I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by john12 »

Okay, Obong just confirmed that Vincent has already come out of retirement and it’s in communication with rohr in regards to it. Well, as long as Vincent is fit presently he is our best keeper. My only issues with Vincent was retirement issues but obong claims that’s not a problem anymore
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

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john12 wrote:Okay, Obong just confirmed that Vincent has already come out of retirement and it’s in communication with rohr in regards to it. Well, as long as Vincent is fit presently he is our best keeper. My only issues with Vincent was retirement issues but obong claims that’s not a problem anymore
He has to start playing games, according to the manager.
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

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Enugu II wrote:
john12 wrote:Okay, Obong just confirmed that Vincent has already come out of retirement and it’s in communication with rohr in regards to it. Well, as long as Vincent is fit presently he is our best keeper. My only issues with Vincent was retirement issues but obong claims that’s not a problem anymore
He has to start playing games, according to the manager.
We are almost into March. Season in Europe ends in April/May.
He last played in a 2-0 defeat away at Rennes last year April.
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by Obong »

oloye wrote:The only thing i have to say about this debate of bringing back Vince is....i want a list of all these people so that i can monitor their posituon after the WC.

If Vince is not playing regularly he is not good enough for the WC. And i know what these people will be saying if that truth about his non playing time comes back to haunt the team.
oloye, I agree with you, albeit, with a proviso. My contention has been that considering the goalkeeping situation we are in, and considering Vince's willingness to return,he ought to be invited and tried out in camp. Like Rohr has said and like he has agreed, there are no guarantees. If the man shows up and "shows up" he gets a jersey. If he doesn't, at least we know we explored the option. Much as we may want to de-emphasize experience(especially at the position), I bring to reference the recent Nigerian example. It was almost an unrequited battle for the revered late Coach Keshi to invite Yobo and Odemwingie to the 2014 World Cup team. Recall they both hardly played in the qualifiers. It turned out that they both played very crucial roles in the World Cup campaign. Odemwingie was very instrumental to our midfield and attack(he scored a goal), and Yobo ably marshalled the defence. Their experience spanning two World cups and three to four Nations Cups was brought to bear on the team from what we saw on the field and what we did not get to see in the locker room.
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by Obong »

pajimoh wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
john12 wrote:Okay, Obong just confirmed that Vincent has already come out of retirement and it’s in communication with rohr in regards to it. Well, as long as Vincent is fit presently he is our best keeper. My only issues with Vincent was retirement issues but obong claims that’s not a problem anymore
He has to start playing games, according to the manager.
We are almost into March. Season in Europe ends in April/May.
He last played in a 2-0 defeat away at Rennes last year April.
Correction. His come back match was in December 2017. They won 3-1 and he saved a penalty. Ideally, he should get games under his belt ahead of our camp. If that doesn't happen, the aftermath will be up to Rohr.

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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

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Obong wrote:
oloye wrote:The only thing i have to say about this debate of bringing back Vince is....i want a list of all these people so that i can monitor their posituon after the WC.

If Vince is not playing regularly he is not good enough for the WC. And i know what these people will be saying if that truth about his non playing time comes back to haunt the team.
oloye, I agree with you. My contention has been that considering the goalkeeping situation we are in, and considering Vince's willingness to return,he ought to be invited and tried out in camp. Like Rohr has said and like he has agreed, there are no guarantees. If the man shows up and "shows up" he gets a jersey. If he doesn't, at least we know we explored the option. Much as we may want to de-emphasize experience(especially at the position), I bring to reference the recent Nigerian example. It was almost an unrequited battle for the revered late Coach Keshi to invite Yobo and Odemwingie to the 2014 World Cup team. Recall they both hardly played in the qualifiers. It turned out that they both played very crucial roles in the World Cup campaign. Odemwingie was very instrumental to our midfield and attack(he scored a goal), and Yobo ably marshalled the defence. Their experience spanning two World cups and three to four Nations Cups was brought to bear on the team from what we saw on the field and what we did not get to see in the locker room.
I disagree. If the rule is play or you don't play then stick to the rules. All the players and fans know Vince is not active. Then he's invited. How do we know it's not agents at work or brown envelope?
If the rules can be circumvented for Vince then why not for someone else?
Do we even know the psychological effect of Vince showing up and picking up a shirt? Why should others go the extra mile when they can easily be dumped or walk in anytime and pick up a plane ticket?

The minimum criteria should be met. Vince is not even on the bench.
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

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pajimoh wrote:
Obong wrote:
oloye wrote:The only thing i have to say about this debate of bringing back Vince is....i want a list of all these people so that i can monitor their posituon after the WC.

