Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2 FT Na wah

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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2

Post by Waffiman »

platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
You win EPL with a squad of at least 15 quality players. The last time we had that was the 'Invincibles'.

So easy to make all sorts of claims. Just do an analysis of Arsenal squads season by season, compare it to other teams. It becomes obvious Wenger delivered the almost impossible.

We have done all this analysis, player per player team to team. These are facts, not feeling.

For example, the 'Invincibles' midfield was:

Patrick Vieira (Captain)
Robert Pirès
Frederick Ljungberg
Ray Parlour
Edu
Gilberto Silva

Arsenal have not come close to that midfield since. Look at the midfield now.

Here is the squad.

Goalies.

Jens Lehmann
Stuart Taylor
Rami Shaaban

Defence

Ashley Cole
Martin Keown
Pascal Cygan
Gaël Clichy
Sol Campbell
Kolo Touré
Lauren

Midfield above.

Forwards

José Antonio Reyes
Dennis Bergkamp
Sylvain Wiltord
Thierry Henry
Nwankwo Kanu
Jérémie Aliadière
I disagree fully. Arsenal did not have a squad much worse than Chelsea who won it last year. What was Leicester's squad? How much quality was there?
Stop gaslighting. Do not change it to Chelsea only. Or Leicester who won a tile once in 125 years. This is about Arsenal and their squad quality depth. At least, you have even dare question the quality of the Invicibles squad.

On what basis have drawn your Chelsea conclusion. Your opinion. They were champions, it effectively means they were the best. But I can produce the respective squads and each players numbers for last and the season before and before. Not feeling just facts.

Start with the Goalies and defence, Arsenal already way behind. Have a good look at Arsenal's squad again.

Arsenal win cups cos, they have a 1st team capable of beating all comers. When injuries set in, they drop points. This has been the pattern for years. Do your cold hard analysis, it is evident.
Arsène Wenger at Arsenal, 1996 to 2018. I was there.
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2 FT Na wah

Post by wale1974 »

tfco wrote::shock: :shock:
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2 FT Na wah

Post by Chief Ogbunigwe »

wale1974 wrote:
tfco wrote::shock: :shock:
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

why sell Walcott and keep Welbeck? Oh, because nobody wants Welbeck?
AFCON 2019 sweet o
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2

Post by Chief Ogbunigwe »

platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
You win EPL with a squad of at least 15 quality players. The last time we had that was the 'Invincibles'.

So easy to make all sorts of claims. Just do an analysis of Arsenal squads season by season, compare it to other teams. It becomes obvious Wenger delivered the almost impossible.

We have done all this analysis, player per player team to team. These are facts, not feeling.

For example, the 'Invincibles' midfield was:

Patrick Vieira (Captain)
Robert Pirès
Frederick Ljungberg
Ray Parlour
Edu
Gilberto Silva

Arsenal have not come close to that midfield since. Look at the midfield now.

Here is the squad.

Goalies.

Jens Lehmann
Stuart Taylor
Rami Shaaban

Defence

Ashley Cole
Martin Keown
Pascal Cygan
Gaël Clichy
Sol Campbell
Kolo Touré
Lauren

Midfield above.

Forwards

José Antonio Reyes
Dennis Bergkamp
Sylvain Wiltord
Thierry Henry
Nwankwo Kanu
Jérémie Aliadière
I disagree fully. Arsenal did not have a squad much worse than Chelsea who won it last year. What was Leicester's squad? How much quality was there?
Did Arsenal have players the quality of Vardy, Kante, Drinkwater :sneaky: :sneaky: :sneaky: , Morgan, Albrighton, Mahrez, Schmeichel, Ulloa, Okazaki?
AFCON 2019 sweet o
Barren for 37 yrs no good o

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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2

Post by wanaj0 »

Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
You win EPL with a squad of at least 15 quality players. The last time we had that was the 'Invincibles'.

So easy to make all sorts of claims. Just do an analysis of Arsenal squads season by season, compare it to other teams. It becomes obvious Wenger delivered the almost impossible.

We have done all this analysis, player per player team to team. These are facts, not feeling.

For example, the 'Invincibles' midfield was:

Patrick Vieira (Captain)
Robert Pirès
Frederick Ljungberg
Ray Parlour
Edu
Gilberto Silva

Arsenal have not come close to that midfield since. Look at the midfield now.

Here is the squad.

Goalies.

Jens Lehmann
Stuart Taylor
Rami Shaaban

Defence

Ashley Cole
Martin Keown
Pascal Cygan
Gaël Clichy
Sol Campbell
Kolo Touré
Lauren

Midfield above.

