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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
john12 wrote:
1994 team lost virtually to all teams except Georgia prior to 1994 World Cup and also lost 2 games at the World Cup itself but people really think no one in this present eagles would make that a team. Haha bunch of jokers

The 1996 Olympic Gold Medal team LOST its only pre-tournament friendly 1-3 at home to Togo...
Meanwhile, the 2002 WC team (tied for worst Nigerian WC showing) went UNDEFEATED in friendlies.


That wasn't the only friendly match played. Other matches also played in U.S.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:27 pm 
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folem wrote:
Gotti wrote:
folem wrote:
11 Jun 1995 USA v Nigeria L 3-2 US Cup

This match was definitely NOT prosecuted by the 1994 WC squad...

Nigeria: Peter Rufai, Benedict Iroha, Bawa Abdullahi, Chidi Nwanu, Godwin Okpara, Austin Okocha, John Zaki (Chukwu Ndukwe 55'), Ajibade Babalade (Uchenna Okafor 66'),Edema Fuludu (Taiwo Enegwa 55'), Samson Siasia, Taiwo Wasui

7 played for SE in 1994 CAN or WC.

6 players (Fuludu was NOT at the 1994 ANC or WC) out of a squad of 22... :oops:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:31 pm 
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folem wrote:
Gotti wrote:
john12 wrote:
1994 team lost virtually to all teams except Georgia prior to 1994 World Cup and also lost 2 games at the World Cup itself but people really think no one in this present eagles would make that a team. Haha bunch of jokers

The 1996 Olympic Gold Medal team LOST its only pre-tournament friendly 1-3 at home to Togo...
Meanwhile, the 2002 WC team (tied for worst Nigerian WC showing) went UNDEFEATED in friendlies.

That wasn't the only friendly match played. Other matches also played in U.S.

The team played 2 SCRIMMAGES in Florida, neither of which was classified as an official game...
But how does that alters the substantive point that pre-tourney friendlies are not dispositive of quality?!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:44 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
folem wrote:
Gotti wrote:
folem wrote:
11 Jun 1995 USA v Nigeria L 3-2 US Cup

This match was definitely NOT prosecuted by the 1994 WC squad...

Nigeria: Peter Rufai, Benedict Iroha, Bawa Abdullahi, Chidi Nwanu, Godwin Okpara, Austin Okocha, John Zaki (Chukwu Ndukwe 55'), Ajibade Babalade (Uchenna Okafor 66'),Edema Fuludu (Taiwo Enegwa 55'), Samson Siasia, Taiwo Wasui

7 played for SE in 1994 CAN or WC.

6 players (Fuludu was NOT at the 1994 ANC or WC) out of a squad of 22... :oops:
:bump:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Afri ... ds#Nigeria

Nigeria
Coach: Netherlands Clemens Westerhof

No. Pos. Player Date of birth (age) Caps Club
22 GK Wilfred Agbonavbare 5 October 1965 (aged 28) Spain Rayo Vallecano
16 GK Alloysius Agu 12 July 1967 (aged 26) Belgium RFC Liège
1 GK Peter Rufai 24 August 1963 (aged 30) Netherlands GA Eagles
2 DF Augustine Eguavoen 19 August 1965 (aged 28) Belgium Kortrijk
3 DF Benedict Iroha 29 November 1969 (aged 24) Netherlands Vitesse Arnhem
4 DF Stephen Keshi 23 January 1962 (aged 32) Unattached
5 DF Uche Okechukwu 4 November 1967 (aged 26) Turkey Fenerbahçe
12 DF Isaac Semitoje 2 October 1967 (aged 26) Nigeria Iwuanyanwu Nationale
19 DF Nduka Ugbade 6 September 1969 (aged 24) Unattached
6 DF Uche Okafor 8 August 1967 (aged 26) Germany Hannover 96
21 MF Mutiu Adepoju 22 December 1970 (aged 23) Spain Racing Santander
20 MF Fuludu Edema 8 May 1970 (aged 23) Nigeria BCC Lions
18 FW Efan Ekoku 8 June 1967 (aged 26) England Norwich City
7 MF Finidi George 15 April 1971 (aged 22) Netherlands Ajax Amsterdam
10 MF Jay-Jay Okocha 14 August 1973 (aged 20) Germany Frankfurt
8 MF Thompson Oliha 4 October 1968 (aged 25) Unattached
15 MF Sunday Oliseh 14 September 1974 (aged 19) Belgium RFC Liège
14 FW Daniel Amokachi 30 December 1972 (aged 21) Belgium Club Brugge
11 MF Emmanuel Amuneke 25 December 1970 (aged 23) Egypt Zamalek
17 FW Victor Ikpeba 12 June 1973 (aged 20) France AS Monaco
13 FW Samson Siasia 14 August 1967 (aged 26) France Nantes
9 FW Rashidi Yekini 23 October 1963 (aged 30) Portugal Vitoria Setubal

