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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:23 am 
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Enugu II wrote:

Why don't we wait for the smart brother to bring up his objective moments where Awaziem missed headers? I sense we may have to wait a long time. :dream:


watch who was marking the goalscorer at 0:50

watch who was marking the goal scorer at 0:44

Now pls provide objective evidence he was our best defender against southafrica as you claim
Pls none of your usual waffle.
Just point to the timestamped moments to evidence your claim


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:38 am 
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Enugu II wrote:

BTW, one correction. I had stated that Awaziem was best Nigerian defender on that day. That is inaccurate. I looked back at my match sheet and the best was Shehu but Awaziem did better than Ekong.

Your match sheet abi? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Anyway I'm glad you admit your earlier statement was a bold faced lie.
I accept there's some room for subjectivity but saying Awaziem had a good let alone the best defender vs Southafrica was shameless reinvention of the truth.
Which is why i called it out.
I hope you think twice in the future before recklessly telling lies here


Last edited by smartbrother on Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:48 am 
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Dammy wrote:
smartbrother wrote:
Ayo Akinfe wrote:
Given how Balogun struggles for pace, will Rohr be bold enough to play Awaziem in his place in a back four? Balogun is our rock at the back but I worry about how he got done for pace by quick Argentine strikers.

the last time ROhr made that mistake we conceded cheap goals vs Southafrica
Awaziem is weak in the air.
Believe me the defensive solidity we take for granted will be jeopardized if we play Awaziem in a back four

My bro, you are wrong on that one. One of Awaziem's strengths is his ariel ability.

My brother, remember when you were arguing with me about Balogun being good in possession and being our best central defender
I noticed you've gone quiet on that front.
:lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:43 am 
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That Awaziem is good in the air does not mean he will not be beaten occasionally in the air. i doubt if there is any defender that wins all ariel tussles. Balogun has been out of sorts, being injured and not playing for his club 2 weeks before the matches against Algeria and Argentina, so I would not judge him on those matches.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:53 pm 
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smartbrother wrote:
Enugu II wrote:

BTW, one correction. I had stated that Awaziem was best Nigerian defender on that day. That is inaccurate. I looked back at my match sheet and the best was Shehu but Awaziem did better than Ekong.

Your match sheet abi? :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Anyway I'm glad you admit your earlier statement was a bold faced lie.
I accept there's some room for subjectivity but saying Awaziem had a good let alone the best defender vs Southafrica was shameless reinvention of the truth.
Which is why i called it out.
I hope you think twice in the future before recklessly telling lies here


I absolutely have no problem making a correction if my check of information shows that I was inaccurate. It isn't the first time and it will not be the last time. In this case, it is warranted because my match sheet showed that Shehu had a better game than Awaziem and I acknowledged it. However, it also points out that Awaziem had a better game than Ekong against your previous statement. Hopefully, you will take this opportunity to admit that you are wrong.

If you base your statements solely on objectivity as you previously claimed, it may be best for you to produce that objective data on Ekong's performance against South Africa for CE to examine. If not, then it indicates that you are in no position to demonize other CE members who have shared their subjective opinions which are essentially the only thing that you have been able to demonstrate as well.

Hopefully, you will realize that if you put up subjective information then do not demonize other CE members who put up their own subjective information. This place thrives on such subjectivity. However, if you have information that is factual then you may share it as it is likely to help all of us on CE to better understand what is going on.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:46 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
I absolutely have no problem making a correction if my check of information shows that I was inaccurate. It isn't the first time and it will not be the last time. In this case, it is warranted because my match sheet showed that Shehu had a better game than Awaziem and I acknowledged it

PLs What is a match sheet? :rotf: :rotf:
If by "inaccurate" you mean you were telling a bold faced lie, then we agree. Yes you were being 'inaccurate'. You are a very 'inaccurate' man
Why would anyone would need a "match sheet" to remember Awaziem wasnt the BEST defender against Southafrica?One of our most recent matches.
The match was like 6 months ago.