Forwards

José Antonio Reyes
Dennis Bergkamp
Sylvain Wiltord
Thierry Henry
Nwankwo Kanu
Jérémie Aliadière
I disagree fully. Arsenal did not have a squad much worse than Chelsea who won it last year. What was Leicester's squad? How much quality was there?
Did Arsenal have players the quality of Vardy, Kante, Drinkwater :sneaky: :sneaky: :sneaky: , Morgan, Albrighton, Mahrez, Schmeichel, Ulloa, Okazaki?
Leicester City is a financially doped club that's why they won the EPL title! Moreover they don't play the game as it is supposed to be played. Referees and the FA were also busy dashing them points.

Anyway, you are free to support Leicester. We true gunners know that we are winning the Europa League. If you know the number of players wishing to take a paycut just to play for Arsenal. Some have said that if they don't play for Wenger they will give up playing football. We are lucky to have him as our coach for life.
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2

Post by platinum »

Waffiman wrote:
platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
You win EPL with a squad of at least 15 quality players. The last time we had that was the 'Invincibles'.

So easy to make all sorts of claims. Just do an analysis of Arsenal squads season by season, compare it to other teams. It becomes obvious Wenger delivered the almost impossible.

We have done all this analysis, player per player team to team. These are facts, not feeling.

For example, the 'Invincibles' midfield was:

Patrick Vieira (Captain)
Robert Pirès
Frederick Ljungberg
Ray Parlour
Edu
Gilberto Silva

Arsenal have not come close to that midfield since. Look at the midfield now.

Here is the squad.

Goalies.

Jens Lehmann
Stuart Taylor
Rami Shaaban

Defence

Ashley Cole
Martin Keown
Pascal Cygan
Gaël Clichy
Sol Campbell
Kolo Touré
Lauren

Midfield above.

Forwards

José Antonio Reyes
Dennis Bergkamp
Sylvain Wiltord
Thierry Henry
Nwankwo Kanu
Jérémie Aliadière
I disagree fully. Arsenal did not have a squad much worse than Chelsea who won it last year. What was Leicester's squad? How much quality was there?
Stop gaslighting. Do not change it to Chelsea only. Or Leicester who won a tile once in 125 years. This is about Arsenal and their squad quality depth. At least, you have even dare question the quality of the Invicibles squad.

On what basis have drawn your Chelsea conclusion. Your opinion. They were champions, it effectively means they were the best. But I can produce the respective squads and each players numbers for last and the season before and before. Not feeling just facts.

Start with the Goalies and defence, Arsenal already way behind. Have a good look at Arsenal's squad again.

Arsenal win cups cos, they have a 1st team capable of beating all comers. When injuries set in, they drop points. This has been the pattern for years. Do your cold hard analysis, it is evident.

It doesn't matter that Leicester's title was one in 125 years, it matters that they did it very recently. Recency bias of sorts if you will. And sure, it's subjective, it all is. Chelsea were the best, I agree. When Arsenal finished 2nd behind Leicester, does that then mean that Arsenal had a better squad than Chelsea/City/United/etc?

Produce the squads, I think you'll find that most were not as loaded. Chelsea's from last season certainly wasn't, not unless you're counting Batshuayi, Begovic, Zouma, etc as juggernauts. It really was not a deep squad. The counter argument is that they didn't have the Champions League to worry about but we've seen Arsenal without that worry and it's not exactly a nice picture.
Evans Bipi, had declared to the press, “Why must [Governor Amaechi] be insulting my mother, my Jesus Christ on earth?”
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2

Post by Waffiman »

Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
You win EPL with a squad of at least 15 quality players. The last time we had that was the 'Invincibles'.

So easy to make all sorts of claims. Just do an analysis of Arsenal squads season by season, compare it to other teams. It becomes obvious Wenger delivered the almost impossible.

We have done all this analysis, player per player team to team. These are facts, not feeling.

For example, the 'Invincibles' midfield was:

Patrick Vieira (Captain)
Robert Pirès
Frederick Ljungberg
Ray Parlour
Edu
Gilberto Silva

Arsenal have not come close to that midfield since. Look at the midfield now.

Here is the squad.

Goalies.

Jens Lehmann
Stuart Taylor
Rami Shaaban

Defence

Ashley Cole
Martin Keown
Pascal Cygan
Gaël Clichy
Sol Campbell
Kolo Touré
Lauren

Midfield above.

Forwards

José Antonio Reyes
Dennis Bergkamp
Sylvain Wiltord
Thierry Henry
Nwankwo Kanu
Jérémie Aliadière
I disagree fully. Arsenal did not have a squad much worse than Chelsea who won it last year. What was Leicester's squad? How much quality was there?
Did Arsenal have players the quality of Vardy, Kante, Drinkwater :sneaky: :sneaky: :sneaky: , Morgan, Albrighton, Mahrez, Schmeichel, Ulloa, Okazaki?
They did once in 125 years.
Arsène Wenger at Arsenal, 1996 to 2018. I was there.
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2

Post by Waffiman »

platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
You win EPL with a squad of at least 15 quality players. The last time we had that was the 'Invincibles'.

So easy to make all sorts of claims. Just do an analysis of Arsenal squads season by season, compare it to other teams. It becomes obvious Wenger delivered the almost impossible.