If Vince is not playing regularly he is not good enough for the WC. And i know what these people will be saying if that truth about his non playing time comes back to haunt the team.
oloye, I agree with you. My contention has been that considering the goalkeeping situation we are in, and considering Vince's willingness to return,he ought to be invited and tried out in camp. Like Rohr has said and like he has agreed, there are no guarantees. If the man shows up and "shows up" he gets a jersey. If he doesn't, at least we know we explored the option. Much as we may want to de-emphasize experience(especially at the position), I bring to reference the recent Nigerian example. It was almost an unrequited battle for the revered late Coach Keshi to invite Yobo and Odemwingie to the 2014 World Cup team. Recall they both hardly played in the qualifiers. It turned out that they both played very crucial roles in the World Cup campaign. Odemwingie was very instrumental to our midfield and attack(he scored a goal), and Yobo ably marshalled the defence. Their experience spanning two World cups and three to four Nations Cups was brought to bear on the team from what we saw on the field and what we did not get to see in the locker room.
I disagree. If the rule is play or you don't play then stick to the rules. All the players and fans know Vince is not active. Then he's invited. How do we know it's not agents at work or brown envelope?
If the rules can be circumvented for Vince then why not for someone else?
Do we even know the psychological effect of Vince showing up and picking up a shirt? Why should others go the extra mile when they can easily be dumped or walk in anytime and pick up a plane ticket?

The minimum criteria should be met. Vince is not even on the bench.
But Rohr arguably relaxed his own rule with his position on Musa. Of course exceptions can exist in special circumstances and one could argue that the GK position is one area where an exception should I apply.

My own view is that all players need to play regularly to have a chance of making the squad.
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by pajimoh »

Obong wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Enugu II wrote:
john12 wrote:Okay, Obong just confirmed that Vincent has already come out of retirement and it’s in communication with rohr in regards to it. Well, as long as Vincent is fit presently he is our best keeper. My only issues with Vincent was retirement issues but obong claims that’s not a problem anymore
He has to start playing games, according to the manager.
We are almost into March. Season in Europe ends in April/May.
He last played in a 2-0 defeat away at Rennes last year April.
Correction. His come back match was in December 2017. They won 3-1 and he saved a penalty. Ideally, he should get games under his belt ahead of our camp. If that doesn't happen, the aftermath will be up to Rohr.

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Bruv, stop feeding me soup. :tic: I'm not having it. A comeback match for u17's, really? After that game what has he done? Is he going to be facing u17's in Russia?
It's unfortunate that Vince is inactive. This is the time we need to apply the rules, even at the expense of Vince. The likes of Musa are moving to get playing time yet you want a player that has been out of competitive action for almost a year be considered? Mba
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by Obong »

pajimoh wrote:
Obong wrote:
oloye wrote:The only thing i have to say about this debate of bringing back Vince is....i want a list of all these people so that i can monitor their posituon after the WC.

If Vince is not playing regularly he is not good enough for the WC. And i know what these people will be saying if that truth about his non playing time comes back to haunt the team.
oloye, I agree with you. My contention has been that considering the goalkeeping situation we are in, and considering Vince's willingness to return,he ought to be invited and tried out in camp. Like Rohr has said and like he has agreed, there are no guarantees. If the man shows up and "shows up" he gets a jersey. If he doesn't, at least we know we explored the option. Much as we may want to de-emphasize experience(especially at the position), I bring to reference the recent Nigerian example. It was almost an unrequited battle for the revered late Coach Keshi to invite Yobo and Odemwingie to the 2014 World Cup team. Recall they both hardly played in the qualifiers. It turned out that they both played very crucial roles in the World Cup campaign. Odemwingie was very instrumental to our midfield and attack(he scored a goal), and Yobo ably marshalled the defence. Their experience spanning two World cups and three to four Nations Cups was brought to bear on the team from what we saw on the field and what we did not get to see in the locker room.
I disagree. If the rule is play or you don't play then stick to the rules. All the players and fans know Vince is not active. Then he's invited. How do we know it's not agents at work or brown envelope?
If the rules can be circumvented for Vince then why not for someone else?
Do we even know the psychological effect of Vince showing up and picking up a shirt? Why should others go the extra mile when they can easily be dumped or walk in anytime and pick up a plane ticket?

The minimum criteria should be met. Vince is not even on the bench.
Vince's situation is arguably a special case. His proven abilities and our real goalkeeping mini-crisis may call for an exemption. We are dealing with professional footballers, not amateurs. They know how a World Cup team is assembled. The venerated Nigerian 1994 World Cup team had Chidi Nwanu and Mike Emenalo get on the team without being part of the Nations Cup winning team and being part of the qualifiers. We saw what they brought to the team. We wouldn't have witnessed Roger Milla's famous Makossa dance goal celebration in 1990 if he had been omitted from the squad on similar sentiments. The psychological effect of a team that is ready to face the World's best is more important.
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by pajimoh »

The YeyeMan wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Obong wrote:
oloye wrote:The only thing i have to say about this debate of bringing back Vince is....i want a list of all these people so that i can monitor their posituon after the WC.

