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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:49 pm 
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Odas wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Odas wrote:
imehjunior wrote:
Just listening to him on Brilla and here are a few of my take away.
1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.
3. Think he has been advised and didn't say anything bad and thanked them for giving him the opportunity to serve.
4. He is very optimistic over the SE chances in Russia.

As written, assuming you heard the above correctly, I will simply say: Wow! :shock: :shock: :shock: This is why many of us in this Site should have waited to hear from Oliseh before jumping to the: 'I told you so' mode or position.

Thus the club's management is; somehow, responsible for the club's latest losses.

Did you miss this part? When folks said his statements were wrong, you guys didn't want to listen, and were looking for people to pick fights with. If he was right in making those statements on Twitter, why has he backed away from them now?

Hopefully someday, we can debate issues on the CE without being "haters" or "lovers", "agents", etc.

Chief Ogbunigwe,

My point(s) of reference is different from those of yours - Sir. I was referring to points one and two as shown below:

1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.


My bro, ##s 1 and 2 can be addressed legally, and they have no bearing on the following facts:
1. Oliseh has a history of not getting along with people, and it is fair to bring that up.
2. There was no reason to justify his "hot-head" reputation by posting what he did on social media.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Odas wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Odas wrote:
imehjunior wrote:
Just listening to him on Brilla and here are a few of my take away.
1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.
3. Think he has been advised and didn't say anything bad and thanked them for giving him the opportunity to serve.
4. He is very optimistic over the SE chances in Russia.

As written, assuming you heard the above correctly, I will simply say: Wow! :shock: :shock: :shock: This is why many of us in this Site should have waited to hear from Oliseh before jumping to the: 'I told you so' mode or position.

Thus the club's management is; somehow, responsible for the club's latest losses.

Did you miss this part? When folks said his statements were wrong, you guys didn't want to listen, and were looking for people to pick fights with. If he was right in making those statements on Twitter, why has he backed away from them now?

Hopefully someday, we can debate issues on the CE without being "haters" or "lovers", "agents", etc.

Chief Ogbunigwe,

My point(s) of reference is different from those of yours - Sir. I was referring to points one and two as shown below:

1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.


My bro, ##s 1 and 2 can be addressed legally, and they have no bearing on the following facts:
1. Oliseh has a history of not getting along with people, and it is fair to bring that up.
2. There was no reason to justify his "hot-head" reputation by posting what he did on social media.


Exactly he shouldn’t even do the radio interview, get your Lawyer and file a case with the arbitration of Dutch footie and present your case. You can ‘clear your name’ after you show them proper in court and get your entitlements owed to you. Sometimes the smartest people do the dumbest things.

Ps: CE is not a court of law and we are free to have opinions on who we think is right, doesn’t mean we hate someone. And when new info comes out we are also free to change our opinions.

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Last edited by maceo4 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:57 pm 
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heavyd wrote:
this has really saddened me greatly...
I hope he ends up being vindicated....


:thumbs: :agree:

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For many years upon this spot
You heard the sound of a merry bell
Those who were rash and those who were not
Lost and made a spot of cash
He who gave the game away
May he Brynn in hell and rue the day

Bryne V. Deane [1937]


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Odas wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Odas wrote:
imehjunior wrote:
Just listening to him on Brilla and here are a few of my take away.
1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.
3. Think he has been advised and didn't say anything bad and thanked them for giving him the opportunity to serve.
4. He is very optimistic over the SE chances in Russia.

As written, assuming you heard the above correctly, I will simply say: Wow! :shock: :shock: :shock: This is why many of us in this Site should have waited to hear from Oliseh before jumping to the: 'I told you so' mode or position.

Thus the club's management is; somehow, responsible for the club's latest losses.

Did you miss this part? When folks said his statements were wrong, you guys didn't want to listen, and were looking for people to pick fights with. If he was right in making those statements on Twitter, why has he backed away from them now?

Hopefully someday, we can debate issues on the CE without being "haters" or "lovers", "agents", etc.

Chief Ogbunigwe,

My point(s) of reference is different from those of yours - Sir. I was referring to points one and two as shown below:

1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.


My bro, ##s 1 and 2 can be addressed legally, and they have no bearing on the following facts:
1. Oliseh has a history of not getting along with people, and it is fair to bring that up.
2. There was no reason to justify his "hot-head" reputation by posting what he did on social media.