We have done all this analysis, player per player team to team. These are facts, not feeling.

For example, the 'Invincibles' midfield was:

Patrick Vieira (Captain)
Robert Pirès
Frederick Ljungberg
Ray Parlour
Edu
Gilberto Silva

Arsenal have not come close to that midfield since. Look at the midfield now.

Here is the squad.

Goalies.

Jens Lehmann
Stuart Taylor
Rami Shaaban

Defence

Ashley Cole
Martin Keown
Pascal Cygan
Gaël Clichy
Sol Campbell
Kolo Touré
Lauren

Midfield above.

Forwards

José Antonio Reyes
Dennis Bergkamp
Sylvain Wiltord
Thierry Henry
Nwankwo Kanu
Jérémie Aliadière
I disagree fully. Arsenal did not have a squad much worse than Chelsea who won it last year. What was Leicester's squad? How much quality was there?
Stop gaslighting. Do not change it to Chelsea only. Or Leicester who won a tile once in 125 years. This is about Arsenal and their squad quality depth. At least, you have even dare question the quality of the Invicibles squad.

On what basis have drawn your Chelsea conclusion. Your opinion. They were champions, it effectively means they were the best. But I can produce the respective squads and each players numbers for last and the season before and before. Not feeling just facts.

Start with the Goalies and defence, Arsenal already way behind. Have a good look at Arsenal's squad again.

Arsenal win cups cos, they have a 1st team capable of beating all comers. When injuries set in, they drop points. This has been the pattern for years. Do your cold hard analysis, it is evident.

It doesn't matter that Leicester's title was one in 125 years, it matters that they did it very recently. Recency bias of sorts if you will. And sure, it's subjective, it all is. Chelsea were the best, I agree. When Arsenal finished 2nd behind Leicester, does that then mean that Arsenal had a better squad than Chelsea/City/United/etc?

Produce the squads, I think you'll find that most were not as loaded. Chelsea's from last season certainly wasn't, not unless you're counting Batshuayi, Begovic, Zouma, etc as juggernauts. It really was not a deep squad. The counter argument is that they didn't have the Champions League to worry about but we've seen Arsenal without that worry and it's not exactly a nice picture.
It matters. You do not a once in lifetime event and equate it to the norm.

Besides Leicester had the luck with injuries. No European football. When we lost Santi, it cost us the title.

Compare Oranges with oranges, not apples.
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2 FT Na wah

Post by Siddonlook11 »

Una see the wahala osunde club cause and still dey cause ? I blame welbeck for all this nonsense :curse: :curse: :curse: thread would have been zagaloed to the pits if not for welbeck.
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2

Post by platinum »

Waffiman wrote:
platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
You win EPL with a squad of at least 15 quality players. The last time we had that was the 'Invincibles'.

So easy to make all sorts of claims. Just do an analysis of Arsenal squads season by season, compare it to other teams. It becomes obvious Wenger delivered the almost impossible.

We have done all this analysis, player per player team to team. These are facts, not feeling.

For example, the 'Invincibles' midfield was:

Patrick Vieira (Captain)
Robert Pirès
Frederick Ljungberg
Ray Parlour
Edu
Gilberto Silva

Arsenal have not come close to that midfield since. Look at the midfield now.

Here is the squad.

Goalies.

Jens Lehmann
Stuart Taylor
Rami Shaaban

Defence

Ashley Cole
Martin Keown
Pascal Cygan
Gaël Clichy
Sol Campbell
Kolo Touré
Lauren

Midfield above.

Forwards

José Antonio Reyes
Dennis Bergkamp
Sylvain Wiltord
Thierry Henry
Nwankwo Kanu
Jérémie Aliadière
I disagree fully. Arsenal did not have a squad much worse than Chelsea who won it last year. What was Leicester's squad? How much quality was there?
Stop gaslighting. Do not change it to Chelsea only. Or Leicester who won a tile once in 125 years. This is about Arsenal and their squad quality depth. At least, you have even dare question the quality of the Invicibles squad.

On what basis have drawn your Chelsea conclusion. Your opinion. They were champions, it effectively means they were the best. But I can produce the respective squads and each players numbers for last and the season before and before. Not feeling just facts.

Start with the Goalies and defence, Arsenal already way behind. Have a good look at Arsenal's squad again.

Arsenal win cups cos, they have a 1st team capable of beating all comers. When injuries set in, they drop points. This has been the pattern for years. Do your cold hard analysis, it is evident.

It doesn't matter that Leicester's title was one in 125 years, it matters that they did it very recently. Recency bias of sorts if you will. And sure, it's subjective, it all is. Chelsea were the best, I agree. When Arsenal finished 2nd behind Leicester, does that then mean that Arsenal had a better squad than Chelsea/City/United/etc?

