West Ham Don't Want More African Players

[danfo driver]

Thread like these just make me shake my head when I see the amount of Nigerians who want someone like Oliseh to fail. You guys dont realize how high the fence is. African players have it tough, just imagine how tough African managers have it.

By the way, everytime I watch an EPL game, I always make this same sentence: "If this guy wasnt English, he definitely wouldnt make it this far." You watch games, and you can simply tell that many players who play in the EPL are Div 3 level players.

Look at Joe EFFIN Hart!!! Go and ask anyone who watches serie A. Joe Hart was voted the worst goalkeeper when he played at Torino. He was shockingly bad! And this is England's number 1 He was so bad that Torino fans wanted him out before the season was over. Came back to ENgland and of course, walked into west ham! He is England's number one, after all. And we all saw how horrible he was....

[aruako1]

Thread like these just make me shake my head when I see the amount of Nigerians who want someone like Oliseh to fail. You guys dont realize how high the fence is. African players have it tough, just imagine how tough African managers have it.

By the way, everytime I watch an EPL game, I always make this same sentence: "If this guy wasnt English, he definitely wouldnt make it this far." You watch games, and you can simply tell that many players who play in the EPL are Div 3 level players.

Look at Joe EFFIN Hart!!! Go and ask anyone who watches serie A. Joe Hart was voted the worst goalkeeper when he played at Torino. He was shockingly bad! And this is England's number 1 He was so bad that Torino fans wanted him out before the season was over. Came back to ENgland and of course, walked into west ham! He is England's number one, after all. And we all saw how horrible he was....

Pointing out Oliseh's mistakes as SE coach is not the same thing as wanting him to fail. He made some mistakes in the SE but I am very impressed with him in the Netherlands. I get your point though - his achievements are even more impressive given the hurdles he has faced.

[aykwes8]

Stay home and build your countries don’t call people racist for not wanting you in theirs

[aruako1]

Stay home and build your countries don’t call people racist for not wanting you in theirs

Yes because those who build their own countries don't move to other places. What of those who face racism in their own countries?

[airwolex]

Stay home and build your countries don’t call people racist for not wanting you in theirs

Yes because those who build their own countries don't move to other places. What of those who face racism in their own countries?

Thank you jare. 1 in 3 people all over the world live in foreign countries. And this includes Americans and Brits. I have also noticed that most of the CE cybers calling for our players to stay at home and help their local leagues grow are abroad.

[Coach]

^And couldn't be paid to go back the jungle. The question here needn't be that of Nigerian Premier Leagues, rather African investment in such sporting franchise. The EPL is one of the biggest brands in the continent, how many club owners or major shareholders are black like the disciples, know when to use their IQ and when to use the rifle... Granted the suffix to the comma is irrelevant, but what a truly masterful verse by Common. Digression perhaps.

[danfo driver]

Stay home and build your countries don’t call people racist for not wanting you in theirs

WHen I read stuff like this, I immediately realize how ill advised it was for our leaders to eradicate history from the curriculum. Did you tell the Europeans to stay home and build their countries when they came to us in the 1500s? Where we the first to go to their home or did they come to us to ravage us, uninvited?? Where were you when Ibn Battuta came to Mali in the 12th century?? Did Malians go to Arabia first?

Please, keep your mouth shut and dont speak again until I ask you to. Africans like you enrage me! You like to give advice like you know what you are talking about. Dont let me descend on you this afternoon.

[danfo driver]

Thread like these just make me shake my head when I see the amount of Nigerians who want someone like Oliseh to fail. You guys dont realize how high the fence is. African players have it tough, just imagine how tough African managers have it.

By the way, everytime I watch an EPL game, I always make this same sentence: "If this guy wasnt English, he definitely wouldnt make it this far." You watch games, and you can simply tell that many players who play in the EPL are Div 3 level players.

Look at Joe EFFIN Hart!!! Go and ask anyone who watches serie A. Joe Hart was voted the worst goalkeeper when he played at Torino. He was shockingly bad! And this is England's number 1 He was so bad that Torino fans wanted him out before the season was over. Came back to ENgland and of course, walked into west ham! He is England's number one, after all. And we all saw how horrible he was....

Pointing out Oliseh's mistakes as SE coach is not the same thing as wanting him to fail. He made some mistakes in the SE but I am very impressed with him in the Netherlands. I get your point though - his achievements are even more impressive given the hurdles he has faced.

It is clear that you have not read the Oliseh thread.

[Odas]

He has been sacked.

Sacked for revealing club policy.