If Vince is not playing regularly he is not good enough for the WC. And i know what these people will be saying if that truth about his non playing time comes back to haunt the team.
oloye, I agree with you. My contention has been that considering the goalkeeping situation we are in, and considering Vince's willingness to return,he ought to be invited and tried out in camp. Like Rohr has said and like he has agreed, there are no guarantees. If the man shows up and "shows up" he gets a jersey. If he doesn't, at least we know we explored the option. Much as we may want to de-emphasize experience(especially at the position), I bring to reference the recent Nigerian example. It was almost an unrequited battle for the revered late Coach Keshi to invite Yobo and Odemwingie to the 2014 World Cup team. Recall they both hardly played in the qualifiers. It turned out that they both played very crucial roles in the World Cup campaign. Odemwingie was very instrumental to our midfield and attack(he scored a goal), and Yobo ably marshalled the defence. Their experience spanning two World cups and three to four Nations Cups was brought to bear on the team from what we saw on the field and what we did not get to see in the locker room.
I disagree. If the rule is play or you don't play then stick to the rules. All the players and fans know Vince is not active. Then he's invited. How do we know it's not agents at work or brown envelope?
If the rules can be circumvented for Vince then why not for someone else?
Do we even know the psychological effect of Vince showing up and picking up a shirt? Why should others go the extra mile when they can easily be dumped or walk in anytime and pick up a plane ticket?

The minimum criteria should be met. Vince is not even on the bench.
But Rohr arguably relaxed his own rule with his position on Musa. Of course exceptions can exist in special circumstances and one could argue that the GK position is one area where an exception should I apply.

My own view is that all players need to play regularly to have a chance of making the squad.
Where is Musa now? He got the message loud and clear and he wasn't even returning from injury and still played the odd games. Let someone answer how many competitive games Vince has played since April 2017 when he last played for Lille's senior team?
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by pajimoh »

Obong wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Obong wrote:
oloye wrote:The only thing i have to say about this debate of bringing back Vince is....i want a list of all these people so that i can monitor their posituon after the WC.

If Vince is not playing regularly he is not good enough for the WC. And i know what these people will be saying if that truth about his non playing time comes back to haunt the team.
oloye, I agree with you. My contention has been that considering the goalkeeping situation we are in, and considering Vince's willingness to return,he ought to be invited and tried out in camp. Like Rohr has said and like he has agreed, there are no guarantees. If the man shows up and "shows up" he gets a jersey. If he doesn't, at least we know we explored the option. Much as we may want to de-emphasize experience(especially at the position), I bring to reference the recent Nigerian example. It was almost an unrequited battle for the revered late Coach Keshi to invite Yobo and Odemwingie to the 2014 World Cup team. Recall they both hardly played in the qualifiers. It turned out that they both played very crucial roles in the World Cup campaign. Odemwingie was very instrumental to our midfield and attack(he scored a goal), and Yobo ably marshalled the defence. Their experience spanning two World cups and three to four Nations Cups was brought to bear on the team from what we saw on the field and what we did not get to see in the locker room.
I disagree. If the rule is play or you don't play then stick to the rules. All the players and fans know Vince is not active. Then he's invited. How do we know it's not agents at work or brown envelope?
If the rules can be circumvented for Vince then why not for someone else?
Do we even know the psychological effect of Vince showing up and picking up a shirt? Why should others go the extra mile when they can easily be dumped or walk in anytime and pick up a plane ticket?

The minimum criteria should be met. Vince is not even on the bench.
Vince's situation is arguably a special case. His proven abilities and our real goalkeeping mini-crisis may call for an exemption. We are dealing with professional footballers, not amateurs. They know how a World Cup team is assembled. The venerated Nigerian 1994 World Cup team had Chidi Nwanu and Mike Emenalo get on the team without being part of the Nations Cup winning team and being part of the qualifiers. We saw what they brought to the team. We wouldn't have witnessed Roger Milla's famous Makossa dance goal celebration in 1990 if he had been omitted from the squad on similar sentiments. The psychological effect of a team that is ready to face the World's best is more important.
Chief, there's nothing special about Vince's case. We are the ones making it a special case. Rules are there to guide us. It can be to our advantage one minute and against us the next but it serves us well to follow rules.
Believe it or not, goalkeepers NEED competitive games to stay sharp. Not just training. We time freeze Vince performances and think or w we can get that again, in the meantime ignoring all laid down guidelines for team eligibility.

When it comes to the SE, we've always broken every rule that most successful nations don't break. We sack managers and hire new ones close to tournaments. .We invite new sets of players as if they can form a team in a week. We call players from their holidays in the last minute.
I don't know which serious footballing nation will qualify with one goalie and call out one that has been dormant close to a year to take his place.
Even to our own detriment, lets start sticking to rules. It would help us more Tha it would hurt us
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by The YeyeMan »

pajimoh wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Obong wrote:
oloye wrote:The only thing i have to say about this debate of bringing back Vince is....i want a list of all these people so that i can monitor their posituon after the WC.