Produce the squads, I think you'll find that most were not as loaded. Chelsea's from last season certainly wasn't, not unless you're counting Batshuayi, Begovic, Zouma, etc as juggernauts. It really was not a deep squad. The counter argument is that they didn't have the Champions League to worry about but we've seen Arsenal without that worry and it's not exactly a nice picture.
It matters. You do not a once in lifetime event and equate it to the norm.

Besides Leicester had the luck with injuries. No European football. When we lost Santi, it cost us the title.

Compare Oranges with oranges, not apples.

Once in 125 years with an average squad or team that had a daring manager and two superb players. Arsenal has had Alexis and Ozil.

I get the point about Santi, he's very important however it's not as if Arsenal hasn't had the chance to replace him. Also it's not as if he's not had healthy seasons, the club didnt win it all when he was healthy.

We no go agree on this, it's subjective. Every point I raise, you will have a counter, and vice versa.
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2 FT Na wah

Post by kajifu »

When Chelsea win its because of no CL footie,Arsenal cant even compete without CL football.
We used to hear the noise about give Wenger money and he win the CL and EPL.Leicester win it to cancel such believe that you can compete without spending crazy money and Arsenal finish second behind Leicester with 15 points.Question now is was Arsenal a better team than Spurs,Chelsea,Manu and City that finish behind arsenal?
If Yes,what was Arsenal spending during this season compare to the rest.Its even shameful that Arsenal finish second but never in the title race.

Wenger better win the Europa because its clear that the 5 teams ahead of us will likely finish above us.I don't see 2 messing up for us to nick 4th or 3rd spot.
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2

Post by Waffiman »

platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
You win EPL with a squad of at least 15 quality players. The last time we had that was the 'Invincibles'.

So easy to make all sorts of claims. Just do an analysis of Arsenal squads season by season, compare it to other teams. It becomes obvious Wenger delivered the almost impossible.

We have done all this analysis, player per player team to team. These are facts, not feeling.

For example, the 'Invincibles' midfield was:

Patrick Vieira (Captain)
Robert Pirès
Frederick Ljungberg
Ray Parlour
Edu
Gilberto Silva

Arsenal have not come close to that midfield since. Look at the midfield now.

Here is the squad.

Goalies.

Jens Lehmann
Stuart Taylor
Rami Shaaban

Defence

Ashley Cole
Martin Keown
Pascal Cygan
Gaël Clichy
Sol Campbell
Kolo Touré
Lauren

Midfield above.

Forwards

José Antonio Reyes
Dennis Bergkamp
Sylvain Wiltord
Thierry Henry
Nwankwo Kanu
Jérémie Aliadière
I disagree fully. Arsenal did not have a squad much worse than Chelsea who won it last year. What was Leicester's squad? How much quality was there?
Stop gaslighting. Do not change it to Chelsea only. Or Leicester who won a tile once in 125 years. This is about Arsenal and their squad quality depth. At least, you have even dare question the quality of the Invicibles squad.

On what basis have drawn your Chelsea conclusion. Your opinion. They were champions, it effectively means they were the best. But I can produce the respective squads and each players numbers for last and the season before and before. Not feeling just facts.

Start with the Goalies and defence, Arsenal already way behind. Have a good look at Arsenal's squad again.

Arsenal win cups cos, they have a 1st team capable of beating all comers. When injuries set in, they drop points. This has been the pattern for years. Do your cold hard analysis, it is evident.

It doesn't matter that Leicester's title was one in 125 years, it matters that they did it very recently. Recency bias of sorts if you will. And sure, it's subjective, it all is. Chelsea were the best, I agree. When Arsenal finished 2nd behind Leicester, does that then mean that Arsenal had a better squad than Chelsea/City/United/etc?

Produce the squads, I think you'll find that most were not as loaded. Chelsea's from last season certainly wasn't, not unless you're counting Batshuayi, Begovic, Zouma, etc as juggernauts. It really was not a deep squad. The counter argument is that they didn't have the Champions League to worry about but we've seen Arsenal without that worry and it's not exactly a nice picture.
It matters. You do not a once in lifetime event and equate it to the norm.

Besides Leicester had the luck with injuries. No European football. When we lost Santi, it cost us the title.

Compare Oranges with oranges, not apples.

Once in 125 years with an average squad or team that had a daring manager and two superb players. Arsenal has had Alexis and Ozil.

I get the point about Santi, he's very important however it's not as if Arsenal hasn't had the chance to replace him. Also it's not as if he's not had healthy seasons, the club didnt win it all when he was healthy.

We no go agree on this, it's subjective. Every point I raise, you will have a counter, and vice versa.
I am giving numbers of what actually happened. You are giving your opinion. This info is all over the internet if you really want to know the facts.

How many games did Sanchez play that season? You forget he was out for a while and took time to recover his form.

Here is Chelsea when they won the league. I can do the same for Leicester. I have all these figures.