How many played in Atlanta 1996? I will try to find US Cup 1995 Squad list or Oloye/Enugu II/megapro and other CEs can help out. The posted match day team list above was about 14. :mrgreen: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:17 pm 
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folem wrote:
Gotti wrote:
folem wrote:
Gotti wrote:
folem wrote:
11 Jun 1995 USA v Nigeria L 3-2 US Cup

This match was definitely NOT prosecuted by the 1994 WC squad...

Nigeria: Peter Rufai, Benedict Iroha, Bawa Abdullahi, Chidi Nwanu, Godwin Okpara, Austin Okocha, John Zaki (Chukwu Ndukwe 55'), Ajibade Babalade (Uchenna Okafor 66'),Edema Fuludu (Taiwo Enegwa 55'), Samson Siasia, Taiwo Wasui

7 played for SE in 1994 CAN or WC.

6 players (Fuludu was NOT at the 1994 ANC or WC) out of a squad of 22... :oops:
:bump:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Afri ... ds#Nigeria

Nigeria
Coach: Netherlands Clemens Westerhof

No. Pos. Player Date of birth (age) Caps Club
22 GK Wilfred Agbonavbare 5 October 1965 (aged 28) Spain Rayo Vallecano
16 GK Alloysius Agu 12 July 1967 (aged 26) Belgium RFC Liège
1 GK Peter Rufai 24 August 1963 (aged 30) Netherlands GA Eagles
2 DF Augustine Eguavoen 19 August 1965 (aged 28) Belgium Kortrijk
3 DF Benedict Iroha 29 November 1969 (aged 24) Netherlands Vitesse Arnhem
4 DF Stephen Keshi 23 January 1962 (aged 32) Unattached
5 DF Uche Okechukwu 4 November 1967 (aged 26) Turkey Fenerbahçe
12 DF Isaac Semitoje 2 October 1967 (aged 26) Nigeria Iwuanyanwu Nationale
19 DF Nduka Ugbade 6 September 1969 (aged 24) Unattached
6 DF Uche Okafor 8 August 1967 (aged 26) Germany Hannover 96
21 MF Mutiu Adepoju 22 December 1970 (aged 23) Spain Racing Santander
20 MF Fuludu Edema 8 May 1970 (aged 23) Nigeria BCC Lions
18 FW Efan Ekoku 8 June 1967 (aged 26) England Norwich City
7 MF Finidi George 15 April 1971 (aged 22) Netherlands Ajax Amsterdam
10 MF Jay-Jay Okocha 14 August 1973 (aged 20) Germany Frankfurt
8 MF Thompson Oliha 4 October 1968 (aged 25) Unattached
15 MF Sunday Oliseh 14 September 1974 (aged 19) Belgium RFC Liège
14 FW Daniel Amokachi 30 December 1972 (aged 21) Belgium Club Brugge
11 MF Emmanuel Amuneke 25 December 1970 (aged 23) Egypt Zamalek
17 FW Victor Ikpeba 12 June 1973 (aged 20) France AS Monaco
13 FW Samson Siasia 14 August 1967 (aged 26) France Nantes
9 FW Rashidi Yekini 23 October 1963 (aged 30) Portugal Vitoria Setubal

I will try to find US Cup 1995 Squad list or Oloye/Enugu II/megapro and other CEs can help out. The match day team above list was about 14. :mrgreen: :lol:

My bad on Fuludu, but he was still NOT part of the WC 1994 squad (which was my initial point)...