If Vince is not playing regularly he is not good enough for the WC. And i know what these people will be saying if that truth about his non playing time comes back to haunt the team.
oloye, I agree with you. My contention has been that considering the goalkeeping situation we are in, and considering Vince's willingness to return,he ought to be invited and tried out in camp. Like Rohr has said and like he has agreed, there are no guarantees. If the man shows up and "shows up" he gets a jersey. If he doesn't, at least we know we explored the option. Much as we may want to de-emphasize experience(especially at the position), I bring to reference the recent Nigerian example. It was almost an unrequited battle for the revered late Coach Keshi to invite Yobo and Odemwingie to the 2014 World Cup team. Recall they both hardly played in the qualifiers. It turned out that they both played very crucial roles in the World Cup campaign. Odemwingie was very instrumental to our midfield and attack(he scored a goal), and Yobo ably marshalled the defence. Their experience spanning two World cups and three to four Nations Cups was brought to bear on the team from what we saw on the field and what we did not get to see in the locker room.
I disagree. If the rule is play or you don't play then stick to the rules. All the players and fans know Vince is not active. Then he's invited. How do we know it's not agents at work or brown envelope?
If the rules can be circumvented for Vince then why not for someone else?
Do we even know the psychological effect of Vince showing up and picking up a shirt? Why should others go the extra mile when they can easily be dumped or walk in anytime and pick up a plane ticket?

The minimum criteria should be met. Vince is not even on the bench.
But Rohr arguably relaxed his own rule with his position on Musa. Of course exceptions can exist in special circumstances and one could argue that the GK position is one area where an exception should I apply.

My own view is that all players need to play regularly to have a chance of making the squad.
Where is Musa now? He got the message loud and clear and he wasn't even returning from injury and still played the odd games. Let someone answer how many competitive games Vince has played since April 2017 when he last played for Lille's senior team?
You've missed my point (or what Rohr said). Musa made the last few call ups despite playing no league games and only a single League Cup game between August and December 2017; yet Rohr said his WC experience is needed.

That showed me Rohr can be flexible in certain situations - I personally think Musa shouldn't have been selected as he was seeing very limited playing time. The good news is that he's now playing regularly.
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by pajimoh »

The YeyeMan wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Obong wrote:
oloye wrote:The only thing i have to say about this debate of bringing back Vince is....i want a list of all these people so that i can monitor their posituon after the WC.

If Vince is not playing regularly he is not good enough for the WC. And i know what these people will be saying if that truth about his non playing time comes back to haunt the team.
oloye, I agree with you. My contention has been that considering the goalkeeping situation we are in, and considering Vince's willingness to return,he ought to be invited and tried out in camp. Like Rohr has said and like he has agreed, there are no guarantees. If the man shows up and "shows up" he gets a jersey. If he doesn't, at least we know we explored the option. Much as we may want to de-emphasize experience(especially at the position), I bring to reference the recent Nigerian example. It was almost an unrequited battle for the revered late Coach Keshi to invite Yobo and Odemwingie to the 2014 World Cup team. Recall they both hardly played in the qualifiers. It turned out that they both played very crucial roles in the World Cup campaign. Odemwingie was very instrumental to our midfield and attack(he scored a goal), and Yobo ably marshalled the defence. Their experience spanning two World cups and three to four Nations Cups was brought to bear on the team from what we saw on the field and what we did not get to see in the locker room.
I disagree. If the rule is play or you don't play then stick to the rules. All the players and fans know Vince is not active. Then he's invited. How do we know it's not agents at work or brown envelope?
If the rules can be circumvented for Vince then why not for someone else?
Do we even know the psychological effect of Vince showing up and picking up a shirt? Why should others go the extra mile when they can easily be dumped or walk in anytime and pick up a plane ticket?

The minimum criteria should be met. Vince is not even on the bench.
But Rohr arguably relaxed his own rule with his position on Musa. Of course exceptions can exist in special circumstances and one could argue that the GK position is one area where an exception should I apply.

My own view is that all players need to play regularly to have a chance of making the squad.
Where is Musa now? He got the message loud and clear and he wasn't even returning from injury and still played the odd games. Let someone answer how many competitive games Vince has played since April 2017 when he last played for Lille's senior team?
You've missed my point (or what Rohr said). Musa made the last few call ups despite playing no league games and only a single League Cup game between August and December 2017; yet Rohr said his WC experience is needed.

That showed me Rohr can be flexible in certain situations - I personally think Musa shouldn't have been selected as he was seeing very limited playing time. The good news is that he's now playing regularly.
This is the point I'm trying to make. You are saying Rohr was flexible with Musa so he should also be flexible with Vince. Then someone else would say I've been out for 2 years - be flexible with me as you were with Vince.
Others would also argue that Musa did not retire, neither was he injured and needed rehabilitation for about 6 months. Plus Musa was in camp most times for the coaching crew to take a look at him. Plus, Musa has at least played for club and country in the past 10 months.
Like you said, maybe Musa should not have been invited but inviting Vince means you might as well do away with the rules
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

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What a damn shame! People thinking about a player and their own satisfaction instead of the team. A player is not playing and you want him on the team. That is outrageous incompetence to even suggest it. We’re not even talking a player playing and being left out. So disappointed that this hasn’t died down. Why not be a man and take the ego hit? You can’t have such a player on the team. Put on your management cap for a minute if you have one. This is how people mismanage succession and hold on to something they do for too long. Get comfortable being uncomfortable, that’s the difference between those that achieve greatly and those that don’t. Enyeama comes with no guarantees. Think about the team!
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by The YeyeMan »

pajimoh wrote:This is the point I'm trying to make. You are saying Rohr was flexible with Musa so he should also be flexible with Vince. Then someone else would say I've been out for 2 years - be flexible with me as you were with Vince.
That's not what I'm saying. I've already said that if it were left to me all invited players should be playing regularly. I wrote that in a post you responded to....