Hector Bellerin (D) 27 (6)
Santi Cazorla (M) 7 (1)
Petr Cech (G) 35 (0)
Francis Coquelin (M) 22 (7)
Mathieu Debuchy (D) 1 (0)
Mohamed Elneny (M) 8 (6)
Gabriel Paulista (D) 15 (4)
Kieran Gibbs (D) 8 (3)
Olivier Giroud (F) 11 (18)
Rob Holding (D) 9 (0)
Alex Iwobi (M) 18 (8)
Laurent Koscielny (D) 33 (0)
Lucas Perez (F)
Matt Macey (G)
Ainsley Maitland-Niles (M)
Damian Emiliano Martinez (G)
Per Mertesacker (D)
Nacho Monreal (D) 35 (1)
Shkodran Mustafi (D) 26 (0)
David Ospina (G)
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (M) 16 (13)
Mesut Ozil (M) 32 (1)
Aaron Ramsey (M) 13 (10)
Jeff Reine Adelaide (M)
Alexis Sanchez (F) 36 (2)
Theo Walcott (F) 23 (5)
Danny Welbeck (F) 8 (8)
Granit Xhaka (M) 28 (4)



Nathan Ake (D) 1 (1)
Marcos Alonso (D) 30 (1)
Cesar Azpilicueta (D) 38 (0)
Michy Batshuayi (F) 1 (19)
Asmir Begovic (G) 2 (0)
Gary Cahill (D) 36 (1)
Diego Costa (F) 35 (0)
Thibaut Courtois (G) 36 (0)
Eduardo (G) 0 (0)
Cesc Fabregas (M) 13 (16)
Eden Hazard (M) 36 (0)
Branislav Ivanovic (D) 6 (7)
N'Golo Kante (M) 35 (0)
David Luiz (D) 33 (0)
Nemanja Matic (M) 30 (5)
Victor Moses (M) 29 (5)
Oscar (M) 5 (4)
Pedro (F) 26 (9)
Dominic Solanke (F)
John Terry (D) 6 (3)
Willian (M) 15 (19)
Kurt Zouma (D) 3 (6)

First key stat to winning championships. Playing your best players for as many games as possible. Chelsea had 10 players playing 29 games and more. Arsenal had 5. Chelsea then had 2 players playing 15 and 26 games. Arsenal had 8. Of the 8, 5 played 22 to 28 games.

So Chelsea get to play 11 of their first team for 26 games and more. Yes. The least number of games a Chelsea first team player played was 26 games. The next was 29 and the rest 30 games plus. That is how you win titles. Leicester had similar numbers when they won it.

Look at Arsenal, they had only 5 1st team players playing 29 games plus. Then 8 playing 15 to 28 games. Ramsey and Santi play 20 games all season. This is what kills Arsenal. The squad is just not good enough to cope with injuries.

You also win Championships when you have a quality 15 to 17. ManU, City, Arsenal and Chelsea have done exactly this in previous seasons. The Invicinbles went to places like Portsmouth and at Highbury playing without 4 to 5 1st team players. No Arsenal squad has been able to do that since.

These are all things we have analysed in details. It is just lazy and ignorant to call Leicester without knowledge of the details. This is what I find here consistently, too much ignorance. Go look at the number of players they used when they won the league, compare it with the other clubs, then you see how lucky they were with injuries. Arsenal's challenge ended with key injuries at critical times. So did the challenge if other clubs.

Remember when we beat Leicester and lost the next game to ManU. Paulista came into that defence and Santi got injured, we had already lost Sanchez for most part of that season. He returned and was rubbish for 8 games. Who were the players who filled and how many points did we get without 3 to 4 first team players. The numbers are all there if you really want to be fair and objective.
Arsène Wenger at Arsenal, 1996 to 2018. I was there.
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2 FT Na wah

Post by Waffiman »

Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
wale1974 wrote:
tfco wrote::shock: :shock:
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

why sell Walcott and keep Welbeck? Oh, because nobody wants Welbeck?
Says who?

Arsenal have got rid of 14 players (sold or loaned out) in 2 windows. That is not good for the key ingredient of stability and consistency that makes top 4. Arsenal now need to keep certain senior pros at the club for the various qualities they offer both on and off the pitch. Do you remember Ray Parlour.
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2 FT Na wah

Post by Chief Ogbunigwe »

Waffiman wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
wale1974 wrote:
tfco wrote::shock: :shock:
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

why sell Walcott and keep Welbeck? Oh, because nobody wants Welbeck?
Says who?

Arsenal have got rid of 14 players (sold or loaned out) in 2 windows. That is not good for the key ingredient of stability and consistency that makes top 4. Arsenal now need to keep certain senior pros at the club for the various qualities they offer both on and off the pitch. Do you remember Ray Parlour.
Ok, please send Welbeck back to Man U
AFCON 2019 sweet o
Barren for 37 yrs no good o

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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2 FT Na wah

Post by platinum »

Waffiman wrote:
platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
You win EPL with a squad of at least 15 quality players. The last time we had that was the 'Invincibles'.