Enugu II wrote:
If you base your statements solely on objectivity as you previously claimed, it may be best for you to produce that objective data on Ekong's performance against South Africa for CE to examine. If not, then it indicates that you are in no position to demonize other CE members who have shared their subjective opinions which are essentially the only thing that you have been able to demonstrate as well.


See me see trouble o. Please point to where i assessed Ekong's performance against Southafrica. On this thread.
The one statement i did make - about Awaziem being weak in the air - you challenged me to provide evidence for...which i have done.
you conveniently ignored my response and are now challenging me to provide data on a performance i did not analyze.
Meanwhile you have not given one shred of evidence to supportany of your ridiculous claims yourself.
How am i to take you seriously


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:06 am 
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smartbrother wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
I absolutely have no problem making a correction if my check of information shows that I was inaccurate. It isn't the first time and it will not be the last time. In this case, it is warranted because my match sheet showed that Shehu had a better game than Awaziem and I acknowledged it

PLs What is a match sheet? :rotf: :rotf:
If by "inaccurate" you mean you were telling a bold faced lie, then we agree. Yes you were being 'inaccurate'. You are a very 'inaccurate' man
Why would anyone would need a "match sheet" to remember Awaziem wasnt the BEST defender against Southafrica?One of our most recent matches.
The match was like 6 months ago.

Enugu II wrote:
If you base your statements solely on objectivity as you previously claimed, it may be best for you to produce that objective data on Ekong's performance against South Africa for CE to examine. If not, then it indicates that you are in no position to demonize other CE members who have shared their subjective opinions which are essentially the only thing that you have been able to demonstrate as well.


See me see trouble o. Please point to where i assessed Ekong's performance against Southafrica. On this thread.
The one statement i did make - about Awaziem being weak in the air - you challenged me to provide evidence for...which i have done.
you conveniently ignored my response and are now challenging me to provide data on a performance i did not analyze.
Meanwhile you have not given one shred of evidence to supportany of your ridiculous claims yourself.
How am i to take you seriously


This is too funny.

You're the one who has been proven by the facts to be flat out wrong on this thread, yet you are still asking for the facts again. Talk about digging.

I had never seen Awaziem before the Bafana game. I had heard of him as a fringe/reserve Porto player and the move to France had not happened. Interestingly, I posted my player ratings on here and it is not too different from Enugu's conclusion. I had Awaziem and Shehu as some of the better players on the day, and Enugu II has certainly proven himself to be one of teh top football minds on this forum.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=281098&hilit=bafana

Rating vs. Bafana:

Rating is out of 10 & in (Parenthesis). No one gets a zero because showing up counts for something.

Echiejile – (1) Responsible for the 1st goal. Took a ridiculous dive when he was in a scoring position earlier. Faithful but barely capable player at his best, not an International level player now that he has lost a step or two, and fatigues out in the 2nd half.

Akpeyi – (1) – Not an International level keeper. It is sad when the opponents are excited that his presence in goal gives them the best chance of beating Nigeria. And he didn’t disappoint them. He makes errors, inspires no confidence, and will cost us every time.

Nacho – (2) – Nigeria’s biggest talent might end up being more of a Martins than Yekini in terms of National team impact, unless there is a change in attitude. Didn’t hustle, pulled back from balls he was favorite to get, had a spat with the crowd, no urgency during substitution when we were behind. Kept the bus waiting for about 5 minutes at the hotel. Hopefully it was just a bad day, but I’m not so sure.

Iwobi – (2) – I would have subbed him in the 1st half if I was coach. Didn’t seem to take the game serious. Repeatedly trying turnover causing flicks and tricks instead of going for the simple and obvious. Maybe he would have more effective playing through the middle, but he was a big reason why we didn’t have a lot of useful possessions in the offensive 3rd. Team bus waited for him for a couple of minutes as well, but Mr. Nacho was even later.

Rohr – (3) – Sometimes, it is just a bad day, but that Bafana team will beat the team we put out in Uyo again if they played tomorrow, & that is on the coach. He was outcoached by Baxter in terms of tactics and personnel (& we have an advantage in this regard). To his credit, he got the right players off (he needed 5 substitutes to fully do that), but some of the problems with the team should not have been there in the first place. The timing of this blip can be good for the team if he takes the right corrective measures. The spotlight is on him now.

