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CE Rules on Personal Insults...
Should not be allowed at all 42%  42%  [ 31 ]
Should be allowed, with modifications to current rules 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Should remain as they are - anything goes 26%  26%  [ 19 ]
Let's first define what a personal insult actually is 19%  19%  [ 14 ]
It doesn't matter to me 11%  11%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 74
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:25 pm 
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sinequanon wrote:
smartbrother wrote:
I appreciate its hard to define what constitutes personal insults
But the truth is we all recognise it when we see it
The problem is people do not call it out when it does not involve them

Oloye for example I can tell you feel strongly about this
But I've never seen you condemn zee who hurls more unprovoked personal insults here than any other forumer
We can't be Selective in our condemnation of this sort of behaviour if we're serious about stamping it out


OK, then. Please answer..

Have you insulted Oloye? Have you "hurled" an insult at Oloye?

Have you insulted zee? Have you "hurled" an insult at zee?

Answer to all those questions is probably yes
Usually in response to perceived unprovoked insults directed at me
What is your point?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:29 pm 
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smartbrother wrote:
sinequanon wrote:
smartbrother wrote:
I appreciate its hard to define what constitutes personal insults
But the truth is we all recognise it when we see it
The problem is people do not call it out when it does not involve them

Oloye for example I can tell you feel strongly about this
But I've never seen you condemn zee who hurls more unprovoked personal insults here than any other forumer
We can't be Selective in our condemnation of this sort of behaviour if we're serious about stamping it out


OK, then. Please answer..

Have you insulted Oloye? Have you "hurled" an insult at Oloye?

Have you insulted zee? Have you "hurled" an insult at zee?

Answer to all those questions is probably yes
Usually in response to perceived unprovoked insults directed at me
What is your point?


I meant, is the highlighted bit in your post an insult to oloye? zee?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:42 pm 
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sinequanon wrote:
smartbrother wrote:
sinequanon wrote:
smartbrother wrote:
I appreciate its hard to define what constitutes personal insults
But the truth is we all recognise it when we see it
The problem is people do not call it out when it does not involve them

Oloye for example I can tell you feel strongly about this
But I've never seen you condemn zee who hurls more unprovoked personal insults here than any other forumer
We can't be Selective in our condemnation of this sort of behaviour if we're serious about stamping it out


OK, then. Please answer..

Have you insulted Oloye? Have you "hurled" an insult at Oloye?

Have you insulted zee? Have you "hurled" an insult at zee?

Answer to all those questions is probably yes
Usually in response to perceived unprovoked insults directed at me
What is your point?


I meant, is the highlighted bit in your post an insult to oloye? zee?

Hmm...no I don't think it is an insult to either person
Certainly wasn't meant that way ..but I see where you are coming from
The point I'm trying to make is we are having trouble defining the line between "acceptable" and unacceptable personal insults.
But if condemnation of the clear cut cases (of which I believe there are many) was universal, it would not be so hard to define a line we can all agree on


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:07 pm 
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smartbrother wrote:
sinequanon wrote:
smartbrother wrote:
sinequanon wrote:
smartbrother wrote:
I appreciate its hard to define what constitutes personal insults
But the truth is we all recognise it when we see it
The problem is people do not call it out when it does not involve them

Oloye for example I can tell you feel strongly about this
But I've never seen you condemn zee who hurls more unprovoked personal insults here than any other forumer
We can't be Selective in our condemnation of this sort of behaviour if we're serious about stamping it out


OK, then. Please answer..

Have you insulted Oloye? Have you "hurled" an insult at Oloye?

Have you insulted zee? Have you "hurled" an insult at zee?

Answer to all those questions is probably yes
Usually in response to perceived unprovoked insults directed at me
What is your point?


I meant, is the highlighted bit in your post an insult to oloye? zee?

Hmm...no I don't think it is an insult to either person
Certainly wasn't meant that way ..but I see where you are coming from
The point I'm trying to make is we are having trouble defining the line between "acceptable" and unacceptable personal insults.
But if condemnation of the clear cut cases (of which I believe there are many) was universal, it would not be so hard to define a line we can all agree on


I have an idea of where I would draw the line between legitimate criticism and gratuitous insult, but I highly doubt that everybody would see it the same way. A line would prove to be a moderator's nightmare, especially as things tend to escalate -- "I was responding to what so-and-so said earlier. Why don't you moderate that? Blah, blah, blah.."

Complaints may have led to the starting of this thread, but trying to moderate a line between criticism and insult will cause even more complaints. The only practical change (if change is to happen) would be to sling the baby out with the bath water, legitimate criticism and all.