So easy to make all sorts of claims. Just do an analysis of Arsenal squads season by season, compare it to other teams. It becomes obvious Wenger delivered the almost impossible.

We have done all this analysis, player per player team to team. These are facts, not feeling.

For example, the 'Invincibles' midfield was:

Patrick Vieira (Captain)
Robert Pirès
Frederick Ljungberg
Ray Parlour
Edu
Gilberto Silva

Arsenal have not come close to that midfield since. Look at the midfield now.

Here is the squad.

Goalies.

Jens Lehmann
Stuart Taylor
Rami Shaaban

Defence

Ashley Cole
Martin Keown
Pascal Cygan
Gaël Clichy
Sol Campbell
Kolo Touré
Lauren

Midfield above.

Forwards

José Antonio Reyes
Dennis Bergkamp
Sylvain Wiltord
Thierry Henry
Nwankwo Kanu
Jérémie Aliadière
I disagree fully. Arsenal did not have a squad much worse than Chelsea who won it last year. What was Leicester's squad? How much quality was there?
Stop gaslighting. Do not change it to Chelsea only. Or Leicester who won a tile once in 125 years. This is about Arsenal and their squad quality depth. At least, you have even dare question the quality of the Invicibles squad.

On what basis have drawn your Chelsea conclusion. Your opinion. They were champions, it effectively means they were the best. But I can produce the respective squads and each players numbers for last and the season before and before. Not feeling just facts.

Start with the Goalies and defence, Arsenal already way behind. Have a good look at Arsenal's squad again.

Arsenal win cups cos, they have a 1st team capable of beating all comers. When injuries set in, they drop points. This has been the pattern for years. Do your cold hard analysis, it is evident.

It doesn't matter that Leicester's title was one in 125 years, it matters that they did it very recently. Recency bias of sorts if you will. And sure, it's subjective, it all is. Chelsea were the best, I agree. When Arsenal finished 2nd behind Leicester, does that then mean that Arsenal had a better squad than Chelsea/City/United/etc?

Produce the squads, I think you'll find that most were not as loaded. Chelsea's from last season certainly wasn't, not unless you're counting Batshuayi, Begovic, Zouma, etc as juggernauts. It really was not a deep squad. The counter argument is that they didn't have the Champions League to worry about but we've seen Arsenal without that worry and it's not exactly a nice picture.
It matters. You do not a once in lifetime event and equate it to the norm.

Besides Leicester had the luck with injuries. No European football. When we lost Santi, it cost us the title.

Compare Oranges with oranges, not apples.

Once in 125 years with an average squad or team that had a daring manager and two superb players. Arsenal has had Alexis and Ozil.

I get the point about Santi, he's very important however it's not as if Arsenal hasn't had the chance to replace him. Also it's not as if he's not had healthy seasons, the club didnt win it all when he was healthy.

We no go agree on this, it's subjective. Every point I raise, you will have a counter, and vice versa.
I am giving numbers of what actually happened. You are giving your opinion. This info is all over the internet if you really want to know the facts.

How many games did Sanchez play that season? You forget he was out for a while and took time to recover his form.

Here is Chelsea when they won the league. I can do the same for Leicester. I have all these figures.

Hector Bellerin (D) 27 (6)
Santi Cazorla (M) 7 (1)
Petr Cech (G) 35 (0)
Francis Coquelin (M) 22 (7)
Mathieu Debuchy (D) 1 (0)
Mohamed Elneny (M) 8 (6)
Gabriel Paulista (D) 15 (4)
Kieran Gibbs (D) 8 (3)
Olivier Giroud (F) 11 (18)
Rob Holding (D) 9 (0)
Alex Iwobi (M) 18 (8)
Laurent Koscielny (D) 33 (0)
Lucas Perez (F)
Matt Macey (G)
Ainsley Maitland-Niles (M)
Damian Emiliano Martinez (G)
Per Mertesacker (D)
Nacho Monreal (D) 35 (1)
Shkodran Mustafi (D) 26 (0)
David Ospina (G)
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (M) 16 (13)
Mesut Ozil (M) 32 (1)
Aaron Ramsey (M) 13 (10)
Jeff Reine Adelaide (M)
Alexis Sanchez (F) 36 (2)
Theo Walcott (F) 23 (5)
Danny Welbeck (F) 8 (8)
Granit Xhaka (M) 28 (4)



Nathan Ake (D) 1 (1)
Marcos Alonso (D) 30 (1)
Cesar Azpilicueta (D) 38 (0)
Michy Batshuayi (F) 1 (19)
Asmir Begovic (G) 2 (0)
Gary Cahill (D) 36 (1)
Diego Costa (F) 35 (0)
Thibaut Courtois (G) 36 (0)
Eduardo (G) 0 (0)
Cesc Fabregas (M) 13 (16)
Eden Hazard (M) 36 (0)
Branislav Ivanovic (D) 6 (7)
N'Golo Kante (M) 35 (0)
David Luiz (D) 33 (0)
Nemanja Matic (M) 30 (5)
Victor Moses (M) 29 (5)
Oscar (M) 5 (4)
Pedro (F) 26 (9)
Dominic Solanke (F)
John Terry (D) 6 (3)
Willian (M) 15 (19)
Kurt Zouma (D) 3 (6)

First key stat to winning championships. Playing your best players for as many games as possible. Chelsea had 10 players playing 29 games and more. Arsenal had 5. Chelsea then had 2 players playing 15 and 26 games. Arsenal had 8. Of the 8, 5 played 22 to 28 games.