Next time he will learn to keep his mouth shut!

... not only to keep his mouth shut; but unfortunately, to very well hide his/the club's actions and intentions

[Odas]

Stay home and build your countries don’t call people racist for not wanting you in theirs

Hmm, what you said is easily said than done. It will take an HONEST group of people, whose devotion is to build a nation (Nigeria) a long way to accomplish such. Therefore, building Nigeria is a different issue entirely. For now, it doesn't make what the racists are doing correct.

[aruako1]

Thread like these just make me shake my head when I see the amount of Nigerians who want someone like Oliseh to fail. You guys dont realize how high the fence is. African players have it tough, just imagine how tough African managers have it.

By the way, everytime I watch an EPL game, I always make this same sentence: "If this guy wasnt English, he definitely wouldnt make it this far." You watch games, and you can simply tell that many players who play in the EPL are Div 3 level players.

Look at Joe EFFIN Hart!!! Go and ask anyone who watches serie A. Joe Hart was voted the worst goalkeeper when he played at Torino. He was shockingly bad! And this is England's number 1 He was so bad that Torino fans wanted him out before the season was over. Came back to ENgland and of course, walked into west ham! He is England's number one, after all. And we all saw how horrible he was....

Pointing out Oliseh's mistakes as SE coach is not the same thing as wanting him to fail. He made some mistakes in the SE but I am very impressed with him in the Netherlands. I get your point though - his achievements are even more impressive given the hurdles he has faced.

It is clear that you have not read the Oliseh thread.

I was involved in the thread. The vast majority wished him well even though they were not impressed with him as SE manager.

[Eaglezbeak]

Stay home and build your countries don’t call people racist for not wanting you in theirs

Ok but you may have to learn from other countries before you build a place with limited support and personnel and you still have a right call out anyone for their racism if it’s their country or not especially if they’ve been heard saying something like that!

[Waffiman]

The guy is a certified angel*!

However I don't think this is a view shared by most people in football. Many people (the likes of Wenger, Bobby Robson etc) have actually said the opposite - that African players display more good characteristics of discipline, work rate and the willingness to learn and adapt. There will always be one or two who may cause problems but it is not a particular African trait.

I dont agree, i think it is more widespread than we think, this people are connected to each other including scouting network to head of recruitment, they find jobs for each other. The are closely knit......

Spot on. In my experience, Wenger is an exception, far removed from the norm. I have explained how this all operates from my experiences with Iwobi's development. Liam Brady brought in some White English youth team coaches he use to know as a player. They were foul racist mofos.

But what struck me was the tribalism of it all. The way they all closed ranks and ganged up was from Coaching staff to the stands and social media. The way they started rubbishing the black players especially those they saw as not English is something that will stay with me forever. Even the tool who writes about Arsenal youth was part of them. Prominent Arsenal Bloggers, even joined in saying Iwobi was not good enough. I will never forgive those racists mofos.

When Wenger had enough it was just wonderful to see how he stepped in and took over the Youth team. First Brady was informed he will not be continuing in his role and he stepped down. Then Wenger ordered Iwobi be returned to the most senior youth team as a starter, then ordered he was made the striker, before making him the team Captain.

What was really telling was the Iwobi who was not good enough to be in these racist coaches Youth team, was the only youth team player being invited to train with the first team by the Manager. I remember how this upset the whole lot of them. I still insist, Wenger's actions in the youth team and how he eventually purged the place by firing the whole lot of them was the beginning of Wenger out.

[airwolex]

The guy is a certified angel*!

However I don't think this is a view shared by most people in football. Many people (the likes of Wenger, Bobby Robson etc) have actually said the opposite - that African players display more good characteristics of discipline, work rate and the willingness to learn and adapt. There will always be one or two who may cause problems but it is not a particular African trait.

I dont agree, i think it is more widespread than we think, this people are connected to each other including scouting network to head of recruitment, they find jobs for each other. The are closely knit......

Spot on. In my experience, Wenger is an exception, far removed from the norm. I have explained how this all operates from my experiences with Iwobi's development. Liam Brady brought in some White English youth team coaches he use to know as a player. They were foul racist mofos.

But what struck me was the tribalism of it all. The way they all closed ranks and ganged up was from Coaching staff to the stands and social media. The way they started rubbishing the black players especially those they saw as not English is something that will stay with me forever. Even the tool who writes about Arsenal youth was part of them. Prominent Arsenal Bloggers, even joined in saying Iwobi was not good enough. I will never forgive those racists mofos.

