why I love footie...

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

Congregation of Ancient men...

My broda you missed out big time. 1982 world cup was memorable for many reasons beyond Brazil vs Italy. You have to go back in time to get it.

Anybody wey no watch 1982 WC never watch WC be dat, IMHO.

See TALENT (not "artificial" players of nowadays o ).

Young Maradona, Ardiles, Passarella, Valdano, Kempes, Diaz, Zico, Eder, Socrates, Falcao, Zoff, Gentile, Rossi, Tardelli, Cabrini, Rummenige, Fischer, Schumacher, Platini, Tigana, Amoros, Giresse, Littbarski, Breitner, Tresor, Roger Milla, Nkono, Abega, Ebongue, Rabah Madjer, Belloumi, Fergani, Kouchi, etc.

[airwolex]

t's hard to compare eras but I've seen nothing that suggests Messi wouldn't have handled that era as cooly as he has handled the present. Maradona took a major pounding and learned to cope, what exactly makes you think Messi wouldn't have done same?

In 62, Pele was kicked so badly and injured so egregiously without any punishment to the perpetrator he considered retiring from International football.

Like I said, Maradonna had to physically fight defenders in La Liga that wanted to end his career...he said it himself that he felt some people were out to maim him.

Messi was abused for his non performance in the Copa De America, he retired. He has been to 3 finals and has disappeared. We are all lucky he is playing in an era whereby fifa has reduced butchers disguised as defenders so we can see what a truly special player he is. I doubt if he could cope back then. The likes of Pele and Maradona were not only skillful but tough as nails. I just don't see Messi in the same light.

The Pele and Maradona stories are true and great but they don't have any bearing on the present and Messi. It's possible that they could have been all that and Messi could have been that too, we just will never know.

A few points on the Messi examples you've given....Messi retired because the Argentine FA was/is run by a bunch of crooked wretches and he was tired of giving all for that and getting used and abused by them (he wasn't the only one who quit, there were other senior players who quit or where going to before the FA started begging and sent Maradona to help them beg too). Add in the fact that Messi is undeniably not as loved as Maradona was. He left Argentina very young, he's almost as much a Catalan as Argentinean. Leaving all that muck behind had nothing to do with a weak heart or stomach for the fight, sometimes when you know what's going on behind the scenes and you have the senior boys with you, it's easy to walk...Messi doesn't have to deal with any AFA issues (personally I think he shouldn't have done it but I understand why he did, the AFA was properly bad). So on point #1, I disagree.

He disappeared in 3 finals? How? He made clear cut passes that Gonzalo Higuain failed to put away in all three finals. Maradona went to back to back world cup finals in 86 and 90, he didnt score in either one. He had one assist (that great pass to Burruchaga in 86), thankfully Burruchaga was a proper player unlike Higuain (half joking) so how do you credit Maradona here and debit Messi? On point #2, I again disagree.

FIFA advanced the game. Again, this is why I hate comparing eras. Players of today are fitter and arguably yes, stronger than the past players, it's a different sport. The access to knowledge of their bodies is simply on a plane those 'ancients' never had. I know the thing to do is talk about how great things were in the old days and how men were men, etc but the guys now are flat-out better equipped to be better and get more out of their bodies. They have technology that allows them do things older guys couldn't do. Back in the days of the 'hard men', players and coaches go siddon dey shack and smoke cigar for dressing room. It's a different world. I have no doubt the present Messi would have coped. None. The defenders of today try their best to push the envelope when it comes to hacking him down, they ride the line as much as possible. The kid may be small but he is not weak. Not physically, not mentally. You don't become by far the best of your generation by being those things. Not possible. Then again, if he existed back then, he likely wouldn't have had access to the technology that allowed him grow to be big enough to succeed now (he's still small but he was properly tiny without the medical help from Barca).

I don't want this to be a Messi v Maradona argument because both men bossed their eras but these comparisons invariably end up being just that. Both superb players who'd both thrive in either era. By the way, you don't see me saying Maradona would have failed in this era even though there could be an argument for that. Look at Ronaldinho who partied hard like Maradona did, he suffered some from it in a sense because while we all know he is a legend, he's not the greatest ever simply because he couldn't tone down the partying and his game suffered, and Ronaldinho wasn't even of this Messi 'super clean' era where teams stress more the physical side of the game and less so the flair side, and he didn't have the addiction to 'koko' that plagued Maradona.