So Chelsea get to play 11 of their first team for 26 games and more. Yes. The least number of games a Chelsea first team player played was 26 games. The next was 29 and the rest 30 games plus. That is how you win titles. Leicester had similar numbers when they won it.

Look at Arsenal, they had only 5 1st team players playing 29 games plus. Then 8 playing 15 to 28 games. Ramsey and Santi play 20 games all season. This is what kills Arsenal. The squad is just not good enough to cope with injuries.

You also win Championships when you have a quality 15 to 17. ManU, City, Arsenal and Chelsea have done exactly this in previous seasons. The Invicinbles went to places like Portsmouth and at Highbury playing without 4 to 5 1st team players. No Arsenal squad has been able to do that since.

These are all things we have analysed in details. It is just lazy and ignorant to call Leicester without knowledge of the details. This is what I find here consistently, too much ignorance. Go look at the number of players they used when they won the league, compare it with the other clubs, then you see how lucky they were with injuries. Arsenal's challenge ended with key injuries at critical times. So did the challenge if other clubs.

Remember when we beat Leicester and lost the next game to ManU. Paulista came into that defence and Santi got injured, we had already lost Sanchez for most part of that season. He returned and was rubbish for 8 games. Who were the players who filled and how many points did we get without 3 to 4 first team players. The numbers are all there if you really want to be fair and objective.
The highlighted is of course your opinion, it's not fact.

Besides, you yourself are saying a squad of at least 15 quality players is necessary to win which contradicts how chela got it done.

The points you raise are subjective not fact. Injuries happen, squad depth is good, ditto playing a core of 11/12 as much as possible, multiple ways to skin a cat.
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2 FT Na wah

Post by Waffiman »

platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:
platinum wrote:
Waffiman wrote:[

Stop gaslighting. Do not change it to Chelsea only. Or Leicester who won a tile once in 125 years. This is about Arsenal and their squad quality depth. At least, you have even dare question the quality of the Invicibles squad.

On what basis have drawn your Chelsea conclusion. Your opinion. They were champions, it effectively means they were the best. But I can produce the respective squads and each players numbers for last and the season before and before. Not feeling just facts.

Start with the Goalies and defence, Arsenal already way behind. Have a good look at Arsenal's squad again.

Arsenal win cups cos, they have a 1st team capable of beating all comers. When injuries set in, they drop points. This has been the pattern for years. Do your cold hard analysis, it is evident.

It doesn't matter that Leicester's title was one in 125 years, it matters that they did it very recently. Recency bias of sorts if you will. And sure, it's subjective, it all is. Chelsea were the best, I agree. When Arsenal finished 2nd behind Leicester, does that then mean that Arsenal had a better squad than Chelsea/City/United/etc?

Produce the squads, I think you'll find that most were not as loaded. Chelsea's from last season certainly wasn't, not unless you're counting Batshuayi, Begovic, Zouma, etc as juggernauts. It really was not a deep squad. The counter argument is that they didn't have the Champions League to worry about but we've seen Arsenal without that worry and it's not exactly a nice picture.
It matters. You do not a once in lifetime event and equate it to the norm.

Besides Leicester had the luck with injuries. No European football. When we lost Santi, it cost us the title.

Compare Oranges with oranges, not apples.

Once in 125 years with an average squad or team that had a daring manager and two superb players. Arsenal has had Alexis and Ozil.

I get the point about Santi, he's very important however it's not as if Arsenal hasn't had the chance to replace him. Also it's not as if he's not had healthy seasons, the club didnt win it all when he was healthy.

We no go agree on this, it's subjective. Every point I raise, you will have a counter, and vice versa.
I am giving numbers of what actually happened. You are giving your opinion. This info is all over the internet if you really want to know the facts.

How many games did Sanchez play that season? You forget he was out for a while and took time to recover his form.

Here is Chelsea when they won the league. I can do the same for Leicester. I have all these figures.