I'm looking at Rohr's own words - which haven't always fully matched his actions. I'm not advocating for any player to make the team, I'm simply saying that Rohr has already allowed himself to make an exception to his rule.
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by Obong »

pajimoh wrote:
Obong wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Obong wrote:
oloye wrote:The only thing i have to say about this debate of bringing back Vince is....i want a list of all these people so that i can monitor their posituon after the WC.

If Vince is not playing regularly he is not good enough for the WC. And i know what these people will be saying if that truth about his non playing time comes back to haunt the team.
oloye, I agree with you. My contention has been that considering the goalkeeping situation we are in, and considering Vince's willingness to return,he ought to be invited and tried out in camp. Like Rohr has said and like he has agreed, there are no guarantees. If the man shows up and "shows up" he gets a jersey. If he doesn't, at least we know we explored the option. Much as we may want to de-emphasize experience(especially at the position), I bring to reference the recent Nigerian example. It was almost an unrequited battle for the revered late Coach Keshi to invite Yobo and Odemwingie to the 2014 World Cup team. Recall they both hardly played in the qualifiers. It turned out that they both played very crucial roles in the World Cup campaign. Odemwingie was very instrumental to our midfield and attack(he scored a goal), and Yobo ably marshalled the defence. Their experience spanning two World cups and three to four Nations Cups was brought to bear on the team from what we saw on the field and what we did not get to see in the locker room.
I disagree. If the rule is play or you don't play then stick to the rules. All the players and fans know Vince is not active. Then he's invited. How do we know it's not agents at work or brown envelope?
If the rules can be circumvented for Vince then why not for someone else?
Do we even know the psychological effect of Vince showing up and picking up a shirt? Why should others go the extra mile when they can easily be dumped or walk in anytime and pick up a plane ticket?

The minimum criteria should be met. Vince is not even on the bench.
Vince's situation is arguably a special case. His proven abilities and our real goalkeeping mini-crisis may call for an exemption. We are dealing with professional footballers, not amateurs. They know how a World Cup team is assembled. The venerated Nigerian 1994 World Cup team had Chidi Nwanu and Mike Emenalo get on the team without being part of the Nations Cup winning team and being part of the qualifiers. We saw what they brought to the team. We wouldn't have witnessed Roger Milla's famous Makossa dance goal celebration in 1990 if he had been omitted from the squad on similar sentiments. The psychological effect of a team that is ready to face the World's best is more important.
Chief, there's nothing special about Vince's case. We are the ones making it a special case. Rules are there to guide us. It can be to our advantage one minute and against us the next but it serves us well to follow rules.
Believe it or not, goalkeepers NEED competitive games to stay sharp. Not just training. We time freeze Vince performances and think or w we can get that again, in the meantime ignoring all laid down guidelines for team eligibility.

When it comes to the SE, we've always broken every rule that most successful nations don't break. We sack managers and hire new ones close to tournaments. .We invite new sets of players as if they can form a team in a week. We call players from their holidays in the last minute.
I don't know which serious footballing nation will qualify with one goalie and call out one that has been dormant close to a year to take his place.
Even to our own detriment, lets start sticking to rules. It would help us more Tha it would hurt us
My man pajimoh, you're entitled to your legitimate and cogent opinion. However, the argument that Vince's is not a special one flies in the face of our current reality. Without doubt, I am confident in our team as presently composed IN ALL PHASES(defence, midfield, attack), except in the goalkeeping department. Even, taking your "time freeze' contention, we cannot go wrong with exploring that option. Again, I want Vince to be tried out in camp, not anointed the starting keeper. If he passes muster, then he goes to Russia. I recall that in law school, my first professor told me that laws were meant to guide the wise and sanction the fools. He also explained that laws are meant to be broken. That's the only way to test the efficacy or otherwise of those laws. In other words, we can flex some laws and rules to fulfill its legislative intent or to satisfy public policy or greater good(which the current rule or law may not immediately fulfill). Just like I stand by Ahmed Musa's continued invitation because of certain things he brings to the team, I trust Rohr's judgment on this. And, Thanks for your civility and brilliant points.
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by Enugu II »

The YeyeMan wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Obong wrote:
oloye wrote:The only thing i have to say about this debate of bringing back Vince is....i want a list of all these people so that i can monitor their posituon after the WC.

