call Sir Alex and others for a solution. If they don't know they know who does and will make that call.

So his phone was not working in Manchester, Sociedad and Sunderland?

In hindsight he probably should've just stayed at Everton, where he managed to do just enough. They wouldn't have fired him and he'd likely still be there. It's probably for this same reason Wenger refuses to leave Arsenel. Fear of failure elsewhere.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:21 am 
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1naija wrote:
He was successful at Everton. No?

He was a complete disaster at his next 3 jobs - Manure, Sociedad and Sunderland. So the Everton "success" could be seen as an aberration.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:10 am 
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Follows the long lines of average coaches from

David O'Leary
Mick Mc Carthy
Sam Allardice (ok he is above average)
Harry Redknapp
David Moyes

I'd say British/Irish privilege

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:08 pm 
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oloye wrote:
I am listening to these folks on tv sing of Moyes as being the right man to save Westham from relegation...they are not old people else i would have said they were struggling from amnesia....was it not the same Moyes who just relegated Sunderland, he started with them from the beginning and he could not save them.

Damn i should have come this world a white man..i will be entitled to white privileges too! I feel like puking just listening to these dishonest folks.



West Ham fans are not happy with the appointment, even if he saves them from relegation doubt he would win them over.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:15 pm 
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So which kin privilege dey operate for Nigeria??? Imagine Oyibo build em own league and dey look after em own and una dey complain : :rotf:

Na dem tell una to Useless una country and una football league? Abeg make una go siddon

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:27 pm 
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1naija wrote:
oloye wrote:
I am listening to these folks on tv sing of Moyes as being the right man to save Westham from relegation...they are not old people else i would have said they were struggling from amnesia....was it not the same Moyes who just relegated Sunderland, he started with them from the beginning and he could not save them.

Damn i should habe come this world a white man..i will be entitled to white privileges too! I feel like puking just listening to these dishonest folks.



It's not too late for you. You can even say football been "bery bery" good to you.


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...when I saw that Sammy Sosa color change na laf I laf tire. Like many of our Afro-black folks white is it. Sad!

I loved the guy during home run derby/challenge with Mark McGuire of the late 90s.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:27 pm 
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I have nothing against Moyes, but I sometimes wonder how these management teams/chairmen make decisions. Of all the coaches you could possibly approach, Moyes was your best bet???

Honestly, were I a shareholder, I'd sell. Not because I have anything against Moyes perse, but the management team that thought he was the best option is sure to do some other boneheaded things.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Coaching appointments are about relationships. We've seen all manner of coaches fail in the EPL, it's an impressive list. Several non briish ones have been recycled too.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:50 pm 
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deanotito wrote:
I have nothing against Moyes, but I sometimes wonder how these management teams/chairmen make decisions. Of all the coaches you could possibly approach, Moyes was your best bet???

Honestly, were I a shareholder, I'd sell. Not because I have anything against Moyes perse, but the management team that thought he was the best option is sure to do some other boneheaded things.


Very much doubt you sell with golden egg of media rights that's making EPL clubs attractive to the owners and they panic when they look like they going to be relegated.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:53 pm 
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anikulapo wrote:
So which kin privilege dey operate for Nigeria??? Imagine Oyibo build em own league and dey look after em own and una dey complain : :rotf:

Na dem tell una to Useless una country and una football league? Abeg make una go siddon



The issue is ethnic minorities who helped with building the league are not really being looked after as you say.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:51 pm 
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Guv007 wrote:
anikulapo wrote:
So which kin privilege dey operate for Nigeria??? Imagine Oyibo build em own league and dey look after em own and una dey complain : :rotf:

Na dem tell una to Useless una country and una football league? Abeg make una go siddon



The issue is ethnic minorities who helped with building the league are not really being looked after as you say.



Well neither ethnic minorities nor majorities in Nigeria know what the hell they are doing in the Nigerian league. Focus and fix ya house before crying about someone else’s abeg. This nah Soccer and no be science :roll:

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