Nonetheless, I watched all 3 of the US Cup 1995 games (vs US, Colombia and Mexico) and these 6 were the only 1994 carryovers (and I think that Okocha left after the US game). The rest of the squad, which was hurriedly cobbled together under Amodu's supervision after Carlos Alberto Torres (RIP) abandoned his SE coaching appointment (albeit he was with the team in the US), included the likes of Ike Shorumnu (then at 3SC), Wasiu Taiwo, Jonathan Akpoborie (his first SE caps), Godwin Okpara (also a debutant), Ajibade Babade, Bawa Abdullahi, Chukwu Ndukwe (then at Jasper Utd, Onitsha), John Zaki, Taiwo Enegwa, Barnabas Imenger, etc. It is sheer HERESY to cast that squad as 1994 WC squad.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:20 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
My bad on Fuludu, but he was still NOT part of the WC 1994 squad (which was my initial point)...

Nonetheless, I watched all 3 of the US Cup 1995 games (vs US, Colombia and Mexico) and these 6 were the only 1994 carryovers (and I think that Okocha left after the US game). The rest of the squad, which was hurriedly cobbled together under Amodu's supervision after Carlos Alberto Torres (RIP) abandoned his SE coaching appointment (albeit he was with the team in the US), included the likes of Ike Shorumnu (then at 3SC), Wasiu Taiwo, Jonathan Akpoborie (his first SE caps), Godwin Okpara (also a debutant), Ajibade Babade, Bawa Abdullahi, Chukwu Ndukwe (then at Jasper Utd, Onitsha), John Zaki, Taiwo Enegwa, Barnabas Imenger, etc. It is sheer HERESY to cast that squad as 1994 WC squad.

I never wrote that Fuludu was in WC squad. Ike Shoroumu was just about in the squad for both CAN & WC. Only 6 players in the squad played @ the Olympics in Atlanta but I doubt if it is HERESY to cast that squad as the 1994 squad. The making of the 1994 squad took a while and players like West, Kanu, etc had their debuts in 1994.









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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:04 pm 
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folem wrote:
I never wrote that Fuludu was in WC squad. Ike Shoroumu was just about in the squad for both CAN & WC. Only 6 players in the squad played @ the Olympics in Atlanta but I doubt if it is HERESY to cast that squad as the 1994 squad. The making of the 1994 squad took a while and players like West, Kanu, etc had their debuts in 1994.

I said the US Cup squad was not the 1994 WC squad...
And you cited Edema Fuludu as one of the 7 players on both squads.

Nonetheless, the rest is classic Strawman's Argument, because the 1996 Olympic Games squad (which even a year later than the foresworn 1995 US Cup squad) is IRRELEVANT to the subject matter under discourse - which is how many members of the present squad is likely to make the 1994 WC squad (which of course is admittedly conjectural by definition). To try to conflate 1994 squad with subsequent 1995 and 1996 squads would be akin to conflating the present SE squad with the 2014 WC squad because of several players on BOTH squads.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:13 pm 
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PS: Please can you also post the videos of the 2002 WC squad that went unbeaten in pre-WC friendlies (particularly that infamous bicycle-kick heard around the world) to remind us of their "top" quality... :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:21 pm 
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Considering the current SE are closer to their real ages, the comparison is unfair.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:29 am 
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Akamoke, my apologies. You were correct on Rufai.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:51 am 
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Gotti wrote:
folem wrote:
I never wrote that Fuludu was in WC squad. Ike Shoroumu was just about in the squad for both CAN & WC. Only 6 players in the squad played @ the Olympics in Atlanta but I doubt if it is HERESY to cast that squad as the 1994 squad. The making of the 1994 squad took a while and players like West, Kanu, etc had their debuts in 1994.

I said the US Cup squad was not the 1994 WC squad...
And you cited Edema Fuludu as one of the 7 players on both squads.

Nonetheless, the rest is classic Strawman's Argument, because the 1996 Olympic Games squad (which even a year later than the foresworn 1995 US Cup squad) is IRRELEVANT to the subject matter under discourse - which is how many members of the present squad is likely to make the 1994 WC squad (which of course is admittedly conjectural by definition). To try to conflate 1994 squad with subsequent 1995 and 1996 squads would be akin to conflating the present SE squad with the 2014 WC squad because of several players on BOTH squads.


:?:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:52 am 
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cchinukw wrote:
Considering the current SE are closer to their real ages, the comparison is unfair.