When Wenger had enough it was just wonderful to see how he stepped in and took over the Youth team. First Brady was informed he will not be continuing in his role and he stepped down. Then Wenger ordered Iwobi be returned to the most senior youth team as a starter, then ordered he was made the striker, before making him the team Captain.

What was really telling was the Iwobi who was not good enough to be in these racist coaches Youth team, was the only youth team player being invited to train with the first team by the Manager. I remember how this upset the whole lot of them. I still insist, Wenger's actions in the youth team and how he eventually purged the place by firing the whole lot of them was the beginning of Wenger out.

Wow! And this is in London and Arsenal!!

[Enugu II]

The guy is a certified angel*!

However I don't think this is a view shared by most people in football. Many people (the likes of Wenger, Bobby Robson etc) have actually said the opposite - that African players display more good characteristics of discipline, work rate and the willingness to learn and adapt. There will always be one or two who may cause problems but it is not a particular African trait.

I dont agree, i think it is more widespread than we think, this people are connected to each other including scouting network to head of recruitment, they find jobs for each other. The are closely knit......

Spot on. In my experience, Wenger is an exception, far removed from the norm. I have explained how this all operates from my experiences with Iwobi's development. Liam Brady brought in some White English youth team coaches he use to know as a player. They were foul racist mofos.

But what struck me was the tribalism of it all. The way they all closed ranks and ganged up was from Coaching staff to the stands and social media. The way they started rubbishing the black players especially those they saw as not English is something that will stay with me forever. Even the tool who writes about Arsenal youth was part of them. Prominent Arsenal Bloggers, even joined in saying Iwobi was not good enough. I will never forgive those racists mofos.

When Wenger had enough it was just wonderful to see how he stepped in and took over the Youth team. First Brady was informed he will not be continuing in his role and he stepped down. Then Wenger ordered Iwobi be returned to the most senior youth team as a starter, then ordered he was made the striker, before making him the team Captain.

What was really telling was the Iwobi who was not good enough to be in these racist coaches Youth team, was the only youth team player being invited to train with the first team by the Manager. I remember how this upset the whole lot of them. I still insist, Wenger's actions in the youth team and how he eventually purged the place by firing the whole lot of them was the beginning of Wenger out.

Waffi,

While I cannot verify the specifics of your report, one thing I can affirm is that it captures how these decisions are made all over the globe. It is delusional when people (particularly on CE) assume that player selection is objective (whatever that really means) and fully scientific and unquestionable, especially when such decision is made in Europe. It is one of the biggest fallacies in discussions held here on CE.

The fact is that these decisions are rarely fully scientific. Football scouting and decision making are still made by human beings with their subjectivities and vagaries. This explains why coaches viewing or supervising the same pool of players make very different decisions on selection and conception of appropriate tactics. In spite of the hype about science and pseudo science appropriated by football, it largely remains an art and affected hugely by human subjectivity STILL.

[danfo driver]

Dude, why do you always need to use every topic to praise Wenger? I dont get it? Dont you get tired?

The guy is a certified angel*!

However I don't think this is a view shared by most people in football. Many people (the likes of Wenger, Bobby Robson etc) have actually said the opposite - that African players display more good characteristics of discipline, work rate and the willingness to learn and adapt. There will always be one or two who may cause problems but it is not a particular African trait.

I dont agree, i think it is more widespread than we think, this people are connected to each other including scouting network to head of recruitment, they find jobs for each other. The are closely knit......

Spot on. In my experience, Wenger is an exception, far removed from the norm. I have explained how this all operates from my experiences with Iwobi's development. Liam Brady brought in some White English youth team coaches he use to know as a player. They were foul racist mofos.

But what struck me was the tribalism of it all. The way they all closed ranks and ganged up was from Coaching staff to the stands and social media. The way they started rubbishing the black players especially those they saw as not English is something that will stay with me forever. Even the tool who writes about Arsenal youth was part of them. Prominent Arsenal Bloggers, even joined in saying Iwobi was not good enough. I will never forgive those racists mofos.

When Wenger had enough it was just wonderful to see how he stepped in and took over the Youth team. First Brady was informed he will not be continuing in his role and he stepped down. Then Wenger ordered Iwobi be returned to the most senior youth team as a starter, then ordered he was made the striker, before making him the team Captain.

What was really telling was the Iwobi who was not good enough to be in these racist coaches Youth team, was the only youth team player being invited to train with the first team by the Manager. I remember how this upset the whole lot of them. I still insist, Wenger's actions in the youth team and how he eventually purged the place by firing the whole lot of them was the beginning of Wenger out.