How does this sound:

1. Balotelli has a history of disruptive conduct so it is fair to bring it up vis a vis his claim of being racially abused.

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:59 pm 
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pajimoh wrote:
Ebyboy wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Ebyboy wrote:
I am super sad about all this. Very unwelcome and unfortunate.
I am partial to Oliseh. With him, I am partisan and biased. With
the information available so far, even with his well known and
oft repeated antecedents here, I do not see much to blame Oliseh
for.

Whatever might be the case, he has distinguished himself. There
will be other opportunities.

Godspeed and even greater success to him in the future.


Let's be honest, unless we are suing a very mediocre yardstick, Oliseh has not DISTINGUISHED himself. He's had 2 gigs and both end up flat. He quit the Super Eagles when he was tasked with taking them to the AFCON.
He's now been let go from his current job when the season is at a crucial stage. Not getting your team over the line cannot easily be classed as "Distinguished".
He's done OK at best but more like flatters to deceive.


I think your 'let's be honest' is a dead giveaway.
Fortuna Sittard has racked up enough points to
earn a place in the playoffs for promotion to the
1st Division. That's probably why the owners can
dispense with Oliseh's services now that promotion
is a real and probable possibility.

Getting Fortuna from where they were to where
they are now is a remarkable achievement. There
is nothing remotely mediocre about it.


It's a good achievement for a newbie but not Distinguished or REMARKABLE. God forbid, if Oliseh was to finish his football managerial career tomorrow, would his career be described as DISTINGUISHED or REMARKABLE?

You say my "lets be honest" is a giveaway but your "I am partial to Oliseh. With him, I am partisan and biased." is not? I'm merely stating my honest opinion without the usual partisanship of Oliseh is Nigerian and one of our own. Had he been a white or an unknown manager, I don't think you'd be using words like DISTINGUISH/REMARKABLE.

I was expecting Oliseh to win promotion for Fortuna but in football anything can happen - being placed third doesn't mean it would be so by season's end. It would have been quite an achievement had he seen them over the line


My brother, let us agree to disagree. I am just sad about the whole thing.

_________________
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For many years upon this spot
You heard the sound of a merry bell
Those who were rash and those who were not
Lost and made a spot of cash
He who gave the game away
May he Brynn in hell and rue the day

Bryne V. Deane [1937]


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:04 pm 
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txj wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Odas wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Odas wrote:
imehjunior wrote:
Just listening to him on Brilla and here are a few of my take away.
1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.
3. Think he has been advised and didn't say anything bad and thanked them for giving him the opportunity to serve.
4. He is very optimistic over the SE chances in Russia.

As written, assuming you heard the above correctly, I will simply say: Wow! :shock: :shock: :shock: This is why many of us in this Site should have waited to hear from Oliseh before jumping to the: 'I told you so' mode or position.

Thus the club's management is; somehow, responsible for the club's latest losses.

Did you miss this part? When folks said his statements were wrong, you guys didn't want to listen, and were looking for people to pick fights with. If he was right in making those statements on Twitter, why has he backed away from them now?

Hopefully someday, we can debate issues on the CE without being "haters" or "lovers", "agents", etc.

Chief Ogbunigwe,

My point(s) of reference is different from those of yours - Sir. I was referring to points one and two as shown below:

1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.


My bro, ##s 1 and 2 can be addressed legally, and they have no bearing on the following facts:
1. Oliseh has a history of not getting along with people, and it is fair to bring that up.
2. There was no reason to justify his "hot-head" reputation by posting what he did on social media.



How does this sound:

1. Balotelli has a history of disruptive conduct so it is fair to bring it up vis a vis his claim of being racially abused.


sounds very peculiar to TXJ

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Barren for 35 yrs no good o

New member and Titled Chief, Distant Gunners Consortium.
"This is an island surrounded by water, big water, ocean water."


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:10 pm 
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Odas wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Odas wrote:
imehjunior wrote:
Just listening to him on Brilla and here are a few of my take away.
1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.
3. Think he has been advised and didn't say anything bad and thanked them for giving him the opportunity to serve.
4. He is very optimistic over the SE chances in Russia.