If Vince is not playing regularly he is not good enough for the WC. And i know what these people will be saying if that truth about his non playing time comes back to haunt the team.
oloye, I agree with you. My contention has been that considering the goalkeeping situation we are in, and considering Vince's willingness to return,he ought to be invited and tried out in camp. Like Rohr has said and like he has agreed, there are no guarantees. If the man shows up and "shows up" he gets a jersey. If he doesn't, at least we know we explored the option. Much as we may want to de-emphasize experience(especially at the position), I bring to reference the recent Nigerian example. It was almost an unrequited battle for the revered late Coach Keshi to invite Yobo and Odemwingie to the 2014 World Cup team. Recall they both hardly played in the qualifiers. It turned out that they both played very crucial roles in the World Cup campaign. Odemwingie was very instrumental to our midfield and attack(he scored a goal), and Yobo ably marshalled the defence. Their experience spanning two World cups and three to four Nations Cups was brought to bear on the team from what we saw on the field and what we did not get to see in the locker room.
I disagree. If the rule is play or you don't play then stick to the rules. All the players and fans know Vince is not active. Then he's invited. How do we know it's not agents at work or brown envelope?
If the rules can be circumvented for Vince then why not for someone else?
Do we even know the psychological effect of Vince showing up and picking up a shirt? Why should others go the extra mile when they can easily be dumped or walk in anytime and pick up a plane ticket?

The minimum criteria should be met. Vince is not even on the bench.
But Rohr arguably relaxed his own rule with his position on Musa. Of course exceptions can exist in special circumstances and one could argue that the GK position is one area where an exception should I apply.

My own view is that all players need to play regularly to have a chance of making the squad.
Where is Musa now? He got the message loud and clear and he wasn't even returning from injury and still played the odd games. Let someone answer how many competitive games Vince has played since April 2017 when he last played for Lille's senior team?
You've missed my point (or what Rohr said). Musa made the last few call ups despite playing no league games and only a single League Cup game between August and December 2017; yet Rohr said his WC experience is needed.

That showed me Rohr can be flexible in certain situations - I personally think Musa shouldn't have been selected as he was seeing very limited playing time. The good news is that he's now playing regularly.

Yeyeman,

While I am one of those who support Vince to be back, your comparison of his situation with Musa fall my hand oo! Musa had limited playing time with the main squad of Leicester and you are comparing that with one game Vince played with the U23? If that is the case then Musa can be stated as playing regularly while at Leicester because he was playing with the U23 regularly as I understand it. Further, Rohr has had Musa in his system, which isn't the case with Vince. Of course, we know where Musa is right now and where Vince is, big difference.

To me, I think it is the wrong comparison. For me, Vince should be called back because of the gaping issue between the posts. Thus, Rohr's rule of playing regularly should be waived for him based on his record with Nigeria, the problem we have in goal, and the fact that Vince can be better assessed while in camp. That is just my opinion.
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

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Obong wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Obong wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Obong wrote:
oloye wrote:The only thing i have to say about this debate of bringing back Vince is....i want a list of all these people so that i can monitor their posituon after the WC.

If Vince is not playing regularly he is not good enough for the WC. And i know what these people will be saying if that truth about his non playing time comes back to haunt the team.
oloye, I agree with you. My contention has been that considering the goalkeeping situation we are in, and considering Vince's willingness to return,he ought to be invited and tried out in camp. Like Rohr has said and like he has agreed, there are no guarantees. If the man shows up and "shows up" he gets a jersey. If he doesn't, at least we know we explored the option. Much as we may want to de-emphasize experience(especially at the position), I bring to reference the recent Nigerian example. It was almost an unrequited battle for the revered late Coach Keshi to invite Yobo and Odemwingie to the 2014 World Cup team. Recall they both hardly played in the qualifiers. It turned out that they both played very crucial roles in the World Cup campaign. Odemwingie was very instrumental to our midfield and attack(he scored a goal), and Yobo ably marshalled the defence. Their experience spanning two World cups and three to four Nations Cups was brought to bear on the team from what we saw on the field and what we did not get to see in the locker room.
I disagree. If the rule is play or you don't play then stick to the rules. All the players and fans know Vince is not active. Then he's invited. How do we know it's not agents at work or brown envelope?
If the rules can be circumvented for Vince then why not for someone else?
Do we even know the psychological effect of Vince showing up and picking up a shirt? Why should others go the extra mile when they can easily be dumped or walk in anytime and pick up a plane ticket?

The minimum criteria should be met. Vince is not even on the bench.
Vince's situation is arguably a special case. His proven abilities and our real goalkeeping mini-crisis may call for an exemption. We are dealing with professional footballers, not amateurs. They know how a World Cup team is assembled. The venerated Nigerian 1994 World Cup team had Chidi Nwanu and Mike Emenalo get on the team without being part of the Nations Cup winning team and being part of the qualifiers. We saw what they brought to the team. We wouldn't have witnessed Roger Milla's famous Makossa dance goal celebration in 1990 if he had been omitted from the squad on similar sentiments. The psychological effect of a team that is ready to face the World's best is more important.
Chief, there's nothing special about Vince's case. We are the ones making it a special case. Rules are there to guide us. It can be to our advantage one minute and against us the next but it serves us well to follow rules.
Believe it or not, goalkeepers NEED competitive games to stay sharp. Not just training. We time freeze Vince performances and think or w we can get that again, in the meantime ignoring all laid down guidelines for team eligibility.