I can't disagree with most things you said. The Messi thing is just a gut feeling. I may be wrong but many more people including a lot of Argentines have said the same thing. Maybe he would have adapted....who knows.

I disagree with you on defenders of nowadays. They have been thoroughly sisified. I don't know exactly how this happened but a lot of them are just midfielders who are at the back. Even Italy don't produce defenders like back in the day. The game has moved too far to attacking in my book. I'm a Chelsea fan and I don't even consider Cahill and Luiz - who are elite players nowadays - defenders.

[airwolex]

Congregation of Ancient men...

My broda you missed out big time. 1982 world cup was memorable for many reasons beyond Brazil vs Italy. You have to go back in time to get it.

Anybody wey no watch 1982 WC never watch WC be dat, IMHO.

See TALENT (not "artificial" players of nowadays o ).

Young Maradona, Ardiles, Passarella, Valdano, Kempes, Diaz, Zico, Eder, Socrates, Falcao, Zoff, Gentile, Rossi, Tardelli, Cabrini, Rummenige, Fischer, Schumacher, Platini, Tigana, Amoros, Giresse, Littbarski, Breitner, Tresor, Roger Milla, Nkono, Abega, Ebongue, Rabah Madjer, Belloumi, Fergani, Kouchi, etc.

My first full WC na 86 which na helele. If you didn't see Maradona in that WC you haven't experienced football.

82 I only really remember Brazil V Italy but I went back and watched most of the games in later years. Pure balling....that was when men were men.

Even the Soviet Union had some pure ballers.

[Damunk]

Congregation of Ancient men...

My broda you missed out big time. 1982 world cup was memorable for many reasons beyond Brazil vs Italy. You have to go back in time to get it.

Anybody wey no watch 1982 WC never watch WC be dat, IMHO.

See TALENT (not "artificial" players of nowadays o ).

Young Maradona, Ardiles, Passarella, Valdano, Kempes, Diaz, Zico, Eder, Socrates, Falcao, Zoff, Gentile, Rossi, Tardelli, Cabrini, Rummenige, Fischer, Schumacher, Platini, Tigana, Amoros, Giresse, Littbarski, Breitner, Tresor, Roger Milla, Nkono, Abega, Ebongue, Rabah Madjer, Belloumi, Fergani, Kouchi, etc.

My first full WC na 86 which na helele. If you didn't see Maradona in that WC you haven't experienced football.

82 I only really remember Brazil V Italy but I went back and watched most of the games in later years. Pure balling....that was when men were men.

Even the Soviet Union had some pure ballers.

My abiding memory of the '82 World Cup was the Tardelli goal celebration vs Germany. The sheer emotion of the celebration just got me in my humanity spot. Even my mum got caught up in the moment, and she wasn't even a football fan.

[/video]

Nothing ever quite like it since...even when Yekini scored vs Bulgaria or Oliseh v Spain.

I am not alone...

Youtube Comments
"Best celebration ever, pure emotion, pure poetry, pure epicness...this celebration is all the sport is about"
"One of the most iconic moments in world sport, ever!"
"This celebration of Tardelli is the essence of Football World Cup."
"I'd like to have moment like that in my life"

[airwolex]

Damunk,

Fantastic...and I'm glad that evil Schumacher who near killed Batiston didn't win the World cup. The guy never even received
a card. Football has come a long way from when you could just take out anybody worrying you on the field and get away with it. Anybody has Bright Omokaro's butchering of that poor Algerian player? I think he only got a yellow.

[/video]

[platinum]

t's hard to compare eras but I've seen nothing that suggests Messi wouldn't have handled that era as cooly as he has handled the present. Maradona took a major pounding and learned to cope, what exactly makes you think Messi wouldn't have done same?

In 62, Pele was kicked so badly and injured so egregiously without any punishment to the perpetrator he considered retiring from International football.

Like I said, Maradonna had to physically fight defenders in La Liga that wanted to end his career...he said it himself that he felt some people were out to maim him.

Messi was abused for his non performance in the Copa De America, he retired. He has been to 3 finals and has disappeared. We are all lucky he is playing in an era whereby fifa has reduced butchers disguised as defenders so we can see what a truly special player he is. I doubt if he could cope back then. The likes of Pele and Maradona were not only skillful but tough as nails. I just don't see Messi in the same light.

The Pele and Maradona stories are true and great but they don't have any bearing on the present and Messi. It's possible that they could have been all that and Messi could have been that too, we just will never know.