As written, assuming you heard the above correctly, I will simply say: Wow! :shock: :shock: :shock: This is why many of us in this Site should have waited to hear from Oliseh before jumping to the: 'I told you so' mode or position.

Thus the club's management is; somehow, responsible for the club's latest losses.

Did you miss this part? When folks said his statements were wrong, you guys didn't want to listen, and were looking for people to pick fights with. If he was right in making those statements on Twitter, why has he backed away from them now?

Hopefully someday, we can debate issues on the CE without being "haters" or "lovers", "agents", etc.

Chief Ogbunigwe,

My point(s) of reference is different from those of yours - Sir. I was referring to points one and two as shown below:

1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.
But Chief, neither points are 'illegal' activities. Moreover, at this point its all 'dem say', just like the club's allegations are 'dem say'.

But what is not 'dem say' is the public statement - potentially libellous - that Oliseh has made without due caution.
We all immediately raised a red flag knowing he was setting himself up for a lawsuit.
One doesn't have to be a lawyer to know that.

Its never a good thing to put the car in gear before switching on the engine.
You can find yourself in deep, deep water. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:12 pm 
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txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
Thanks for the offer, including the condescending attitude, but I'm quite confident in my knowledge of research methodology and continued use of it, both in analytical work and day to day practical use.

There's a reason quantitative methods rank much higher than qualitative methods. What I have not done here is dispute the use of qualitative methods. I have simply questioned the confidence limits that can be assigned to an analysis of Oliseh's intent from mere twitter post...All the sophistry in the world cannot diminish this one bit!

It is irrational that a CE member would cite as evidence of Oliseh's failures his reaction to being racially abused. It is irrational that a CE member would cite evidence of Oliseh's failures by citing his decision to quit the SE without recognition of the clear ineptitude of the NFF. It is irrational for a CE member to cite the commotion in 2002 in the SE camp without recognition of the failures of the NFF. That is irrational thinking fueled by bias against Oliseh.

It is curious that in a post by SO alleging criminal intent on the side of the club that your sole interest is on the intent behind his use of the word foreign. Sure it is ur right to choose what to focus on, as is my right to point to the curious nature of ur choice.

I haven't defended Oliseh at any point on the substantial issue. I have merely been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until the full story unfolds.

The complete unwillingness of folks here to give him any benefit of the doubt is itself evidence of irrationality in the reaction of CE towards any issue affecting SO.


Txj

Your knowledge of the research world is questionable when you make the statement that quant research is superior to qualitative research. That is an incredible statement to make in today's world. It is similar to a claim that one culture is superior to the next. The reality is that the methods, like cultures, are just different. Each with its benefits and drawbacks. Those who seek a much more compelling work may use mixed methods.

May I ask which benefit of doubt is there to give if one was focusing on Oliseh's man management? Or his use of social media in angry response? Or his intentional motive? The issue of benefit of doubt arises if the issue is about credibility but then that is just one of multiple issues. You need to understand that your focus on his credibility does not represent every one's interest nor should it. Please divorce yourself from the belief that everyone should see the world from your perspective. People have their own interests and the agency to express them. If you understand that, it will be much easier to comprehend a different viewpoint.


You seem to have a problem comprehending issues and simply make up ur mind what my position is, and then go off on a tangent.

My statement is about quantitative methodology (NOT research); and that it ranks higher in research because it is more rigorous than qualitative methods. I am shocked that as an academic, you would even argue this...

Secondly, you claim I am defending Oliseh, when I have not thus far adjudicated on the substantive issue.

Third, you claim I am focused on credibility, when the issue I raise is about benefit of the doubt.

Benefit of the doubt is not an automatic reference to credibility. It is about common fairness, to not automatically adjudicate a situation without consideration of, at the very least, the potential that their might be another side.

None of us is privy to the full story. Yet according to many here SO is guilty as charged based on his precedence. Never mind the supposed precedence is in itself disputed; or in some cases simply nonsensical given the inputed racial motive...

Txj

I am not amazed. You certainly know more about research than those whose livelihood depend on it. Not surprised. After all, you have claimed to know more about football than coaches who have been trained. Now you know about research than those who do it for a living and edit research manuscripts. No more word on that, indeed. My advice is humility is duly recommended. It helps.