Simon – (3) – He was probably the best forward player, but that isn’t saying very much. He was full of running, willing to take on an opponent or two and try to get us into threatening positions. The decision making and final balls were horrible. He’d cross when he can make a run to the 6 yard box, over-cross into touch, or something totally frustrating after initial good work. He, like Musa, might just be good in small doses only.

Onazi – (4) – Not showing enough leadership to be vice-captain and losing the edge to his game that had us calling him ‘energizer bunny’. The pattern so many times with him in the game seemed to be: ‘demand the ball from the Defenese = Waste time with it, while gesturing that you’re looking for runners or lanes up front – make a sideways pass or another pass to a non-threatening position after Bafana’s Defense is fully set. With Ndidi’s emergence, he may find himself on the bench with a full house and no injuries in camp.

Musa – (4) – Maybe he was fasting, as he didn’t really provide a spark off the bench. A but unfair that we continue to have winger expectations for a support striker, but he must be judged based on the role he plays for the Eagles. Good in limited doses, as he has tools to change a game quickly, but can be costly over 90 minutes.

Ndidi – (5) – Far too upfield too many times. I’m not sure if he was playing to instruction or was trying to take matters into his own hand for a team that was out of sorts with the forward players having horrible games. He is at his best when he is in front of the back 4 (or 3), breaking up plays and initiating attacks with outlet passes. Forays forward are ok, but should be occasional and at opportune times. I don’t remember him getting a shot on target even though he had a sight on goal on at least 2 occasions.

Etebo – (5) – Came closest to scoring for the Eagles. Tried to force the action a number of times, and could have had 2 goals with more composure, but it looks like Etebo might be an exceptional support guy, but not the main man. Can we afford to have Etebo & Iwobi on the pitch at the same time, especially if Mikel is available? Could Iwobi be better in that central area? So many questions. Can’t knock his hustle and intensity though.

Ekong – (5) – Adequate defender who has been there for us in the last year or two. Wasn’t exceptional & got lost and easily beaten a few times. Average performance on a day the team played poorly.

Awaziem – (5) – OK debut for a good, young, athletic defender. I can’t believe some people are calling him out with the abundance of horror shows from several other players. The fact that he had to deal with a number of breakaways shows that other players were poor on the day. I won’t be surprised to see him start alongside Balogun when we have a full house in camp.

Osimhen – (5) – Not enough time to really make a full judgment, so I’ll just go into adaptive test mode and leave him with the average score.

Shehu – (5) – Didn’t rise above the fray, but was not the direct source of any major incident. I’ve seen him put in worse shifts for the Eagles, so average score well deserved.

Kayode – (6) – Not a fan of his game, but came with intensity and effort while he was on. He is probably the only person on the day that deserves an above average score.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:15 am 
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truetalk wrote:
You're the one who has been proven by the facts to be flat out wrong on this thread, yet you are still asking for the facts again. Talk about digging.


really? pls explain where or how i have been "proven by facts to be flat wrong"? just a simple request then we can carry on our discussion.

as for your player ratings they have no real substance - Just subjective opinion mixed in with banal observations. Even your language is boring & unoriginal
overall i rate your ratings ZERO out of TEN.
the problem truetalk, is your subjective opinion is worthless to me as i subjectively rate you as one of lowest football minds on this forum
Tbh it feels like we are going around in circles. not sure where we go from here? :dream: :dream:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:59 pm 
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smartbrother wrote:
Enugu II wrote:

Why don't we wait for the smart brother to bring up his objective moments where Awaziem missed headers? I sense we may have to wait a long time. :dream:


watch who was marking the goalscorer at 0:50

watch who was marking the goal scorer at 0:44

Now pls provide objective evidence he was our best defender against southafrica as you claim
Pls none of your usual waffle.
Just point to the timestamped moments to evidence your claim