When it comes to the SE, we've always broken every rule that most successful nations don't break. We sack managers and hire new ones close to tournaments. .We invite new sets of players as if they can form a team in a week. We call players from their holidays in the last minute.
I don't know which serious footballing nation will qualify with one goalie and call out one that has been dormant close to a year to take his place.
Even to our own detriment, lets start sticking to rules. It would help us more Tha it would hurt us
My man pajimoh, you're entitled to your legitimate and cogent opinion. However, the argument that Vince's is not a special one flies in the face of our current reality. Without doubt, I am confident in our team as presently composed IN ALL PHASES(defence, midfield, attack), except in the goalkeeping department. Even, taking your "time freeze' contention, we cannot go wrong with exploring that option. Again, I want Vince to be tried out in camp, not anointed the starting keeper. If he passes muster, then he goes to Russia. I recall that in law school, my first professor told me that laws were meant to guide the wise and sanction the fools. He also explained that laws are meant to be broken. That's the only way to test the efficacy or otherwise of those laws. In other words, we can flex some laws and rules to fulfill its legislative intent or to satisfy public policy or greater good(which the current rule or law may not immediately fulfill). Just like I stand by Ahmed Musa's continued invitation because of certain things he brings to the team, I trust Rohr's judgment on this. And, Thanks for your civility and brilliant points.
Obong, what current reality? It's your reality that our goalkeepers are bad and only Vince could possibly save us. My current reality is these are the guys that qualified us and met the rules for selection. They will achieve what they are good enough to achieve. Lets work within the confines of the rule.
If you have a worker that is very good but the rule states he/she must be certified but the person is not then what do you do?
The simple fact that you can invite a dormant player to fight for a shirt flies in the face of what we are trying to do with the team. The fact that this player hasn't been competitive for close to a year is a kick in the goolies.
Bend the rules today, break em tomorrow
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by The YeyeMan »

Enugu II wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
pajimoh wrote:
Obong wrote:
oloye wrote:The only thing i have to say about this debate of bringing back Vince is....i want a list of all these people so that i can monitor their posituon after the WC.

If Vince is not playing regularly he is not good enough for the WC. And i know what these people will be saying if that truth about his non playing time comes back to haunt the team.
oloye, I agree with you. My contention has been that considering the goalkeeping situation we are in, and considering Vince's willingness to return,he ought to be invited and tried out in camp. Like Rohr has said and like he has agreed, there are no guarantees. If the man shows up and "shows up" he gets a jersey. If he doesn't, at least we know we explored the option. Much as we may want to de-emphasize experience(especially at the position), I bring to reference the recent Nigerian example. It was almost an unrequited battle for the revered late Coach Keshi to invite Yobo and Odemwingie to the 2014 World Cup team. Recall they both hardly played in the qualifiers. It turned out that they both played very crucial roles in the World Cup campaign. Odemwingie was very instrumental to our midfield and attack(he scored a goal), and Yobo ably marshalled the defence. Their experience spanning two World cups and three to four Nations Cups was brought to bear on the team from what we saw on the field and what we did not get to see in the locker room.
I disagree. If the rule is play or you don't play then stick to the rules. All the players and fans know Vince is not active. Then he's invited. How do we know it's not agents at work or brown envelope?
If the rules can be circumvented for Vince then why not for someone else?
Do we even know the psychological effect of Vince showing up and picking up a shirt? Why should others go the extra mile when they can easily be dumped or walk in anytime and pick up a plane ticket?

The minimum criteria should be met. Vince is not even on the bench.
But Rohr arguably relaxed his own rule with his position on Musa. Of course exceptions can exist in special circumstances and one could argue that the GK position is one area where an exception should I apply.

My own view is that all players need to play regularly to have a chance of making the squad.
Where is Musa now? He got the message loud and clear and he wasn't even returning from injury and still played the odd games. Let someone answer how many competitive games Vince has played since April 2017 when he last played for Lille's senior team?
You've missed my point (or what Rohr said). Musa made the last few call ups despite playing no league games and only a single League Cup game between August and December 2017; yet Rohr said his WC experience is needed.

That showed me Rohr can be flexible in certain situations - I personally think Musa shouldn't have been selected as he was seeing very limited playing time. The good news is that he's now playing regularly.

Yeyeman,

While I am one of those who support Vince to be back, your comparison of his situation with Musa fall my hand oo! Musa had limited playing time with the main squad of Leicester and you are comparing that with one game Vince played with the U23? If that is the case then Musa can be stated as playing regularly while at Leicester because he was playing with the U23 regularly as I understand it. Further, Rohr has had Musa in his system, which isn't the case with Vince. Of course, we know where Musa is right now and where Vince is, big difference.