On the rest of your post, we have moved so far now from the issue as you shift from one claim to the next that this is just not worth the while. From intentionality to attempt to change it to issue of credibility. Now it is no longer credibility but about benefit of doubt on about just anything but credibility. When is the next goal post being shifted?

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The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Kai Nigerians una too like to argue in order to speak big big grammar. Oliseh hopefully would be employed before this arguement finds a logical conclusion

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:43 pm 
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txj wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Odas wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Odas wrote:
imehjunior wrote:
Just listening to him on Brilla and here are a few of my take away.
1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.
3. Think he has been advised and didn't say anything bad and thanked them for giving him the opportunity to serve.
4. He is very optimistic over the SE chances in Russia.

As written, assuming you heard the above correctly, I will simply say: Wow! :shock: :shock: :shock: This is why many of us in this Site should have waited to hear from Oliseh before jumping to the: 'I told you so' mode or position.

Thus the club's management is; somehow, responsible for the club's latest losses.

Did you miss this part? When folks said his statements were wrong, you guys didn't want to listen, and were looking for people to pick fights with. If he was right in making those statements on Twitter, why has he backed away from them now?

Hopefully someday, we can debate issues on the CE without being "haters" or "lovers", "agents", etc.

Chief Ogbunigwe,

My point(s) of reference is different from those of yours - Sir. I was referring to points one and two as shown below:

1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.


My bro, ##s 1 and 2 can be addressed legally, and they have no bearing on the following facts:
1. Oliseh has a history of not getting along with people, and it is fair to bring that up.
2. There was no reason to justify his "hot-head" reputation by posting what he did on social media.



How does this sound:

1. Balotelli has a history of disruptive conduct so it is fair to bring it up vis a vis his claim of being racially abused.


So, you're suggesting it may be justified if his hot-headed reaction to such a racial abuse is extreme?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:49 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
Thanks for the offer, including the condescending attitude, but I'm quite confident in my knowledge of research methodology and continued use of it, both in analytical work and day to day practical use.

There's a reason quantitative methods rank much higher than qualitative methods. What I have not done here is dispute the use of qualitative methods. I have simply questioned the confidence limits that can be assigned to an analysis of Oliseh's intent from mere twitter post...All the sophistry in the world cannot diminish this one bit!

It is irrational that a CE member would cite as evidence of Oliseh's failures his reaction to being racially abused. It is irrational that a CE member would cite evidence of Oliseh's failures by citing his decision to quit the SE without recognition of the clear ineptitude of the NFF. It is irrational for a CE member to cite the commotion in 2002 in the SE camp without recognition of the failures of the NFF. That is irrational thinking fueled by bias against Oliseh.

It is curious that in a post by SO alleging criminal intent on the side of the club that your sole interest is on the intent behind his use of the word foreign. Sure it is ur right to choose what to focus on, as is my right to point to the curious nature of ur choice.

I haven't defended Oliseh at any point on the substantial issue. I have merely been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until the full story unfolds.

The complete unwillingness of folks here to give him any benefit of the doubt is itself evidence of irrationality in the reaction of CE towards any issue affecting SO.


Txj

Your knowledge of the research world is questionable when you make the statement that quant research is superior to qualitative research. That is an incredible statement to make in today's world. It is similar to a claim that one culture is superior to the next. The reality is that the methods, like cultures, are just different. Each with its benefits and drawbacks. Those who seek a much more compelling work may use mixed methods.

May I ask which benefit of doubt is there to give if one was focusing on Oliseh's man management? Or his use of social media in angry response? Or his intentional motive? The issue of benefit of doubt arises if the issue is about credibility but then that is just one of multiple issues. You need to understand that your focus on his credibility does not represent every one's interest nor should it. Please divorce yourself from the belief that everyone should see the world from your perspective. People have their own interests and the agency to express them. If you understand that, it will be much easier to comprehend a different viewpoint.


You seem to have a problem comprehending issues and simply make up ur mind what my position is, and then go off on a tangent.

My statement is about quantitative methodology (NOT research); and that it ranks higher in research because it is more rigorous than qualitative methods. I am shocked that as an academic, you would even argue this...

Secondly, you claim I am defending Oliseh, when I have not thus far adjudicated on the substantive issue.

Third, you claim I am focused on credibility, when the issue I raise is about benefit of the doubt.