Earlier in this thread, I asked one poster a question. It wasn't even an opinion, like your statement highlighted above. It was a question. He took that as an insult. So, you will never get rid of the complaints unless you completely sterilize the forum.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:49 pm 
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sinequanon wrote:
smartbrother wrote:
sinequanon wrote:
smartbrother wrote:
sinequanon wrote:
smartbrother wrote:
I appreciate its hard to define what constitutes personal insults
But the truth is we all recognise it when we see it
The problem is people do not call it out when it does not involve them

Oloye for example I can tell you feel strongly about this
But I've never seen you condemn zee who hurls more unprovoked personal insults here than any other forumer
We can't be Selective in our condemnation of this sort of behaviour if we're serious about stamping it out


OK, then. Please answer..

Have you insulted Oloye? Have you "hurled" an insult at Oloye?

Have you insulted zee? Have you "hurled" an insult at zee?

Answer to all those questions is probably yes
Usually in response to perceived unprovoked insults directed at me
What is your point?


I meant, is the highlighted bit in your post an insult to oloye? zee?

Hmm...no I don't think it is an insult to either person
Certainly wasn't meant that way ..but I see where you are coming from
The point I'm trying to make is we are having trouble defining the line between "acceptable" and unacceptable personal insults.
But if condemnation of the clear cut cases (of which I believe there are many) was universal, it would not be so hard to define a line we can all agree on


I have an idea of where I would draw the line between legitimate criticism and gratuitous insult, but I highly doubt that everybody would see it the same way. A line would prove to be a moderator's nightmare, especially as things tend to escalate -- "I was responding to what so-and-so said earlier. Why don't you moderate that? Blah, blah, blah.."

Complaints may have led to the starting of this thread, but trying to moderate a line between criticism and insult will cause even more complaints. The only practical change (if change is to happen) would be to sling the baby out with the bath water, legitimate criticism and all.

Earlier in this thread, I asked one poster a question. It wasn't even an opinion, like your statement highlighted above. It was a question. He took that as an insult. So, you will never get rid of the complaints unless you completely sterilize the forum.


I think you will find that the said former did not consider your question an insult. He just felt you were going off topic and advised you accordingly.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:45 am 
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Most of the folks that throw personal insults on this forum are just Internet warriors, majority if not all of them CAN NOT and WILL NOT spew such views in real life when their opponent is face to face with them. Let the forum stay as it is, those throwing personal insult, more grease to your elbow.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:49 am 
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sinequanon wrote:
OK, then. Please answer..

Have you insulted Oloye? Have you "hurled" an insult at Oloye?

Have you insulted zee? Have you "hurled" an insult at zee?

(Notice how so many people talk about insults in an unmeasured way as being "hurled").

I have lobbed insults, perhaps even tossed them - but never hurled them. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:07 am 
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airwolex wrote:
Most guys here are okay. Sure some lose it, but it's not a pattern. Certainly not as bad as Nairaland or Ghanaweb.

However there are a few forumers that are just over the top. It's impossible for them to disagree with you without resorting to name-calling. I know them and try not to engage them in any form of discussion. It's not that I can't give it back, just that I try to avoid too much negativity when I can. When you think about it, it's ridiculous spending hours exchanging insults with a stranger online. You never know, the guy could be a complete nut-job and there you are wasting your time. I was shocked to hear that people threaten each other and abuse with private messages as well. I have had a few people that have disagreed with me pm me, but they were never disrespectful.

:thumb:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:09 am 
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Okocha10 wrote:
Most of the folks that throw personal insults on this forum are just Internet warriors, majority if not all of them CAN NOT and WILL NOT spew such views in real life when their opponent is face to face with them. Let the forum stay as it is, those throwing personal insult, more grease to your elbow.

Why encourage violent posting?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:23 am 
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realtrouble wrote:
Damunk,

A thread without the usual insults and name calling, can be good source of reference material e.g. the thread " Nigeria may never developed! (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=50827) was such an interesting discussion on Nigeria future without unneccessary insults.

KPOM


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:35 am 
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Moved to Eagles Nest for a while to catch the heavier traffic in here.
There are some that rarely visit Rant n Rave (and vice versa)

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:22 am 
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Damunk wrote:
Moved to Eagles Nest for a while to catch the heavier traffic in here.
There are some that rarely visit Rant n Rave (and vice versa)


Damunkey, you are abusing your murderaror powers. If i abuse you now you will say i am insulting you. What is the point of the poll? Na by force?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:25 pm 
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The YeyeMan wrote:
sinequanon wrote:
OK, then. Please answer..

Have you insulted Oloye? Have you "hurled" an insult at Oloye?

Have you insulted zee? Have you "hurled" an insult at zee?

(Notice how so many people talk about insults in an unmeasured way as being "hurled").

I have lobbed insults, perhaps even tossed them - but never hurled them. :D


Careless!