A few points on the Messi examples you've given....Messi retired because the Argentine FA was/is run by a bunch of crooked wretches and he was tired of giving all for that and getting used and abused by them (he wasn't the only one who quit, there were other senior players who quit or where going to before the FA started begging and sent Maradona to help them beg too). Add in the fact that Messi is undeniably not as loved as Maradona was. He left Argentina very young, he's almost as much a Catalan as Argentinean. Leaving all that muck behind had nothing to do with a weak heart or stomach for the fight, sometimes when you know what's going on behind the scenes and you have the senior boys with you, it's easy to walk...Messi doesn't have to deal with any AFA issues (personally I think he shouldn't have done it but I understand why he did, the AFA was properly bad). So on point #1, I disagree.

He disappeared in 3 finals? How? He made clear cut passes that Gonzalo Higuain failed to put away in all three finals. Maradona went to back to back world cup finals in 86 and 90, he didnt score in either one. He had one assist (that great pass to Burruchaga in 86), thankfully Burruchaga was a proper player unlike Higuain (half joking) so how do you credit Maradona here and debit Messi? On point #2, I again disagree.

FIFA advanced the game. Again, this is why I hate comparing eras. Players of today are fitter and arguably yes, stronger than the past players, it's a different sport. The access to knowledge of their bodies is simply on a plane those 'ancients' never had. I know the thing to do is talk about how great things were in the old days and how men were men, etc but the guys now are flat-out better equipped to be better and get more out of their bodies. They have technology that allows them do things older guys couldn't do. Back in the days of the 'hard men', players and coaches go siddon dey shack and smoke cigar for dressing room. It's a different world. I have no doubt the present Messi would have coped. None. The defenders of today try their best to push the envelope when it comes to hacking him down, they ride the line as much as possible. The kid may be small but he is not weak. Not physically, not mentally. You don't become by far the best of your generation by being those things. Not possible. Then again, if he existed back then, he likely wouldn't have had access to the technology that allowed him grow to be big enough to succeed now (he's still small but he was properly tiny without the medical help from Barca).

I don't want this to be a Messi v Maradona argument because both men bossed their eras but these comparisons invariably end up being just that. Both superb players who'd both thrive in either era. By the way, you don't see me saying Maradona would have failed in this era even though there could be an argument for that. Look at Ronaldinho who partied hard like Maradona did, he suffered some from it in a sense because while we all know he is a legend, he's not the greatest ever simply because he couldn't tone down the partying and his game suffered, and Ronaldinho wasn't even of this Messi 'super clean' era where teams stress more the physical side of the game and less so the flair side, and he didn't have the addiction to 'koko' that plagued Maradona.

I can't disagree with most things you said. The Messi thing is just a gut feeling. I may be wrong but many more people including a lot of Argentines have said the same thing. Maybe he would have adapted....who knows.

I disagree with you on defenders of nowadays. They have been thoroughly sisified. I don't know exactly how this happened but a lot of them are just midfielders who are at the back. Even Italy don't produce defenders like back in the day. The game has moved too far to attacking in my book. I'm a Chelsea fan and I don't even consider Cahill and Luiz - who are elite players nowadays - defenders.

Cahill and Luiz are not elite, never been. Not to me. The thorough modern defender is some one like Nesta or Cannavaro (who matched the best of the old days without having to be overly brutal). Tell me you didn't watch Barzagli, Bonucci and Chiellini and smile?

I get your sissification point though and to some extent I agree. When I see a player like Neymar dance and tease and insult defenders with no repercussion, it can be annoying. It doesn't even have to be as brutal as back in the 70s, i'd settle for the defenders of the 90s. Look at what they did to Ronaldo da Lima.

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

Damunk,

Fantastic...and I'm glad that evil Schumacher who near killed Batiston didn't win the World cup. The guy never even received
a card. Football has come a long way from when you could just take out anybody worrying you on the field and get away with it. Anybody has Bright Omokaro's butchering of that poor Algerian player? I think he only got a yellow.

[/video]

Yes o....by the finals, I was STRONGLY supporting Italy. Despite my bad belle that they defeated Brazil, I truly felt sorry for France after they lost to Germany, with that Schumacher's brutal attack on Batiston. Heck, as a kid then, I was a big admirer of teams that had black players....Tigana and Tresor for France. Ironically, Serginho was the Brazilian player I despised, along with the akpere that kept for them.

In 86 Argentina and Diego were fantastic! They were ugly in '90, but FANTASTIC in '86 (my opinion). Brazil came back with an improved goalie, but an aged Zico....