Benefit of the doubt is not an automatic reference to credibility. It is about common fairness, to not automatically adjudicate a situation without consideration of, at the very least, the potential that their might be another side.

None of us is privy to the full story. Yet according to many here SO is guilty as charged based on his precedence. Never mind the supposed precedence is in itself disputed; or in some cases simply nonsensical given the inputed racial motive...

Txj

I am not amazed. You certainly know more about research than those whose livelihood depend on it. Not surprised. After all, you have claimed to know more about football than coaches who have been trained. Now you know about research than those who do it for a living and edit research manuscripts. No more word on that, indeed. My advice is humility is duly recommended. It helps.

On the rest of your post, we have moved so far now from the issue as you shift from one claim to the next that this is just not worth the while. From intentionality to attempt to change it to issue of credibility. Now it is no longer credibility but about benefit of doubt on about just anything but credibility. When is the next goal post being shifted?


1. No sir, I do not know more than the experts. I never claimed to. What I do know for a fact is that quantitative research methodology is widely accepted as more rigorous than qualitative methods, and has far less bias than the latter.

2. Its a bit rich to claim we have moved so far, when you have a history of repeatedly misrepresenting my stated position and then arguing the latter. Its quite amusing. You've done this so often over the years. Just do a quick search.... :rotf:

My position remains.

I stated my surprise at ur focus on the intent of his use of the word foreign as compared to the more substantial allusion to criminality; and that you could not decipher his intent with any credible confidence limit, based on his twitter post. That is and remains my position. The issue of research methodology is a by product of this...

But at the heart of the overall issue remains whether it is right to summarily conclude about SO or whether he should be given any benefit of the doubt.

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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:52 pm 
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kzz5joa wrote:
txj wrote:
How does this sound:

1. Balotelli has a history of disruptive conduct so it is fair to bring it up vis a vis his claim of being racially abused.


So, you're suggesting it may be justified if his hot-headed reaction to such a racial abuse is extreme?



I am saying that his past history, is not sufficient reason to summarily conclude that Balotelli is wrong.

And BTW, I think there is a US court ruling in favor of a man for extreme reaction to racial abuse, on the grounds of temporary insanity.

_________________
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Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:51 pm 
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txj wrote:
kzz5joa wrote:
txj wrote:
How does this sound:

1. Balotelli has a history of disruptive conduct so it is fair to bring it up vis a vis his claim of being racially abused.


So, you're suggesting it may be justified if his hot-headed reaction to such a racial abuse is extreme?



I am saying that his past history, is not sufficient reason to summarily conclude that Balotelli is wrong.

And BTW, I think there is a US court ruling in favor of a man for extreme reaction to racial abuse, on the grounds of temporary insanity.



I think it is unfair to Oliseh for you to suggest that he might have suffered an episode of temporary insanity...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:58 pm 
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txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
txj wrote:
Thanks for the offer, including the condescending attitude, but I'm quite confident in my knowledge of research methodology and continued use of it, both in analytical work and day to day practical use.

There's a reason quantitative methods rank much higher than qualitative methods. What I have not done here is dispute the use of qualitative methods. I have simply questioned the confidence limits that can be assigned to an analysis of Oliseh's intent from mere twitter post...All the sophistry in the world cannot diminish this one bit!

It is irrational that a CE member would cite as evidence of Oliseh's failures his reaction to being racially abused. It is irrational that a CE member would cite evidence of Oliseh's failures by citing his decision to quit the SE without recognition of the clear ineptitude of the NFF. It is irrational for a CE member to cite the commotion in 2002 in the SE camp without recognition of the failures of the NFF. That is irrational thinking fueled by bias against Oliseh.

It is curious that in a post by SO alleging criminal intent on the side of the club that your sole interest is on the intent behind his use of the word foreign. Sure it is ur right to choose what to focus on, as is my right to point to the curious nature of ur choice.

I haven't defended Oliseh at any point on the substantial issue. I have merely been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until the full story unfolds.

The complete unwillingness of folks here to give him any benefit of the doubt is itself evidence of irrationality in the reaction of CE towards any issue affecting SO.


Txj

Your knowledge of the research world is questionable when you make the statement that quant research is superior to qualitative research. That is an incredible statement to make in today's world. It is similar to a claim that one culture is superior to the next. The reality is that the methods, like cultures, are just different. Each with its benefits and drawbacks. Those who seek a much more compelling work may use mixed methods.