[Waffiman]

The guy is a certified angel*!

However I don't think this is a view shared by most people in football. Many people (the likes of Wenger, Bobby Robson etc) have actually said the opposite - that African players display more good characteristics of discipline, work rate and the willingness to learn and adapt. There will always be one or two who may cause problems but it is not a particular African trait.

I dont agree, i think it is more widespread than we think, this people are connected to each other including scouting network to head of recruitment, they find jobs for each other. The are closely knit......

Spot on. In my experience, Wenger is an exception, far removed from the norm. I have explained how this all operates from my experiences with Iwobi's development. Liam Brady brought in some White English youth team coaches he use to know as a player. They were foul racist mofos.

But what struck me was the tribalism of it all. The way they all closed ranks and ganged up was from Coaching staff to the stands and social media. The way they started rubbishing the black players especially those they saw as not English is something that will stay with me forever. Even the tool who writes about Arsenal youth was part of them. Prominent Arsenal Bloggers, even joined in saying Iwobi was not good enough. I will never forgive those racists mofos.

When Wenger had enough it was just wonderful to see how he stepped in and took over the Youth team. First Brady was informed he will not be continuing in his role and he stepped down. Then Wenger ordered Iwobi be returned to the most senior youth team as a starter, then ordered he was made the striker, before making him the team Captain.

What was really telling was the Iwobi who was not good enough to be in these racist coaches Youth team, was the only youth team player being invited to train with the first team by the Manager. I remember how this upset the whole lot of them. I still insist, Wenger's actions in the youth team and how he eventually purged the place by firing the whole lot of them was the beginning of Wenger out.

Waffi,

While I cannot verify the specifics of your report, one thing I can affirm is that it captures how these decisions are made all over the globe. It is delusional when people (particularly on CE) assume that player selection is objective (whatever that really means) and fully scientific and unquestionable, especially when such decision is made in Europe. It is one of the biggest fallacies in discussions held here on CE.

The fact is that these decisions are rarely fully scientific. Football scouting and decision making are still made by human beings with their subjectivities and vagaries. This explains why coaches viewing or supervising the same pool of players make very different decisions on selection and conception of appropriate tactics. In spite of the hype about science and pseudo science appropriated by football, it largely remains an art and affected hugely by human subjectivity STILL.

Spot on. Sadly youth football is especially plagued by these problems. Arsenal have introduced a lot of scientific analysis but it helps, it does not solve the problem.

Do you remember an interview when Alex was said he trusted Wenger. It is down to experience.

I say here publicly and I know I will upset someone for saying this. He went to Wenger to complain a few times. Eventually even threatening to take his boy away. Wenger kept on reassuring him and asked he be patient. In the end, it worked out.

[Bell]

Stay home and build your countries don’t call people racist for not wanting you in theirs

Hmm, what you said is easily said than done. It will take an HONEST group of people, whose devotion is to build a nation (Nigeria) a long way to accomplish such. Therefore, building Nigeria is a different issue entirely. For now, it doesn't make what the racists are doing correct.

NOT BECAUSE I'VE SAID IT HERE MYSELF, BUT...


...I have to agree and strongly with aykwes8 here: GO HOME AND BUILD YOUR COUNTRY AND NO ONE WOULD TREAT YOU LIKE THE LESSER.

Some of those in disagreement want to recall that these Europeans also went out centuries ago to places like Africa to exploit the wealth there. What this narration ignores is that the Europeans went out as conquerors and essentially seized the land. They weren't running from a place of need to a place of plenty and rather than being subjugated to racism, the indigenes treated them as lords.

And I don't buy the argument that the smaller picture of building a soccer league (part of the bigger demand of building a nation) is easier said than done and would take time. This is nothing more than kicking the can down the road, something Nigerians have become very good at. Enough of the excuse making. If you don't start now, when are you going to? I've at various times submitted plans for a private domestic league or a regional version: why not start with that?

It's far easier for racists to exhibit their hateful ware if they conclude that you depend on them than if they perceive your self-reliance. This doesn't excuse racism but there are easier ways to overcome it than to cry to court made of the same people. And is it not better to have a choice of your own land as well as a foreign?

It is not hypocritical for those living outside Nigeria to promote this "build yours" move. They are not asking these players not to seek overseas employment and they certainly are not placing the burden of building local leagues on them. They are merely asking the powers that be to bring this about so future, if not current, players may be afforded choices.
Bell