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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:32 am 
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wiseone wrote:
I have no problem with it.
After all Belgium and France have a bunch of Africans and Spaniards in their team! Switzerland have a bunch of Albanians and Kosovans, and half the Albanian team are Swiss citizens!


It is impossible to make this argument properly, when people do not even judge it right.

1) One fallacy is the good ol, but they are African argument, and who said they aren't?
2) Another fallacy is the good ol, but what about Western countries benefiting from African immigrants
3) And another fallacy is to draw from a direct parallel, i.e. foreign citizens who are Alien to European systems.

I am coming at this 100% from the perspective of Systematic Integration. Our dual citizens, as Nigerian as they are (and yes they are very much Nigerian), are unfortunately products of a foreign system 10 times moreso than they are of our system.

These are Africans and yes they are definitely Africans), who have NEVER played in Africa in any capacity, who go straight into the National team. To base a team completely around this concept is pointless. It serves no purpose IMO.

There is nothing I hate more in this world that creating something just for the sake of creating it. Why replicate a system, call it a different name, and pass it off as novel? We MUST ALWAYS have players who have played in the Nigerian system in some way, in the team. Yes they can be complemented by some players who haven't, but if you have a team based entirely around such players, that is not an African system. Perhaps it is a football team of people with African heritage and an African togetherness, but it is a French, English, Spanish, German system.

This has nothing to do with identity or a bias. I am saying something that a two year old should be able to grasp. What is within the system and what is without?

For the last time, let me say that there is NOTHING WRONG with some injection of players who have never played in Africa before, but if you have a team based entirely on such players, it is mind blogging. It is not simply a question of familiarity, but more importantly the fact that you are dealing with players that you played no part in and you never planned for. It is fitting square pegs into round holes, something that is permissible in small doses, but is ludicrous when it becomes the system as a whole.

I do not even consider this to be an argument. But just for curiosity's sake, can someone actually make an argument (and please don't go off on a tangent about how they are African, they ARE African and that is not what I am arguing).

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Inaction has been considered a grave danger, but 'misaction' is a greater evil. With inaction, a known problem grows in magnitude; however, with misaction a known problem morphs into an unspecified number of known and unknown derivatives of the initial problem. With inaction you are left with a gargantuan disaster, but with misaction you are left with an untold variety of gargantuan disasters. Act swiftly, but more importantly do not respond inappropriately. Awon musings lati enu tbite.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:15 am 
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Tbite wrote:
wiseone wrote:
I have no problem with it.
After all Belgium and France have a bunch of Africans and Spaniards in their team! Switzerland have a bunch of Albanians and Kosovans, and half the Albanian team are Swiss citizens!


It is impossible to make this argument properly, when people do not even judge it right.

1) One fallacy is the good ol, but they are African argument, and who said they aren't?
2) Another fallacy is the good ol, but what about Western countries benefiting from African immigrants
3) And another fallacy is to draw from a direct parallel, i.e. foreign citizens who are Alien to European systems.

I am coming at this 100% from the perspective of Systematic Integration. Our dual citizens, as Nigerian as they are (and yes they are very much Nigerian), are unfortunately products of a foreign system 10 times moreso than they are of our system.

These are Africans and yes they are definitely Africans), who have NEVER played in Africa in any capacity, who go straight into the National team. To base a team completely around this concept is pointless. It serves no purpose IMO.

There is nothing I hate more in this world that creating something just for the sake of creating it. Why replicate a system, call it a different name, and pass it off as novel? We MUST ALWAYS have players who have played in the Nigerian system in some way, in the team. Yes they can be complemented by some players who haven't, but if you have a team based entirely around such players, that is not an African system. Perhaps it is a football team of people with African heritage and an African togetherness, but it is a French, English, Spanish, German system.

This has nothing to do with identity or a bias. I am saying something that a two year old should be able to grasp. What is within the system and what is without?

For the last time, let me say that there is NOTHING WRONG with some injection of players who have never played in Africa before, but if you have a team based entirely on such players, it is mind blogging. It is not simply a question of familiarity, but more importantly the fact that you are dealing with players that you played no part in and you never planned for. It is fitting square pegs into round holes, something that is permissible in small doses, but is ludicrous when it becomes the system as a whole.

I do not even consider this to be an argument. But just for curiosity's sake, can someone actually make an argument (and please don't go off on a tangent about how they are African, they ARE African and that is not what I am arguing).



You are creating arguments to back your position. Injecting 25 Europe based players into an African NT serves the purpose of
1. constituting a team of nationals eligible to play for the country
2. fighting for a chance at lifting the WC with nationals wearing the colors of the country

The need to develop a country's football talent will always be there and no one is discounting that, but to theorize that foreign born and bred Africans are not eligible to fill all vacant spots on their NT is some form of discrimation. funny how you are hiding it behind some facade of intellectualism

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:04 am 
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It has to be intellectualism, because people put words into the mouth of others, or find little trivial matters that are superfluous to dance around.