May I ask which benefit of doubt is there to give if one was focusing on Oliseh's man management? Or his use of social media in angry response? Or his intentional motive? The issue of benefit of doubt arises if the issue is about credibility but then that is just one of multiple issues. You need to understand that your focus on his credibility does not represent every one's interest nor should it. Please divorce yourself from the belief that everyone should see the world from your perspective. People have their own interests and the agency to express them. If you understand that, it will be much easier to comprehend a different viewpoint.


You seem to have a problem comprehending issues and simply make up ur mind what my position is, and then go off on a tangent.

My statement is about quantitative methodology (NOT research); and that it ranks higher in research because it is more rigorous than qualitative methods. I am shocked that as an academic, you would even argue this...

Secondly, you claim I am defending Oliseh, when I have not thus far adjudicated on the substantive issue.

Third, you claim I am focused on credibility, when the issue I raise is about benefit of the doubt.

Benefit of the doubt is not an automatic reference to credibility. It is about common fairness, to not automatically adjudicate a situation without consideration of, at the very least, the potential that their might be another side.

None of us is privy to the full story. Yet according to many here SO is guilty as charged based on his precedence. Never mind the supposed precedence is in itself disputed; or in some cases simply nonsensical given the inputed racial motive...

Txj

I am not amazed. You certainly know more about research than those whose livelihood depend on it. Not surprised. After all, you have claimed to know more about football than coaches who have been trained. Now you know about research than those who do it for a living and edit research manuscripts. No more word on that, indeed. My advice is humility is duly recommended. It helps.

On the rest of your post, we have moved so far now from the issue as you shift from one claim to the next that this is just not worth the while. From intentionality to attempt to change it to issue of credibility. Now it is no longer credibility but about benefit of doubt on about just anything but credibility. When is the next goal post being shifted?


1. No sir, I do not know more than the experts. I never claimed to. What I do know for a fact is that quantitative research methodology is widely accepted as more rigorous than qualitative methods, and has far less bias than the latter.
I will not debate issues of research with you any further based on reasons already mentioned. Hopefully, you will not make those statements in the midst of research scholars in the future. Just hoping.
2. Its a bit rich to claim we have moved so far, when you have a history of repeatedly misrepresenting my stated position and then arguing the latter. Its quite amusing. You've done this so often over the years. Just do a quick search.... :rotf:

My position remains.
Should I be surprised by this? No. It is just as expected.

I stated my surprise at ur focus on the intent of his use of the word foreign as compared to the more substantial allusion to criminality; and that you could not decipher his intent with any credible confidence limit, based on his twitter post. That is and remains my position. The issue of research methodology is a by product of this...

But at the heart of the overall issue remains whether it is right to summarily conclude about SO or whether he should be given any benefit of the doubt.

It is not about credibility any longer? BTW, who determined that this is "the heart of the overall issue"? You? If that is the issue, why do you then argue against the position that I have expressed? Or are you referring to your debate with other CE members? I am a bit confused here. Please elaborate for whom that has become the heart of the overall issue?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:04 pm 
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Na wao. 10 pages in 24 hrs has to be a CE record. And not one by Mr. Solowe. Kai. :mrgreen:

Jokes aside, my hope for Oliseh is that he has some proof to substantiate his claim of illegality by his employer especially in light of the club's response to his tweet. Hiring and firing is a normal and expected part of coaching. What is not normal is blowing up bridges on the way out. That is my concern for Oliseh. He should stay off all media platforms (online, offline, radio, etc) and turn all future correspondence over to his Attorney(s) for review and response in furtherance an amicable resolution.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
txj wrote:
kzz5joa wrote:
txj wrote:
How does this sound:

1. Balotelli has a history of disruptive conduct so it is fair to bring it up vis a vis his claim of being racially abused.


So, you're suggesting it may be justified if his hot-headed reaction to such a racial abuse is extreme?



I am saying that his past history, is not sufficient reason to summarily conclude that Balotelli is wrong.

And BTW, I think there is a US court ruling in favor of a man for extreme reaction to racial abuse, on the grounds of temporary insanity.



I think it is unfair to Oliseh for you to suggest that he might have suffered an episode of temporary insanity...