To me, I think it is the wrong comparison. For me, Vince should be called back because of the gaping issue between the posts. Thus, Rohr's rule of playing regularly should be waived for him based on his record with Nigeria, the problem we have in goal, and the fact that Vince can be better assessed while in camp. That is just my opinion.
Oga EII,

I'm saying neither of them should have been selected. Musa had played 1 League Cup game and 1 reserve (U-23) game and that was considered enough playing time for him to earn selection for the last set of fixtures. Btw, Musa wasn't playing regularly - not even with the reserve team.

Ultimately, we're saying that Rohr has allowed himself room for manoeuvre and it wouldn't surprise me if exceptions to this "rule" of playing regularly.
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by The YeyeMan »

pajimoh wrote:Obong, what current reality? It's your reality that our goalkeepers are bad and only Vince could possibly save us. My current reality is these are the guys that qualified us and met the rules for selection. They will achieve what they are good enough to achieve. Lets work within the confines of the rule.
If you have a worker that is very good but the rule states he/she must be certified but the person is not then what do you do?
The simple fact that you can invite a dormant player to fight for a shirt flies in the face of what we are trying to do with the team. The fact that this player hasn't been competitive for close to a year is a kick in the goolies.
Bend the rules today, break em tomorrow
The reality is that our first choice keeper during the qualifiers, Carl Ikeme, is unavailable through illness. There wouldn't be as strong a clamour for Enyeama's return if Ikeme was available. There can't be a serious Nigerian supporter who's content with the GK situation at the moment.
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by pajimoh »

The YeyeMan wrote:
pajimoh wrote:Obong, what current reality? It's your reality that our goalkeepers are bad and only Vince could possibly save us. My current reality is these are the guys that qualified us and met the rules for selection. They will achieve what they are good enough to achieve. Lets work within the confines of the rule.
If you have a worker that is very good but the rule states he/she must be certified but the person is not then what do you do?
The simple fact that you can invite a dormant player to fight for a shirt flies in the face of what we are trying to do with the team. The fact that this player hasn't been competitive for close to a year is a kick in the goolies.
Bend the rules today, break em tomorrow
The reality is that our first choice keeper during the qualifiers, Carl Ikeme, is unavailable through illness. There wouldn't be as strong a clamour for Enyeama's return if Ikeme was available. There can't be a serious Nigerian supporter who's content with the GK situation at the moment.
No the reality is Karl, as a result of his unfortunate situation, could not man the post but we did not panic and call for Vince because there was no one else. We got the job done with someone else. So the difference in your mind is that these guys are not good for the wc and a dormant Vince is. That is the sign of someone afraid of failing. You cannot be successful if you're afraid to fail.
What if Vince is called back,selected but got injured in the first game and out of the tournament?
What if Vince proved to be very rusty beyond our comprehension, who next?
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by Odas »

felarey wrote: What a damn shame! People thinking about a player and their own satisfaction instead of the team. A player is not playing and you want him on the team. That is outrageous incompetence to even suggest it. We’re not even talking a player playing and being left out. So disappointed that this hasn’t died down. Why not be a man and take the ego hit? You can’t have such a player on the team. Put on your management cap for a minute if you have one. This is how people mismanage succession and hold on to something they do for too long. Get comfortable being uncomfortable, that’s the difference between those that achieve greatly and those that don’t. Enyeama comes with no guarantees. Think about the team!
Felarey: Here you come! I was beginning to wonder and almost asked where you are and, why the long silence in all of these. Anyway; welcome, Sir!

As to the debate at hand, please "told dem" (the ones who want Enyeama back in the team), as Zebrudayia would say :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Last edited by Odas on Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I WILL STILL INVITE VINCENT ENYEAMA TO SE CAMP

Post by The YeyeMan »

pajimoh wrote:
The YeyeMan wrote:
pajimoh wrote:Obong, what current reality? It's your reality that our goalkeepers are bad and only Vince could possibly save us. My current reality is these are the guys that qualified us and met the rules for selection. They will achieve what they are good enough to achieve. Lets work within the confines of the rule.
If you have a worker that is very good but the rule states he/she must be certified but the person is not then what do you do?
The simple fact that you can invite a dormant player to fight for a shirt flies in the face of what we are trying to do with the team. The fact that this player hasn't been competitive for close to a year is a kick in the goolies.
Bend the rules today, break em tomorrow
The reality is that our first choice keeper during the qualifiers, Carl Ikeme, is unavailable through illness. There wouldn't be as strong a clamour for Enyeama's return if Ikeme was available. There can't be a serious Nigerian supporter who's content with the GK situation at the moment.
No the reality is Karl, as a result of his unfortunate situation, could not man the post but we did not panic and call for Vince because there was no one else. We got the job done with someone else. So the difference in your mind is that these guys are not good for the wc and a dormant Vince is. That is the sign of someone afraid of failing. You cannot be successful if you're afraid to fail.
What if Vince is called back,selected but got injured in the first game and out of the tournament?
What if Vince proved to be very rusty beyond our comprehension, who next?
Pajimoh, where have I said that a dormant Vince is good enough? I've told you THREE times now that only players seeing regular action should make it in my view.

Btw, what if Vince is called up and doesn't prove to be rusty? What will you say then? :D
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