[Kabalega]

Damunk,

Fantastic...and I'm glad that evil Schumacher who near killed Batiston didn't win the World cup. The guy never even received
a card. Football has come a long way from when you could just take out anybody worrying you on the field and get away with it. Anybody has Bright Omokaro's butchering of that poor Algerian player? I think he only got a yellow.

[/video]

Schumacher's career nose dived afterwards from the back lash.

Wasted talent. I think he was better than all these other German goalies that came afterwards.
But he was labeled a black sheep.

82 also saw Diego Maradona get fouled incessantly, until he lost it and fouled back to get a red card.
He came back in 86 a more mature player and the rest is history.

Same thing happened to Pele in the 70s. He was fouled a lot, retaliated and got in trouble. He was a beast when he came back in 4 years.

[Kabalega]

t's hard to compare eras but I've seen nothing that suggests Messi wouldn't have handled that era as cooly as he has handled the present. Maradona took a major pounding and learned to cope, what exactly makes you think Messi wouldn't have done same?

In 62, Pele was kicked so badly and injured so egregiously without any punishment to the perpetrator he considered retiring from International football.

Like I said, Maradonna had to physically fight defenders in La Liga that wanted to end his career...he said it himself that he felt some people were out to maim him.

Messi was abused for his non performance in the Copa De America, he retired. He has been to 3 finals and has disappeared. We are all lucky he is playing in an era whereby fifa has reduced butchers disguised as defenders so we can see what a truly special player he is. I doubt if he could cope back then. The likes of Pele and Maradona were not only skillful but tough as nails. I just don't see Messi in the same light.

You should watch the movie "Messi."

In it you will see raw footage of a tiny Messi bossing bigger boys. He got hit then and even worse in 2009 against Chelsea. Mourinho gave the orders that Messi was to get special attention from any and all limbs.

Messi can take the hits because he has been taking them since childhood.

[Cellular]

Enters thread...

Sees it is a convention of old uncles who watched football on the radio...

Wants to quietly exit thread... But have to say somn.
<How anyone could watch grainy footages of dots running around greyish looking field and call it the good old days is beyond me>



Today's athletes are better, faster, stronger, and actually studied the game. There's more competition today than yesteryears. And no, it is not the equipment. In all sports, this holds true so I don't understand why football will be different.

BTW, we stopped recruiting martial arts experts as footballers... or local bouncers to play backman.

[airwolex]

t's hard to compare eras but I've seen nothing that suggests Messi wouldn't have handled that era as cooly as he has handled the present. Maradona took a major pounding and learned to cope, what exactly makes you think Messi wouldn't have done same?

In 62, Pele was kicked so badly and injured so egregiously without any punishment to the perpetrator he considered retiring from International football.

Like I said, Maradonna had to physically fight defenders in La Liga that wanted to end his career...he said it himself that he felt some people were out to maim him.

Messi was abused for his non performance in the Copa De America, he retired. He has been to 3 finals and has disappeared. We are all lucky he is playing in an era whereby fifa has reduced butchers disguised as defenders so we can see what a truly special player he is. I doubt if he could cope back then. The likes of Pele and Maradona were not only skillful but tough as nails. I just don't see Messi in the same light.

You should watch the movie "Messi."

In it you will see raw footage of a tiny Messi bossing bigger boys. He got hit then and even worse in 2009 against Chelsea. Mourinho gave the orders that Messi was to get special attention from any and all limbs.

Messi can take the hits because he has been taking them since childhood.

You could be right maybe it's just his demeanor. I think Robben is the same. I often wonder if they'd be as good if the rules weren't changed but I guess we'd never know.

As for todays players being better....they are definitely stronger and faster but I think they are less skillful.

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

Enters thread...

Sees it is a convention of old uncles who watched football on the radio...

Wants to quietly exit thread... But have to say somn.
<How anyone could watch grainy footages of dots running around greyish looking field and call it the good old days is beyond me>



Today's athletes are better, faster, stronger, and actually studied the game. There's more competition today than yesteryears. And no, it is not the equipment. In all sports, this holds true so I don't understand why football will be different.

BTW, we stopped recruiting martial arts experts as footballers... or local bouncers to play backman.

From these threads, we know the people who were 'efico' as kids. Went from school to doing homework to church. Book-only guys who thought athletes were wasting time I can imagine a young Cellular, parting for head, books packed neatly, mathematical set not missing a single item, cortina shoes well-polished, complete with white socks.