The term Temporal insanity is in fact often not entirely temporal by what is now known in the field about mental illness. Mental illness is not caused by any one isolated event. it rather evolves overtime in a continuum and only reaches spikes when traumatic events are introduced in the continuum. This might very well explain Oliseh’s well known labile history of episodes of insanities.

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"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:33 pm 
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Ebyboy wrote:
heavyd wrote:
this has really saddened me greatly...
I hope he ends up being vindicated....


:thumbs: :agree:

Vindicated how; this or even appearance of any fracture with this cub shouldnt even have happened given he was handed a life- line and great opportunity to redeem himself after the fiasco with NFF. He is essentially tainted.

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make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:25 pm 
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Enugu II wrote:
Txj

I am not amazed. You certainly know more about research than those whose livelihood depend on it. Not surprised. After all, you have claimed to know more about football than coaches who have been trained. Now you know about research than those who do it for a living and edit research manuscripts. No more word on that, indeed. My advice is humility is duly recommended. It helps.

On the rest of your post, we have moved so far now from the issue as you shift from one claim to the next that this is just not worth the while. From intentionality to attempt to change it to issue of credibility. Now it is no longer credibility but about benefit of doubt on about just anything but credibility. When is the next goal post being shifted?

1. No sir, I do not know more than the experts. I never claimed to. What I do know for a fact is that quantitative research methodology is widely accepted as more rigorous than qualitative methods, and has far less bias than the latter.
I will not debate issues of research with you any further based on reasons already mentioned. Hopefully, you will not make those statements in the midst of research scholars in the future. Just hoping.
2. Its a bit rich to claim we have moved so far, when you have a history of repeatedly misrepresenting my stated position and then arguing the latter. Its quite amusing. You've done this so often over the years. Just do a quick search.... :rotf:

My position remains.
Should I be surprised by this? No. It is just as expected.

I stated my surprise at ur focus on the intent of his use of the word foreign as compared to the more substantial allusion to criminality; and that you could not decipher his intent with any credible confidence limit, based on his twitter post. That is and remains my position. The issue of research methodology is a by product of this...

But at the heart of the overall issue remains whether it is right to summarily conclude about SO or whether he should be given any benefit of the doubt.

It is not about credibility any longer? BTW, who determined that this is "the heart of the overall issue"? You? If that is the issue, why do you then argue against the position that I have expressed? Or are you referring to your debate with other CE members? I am a bit confused here. Please elaborate for whom that has become the heart of the overall issue?


U appear to have real problems dealing with multifaceted arguments.

The issue of credibility came up in reference to your analysis of intent. The issue I raised was whether ur approach (qualitative research methodology) of analyzing SO's intent from a twitter post, can be said to be credible. The specific issue I questioned you on has never changed.

And the extrapolation from that is to the broader question of fairness in judging SO without any benefit of doubt. That is the broader argument Waffiman and I have canvassed on this thread to u and others from the very beginning.

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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:27 pm 
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There will be only one loser in this case, and its Oliseh. In an industry, that the ratio of white to black coaches, is about 9.8 -0.2. Please tell me how any common sensed individual, who still retains any plans of coaching will cause this public spat.
Its so crazy to see people that have lived, and worked in the west for years, try to sentimentalize this issue. I like Oliseh, but he already has a record, which will be brought to court by the Fortuna lawyers, and openly talked about. How he split His national team camp, and eventually left. By the time, this lawyers are done with him, the only thing left will be to give him a pair of horns, and a fork.
More than likely, knowing white folks. When crap hits the fan, even folks that would have validated his illegality accusation, will be nowhere to be seen.

Dude should have walked away with his work of almost having earned the team promotion, speaking for him. Now he has caused a major spat, that will surely be a L for him, and his burgeoning career win or lose in court.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
txj wrote:
kzz5joa wrote:
txj wrote:
How does this sound:

1. Balotelli has a history of disruptive conduct so it is fair to bring it up vis a vis his claim of being racially abused.


So, you're suggesting it may be justified if his hot-headed reaction to such a racial abuse is extreme?



I am saying that his past history, is not sufficient reason to summarily conclude that Balotelli is wrong.

And BTW, I think there is a US court ruling in favor of a man for extreme reaction to racial abuse, on the grounds of temporary insanity.