What does age matter? It’s the SENIOR national team...
In fact, to perform as the 1994 did at supposedly “fake” ages is indicative of top quality! :D

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:06 am 
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Doesn't matter if they wouldn't make the squad.

I would be much happier with this team if they ended up making the 1/4s or Semis, than a better 94 team that got stuck in the 2nd Round.

Don't get me wrong, there are not many people on this forum that like the entertainment side of football more than me, but at some point we have to admit...results results results.

And the 94 team, relative to how good they are, they did not really achieve much.

So lets just focus on the main thing right now, hoping that the 2018 team can get the results, because that matters more at the end of the day.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:28 am 
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Tbite wrote:
Doesn't matter if they wouldn't make the squad.

I would be much happier with this team if they ended up making the 1/4s or Semis, than a better 94 team that got stuck in the 2nd Round.

Don't get me wrong, there are not many people on this forum that like the entertainment side of football more than me, but at some point we have to admit...results results results.

And the 94 team, relative to how good they are, they did not really achieve much.

So lets just focus on the main thing right now, hoping that the 2018 team can get the results, because that matters more at the end of the day.

Frankly, it’s quite IRRELEVANT what would make you happier..

Hopefully, all Nigerians (even those who proclaim at every turn how they are not really ‘culturally’ Nigerians) want the present team to achieve the best ever WC results for Nigeria (heck, we would love them to win the entire damn thing), but that is hardly the topic under discourse here. Quite sure there are several other threads were the performance of the team is a central topic of discourse (and you may want to migrate to such threads if this one is of no interest to you), but here we are discussing INDIVIDUAL players and speculating on their relative INDIVIDUAL capabilities, and we would like to continue to do so without suffering the misfortune of sanctimonious lectures. Thanks in advance.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:16 am 
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1994 team is overrated. They lost almost all games prior to 1994 World Cup and also lost 2 games at the World Cup. If you honestly think nothing less than 6 players wouldn’t make that team then you’re a novice


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
Tbite wrote:
Doesn't matter if they wouldn't make the squad.

I would be much happier with this team if they ended up making the 1/4s or Semis, than a better 94 team that got stuck in the 2nd Round.

Don't get me wrong, there are not many people on this forum that like the entertainment side of football more than me, but at some point we have to admit...results results results.

And the 94 team, relative to how good they are, they did not really achieve much.

So lets just focus on the main thing right now, hoping that the 2018 team can get the results, because that matters more at the end of the day.

Frankly, it’s quite IRRELEVANT what would make you happier..

Hopefully, all Nigerians (even those who proclaim at every turn how they are not really ‘culturally’ Nigerians) want the present team to achieve the best ever WC results for Nigeria (heck, we would love them to win the entire damn thing), but that is hardly the topic under discourse here. Quite sure there are several other threads were the performance of the team is a central topic of discourse (and you may want to migrate to such threads if this one is of no interest to you), but here we are discussing INDIVIDUAL players and speculating on their relative INDIVIDUAL capabilities, and we would like to continue to do so without suffering the misfortune of sanctimonious lectures. Thanks in advance.



Classic CE going off and ranting over a tangent that was never posed in the OP. Just start any thread on Pep and the EPL, and see them take off at the races on some other unrelated angle. :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:26 pm 
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john12 wrote:
1994 team is overrated. They lost almost all games prior to 1994 World Cup and also lost 2 games at the World Cup. If you honestly think nothing less than 6 players wouldn’t make that team then you’re a novice



OK. You don talk am, so it must be so. You want a cookie now?

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We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:31 pm 
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metalalloy wrote:
john12 wrote:
1994 team is overrated. They lost almost all games prior to 1994 World Cup and also lost 2 games at the World Cup. If you honestly think nothing less than 6 players wouldn’t make that team then you’re a novice



OK. You don talk am, so it must be so. You want a cookie now?



I'll contribute a whole box of Cabin Biscuits.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:36 pm 
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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
john12 wrote:
1994 team is overrated. They lost almost all games prior to 1994 World Cup and also lost 2 games at the World Cup. If you honestly think nothing less than 6 players wouldn’t make that team then you’re a novice



OK. You don talk am, so it must be so. You want a cookie now?