You want them to be just landing anyhow?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Who decides if an insult is personal? So public insults are allowed?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Cristao II wrote:
Who decides if an insult is personal? So public insults are allowed?
Abuse of public figures is allowed. Have you never joined in the fun?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:04 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Who decides if an insult is personal? So public insults are allowed?
Abuse of public figures is allowed. Have you never joined in the fun?


What if a member of CE is a public figure ... :P

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:13 pm 
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I did not need to participate to the poll but I like the thread. I tend to see those who insult as intelligently inferior. When you either can't accept that you are wrong or you don't have arguments to support you point.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Cristao II wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Who decides if an insult is personal? So public insults are allowed?
Abuse of public figures is allowed. Have you never joined in the fun?


What if a member of CE is a public figure ... :P
I think the late Ofilis became a public figure and CE members addressed him as they deemed fit.

Also John Ogu (the current SE midfielder) visits this board from time to time under his own name and even contributes to debates.

He has also been subject to sharp criticisms but I don't think he has been 'abused' to his face - but knowing this place, that could change very quickly.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:20 pm 
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joplass wrote:
I did not need to participate to the poll but I like the thread. I tend to see those who insult as intelligently inferior. When you either can't accept that you are wrong or you don't have arguments to support you point.
Joplass, you would be helping the forum by voting in the poll because we need to have an objective basis on which we can make a decision.
It only takes a few seconds, is anonymous and you even have an option to say the matter is of no importance to you if that is how you feel. :idea:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:49 pm 
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I believe people can reasonably argue here and we can learn a lot from the information provided in such debates. However, those who rain insults on other forumers, instead of debating the issues, should have no place here. They often derail threads and what exactly do we learn from such behavior?

Someone cited the case of Ghana Forum which is quite accurate. It is full of insults and discourages informed debate. For those of you who have been on CE when CE transitioned from the previous forum, you will remember that the old forum had degenerated to insults without any moderation. The result? The forum died as many left. Why stay here to consume insults instead of enjoying a well-informed debate of issues?

The fact is that moderators have a huge responsibility but they must live up to it or simply contribute to the death of this forum because of inaction. Suspensions are very important as a lesson to those who refuse to conform. Bottom line is that moderators must be ready to lay down that hammer.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:35 pm 
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He wants to lobby for more votes for his position before he makes it official... :D

1naija wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Moved to Eagles Nest for a while to catch the heavier traffic in here.
There are some that rarely visit Rant n Rave (and vice versa)


Damunkey, you are abusing your murderaror powers. If i abuse you now you will say i am insulting you. What is the point of the poll? Na by force?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:41 pm 
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Damunk,

Thanks for this poll and thread. The current result of the poll is not surprising to me. I feel there is a certain determination from some folks to bring CE down and so far over the years, the quality of discourse here has largely deteriorated. I think we should be more determined to rid CE of those folks that want to bring it down otherwise CE will sink into the history of ignominy.

As Oloye rightly stated, there are some who easily display their poor upbringing, poor education and parental training together with a clear lack of desire to progress/improve and you can easily identify them by their quick recourse to abuse. What I find weird and peculiar is this; how can you insult or throw abuse at someone that you have never met before, you don't know his/her age or whether his/her kids are even older than you? It really is despicable. My approach has been not to launch insult first but to respond overwhelmingly when provoked and if I must throw insults at parents, then so be it.

Over the years, some like me have picked up great insight from outstanding and truly unforgetable analysis. Who will not cherish old SE tales from Oloye or who has not gained knowledge from stories about SE going back to late 60s and early 70s for example? Certainly I have and my nigerian football experience took off from the 1976 AFCON in Ethiopia. Ohsee's tales about Biafra is a joy and who will turn down E11's analysis? Heavyd's book on the history of nigerian football remains a joy. So why should someone who was born in 80s, 90s be able to throw insults around to much older folk and bring meaningful threads to ruin? Why should good folks stand by and watch rotten folks destroy a good thing?

My suggestion is that we adopt a zero tolerance approach. At the first insult thrown by a respondent on CE, the mods should be contacted and a warning issued promptly. At the 3rd warning, the "insulter" should be struck off! Over time, the irritants will be weeded out or forced to conform to decent behaviour and the sanctity of CE will be maintained.

My 2 kobo.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:12 pm 
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Damunk wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Damunk wrote:
Cristao II wrote:
Who decides if an insult is personal? So public insults are allowed?
Abuse of public figures is allowed. Have you never joined in the fun?


What if a member of CE is a public figure ... :P
I think the late Ofilis became a public figure and CE members addressed him as they deemed fit.

Also John Ogu (the current SE midfielder) visits this board from time to time under his own name and even contributes to debates.

He has also been subject to sharp criticisms but I don't think he has been 'abused' to his face - but knowing this place, that could change very quickly.


forgotten that guy - damn .. rip.. :( :( :(

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