I think it is unfair to Oliseh for you to suggest that he might have suffered an episode of temporary insanity...


Please do not twist my words for ur purpose. I specifically cited an example with Balo.

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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:32 am 
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Damunk wrote:
Odas wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
Odas wrote:
imehjunior wrote:
Just listening to him on Brilla and here are a few of my take away.
1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.
3. Think he has been advised and didn't say anything bad and thanked them for giving him the opportunity to serve.
4. He is very optimistic over the SE chances in Russia.

As written, assuming you heard the above correctly, I will simply say: Wow! :shock: :shock: :shock: This is why many of us in this Site should have waited to hear from Oliseh before jumping to the: 'I told you so' mode or position.

Thus the club's management is; somehow, responsible for the club's latest losses.

Did you miss this part? When folks said his statements were wrong, you guys didn't want to listen, and were looking for people to pick fights with. If he was right in making those statements on Twitter, why has he backed away from them now?

Hopefully someday, we can debate issues on the CE without being "haters" or "lovers", "agents", etc.

Chief Ogbunigwe,

My point(s) of reference is different from those of yours - Sir. I was referring to points one and two as shown below:

1. He is being owed and that's the crux of the matter.
2. The club started asking players on the bench to sign statements saying they couldn't work with him and this divided the dressing room and led to recent poor run.
But Chief, neither points are 'illegal' activities. Moreover, at this point its all 'dem say', just like the club's allegations are 'dem say'.

But what is not 'dem say' is the public statement - potentially libellous - that Oliseh has made without due caution.
We all immediately raised a red flag knowing he was setting himself up for a lawsuit.
One doesn't have to be a lawyer to know that.

Its never a good thing to put the car in gear before switching on the engine.
You can find yourself in deep, deep water. :D

Chief Damunk: Thus far, no one in this Site has said Oliseh's "illegal activity" accusation of the Club is well placed. For me and to many, he (Oliseh) should have been speaking through his lawyer(s) who are emotionally detached from the commotion and are well equipped to design a line of action than he is.

However, when a team which was HARDLY losing, loses four games in a roll, even a little child can suspect something is wrong in the club. Thus, ... let's wait and see

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:40 am 
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okidoki wrote:
There will be only one loser in this case, and its Oliseh. In an industry, that the ratio of white to black coaches, is about 9.8 -0.2. Please tell me how any common sensed individual, who still retains any plans of coaching will cause this public spat.
Its so crazy to see people that have lived, and worked in the west for years, try to sentimentalize this issue. I like Oliseh, but he already has a record, which will be brought to court by the Fortuna lawyers, and openly talked about. How he split His national team camp, and eventually left. By the time, this lawyers are done with him, the only thing left will be to give him a pair of horns, and a fork.
More than likely, knowing white folks. When crap hits the fan, even folks that would have validated his illegality accusation, will be nowhere to be seen.

Dude should have walked away with his work of almost having earned the team promotion, speaking for him. Now he has caused a major spat, that will surely be a L for him, and his burgeoning career win or lose in court.

:agree: :agree: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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And the BIBLE says: The race is NOT for the swift, neither is the battle for the strong nor ... but time and chance makes them all.
Ecclesiastes 1:18: For in much wisdom is much grief and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:59 am 
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Odas wrote:
okidoki wrote:
There will be only one loser in this case, and its Oliseh. In an industry, that the ratio of white to black coaches, is about 9.8 -0.2. Please tell me how any common sensed individual, who still retains any plans of coaching will cause this public spat.
Its so crazy to see people that have lived, and worked in the west for years, try to sentimentalize this issue. I like Oliseh, but he already has a record, which will be brought to court by the Fortuna lawyers, and openly talked about. How he split His national team camp, and eventually left. By the time, this lawyers are done with him, the only thing left will be to give him a pair of horns, and a fork.
More than likely, knowing white folks. When crap hits the fan, even folks that would have validated his illegality accusation, will be nowhere to be seen.

Dude should have walked away with his work of almost having earned the team promotion, speaking for him. Now he has caused a major spat, that will surely be a L for him, and his burgeoning career win or lose in court.

:agree: :agree: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


Ok...so you now agree with those you disagreed with earlier? Nothing wrong with changing your opinion when you're wrong...in fact, it is highly commendable :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

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