I'll contribute a whole box of Cabin Biscuits.


:rotf: :rotf: guy, Cabin Biscuit is probably "too old and overrated" like the1994 set. you need to come up with something else.

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We have been brainwashed by the Premier League that it's the best in the world. Nonsense. It's the best brand
Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:13 pm 
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Gotti wrote:
Tbite wrote:
Doesn't matter if they wouldn't make the squad.

I would be much happier with this team if they ended up making the 1/4s or Semis, than a better 94 team that got stuck in the 2nd Round.

Don't get me wrong, there are not many people on this forum that like the entertainment side of football more than me, but at some point we have to admit...results results results.

And the 94 team, relative to how good they are, they did not really achieve much.

So lets just focus on the main thing right now, hoping that the 2018 team can get the results, because that matters more at the end of the day.

Frankly, it’s quite IRRELEVANT what would make you happier..

Hopefully, all Nigerians (even those who proclaim at every turn how they are not really ‘culturally’ Nigerians) want the present team to achieve the best ever WC results for Nigeria (heck, we would love them to win the entire damn thing), but that is hardly the topic under discourse here. Quite sure there are several other threads were the performance of the team is a central topic of discourse (and you may want to migrate to such threads if this one is of no interest to you), but here we are discussing INDIVIDUAL players and speculating on their relative INDIVIDUAL capabilities, and we would like to continue to do so without suffering the misfortune of sanctimonious lectures. Thanks in advance.


Frankly this response is irrelevant. It was related to the topic and had to be stated. Obviously it is related, as others have also made similar remarks. It may even be the most important response in this entire thread.

Because it is the philosophical question about 'What is ability really'. For example when some say that Messi is the greatest. For me I have seen him play time and time again and he does not exude the greatest ever, but he does exude the most consistent perhaps.

Performance funnily enough and perhaps something that goes against my purist background is a significant aspect of what we can consider to be ability. We all know the drill, inherent talent, innate ability, raw talent. Every Etim Esin that was apparently better than Okocha, every Garincha that could have been more, even the greats like Ronaldinho, or others like Andriano.

I don't really think we understand frankness. To be really frank, one might suggest that a significant aspect of ability is to display said ability. Afterall ability is not just one dimensional, the ability to be consistent, focused and disciplined is obviously an ability in and of itself. One must then wonder if the ability of the 1994 Eagles in the context of a team setting is somewhat overstated. We know for example that Mikel Obi is one of the most consistent African footballers ever, this thing about consistency...it is an unspoken talent.

I do not wholeheartedly believe in this logic, but I do believe it is partly true.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:57 pm 
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It's doesn't paint a clear picture to say the 94 set didn't win much. Westerhof fielded a B or C team in most of the friendlies we played before the 94 world cup, with the exception of the game against Georgia. In addition, like others mentioned, most of our regulars did not play in the US Gold Cup in 95.

Also, the 94-98 set would probably have won the 96 and 98 ANC if Nigeria featured in both tournaments. Remember Abacha pulled us out of the 96 ANC, while a CAF suspension prevented us from taking part in the 98 ANC. From 94-99, the Super Eagles were widely regarded as the best team in Africa, and we had more players in top European teams than any other country in Africa.

Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
john12 wrote:
1994 team is overrated. They lost almost all games prior to 1994 World Cup and also lost 2 games at the World Cup. If you honestly think nothing less than 6 players wouldn’t make that team then you’re a novice



OK. You don talk am, so it must be so. You want a cookie now?



I'll contribute a whole box of Cabin Biscuits.


Last edited by olu on Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:47 pm 
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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
john12 wrote:
1994 team is overrated. They lost almost all games prior to 1994 World Cup and also lost 2 games at the World Cup. If you honestly think nothing less than 6 players wouldn’t make that team then you’re a novice

OK. You don talk am, so it must be so. You want a cookie now?

I'll contribute a whole box of Cabin Biscuits.

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:59 pm 
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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
john12 wrote:
1994 team is overrated. They lost almost all games prior to 1994 World Cup and also lost 2 games at the World Cup. If you honestly think nothing less than 6 players wouldn’t make that team then you’re a novice



OK. You don talk am, so it must be so. You want a cookie now?



I'll contribute a whole box of Cabin Biscuits.


Would Gala be considered a cookie?

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