Hector Bellerin (D) 27 (6)
Santi Cazorla (M) 7 (1)
Petr Cech (G) 35 (0)
Francis Coquelin (M) 22 (7)
Mathieu Debuchy (D) 1 (0)
Mohamed Elneny (M) 8 (6)
Gabriel Paulista (D) 15 (4)
Kieran Gibbs (D) 8 (3)
Olivier Giroud (F) 11 (18)
Rob Holding (D) 9 (0)
Alex Iwobi (M) 18 (8)
Laurent Koscielny (D) 33 (0)
Lucas Perez (F)
Matt Macey (G)
Ainsley Maitland-Niles (M)
Damian Emiliano Martinez (G)
Per Mertesacker (D)
Nacho Monreal (D) 35 (1)
Shkodran Mustafi (D) 26 (0)
David Ospina (G)
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (M) 16 (13)
Mesut Ozil (M) 32 (1)
Aaron Ramsey (M) 13 (10)
Jeff Reine Adelaide (M)
Alexis Sanchez (F) 36 (2)
Theo Walcott (F) 23 (5)
Danny Welbeck (F) 8 (8)
Granit Xhaka (M) 28 (4)



Nathan Ake (D) 1 (1)
Marcos Alonso (D) 30 (1)
Cesar Azpilicueta (D) 38 (0)
Michy Batshuayi (F) 1 (19)
Asmir Begovic (G) 2 (0)
Gary Cahill (D) 36 (1)
Diego Costa (F) 35 (0)
Thibaut Courtois (G) 36 (0)
Eduardo (G) 0 (0)
Cesc Fabregas (M) 13 (16)
Eden Hazard (M) 36 (0)
Branislav Ivanovic (D) 6 (7)
N'Golo Kante (M) 35 (0)
David Luiz (D) 33 (0)
Nemanja Matic (M) 30 (5)
Victor Moses (M) 29 (5)
Oscar (M) 5 (4)
Pedro (F) 26 (9)
Dominic Solanke (F)
John Terry (D) 6 (3)
Willian (M) 15 (19)
Kurt Zouma (D) 3 (6)

First key stat to winning championships. Playing your best players for as many games as possible. Chelsea had 10 players playing 29 games and more. Arsenal had 5. Chelsea then had 2 players playing 15 and 26 games. Arsenal had 8. Of the 8, 5 played 22 to 28 games.

So Chelsea get to play 11 of their first team for 26 games and more. Yes. The least number of games a Chelsea first team player played was 26 games. The next was 29 and the rest 30 games plus. That is how you win titles. Leicester had similar numbers when they won it.

Look at Arsenal, they had only 5 1st team players playing 29 games plus. Then 8 playing 15 to 28 games. Ramsey and Santi play 20 games all season. This is what kills Arsenal. The squad is just not good enough to cope with injuries.

You also win Championships when you have a quality 15 to 17. ManU, City, Arsenal and Chelsea have done exactly this in previous seasons. The Invicinbles went to places like Portsmouth and at Highbury playing without 4 to 5 1st team players. No Arsenal squad has been able to do that since.

These are all things we have analysed in details. It is just lazy and ignorant to call Leicester without knowledge of the details. This is what I find here consistently, too much ignorance. Go look at the number of players they used when they won the league, compare it with the other clubs, then you see how lucky they were with injuries. Arsenal's challenge ended with key injuries at critical times. So did the challenge if other clubs.

Remember when we beat Leicester and lost the next game to ManU. Paulista came into that defence and Santi got injured, we had already lost Sanchez for most part of that season. He returned and was rubbish for 8 games. Who were the players who filled and how many points did we get without 3 to 4 first team players. The numbers are all there if you really want to be fair and objective.
The highlighted is of course your opinion, it's not fact.

Besides, you yourself are saying a squad of at least 15 quality players is necessary to win which contradicts how chela got it done.

The points you raise are subjective not fact. Injuries happen, squad depth is good, ditto playing a core of 11/12 as much as possible, multiple ways to skin a cat.
Not opinion but fact. I just put both squads and how many games each player played in the league during the season. We can see Chelsea had a 1st team that play the majority of their league games. Leicester also had the same.

Go study each club that has won the league in the last 20 years, there is a clear pattern resulting from the number of games each player played. Not opinion, just numbers.

Oh! You still insist the Arsenal squad was better. I noticed you said nothing since I put the squad and games each player played.

All I have stated are facts resulting from the numbers. Not opinion. Fact! Victor Moses started 29 games and was a sub for 5 in the league that season. Only 5 Arsenal players started more games than Moses but at Chelsea 9 did.
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Re: Arsenal 1 vs Ostersunds 2 FT Na wah

Post by Chief Ogbunigwe »

Waffiman wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
wale1974 wrote:
tfco wrote::shock: :shock:
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

why sell Walcott and keep Welbeck? Oh, because nobody wants Welbeck?
Says who?

Arsenal have got rid of 14 players (sold or loaned out) in 2 windows. That is not good for the key ingredient of stability and consistency that makes top 4. Arsenal now need to keep certain senior pros at the club for the various qualities they offer both on and off the pitch. Do you remember Ray Parlour.
I won't let useless players raise my blood pressure. I am back to watching old videos of real players like Ljunberg, Pires, Bergkamp, Henry, Viera, Kanu, etc.

I can't believe the same team and coach now has these yeye scrubs these days.
AFCON 2019 sweet o
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