I am not arguing here, I am still waiting for the argument.

I never said that they were not eligible. Everybody with a Nigerian passport is eligible to play for the NT. I am eligible, you are eligible, Ayo Akinfe is eligible! Wizkid is eligible, Obasanjo is eligible, Mr Ibu is eligible, just as Iheanacho is eligible.

but some are more eligible than others. And that greater eligibility is not based on some superficial logic or discrimination, but based PURELY on footballing terms. I am arguing PURELY on footballing terms. This is something that my detractors need to realize. Let that sink in for a moment.

Around the time when Keshi was parading weak players in the bench (rightly or wrongly), the saying "The sum of the individual parts is greater than the whole" resurfaced among Nigerian fans and analysts. But I would like to use that saying for a different purpose. How can the sum of the individual parts be greater if the individual parts are indiscriminately forged and sourced.

If you have two players, and one has a 95% ability and that player came from the Nigerian youth system, and you have another player that has 100% ability and came from the Norwegian youth system, I am playing the one from the Nigerian youth system first!

Because ultimately he will even have a greater impact, because of the holistic system. Now two or three foreign parts in a starting build or four or five foreign parts in the total build will not make a team disjointed. But 8 or 9 foreign parts in a starting build and 15-20 foreign parts in a total build leads to total incoherence, and worse yet, replication.

There is no bias, I am saying the system is crucial and cannot be jettisoned, simply on the basis of eligibility. We would not jettison fitness requirements for Ayo Akinfe, so why would relax 'systems based' requirements for any individual? You do not have an unconditional right to play for Nigeria, even if you carry the passport! You do have a theoretical eligibility, and that eligibility is strengthened if you are good, and even more so if you are from the system. On the subject of if my child wanted to play, well he would be competing for the few spots permissible to foreign nurtured talents. I certainly would find it ludicrous if the entire team was populated by players who never played in the Nigerian system.

To begin to get an idea into how I am thinking, I am even suggesting that foreign raised Nigerians should be targeted at earlier ages, to play for our youth teams! I do not want ready-made players that we cannot instil our footballing sense into. I want us to start calling up players to play for our U15, U17 sides, even U13 sides. You do not just carry the passport, you play Nigerian football. That is why it is called the Nigerian football team, not the Football team of Nigerians. If you cannot see the difference, well......something is amiss somewhere.

It is alright to some degree, let me say it for the umpteenth time. It is alright, it is fine...to SOME DEGREE, but when it becomes central to the team or squad, there is no way on earth I will endorse that. Pigs will fly first before I come on board.

_________________
Inaction has been considered a grave danger, but 'misaction' is a greater evil. With inaction, a known problem grows in magnitude; however, with misaction a known problem morphs into an unspecified number of known and unknown derivatives of the initial problem. With inaction you are left with a gargantuan disaster, but with misaction you are left with an untold variety of gargantuan disasters. Act swiftly, but more importantly do not respond inappropriately. Awon musings lati enu tbite.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:48 am 
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Tbite your argument is too weak, too long and too boring.
Go and sleep jor.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:17 am 
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Damunk wrote:
Tbite your argument is too weak, too long and too boring.
Go and sleep jor.


Completely weak argument.

In all works of life, Naijarians travel to seek better opportunities. Most homegrown players are waiting to be discovered. Talent without proper training will not amount to much when it goes against a well-trained team. A team where everyone knows what is expected of them at all times... this is not choosing anymore.

The game has evolved. It is not just about raw talent...

For Naijaria to reach its full potential we have to use our best... in all facets of life.

To think that Naijarians are actually proffering argument in support of discrimination and quota over competence?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:06 pm 
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Did anyone think it was immoral for Spain to cap the Brazilian Diego Costa or when Portugal capped two Brazilians named Deco and Pepe?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:34 am 
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Ayo Akinfe wrote:
If they had used local born players they would be watching Russia 2018 at home along with Ghana, Cameroon, Algeria and Ivory Coast. Plato spoke about a thing called "The chief good." You have to decide what is applicable for your situation at every moment in time.

Nothing stops Morocco looking for home-grown youngsters will using "merceneries" at the World Cup. If anything, success at a global stage will greatly assist in bringing out a lot of young talent. Just to put things into perspective, I remember the US Army saying that it was having no problem recruiting during the Gulf War because combat was on TV all the time.


With all due respect, you have no clue about African football at all.

Tunisia and Egypt used players from STRONG local league and they landed in Russia.

Please Google Wydad Casablanca :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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