Bros,

Actually, if you noted the moment in the video it isn't about missing a header but about being poorly positioned. Those are in fact two different things. In any case, I hope you realize that an enduring characteristic is established with a pattern and not a one time occurrence. Are we to conclude, for instance, that the South African playing rounding up Ekong in the 1:08 minute of the same video indicates that Ekong is lead-footed? I will think not except if there are other examples to establish a pattern. Of course, with your analysis one gets the idea that one such incidence is enough to reach a conclusion. However, I am certain that experienced analysis require more than one occurrence to reach such a conclusion. In essence, what is needed from you are multiple examples of Awaziem missing headers (not poor positioning, btw). Also, your claim that Ekong was better in that game needs video examples from that game as well. Please provide those since they may serve as objective valuations, if only they are interpreted accurately.

Since your recollection is averse to recollection of others in CE and further you have called for objective video evidence, the onus is on you to provide such evidence for evaluation. Therefore, please provide a full match video for us to objectively evaluate performances of the players as you called for. Surely, a few seconds of goal scoring activities do not define a player's performance in a full match, even you should be aware of that difference.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:09 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
smartbrother wrote:
Enugu II wrote:

Why don't we wait for the smart brother to bring up his objective moments where Awaziem missed headers? I sense we may have to wait a long time. :dream:


watch who was marking the goalscorer at 0:50

watch who was marking the goal scorer at 0:44

Now pls provide objective evidence he was our best defender against southafrica as you claim
Pls none of your usual waffle.
Just point to the timestamped moments to evidence your claim


Bros,

Actually, if you noted the moment in the video it isn't about missing a header but about being poorly positioned. Those are in fact two different things. In any case, I hope you realize that an enduring characteristic is established with a pattern and not a one time occurrence. Are we to conclude, for instance, that the South African playing rounding up Ekong in the 1:08 minute of the same video indicates that Ekong is lead-footed? I will think not except if there are other examples to establish a pattern. Of course, with your analysis one gets the idea that one such incidence is enough to reach a conclusion. However, I am certain that experienced analysis require more than one occurrence to reach such a conclusion. In essence, what is needed from you are multiple examples of Awaziem missing headers (not poor positioning, btw). Also, your claim that Ekong was better in that game needs video examples from that game as well. Please provide those since they may serve as objective valuations, if only they are interpreted accurately.

Since your recollection is averse to recollection of others in CE and further you have called for objective video evidence, the onus is on you to provide such evidence for evaluation. Therefore, please provide a full match video for us to objectively evaluate performances of the players as you called for. Surely, a few seconds of goal scoring activities do not define a player's performance in a full match, even you should be aware of that difference.

Oya, over to you Smartbrother.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:06 pm 
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Honestly, with Balogun's frequent injuries I won't be surprised if Awazeim ends up pairing Ekong in defense at the world cup.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:33 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
In essence, what is needed from you are multiple examples of Awaziem missing headers (not poor positioning, btw).


this is where you are wrong.
Good positiioning is critical to having good aerial ability.
Poor positioning is part and parcel of poor aerial ability

having good aerial ability does not mean outjumping the striker all the time

it has more to do with judging the flight of the ball accurately
and having awareness of the spaces into which opposition strikers might run

A defender with better aerial ability would have at least, challenged those crosses and done enough to put off the goalscorer
in order to have stopped those goals (i gave two examples) , Awaziem did not have to win those aerial duels outright!
He simply needed to have been better positioned to challenge the strikers effectively...which he wasn't

these are the little things you do not notice good defenders doing all the time.
We tend to notice the flashy last ditch tackles and elegant ball playing skills
its only when you start conceding cheap goals that you realize how important these little things are

Quote:
Also, your claim that Ekong was better in that game needs video examples from that game as well..

not trying to be rude here but i think you need to read more carefully before responding.
I did not claim Ekong was better in that game.
I challenged you to justify your claim that Awaziem was the BEST defender on the pitch with evidence...
Such evidence would necessarily include a comparison with Ekong who was amongst defenders you claim he was better than.

with all due respect we have been going back and forth for two days and you have still not provided any data or said anything remotely insightful on this subject
so I will not be responding to you on this thread any further.


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